Para

Hi Alan,

I have sent you a PM.

All the best.

Gladiator

Replied my friend.

I have exchanged several PM’s with @Bpraim1 and now better understand his stance. He has personally witnessed the worst side of what a Monk should be and without putting words into his mouth feels reverting back to the absolute definition of Buddhism will remove the abuse of power he have all heard about.

Recently an Abbot was not just caught having sex with a lady BUT warned about it many times before by the locals. Senior Monks abusing the money that has been donated to the running of a temple but wrongly used for personal gain and of course Monks being caught taking drugs. For a lay person even though these events are rare given the stature a Monk hold within the Thai community they have a massive impact.

Getting back on topic @ajw1982 lives in the UK and sure there are a few Thai Buddhist Temples there but only a handful and spread across the country. If he didn’t have access to the information available would he still be following a road that we living in Thailand can so easily follow?

Its pure evolution and such an easy way for pretty much anyone to at least dip their toe into the Dhamma pond before deciding if the water is warm and inviting.

If that is true - 'could be out in less than 6 years' - then that would swing my mind towards a much more violent punishment....

Do the maths.......

Pleading guilty saves court time so the initial sentence is automatically halved. Remember there is no parole system here as such. Every 5th December (Kings Birthday) sentence cuts are given.

A 'Class 1' inmate basically the model prisoner will receive a cut in original sentence of 1/5 every year. You start as a Class 3 then every 6 months are graded to determine if you go up or down a class. So Class 1 gets 1/5 cut, Class 2 gets 1/6 cut, Class 3 gets 1/7 cut, etc......

The crazy bit is because the cuts are percentage derived someone getting sat a 12 stretch serves the same amount of actual time as someone on a 25. Amazing Thailand after all.....

Thanks Brother. I probably shouldn't be speculating on what Buddha would have done. You are right, the Dhamma could have been spread even more widely than it has been.

Many of my old friends on social networks are surprised at my becoming a monk, and I in turn am surprised by some of them expressing an interest in Buddhism and wanting to know more about it. I guess some westerners have had media or travel exposure to Buddhism but have no practical knowledge of it. Explaining a bit about Kamma seemed to be the most popular topic. So technology has been good in that way.

As for the tv, its gone to a better home. It was all in Thai anyway so mai khao jai. Flame on, yoms. I don't mind.

I cant say I am right but I think anyone trying to make this world a better place would use every means possible. I was a financial IT consultant in London for many years and through strict corporate policies now automatically stay away from the social stuff with the exception of Twitter so I can get the latest Thai news from TV. Facebook? For me personally no way as the justification I would have to give the people who knew me before would be crazy and I don't feel I have to justify myself to anyone other then myself. I have a very small but close circle of friends in London even though I haven't been back there for 10 years and they all followed my slow progression to becoming a Monk which started over 6 years ago. I do find now I am asked for my advice/opinion a lot more and having the seclusion of a quite temple I have time to think a lot more without the interruption of 'normal' life and it seems to help my friends.

See? That last post was directed towards Para for his kind reply, but I fluffed it and it came out as a general post. I've got a lot to learn about technology. When did I become one of those old blokes who doesn't undersrand this new-fangled contraption?

LOL!

Don't worry my fellow Phra by joining in on TV. As for technology I am by no means young but have worked in computing for over 20 years so I guess I have a slight advantage there.

Hello Brother. My first ever post on any forum. This one seems appropriate. I find technology is one of the few frustrations I have now I am in robes. It is a vital resource for learning as my 'teacher' seems to believe that telling me nothing is the way. But tech itself rarely lives up to the hype. So I need it, but it can also be a hindrance.

I work towards not needing it as I have abandoned so many other things. Really I would say that it (owning tech) depends on the individual monk. If one is detached from it then all is good, but if one relies on it then it opens the way to a multitude of distractions.

My teacher gave me cable tv which I found a bit odd. Another monk arrived and he's only here til pansa so I gave it to him. I was given a desktop computer which really helps with study but I want to reach a certain point then give it to my teacher. I also have a smartphone which does everything I need and is less distracting than the computer, but I still play the odd game.

Personally I am not sure the Lord Buddha would have approved of any of this. We can indeed communicate Dhamma, but we have no idea if the recipient is paying attention. They could be on the toilet saying 'yes bhante'. I have seen quite a few monks talking to or texting their waiting girlfriends and whenever I get a call they believe the same of me, which I find sad.

Maybe I should treat access to tech like eating. Once a day before midday.

Sorry for waffling. Solitude has made me verbose.

Welcome indeed fellow Phra!

I am glad you have ‘come out’ and do hope you stick around sharing ideas and knowledge. The band of foreign Monks here on TV is small but we are happy.

My Ajahn gave me a CD of his lectures in English then said ‘when you listen to them all you will understand’ that’s been my teaching (from my Ajahn at least) so far. The .Net and follow Monks on TV have helped me many times so for me it’s been invaluable in my development.

Get ready to get flamed by lap people for admitting you were given Cable TV as Hookedondharma says we are ‘expected’ to live in caves with only a candle!

As with everything it’s about intention n. A good resource can be used with bad intention does that make the resource bad or the person using it?

It’s now 2012 or should I say 2555 times have changed and the Internet has opened up so many resources IMO unless you have supreme understanding shouldn’t we be allowed to find the information that isn’t given to us?

The computer I have is my own (Oh dear attachment has raised its ugly head!) but I intend to leave it at the temple when I leave as a thank you gift for everything I have been taught.

IMO if TV and Internet was around when Lord Buddha was alive I am sure he would of loved it as he would have been able to teach so many more people then he was physically able to. Imagine having access to the estimated 1.6 BILLION Internet users out there that’s sure is a large audience.

It’s here to stay and as long as the teacher’s intention so what if the student needs to use the toilet. Now if it was the teacher on the toilet giving Dhamma talks I think we would have a problem!

Don't see much waffling in your post its all good.

Again welcome and we look forward to talking to you more.

Phra Para

Para, where do you go?

I'm in Rayong too, I go to Wat Map Jahn.

Graham

Graham I am ordained my temple is near Ban Khai.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat off line.

Para

Para, I do believe (based off my experience), that you will encounter this much throughout your monastic career. You'll hear it from the English speakers, and when you learn Thai, you'll more than likely hear it from the Thai speakers as well, just not as straightforward.

It's just best to ignore - after many attempted efforts to try and provide another way of looking at things. Sometimes, when people want to know something and have no way of knowing it, that curiosity turns to speculation, which then turns into all sorts of things.

Know that you don't have to explain anything to anyone, with the exception of your preceptor. Any more attempts to try and rectify the 'see one corrupted person = all people corrupted' will more than likely fall on deaf ears.

Thank you as always for the advice my fellow Phra.

To be honest I had some time on my hands and I personally don't think the problem the poster has with anything he posted is the real reason for his anger. I hoped that by showing how virtually every comment made was inaccurate he may then seek the real cause of his problems.

I hope you are well.

Alan my Temple is in Rayong feel free to PM me if ever you want to chat or maybe coem visit.

Para

So were does a monk get his money to buy all of these fancy items.???????????

Pretty good business these days.

I just got to witness a preset amount of money It would cost for a couple local monks to show up to bless a new house.

This is the price for us to leave the temple.. Good Monks

WOW!!!

Every religion has bad apples, But I'm feeling Catholic doesn't look at bad anymore.

I think western greed/thinking is slowly working it's way in.

Monks choose to cast away material items, and you are trying to change this.

By the way, the Ipad was a tongue cheek, from the other topic you have going.

How you want to bring internet into the jungle meditation temple. Is nowhere safe from Technology anymore.

Can things not be just left pure??

Why could he not just be taken to the nearest internet point to give a teaching? Why could he not just continue to teach the way he has before you showed up?

They can go to town to buy smokes, a new phone and laptop.

They can get to the nearest WiFi point to connect the masses.

If he is a good monk he will not care. He will not want all the humble jumble.

And you know what, I will respect him, and that is the monk that I will make my merit too.

Because I will know my money I give him will help others, not himself.

Leave your Ideas of how to change things to yourself.

Dhamma will flow, just as it has for hundreds of years.

Wow a fair flood of questions most off topic but hey let’s have a crack at answering them for you.

‘So were does a monk get his money to buy all of these fancy items’

For me everything I have I had before I ordained the only thing I have ever bought was refill ink so I can correspond with pen-pal’s in prison. How many Farrang Monks have you seen in an IT mall and no that’s not a Freudian joke either!

‘I just got to witness a preset amount of money It would cost for a couple local monks to show up to bless a new house.’

I have a tense confusion here. Did you witness Monks being given money or hear of Monks telling the householder how much money was expected BEFORE agreeing to bless the house? I have been on many blessings outside of my temple and have on each occasion been given an envelope with between 50 and 200BT in along with a flower, candle and 3 incense sticks. I never knew there was a ‘going rate’ for home visits can I ask what it is I would love to upgrade my TV to a 3D one…. ;-)

‘But I'm feeling Catholic doesn't look at bad anymore’

So you are currently Buddhist but feel the power/abuse that current day Monks demand/expect has tainted Buddhism so much you are looking to become a Catholic? If that makes your life better than I suggest you at least try it. If you don’t like it you will always be welcomed beck without question to Buddhism. Remember Lord Buddha taught us ‘there are many Gods follow the one that makes you happy’

‘I think western greed/thinking is slowly working its way in. ‘

What the way it alas has been with Western religions?

‘Monks choose to cast away material items, and you are trying to change this.’

Not actually true. We accept non attachment but what about my chanting books and other Buddhist teaching books I have is I am expected to abandon them as well? That said I do agree there is a line to what is appropriate so I guess I should sell the Benz.

‘By the way, the Ipad was a tongue cheek, from the other topic you have going.’

Sorry could see the intended pun through the cloud of red mist your post threw up on my screen.

‘How you want to bring internet into the jungle meditation temple. Is nowhere safe from Technology anymore.’

Incorrect. Please if you are going to make reference to what I say then ensure you at least understand my words. I want to allow my teacher to offer his Dhamma and Meditation lessons from within our temple. Would it be OK if it was say an urban Bangkok temple?

You can 3G from Mount Everest now and there are non-profit companies that are giving solar powered units to remote African villages that dint even have electricity so I guess nowhere is safe.

‘Can things not be just left pure??’

Good question and one with many possible answers. The question is why do you consider allowing Dhamma teachings to people that are unable to attend a temple as impure that is after all what I am trying to do here.

‘Why could he not just be taken to the nearest internet point to give a teaching?’

Guess I could try and find an Internet Café that will allow my teacher and his local students to take over for a couple of hours. Please remember he doesn’t just teach via the internet it’s simple an additional form of media he uses. He also has a web site, should that be removed as well?

‘Why could he not just continue to teach the way he has before you showed up?’

He was using Skype before I came here which because of its limitations requires 1 computer per person wanting to join in. What I am doing is implementing better technology so now he is able to teach 10 internet students from a single computer. The next step will be to increase that limit but its hard finding free video conference options.

‘They can go to town to buy smokes, a new phone and laptop.’

They? Who are they?

‘They can get to the nearest WiFi point to connect the masses. ‘

Again I am unsure of who ‘they’ are, what they are going to connect and as for the masses well you are saying Dhamma teachings over the internet is bad so who will be there when ‘they’ connect whatever 'they' have?

‘If he is a good monk he will not care. He will not want all the humble jumble’

He is an excellent Abbot and like ALL Monks our only care is in spreading the Dhamma to those who choose the Buddhist bath. I am sure he has no need for humble jumble all he wants is an Internet connection to his new Meditation center.

‘And you know what, I will respect him, and that is the monk that I will make my merit too ‘Because I will know my money I give him will help others, not himself’’

Sorry but I seriously have to ask did you read what you have written here because it’s a total contradiction to what you have said in your whole post. You will happily give him money but are angered by Monks being given money to leave the temple for a blessing? I am trying to implement a ‘way’ for him to be able to expand the number of people he can teach.

‘Leave your Ideas of how to change things to yourself’

Wow such a nonsensical statement. I am simply trying to do what my Abbot has asked me.

‘Dhamma will flow, just as it has for hundreds of years’

Dhamma has been ‘flowing’ for thousands of years not hundreds and has embraced technological advancements as they have come along. Horse and cart, combustion engine for cars, trains, airplanes, books, there is even a Dhamma Channel on one of the Thai cable suppliers but the internet that a big no-no?

Bpraim1 my comments are not even slightly aimed at you personally because I don’t know you but they are most defiantly directed to your questions. You seem to be troubled right now and are looking for something to blame regardless of the source of your troubles.

Take a step away from Buddhism and give another religion a try but I have a feeling you will be back just as soon as you resolve the true source of your angry. When you try the other religions and finally see that Buddhism is the one for you we will all still be here and I will be happy to see you again.

With metta Bpraim1

Para

Para, I think you are fairly right on with your statements. There seems to be an abudance of posters on this forum who think all monks should be living in a hut out in the forest with only a bowl, a robe and a candle. I know a lot of monks abuse the privelage of the internet and smart phones, but not all. I am like you, in that I have learned a lot about my chosen field over the internet, of things I could never have learned otherwise. Yes I have a cell phone, a very simple cheap cell phone with about the only one who ever calls me is the abbot to come to his kuti instead of him walking about a hundred and fifty yards to my kuti to get me. Yes I have a notebook. I communicate with my family in the US from it and mostly search for different Buddhist materials to use in my study. Since I can't read Thai, this google search helps a bunch. I wish you much success in your endeavors, don't give up just because a few posters don't understand what it is your trying to accomplish.

Phra khaowong1 your views are IDENTICAL to mine and I would guess many other foreign Buddhist Monks living not just in Thailand but around the world. Of course the Internet is so easily open to abuse but with correct intention that line is never crossed. My temple is very small with only 3 other Monks only 1 of which can speak a little English and my Thai isn’t as good as I know it should be so I am constantly searching for information to better understand the life I have chosen.

The biggest for me is being able to download MP3’s of the chants as I simply can’t get my head around the way Pali is translated through Thai to English. The way b’s are swapped with p’s,and l’s with r's, t and d’s, w's with v's it’s easy when you are readying only a couple of words but to learn a chant for me at least is SO difficult simply using a book.

‘about the only one who ever calls me is the abbot to come to his kuti instead of him walking about a hundred and fifty yards to my kuti to get me.’

Sorry but this really was a LOL for me as I get similar *requests* from my Abbot as well!

I have a computer (obviously!) not just to keep in touch with friends in the UK but to also help them through my knowledge of Dhamma in their lives. I have been told I have helped may of my friends look at life differently without trying to convert them to Buddhism simply explaining the ways of a Buddhist.

Do you think there was this much of a problem when the printing press was invented and the overlooked benefits of easy distribution of printed Dhamma texts because it could also print pornography? No of course not.

As you say as a Western monk we are scrutinized so much more than a Thai Monk but if I can do something that will help spread Dhamma to people that don’t have easy access to it then I think I am doing a good thing.

As you say it seems to be the people critical of Monk’s and any Internet comes from lay people which I guess is understandable as they are maybe not as aware of just how hard it is developing the skills a Buddhist Monk needs in a foreign country. If my Abbot tells/asks me to look into something or I need to learn something I am unable to be taught by the Monks here I do not see how I am breaking the Vinaya or Patimokkha.

Thanks you for your support.

With metta

Para

Why not just take him to use it when needed then return him home????????????????

He can record his lessons on his Ipad. and you can distribute it for him!

Blows my mind when I walk into a IT complex and is full of Monks.

For people that should have no attachments to material items, they sure have some nice phones and laptops.

Would love to know how us working class can get all these nice things while not being employed.

Or has this faith now turned into a business?

Without sounding pedantic take him where?

His Dharma lessons are given to laypeople that come to the temple AND via the Internet. Your acknowledgement and actually encouragement of him having/using an iPad goes some what against your argument don't you think add that to the fact I am a Monk how can I distribute his teachings without using the internet.

I agree generally the only place you see a Monk outside of his temple is either on a bus or at an IT mall. When on a bus how often do you see anyone accompanying a Monk handling the money the way it should be done?

I still say its about intent not attachment. I have my robes, Alms bowl and books on Buddhism where do you draw the non attachment line to material possessions?

Is this not simply embracing a new way to communicate the teachings to more people?

@MaxwellsDemon - I understand that general internet access does open up a whole can of worms BUT it also allows access to information simply unavailable. For me personally I have learned a lot since ordaining about all aspects of Buddhism that being based in Thailand I simply wouldn’t have the resource to learn from.

The problem is my Ajahn doesn't offer flat podcast he teaches Dharma interactively which deems he is in a location that has internet access. I am trying to get him over onto a Live-cast channel but again this doesn't offer the ability to talk and be spoken to by his students it only allows typed messages.

I also have an ever growing list of email addresses not just from junior monks but also from some senior so we/they are using it and IMO using it regularly. The internet is here to stay and personally I feel it can be used constructively to help evolve Buddhism.

Buddhism has, is and will evolve as circumstances demand I feel a way to extend the number of people that are able to learn Dharma can only be a good thing.

As always this is simply IMO.

Well he has some balls to report the crime has he thought through the problems that can now so easily come to him?

I am sure the police will find a valid reason for the 8k and this certainly will never get to court. Demotion of the copper? Oh please.....

The technology is only a tool. You do not blame a tool for the bad workman or abuse it may be employed in. I'm sure if the Buddha had all the tech we have he would have used it for the benefit of many....and we might have been able to watch videos of him teaching.

'The gift of Dhamma is the greatest gift of all'

As long as we retain the Buddhist principles in that we never prosthletize, and only teach after being requested to do so.

The religions which force themselves upon others, seeking to find fault, damning non-adherents to hell, are simply evil....and cause more harm than good in the world.

Venerable sir,

To me technology is simply providing alternatives to improve communication.

You can talk directly, you can talk with skype, you can send podcasts, you can write a book, or on the internet.

Gaham

These are my personal thoughts as well. As long as the intention behind the use is pure then what problem is there?

Without the use of technology to allow our Buddhist teachers to reach a larger audience are we not in fact doing an injustice to thoes that have yet to be touched by the Dharma?

I did not think budhism was about borders, or what other people though but in you.

@harrry as my fellow Phra Hookedondhamma said my comment was from my own personal experiences as a 'Farang' Monk in Thailand.

Even FabienFred stated 'Unfortunately the Thai monks and novices have not been very respectful and find us farang monks who like to try and keep the vinaya an annoying reminder that they often do not.'

As for the comment about borders I was not referring to ones drawn up by cartographers but sadly from ones decided upon by the ego of some..

Hi. You can get Fiber to your home from CAT telecom as they usualy supply lines fones TOT/3bb. Whereever the last point is, they can put a wire from there to your house at your cost. Yes expensive but then you can re-sell internet to the whole area.

Last resort would be finding the closest person or business with internet and offering them a bit of money, then wiring your own network over the electricity/phone line pole to your house "illegaly" thus sharing their internet account over long distance

I like your angle on the problem problem is we are a forest Temple on a mountain in the middle of no where!

I am not trying to go against Buddhism, I try to be better.

IMO with that kind of intention you are already walking the road you feel you need to find.......

Yes, we do annoy the Thai monks, don't we? I'm pretty sure I annoyed a few today. :-)

I know what you mean on this one! For me whenever I attend large gatherings I am either the center of attention or almost (self?)made to feel like an outsider. Sometimes I wonder if some people forget Buddhism started in India not Thailand.

Good luck with your choice I hope you find it as rewarding as you did while you were ordained.

Whilst you have asked not to be called a Monk anymore I do hope you will still hang around this section of TV and share your knowledge.

With metta

Para

Guys I have a tech thread going on in the IT section and someone made a very interesting comment.

My Ajahn travels a lot teaching meditation and Dharma and is currently in the process of building a meditation school within our forest Temple. He used to use Skype to reach people unable to attend his classes and I moved him over onto a better solution where he is able to reach out to more students.

The meditation center will have accommodation for lay people so I have been asked to work out how to offer WiFi access to the people staying and also to allow his teachings to continue over the internet.

What are your feelings on how much of a part we, as Monks should allow technology to play in the world of Buddhism?

Correct me if I am wrong!

No correction needed and I commend you taking your time to explain this to me, an ordained Monk.

Would you mind if we kept this particular thread on topic BUT please drop by the Buddhist section where your comments and views will be so much more appreciated as I am guessing the people offering tech advice here fro me have little if any interest in the patimokkha.

With metta

Para

Can I ask why you need internet in a meditation room???

Why do the temples need internet at all???

Just asking?

Of course you can ask.

My Abbott is a very respected meditation teacher and as I said in an earlier post travels the world teaching both meditation and Dharma. Before he was using Skype but that was then only a one-to-one solution so he would be surrounded by laptop so his students in different countries were able to listen to the Dharma talk then join a meditation session.

I set up a different solution so from just 1 computer he is able to teach as many people as wish to join him.

I agree its far from traditional BUT it allows the teaching of Buddha to be more easily offered to people who wish to learn but are unable to attend the temple.

With metta

Para

Be careful with this - since it looks like the OP is worried about cost

My Abbott returned yesterday and I ran the various board suggestions by him and all were instantly dismissed on cost grounds. Great. I have been told to reposition the mounting supports to make the microwave link work.

Will take a picture tomorrow (forgot camera this morning!) just to show how dense the forest is. As with any problem its only a problem till a solution is found and I think mine is fairly easy. Been told that having a new tri-pole support (sorry don't know correct word) made isn't that expensive so with proper cable stays and lightening consideration I am going to try and get a 50m support made.

For sure it wont be me going up there to line up the dishes!

@RandomSand - I agree total cost about 30k BT which is nothing compared to the 4M currently being spent resurfacing the temple road.

@nikster - Currently no line of sight and I am as I say in a forest so will just have to increase the height of the supports.

@Darrel - No additional money available so existing hardware only.

@BuffaloRescue - This si a strange one I am on 1-2-Call prepay and cant get 3G as soon as I am in Bangkok I can so I (foolishly) made the assumption there wasn't 3G were we are as its very rural. My Abbott has been given a new 3G iPad on TOT and he is able to see and connect at 3G speed. Using the same principles as MiFi that cars have I could make something work but found out yesterday WiFi has to be group available and I don't think 3G will cope with the required bandwidth.

If this was a client I would of walked away laughing ages ago but its my Temple so I will simply look at it as a challenge rather than a problem!

Thanks for all the input and advice guys I really appreciate it.

Para

@Darrel - Always had it in my head a fiber link was super expensive. I know correct termination of the ends can be an issue will have to look into that.

@rakman - 10/100 will be more than enough and i am guessing can be upgraded later as and when, right? Didn’t know they had DIY terminators how times have changed since I have been away from London!

Guys again thanks for all the advice and input it’s been invaluable.