Para

Six human foetuses which had been "roasted" and covered in gold leaf as part of a black magic ritual

The suspect bought the foetuses several days ago from a Taiwanese man in Thailand for 200,000 baht ($6,500) and planned to sell them in Taiwan for up to six times that amount, police said.

Six human foetuses which had been "roasted" and covered in gold leaf as part of a black magic ritual

The suspect bought the foetuses several days ago from a Taiwanese man in Thailand for 200,000 baht ($6,500) and planned to sell them in Taiwan for up to six times that amount, police said.

It is always, all about the money and not a dam_n thing funny.

Sorry not having it for a second.

There are only 3 or 4 Monks in Thailand who are respected enough to prepare a Khun Paen Amulet.

Using logic for a second 6 fetuses were roasted then covered in gold leaf to be sold? Impossible. The fetuses are indeed cremated and then used as part of a mix that makes up an amulet it doesn't form one on its own.

What could well of happened here is that there is an image of Baby Buddha which is easy to spot as he has his right hand and finger raised. Theses are very often covered in gold leaf.

Para, I am sorry I cannot reply in "quote" format, for some reason this does not work in England.

This entire subject of amulets, religious symbols and fetish objects, has interested me for many years. Even in England we have "horseshoes", lucky heather and rabbit's feet. As to relics of the holy cross, if all were combined they would make a small forest of trees. Islam is no better, if all the preserved relics of the Prophet were combined the result would be a physical giant.

In Thailand we see a confrontation between pure non materialistic Buddhist ideas and animistic spirit beliefs, and these latter are winning, even to the extent of being endorsed by the majority of monks.

I do not think one can simply say Thais are culturally different because of this, I think all cultures whose religions are based on a supreme deity feel the need of a more personal relationship, a guardian angel, spirit or ancestral ghost. The main difference between Thai culture and western culture is that this need is more blatant, more "in your face".

Ah the absolute pleasure of an open mind congratulations.........

Phra Para

You would think that monks would encourage people in practice rather than good luck charms,. Oh yeah, I forgot, there's money to be made.

L.P. Sinh's temple is currently undergoing a 300M refit where do you think this money comes from? Do you think Monks make Amulets and keep the money for personal gain?

Para, "The short story is Khun Paen's wife was pregnant and she died. Khun Paen asked Buddha not to let his unborn child die as well so through a somewhat grizzly process Khun Paen's son was 'born' and helped protect him."

I am aware of this story, my problem is that a "one off" incident involving Khun Paen, then becomes a general concept and practice. Particularly when the foetus is not a "family" member but a bought artefact. It's as if Thais said, "Aha, so that's how it's done" and all copied him, but they forgot the involvement of the Buddha.

'Particularly when the fetus is not a "family" member'

How do youy know my friend Samsara means we are all trapped in the cycle of birth and rebirth until Enlightenment allows us to leave suffering and spend eternity in Nirvana so maybe that featus was a family member after all?

The whole Khun Paen and lesser know rival of Khun Chan is over 800 years old and was IMO like a lot of Amulets from that time given to soldiers to help protect them during battles. Nang Paya, Phra Rod, Phra Pong Supan another classic highly desirable Amulet from the same era.

Only the unbelievably expensive and desirable Somdej Toh is more recent (150+ years old). Prices from a prime Somdej starts around 5,000,000 and I have heard rumors that Jackie Chan paid almost 50M BT for 1.

There is another practice here, which really stretches even my tolerance - this is "nam man paai". Ask your wife if she has heard of that.

Would you mind posting the Thai for 'nam man paai' as I am struggling to find a translation and will ask one of the Monks here.....

I have no problems with the concept of gumon tong or any other sort of religious relic. What does puzzle me with the gumon tong is how did this idea arise, why should the ghost of a foetus be more powerful or dangerous than the ghost of an adult? Is a gumon tong the Asian equivalent of a poltergeist? Is it the unpredictable behaviour that is feared?

The short story is Khun Paen's wife was pregnant and she died. Khun Paen asked Buddha not to let his unborn child die as well so through a somewhat grizzly process Khun Paen's son was 'born' and helped protect him.

Remember Buddhist life is eternal based on positive and negative karma. KMT is certainly no poltergeist more of a Angel as opposed to a ghost. Most Thai's have them as they believe the power contained within is very strong.

Its incredibly hard to get your head around but this is a country with very different beliefs from ours.

Phra Para

Ask this question at the bar-b-q

Without understanding how do you think you will even begin to understand what is going on here?

There have been some very accurate posts about Gumarn Thong also called KMT in Malaysia and Singapore. The most famous Monk who made Khun Paen using remains of fetuses was L.P. Tim in Rayong. One of his original Amulets can fetch many hundred of thousands.

Before I get flamed I am an ordained Monk here in Thailand.....

Phra Para

Similar to the 30k or so fetuses found last year in BKK.

There is a lot that gores on with Thai Amulets that as Westerners we find disturbing at best.

I know a fair amount about these Amulets but for fear of a witch hunt will keep it to PM if anyone is interested.

Yes indeed you can..It was confirmed on my visit today. Cut a short story shorter..I start on Monday and the school will pay me not the government...

This is unreal.

The government recognizing the inadequate lack of education of its kids and the knee jerk reaction in actually tighten up 'real' teachers visa leaves a void which some bright spark dreams up a 'Teachers Assistant' position. Basically an untrained native English speaking person filling the gaps as best as they can.

School started this week and as best I can remember no one had actually received an official government offer.

Now its what game over? Sorry not correct for a Buddhist to say but <deleted>!

plopmeister managed to swing it in I am guessing a semi unofficial/legal way fair play for finding a way to teach the kids.

9 years I have lived in this country and whilst I wont start bashing it I simply fail to understand so many things here.

My Abbott is back tomorrow and has a couple of idea about private teaching so I will listen to what he has to say and pass on anything I think can help others.

At least we can say we tried.......

With metta

Para

Well, good luck, plopmeister, with your visit to "a Government Office" tomorrow!

Yes, definitely interested in knowing how it goes - everybody's experiences can perhaps help to make life more easy for others, as then they'll maybe know what to expect. I'd write about my experiences, too - only I don't yet have any. Everything's remarkably quiet and I haven't been contacted by any school about hours, contract, etc. since completing the application forms - nada, nothing.

I'm informed that the application forms (in this area) were actually sent off yesterday (16th) to Kurusapa (or whoever), so I don't suppose anything much will happen for quite a while....

Cheers

Splod

I'm the same at the rest of you. After the frantic rush to find Native English speakers, and multiple phone calls to my wife by about every school within a 15km radius of our home, suddenly -- nothing! Complete quiet.

I would truly love to know what is going on in the background of the various Thai bureaucracies right now.

Has anyone else noticed, but this has all the elements of a good Thai Soap Opera. I just don't what to end up being the Water Buffalo sauntering through the village with 20 Thai kids on it's back.

Que whistle (Whhhhhhuuuippppppp) and spring noise (Boing Boing Boingggg).

So I am not the only one here that has been turned away?

Para,

I'm assuming that you are a Buddhist Monk. If so, think of it from this standpoint. If you teach, are you doing anything that is counter to Vinyana? Prehaps that senior monk understands that if you teach in the school without the proper visa and work permit, you would be doing so counter to Thai law. Buddha preached "sila" (morality) and Vinyana the attempt to codify morality. If you teach, even private classes, are you breaking the law? If you break the law, are you violating Vinyana?

This is really a sad state of affairs. I've racked my brain attempting to think of legal way to help educate the poorest or the poor here in Thailand, but the law of Thailand simply do not allow for it. But for you I'll offer one more attempt:

Ask your abbot about establishing a school. Ask the abbot to use his influence to help you obtain a work permit. But, understand that if your abbot chooses not to go down that path, don't dwell to much on "why". If you are a Buddhist monk, what is your primary motivation: to possibly end suffering in your lifetime, or to teach English?

I wish you luck.

Connda your thoughts are spot on and yes I am a Buddhist Monk.

It was my Abbott that put my name up with the school to teach so he is a lot more game for it than I ever was! I understand the legal aspects and mine are certainly complex and not really for general discussion at least not off PM. To comment on the legality of working would mean involving other information which will be detrimental to my Abbott so I certainly wont do that.

My Abbot and the senior Monk are both confused as to why they would push so hard then walk away but hey in the big picture its not a show stopper is it really?

MY take on the Vinyana is as long as I am not teaching for monetary gain then I am fine. I am open to comments on that from those who have more experience than I do.

' If you are a Buddhist monk, what is your primary motivation: to possibly end suffering in your lifetime, or to teach English?'

To be able to end my personal suffering in this life would mean an eternity in Nirvana. Hopefully I will get there but I know I have many lives to live, learn and attain whats required to get there!

The thought of teaching doesn't really appeal to me but I simply want to give something back. You seem educated enough to really understand the dynamics between Monk's and laypeople we are so dependent on each other I just want to try and do my bit.

I have a feeling my Abbott will make inquiries and some (lame) answers will come up but he has already suggested I hold English lessons here at the temple twice a week with him following my teachings with meditation lessons.

The future's bright, the future is most defiantly orange!

I may be (at the moment) out of this loop but any help I can give is waiting for anyone who needs it.....

With metta

Para

Was told indirectly that I will not be required to teach at the local school. Slightly peeved as we normally have a lot of kids in and out of the Temple and their English is atrocious.

I could try and find out why I was knocked back and then resolve the problems but right now its not important to me to know hwy again Thai authority is doing its utmost to hinder rural children's education. Actually the answer to that gem is very obvious to anyone who had been here a while.

Might have a think about offering private tuition after school and at the weekends. Any thoughts?

Para

Thanks..I am quite well known in the Nackon Sawan immigration office and fully intend for the missus to give them a call tomorrow..

plopmeister sadly and 100% IMO we are in a situation here where the left has no idea what the tight is doing and goth knee's are jerking in different direction. I am not beating down on Thailand simply reflecting on the 9 years I have lived here.

Would be great if you could post the trials and tribulations of your visit just so wre know what to expect.,

Whats grating on me is why has a thread on TV been formed to find out the most basic of information. I mean what ,mess would owe of been in without the invaluable contributions of the posters?

@Scott/@Kwasaki

To be honest I am kinda happy to ride it out and see what happens. If my 'Big Boss' sees fit for me to teach then it will happen if he feels its not correct I will follow his wishes!

Any updates on official contacts guys its only 7 days til kick off?

Guys any opinions on my religious visa?????

In our area, the teaching contract is said to be only for 4 months! As yet there's no answer to the question of what happens after the 4 months are up. The government subsidy apparently stops in/after September.

I was told by the school its a 12 month contract but seems some here are on a 5 month rolling. As with most things Thai there are no set rules!

@Kwasaki Thanks for making that a little clearer for me.....

Funny I asked last night about the level of English, age range from 11 years to 16 years, 1/1 - 1/2 alphabet & writing.....2/1 - 2/2 alphabet, vowels & writing.....3/1 - 3/2 alphabet,

Alright Kwasaki please enlighten this old man as to what 1/1, 1/2, 2/1. 2/2.... ,means!

Curious has anyone heard back with official confirmation they have the job? As @Kwasaki says its only 2 weeks till kickoff.

Seeing as people are kindly posting teaching aids thought I would share this one I received from a friend in the UK.

http://jollylearning.co.uk/overview-about-jolly-phonics/

Para

@Kwasaki - Thanks for the insight its appreciated. As for the Cockney accent you wanna talk proppa like us South London boys do.... ;-)

@silentnine – I am with the other comments that just because you are labelled as an assistant don’t expect to be with another teacher. At the end of the day even without teaching skills I am sure everyone involved will bring a lot of qualities that will help the kids which is what it’s all about.

I'm curious does anyone know the expectations of a teachers assistant? I mean would they be expected to plan lessons?

40 tonne of psudo will net a return of around 20 tonne of crystal meth which is a LOT of ICE.

Someone will be hurting big time over this.

What a crazy country: on one hand the MOE forces qualified teachers to jump through a gauntlet of hoops in order to teach basic English in government schools, i.e., Thai Teaching License; but on the other hand, they come out with this latest proposal that has the village schools scrambling to hire any English speaker who is breathing and has a pulse regardless of their qualifications (or lack thereof). Wacko!

I was reading a thread on TV where someone had been teaching at the same school for 8 years but this year due to the changes he didn’t have the *right* degree and was told he could teach any more and yet here they are back filling that decision with the likes of us who are keen BUT far from qualified. Just another Thai knee jerk reaction that has bitten them and the fear of losing face to loosen the new restrictions means a two tier teaching standard.

i can't help wondering if this will be like the tablets for schools

lots of scurrying around then no funds to follow it thru leaving lots of unpaid village farangs

Quite possibly but I feel the intention of the people looking to fill the assistants role is not really financial. So they end up knocking the wages and you lose a month’s pay I am sure that threat won’t stop many.

A post critical of grammar has been deleted along with a reply.

Grammar Nazi's are not appreciated. The topic is not about grammar or spelling or the use of English.

Please stay on topic.

+1

10,000 for six hours per week. I've been offered 20k for 14 hours per week. Schedule is up to me and they have offered to allow me use of the classroom after hours for private lessons.

What teaching experience do you have?

ahh, so did you go directly to the schools to ask for work? did you get your work permit sorted and did they help you? i assume the pay is less than if you have quals. can you live on the pay? thx

deb

The school came to me as I am actually a Monk at the local temple. My *paperwork* situation is very different from anyone else’s so I really can’t answer that question, sorry. As a Monk the local community supports me so the money isnt my main interest but will obviously come in handy for things!