Dogmatix

The UK has exported countless wanted criminals to Thailand where they often become pillars of the Pattaya expat community engaging in property scams, drug dealing, brothel businesses, call centre scams, murder and other businesses appropriate to their education, skils and experience. HMG doesn't seem to bother with preventing them from travelling or making much effort to get them back (I wonder why) and Thailand welcomes them with open arms and LTR visas, if they can drop enough cash. The Pattaya BiB are also very happy to welcome new clients to their protection business. A few years back a British ambassador attended a charity event organised by two British crims wanted in the UK for fraud and had himself photographed with them, showing how much due diligence the embassy, which now bills itself purely as a promoter of British commerce, does on UK business projects it supports in the Kingdom. Finding he had more of an affinity for business than diplomacy, after rubbing shoulders like this with the British business community, he cut short his ambassadorship and left the FCO soon afterwards for a private sector job with a leading Thai beverage producer.

Time was that you could go to the airport, pay the maximum overstay fine of 20k, leave the country and fly back again with a new visa and start it all over again. But that came to an end a few years and, to be fair, the government gave months of warning to overstayers to leave when they could still pay the fine and come back again without blacklisting. This guy and his wife could easily have got their visas in order but chose not to. They could also have refrained from keeping dangerous dogs and not keeping them under control. They are obviously not overly bright but no sympathy for them for behaving in a dangerously anti social manner.

"The Banglamung Police Chief Colonel Nawin Sinturat told the Pattaya News they were notified from neighbors of the suspect that the foreigners who lived in this house had previously caused some trouble. Their dogs were allegedly chasing after kids and motorbikes." He kept 3 Dobermans who were allegedly threatening the safety of kids and others, so neighbours called police. How would that play out in Germany, if a foreign overstayer behaved like that I wonder? Not well I expect. He deserves to be booted out the country and blacklisted for life. That type of dangerous trash is not needed in Thailand.

His dogs would certainly be shot and killed in the US and him probably too.

All tatoos are disgusting. So what's the difference?

Not really true. Net foreign portfolio inflows on the equity side have been strongly positive for the last few months.

"Knowing well that there could be a backlash like those seen in 2002, the Prayut government could have learnt a lesson or 2 from the mistakes and the criticism against the move in 2002 to look at how to improve on them." Very poor reporting with no research done. There was no backlash whatsoever in 2002, simply because hardly anyone was aware these regulations had been issued and anyway the regulations were a deliberate attempt by the Thaksin regime to sabotage the law by specifying qualifying investments that didn't exist to prevent foreigners from taking advantage of the law. The backlash took place in 1999 when the amendment to the Land Code was railroaded through parliament by the Democrat led government with Chuan Leekpai at its helm. There was a lot of opposition to the bill, including from Chuan's own backbench Democrat MPs, particularly to the original bill that allowed foreigners with Thai spouses to buy a rai of land without having to invest 40 million in other investments. Once the dust had settled and they got the law passed in parliament, the Chuan government somehow got cold feet and didn't issue the enabling ministerial regulations before it got trounced by Thaksin in the 2000 elections. The Thaksin administration dragged its heels for two years and then issued the regulations it did in 2002 to guarantee the failure of the new law. But the Chuan government was to blame for successfully fighting a monumental battle in parliament but failing to follow through with the enabling legislation. Since the justification of the law was to help revive the real estate sector devastated by the Tom Yum Kung crisis, it was inexcusable that they didn't activate the law immediately.

"Thais have been labelling the scheme as ‘selling the country’ to foreigners." Most of my Thai friends, including those of Chinese origin, were talking about the government selling the country to the Chinese.

It is pathetic that the government went so far with this without any proper planning or PR campaign, knowing there woud be a backlash, only to chicken out. But, fortunately, this has no impact on foreign investment either way because it was never aimed at mainstream corporate foreign direct investment or institutional portfolio investment in stocks and bonds - only at individual investors who are an insignificant source of foreign investment flows. It would have been good for a few property developers, brokers, lawyers etc but the impact on the Thai economy would have been minimal as it was to be limited to people with the new LTR visas making other qualifying investments of 40 mil which is a fairly limited market. It was a ridiculous concept to offer it to LTR visa holders only. This is an untested type of visa offered to unknown people who are don't have to be in Thailand laready. The law was passed in 1999 and the opportunity should have been offered to permanent residents a long time ago. They are people who have already been in Thailand for a number of years, have proven contributions to Thai society and have clean Thai and home country police records. Offering to people whose main qualification is a bunch of hot cash they want to drop was stupid and asking for trouble.

Most types of land lease are limited to 30 years for Thais and foreigners alike. It would be a good idea to extend this to 50, 90, 99, 125 and periods common overseas. However, leasing law is pretty scant in Thailand and buying a lease doesn't give you the same ownership rights, as in most developed countries. On a very basic level, it is not even clear that, once the lessor has died or sold the land, the new owner is under any obligation to honour the lease, since a lease is an agreement under the Civil and Commercial Code that binds only the two contracting parties, not future owners of the land or inheritors of the leasehold. So it is also not clear that heirs can inherit the right. All these details have to specified in the contract which Thai lawyers working on behalf of the land owner will not be inclined to do. Even if they are included, the leasehold or heirs would have sue in the Civil Courts for damages after violation of these terms. That means not getting the lease back, if successful, but having to quantify the actual financial damage suffered as a result of breach of contract and trying to claim for that. Good luck to anyone who ever has to do this.

"The four categories include high-wealth persons, retirees, individuals who intend to work from Thailand, and specialists who possess certain skills." Unless retiress have so much in assets that their don't care or have no children, the inability to pass on the land to heirs through inheritance will be a problem for many of them. It could also be a problem for a retired couple, if one predeceases the other, if registered solely in the deceased's name or even in joint names. Transfer to the surviving party may require re-establishing right to buy. The now expired treaty rights for foreigners to buy land in the Land Code specifically provided for foreign heirs to inherit the land but this provision does not. So the estate of the deceased is obliged to sell the land within 12 months and give the proceeds to foreign heirs. You can imagine the scope this gives Thai lawyers and executors to fleece foreign heirs residing overseas and having no clue about Thai laws.

The original version of the bill to amend the Land Code like this in 1999 had a category for foreigners married to Thais who got exemption from the requirement to invest 40 billion. This hasn't been revived. I wonder why not? 555 Why are PRs not included in this? Perhaps not many would agree to the 40 million but there are many PRs who are not married to Thais and would love to have a piece of land in their own names. They are just offering to the new fangled LTR visa holders because that was a pet project of theirs, even though it might not survive, and ignoring PR status that has stood the test of time since 1927.

Can you cite examples where Thai courts have rejected the land ownership by a foreigner and what the court ordered to be done to rectify the situation? I am unaware of any cases like this and can't think who would sue in the court. The Land Department has power to force the company to sell the land or it can seize the land and have the Legal Execution Dept sell it by public auction without going to court. But I have never heard of cases where this happened either. There have just been threatening noises made from time to time but, so far, never any action. What has become more difficult, since a letter sent to land offices by the Interior Ministry in the last days of the Thaksin government before the 2006 coup, ordering them to check, is registering land in the name of any company that has any foreigners associated with it at all, whether as shareholders, directors or just people hanging around in the Land Office, Before 2006 the instruction to land offices was just to refer to the director general any transaction where foreigners owned over 40% of the shares but it was easy to get around this by reducing the foreign shareholding to 40% in the Land Office before going up to the counter and increasing it back up to 49% before leaving the office.

Meant for Chinese, not falangs. PTT div yield is 5.25% net of 20% withholding tax, not north of 7%. I don’t think you can invest in stocks. Govt bonds or REITs only most likely. Listed REITs pay high divs and not bad. What makes you think land prices in urban areas eligible for this scheme have been falling? They did in the Tom Yung Kung crisis of 1997 which was devastating for Thailand but not in the 2008-9 GFC and not that I have seen during COVID. I seem to recall that the 2002 ministerial regulations required construction to commence within 1 year on raw land and would expect something similar to prevent speculation on raw land. Of course you could buy a ready made house. The capital appreciation potential for structures is different from raw land, as most rich Thais want to demolish the house, even if in good condition, and build their own design. You might only get the value of the land. So best to build a modest shack. no rights of inheritance for foreign heirs but they get the sales proceeds. The estate must sell the land within 12 months, if heirs are Thai. Hidden costs. You need the minister’s approval for each transaction. Better factor in a signing fee. Since you will have to wait for God knows how long for the paperwork, sellers are likely to charge a higher price, if Thai buyers are interested, and you could be gazumped by a Thai buyer while waiting anyway. These were all factors that came to mind when the law was passed in 1999 but when the ministerial regs came out in 2002, the qualifying investments were no longer available. Anyway I had already gone the company route in 2000.

Not good news. No law means a vacuum that can be more easily filled by the next government drafting a completely new bill that bans recreational sales completely. If there is already a law with certain restrictions in place, it will be harder to amend that, than to draft a new law, if there is nothing in place.

Did this a couple of times at CW but never again. Horrendous wait. Once they insisted on an edit. So back to the translation agency and then repeat the whole thing. Once they lost the original document and made no effort to find it. Just shrugged it off. Their English is very poor. They let garbage through and insist on edits that make no sense to a native speaker but don’t bother trying to argue with them. They have the power. in future I will pay the translation agency to do this tedious job. Well worth it if they require an edit. Let them sort it out for themselves.

Well if it hasn’t happened after 30 years, Bob, you already know it ain’t gonna happen. So quit worrying about it.

Right. Not only single rais for residential use in a Bkk and Pattaya. Sea front land in resorts and large tracts of agricultural land. I can imagine that investigation of the initial transactions would reveal Chinese buyers buying from Chinese nominees.

Most Thais I talk to, including those of Chinese origin, say their government is planning to sell the country to the Chinese and are not happy about. Even real estate brokers who hope to profit from it are unhappy with the principle. No one is worried about poor blue eyed chaps like you. You overestimate yourself. All focus is on the Chinese invaders.

Thaksin did not introduce this. He sabotaged it. The Land Code was amended by the Chuan Democrat Government in 1999 resulting Section 96 bis that allows the ownership of 1 rai of residential land in Bkk, Pats and other designated urban areas in exchange for investment of 40 mil in investments to be specified in ministerial regulations. But the Dems lost interest in the hot potato after a bitter fight with their own backbenchers and the opposition to get the legislation passed and left the regulations to the next government which happened to be Thaksin. His government spent a couple of years drafting regulations to ensure that the qualifying investments would never be available. Today Thaksin’s PT party remains consistent in opposing foreign land ownership, despite his own foreign land holdings. Where did you get the idea this was introduced by Thaksin?

Why not just use a translation agency direct? Many of them provide the MFA legalization service at an additional cost and take responsibility for any edits demanded by the MFA. I have used Sawadee Translations and found them very efficient and friendly and reasonably priced managed by a native English speaker who checks the English translations, which helps avoid the rubbish English you usually get from Thai owned translation agencies. Having said that, the MFA is happy to approve translations into rubbish English because their translators’ level of English is poor, as you would expect, given the low standard of English teaching in Thailand. I have had them actually insist on an edit that was very poor English. I have no connection with Sawadee, other than as a customer. There are also many other transaction agencies out there that can do the job for you. If you go with a “legal service”, they will only subcontract a translation agency and mark up the price 100%.

The Land Code doesn't allow for inheritance by foreign heirs which could be a problem for some potential buyers. Originally the Land Code did allow for inheritance of land by foreigh heirs in the context of the foreign treaties but since there are no surviving foreign treaties that permit land ownership. Unless foreign heirs are qualified to buy land under this scheme, the land will have to be sold. Also while the estate of a Thai citizen has Thai national status, the estate of a foreigner does not which means the estate might have to transfer the land within 30 days of the owner's decease.

Only the ministerial regulation to do with the qualifying investments to be reviewed every 5 years. The 40 million is already in the Land Code and can't be changed without a new law that has to go through parliament.

I have never met Anutin but friends who have done business with him say it is actually very smart and savvy. He seems to cultivate his boorish image with the racist comments and other BS to appeal to his poltical base who are mainly peasant farmers in Buriram and Srisaket but he is hoping to expand that to other parts of the NE and South in the next election. Pretending to be an idiot is also a clever way to avoid having to make intelligent repsonses to unwelcome media questions.

The other side of the coin is that most have already tried relationships with Thai men in their own age group and decided they don't want another Thai man.