gharknes

You've gotta wonder if the 'father' in this thread that will kill anybody who gets his son involved in drugs enjoys a few beers within the kids sight as well, or even leaves alcohol in the family fridge thereby enforcing this dangerous and addictive drug's image as being 'OK' to to use, or at the very least to be left unquestioned as it's legal.

Hey pal, the last time I checked, it was not against the law, as drugs use is, to drink alcohol.

As I say the only people that seem to be defending drug use are the druggies themselves!!

And please do not try to tell me that just because it is legal to drink alcohol, that it doesnt mean its wrong. Thats why we have laws in this country and every country for that matter.

So bkkmadness, you do whatever you want to do, as long as that does not affect me or my family then that is fine. Should that line be crossed then its a different ball game

I think you missed the point completely. My point was not about the legality of it, but I was wondering whether you ever worried about the effects from regularly consuming drugs in front of your children as you seem to be violently oppose to others pushing them in the wrong direction. I take it you are a drinker/drug user? Do you smoke as well?

Laws on drug use are pathetic when cannabis a harmless and medically beneficial drug is illegal but a dangerous drug like alcohol is. You don't need to ask druggies about that one, try policemen, doctors, politicans etc.

You are at best misguided and out of step with the harmfull effects of Cannabis B.K.M.

As early as the nineties the harmfukl effects where being published and again in 2004 concerns where being published about the harmful side effects of smoking it.

Like many users posting on this thread ( Off topic by the way regarding the OP on trafficing ) it would appear you are trying to justify the O.K. scenario for your possible use of substances that harmful to your health and are in denial no matter what experts prove via research and what the majority of human beings witness and experience all over the world.

You are entitled to fry your brains, explode your vital organs and blow your heads off as you all say is your right.

It,s your choice but please do not be selfish enough to lack consideration for others who become entangled in the after effects of your ill advised actions, especially in private where help will be isolated when you will eventually need it.

marshbags

A long couple of posts follows

Quote ( 1 )

Cannabis-related health risks

Annex D

A review paper prepared for DrugScope's submission to the Home Affairs Select Committee.

Drawn extensively from a technical paper by John Witton,

National Addiction Centre.

Headlines | Introduction | Short-term effects of cannabis | Long-term effects of cannabis | References

Important Note

Any review of the possible health implications of cannabis needs to be placed in the comparative perspective of what is known about alcohol and tobacco, two other widely used psychoactive drugs. Cannabis shares with tobacco, smoking as the usual route of administration and resembles alcohol in being used for intoxicating and euphoric effects. The comparison serves the useful purpose of reminding us of the risks we currently tolerate with our most widely used psychoactive drugs (Hall, W et al, 1996.).

Headlines

Cannabis is not a harm-free drug.

It is important to look at cannabis in the context of the risks society already accepts.

The primary health problems associated with the drug are the possibility of respiratory disorders similar to those experienced by tobacco smokers.

Cannabis use may also exacerbate existing mental health problems.

Many of the other possible risks from using cannabis remain unproven or inconclusive.

Due to the nature of the evidence it is important that policy makers assess the likely health impact on the greatest number, rather than extrapolating from individual case studies or those involving surveys with only small samples.

In relation to the millions of individuals who have been exposed to the drug in this country since the late 1960s, cannabis compares favourably (in terms of health implications) with legal drugs widely used such as alcohol and tobacco.

INTRODUCTION

1. This paper summarises the best currently available evidence for the adverse effects of cannabis use. The evidence is predominantly drawn from studies involving humans. There is inconclusive evidence available in a number of areas and this will be indicated where appropriate.

The sources

2. This paper is based in a number of authoritative major reviews of the cannabis research literature conducted in the last decade and supplemented by more recent research reports where appropriate.

Interpreting the evidence base

3. Much of the research evidence reviewed derives from American studies, although there is increasing evidence emerging from Australian research. There are a number of difficulties in assessing the value of this evidence:

The main psychoactive component of cannabis is tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) and apart from laboratory studies, it is difficult to ascertain the amount of THC consumed by cannabis users

Cannabis is often used with other substances, most commonly alcohol and tobacco, which may also have adverse effects on health and make it difficult to distinguish the effects of cannabis from those of these substances

The prohibited status of cannabis has made the collection of epidemiological evidence difficult

There is a lack of controlled long-term studies

Most cannabis use is intermittent and time-limited, with most users stopping in their mid to late twenties.

SHORT-TERM EFFECTS OF CANNABIS

4. The reported effects of cannabis use are a sense of euphoria and relaxation, perceptual distortions, time distortion and the intensification of sensory experiences such as listening to music. Cannabis use in social settings can lead to increased talkativeness and infectious laughter followed by states of introspection and dreaminess. The user typically has a feeling of greater emotional and physical sensitivity that can include greater interpersonal empathy. Short-term memory and attention are also impaired. (Hall 1998; Joy et al 1999).

5. Cannabis use can increase the heart rate by 20-100% above baseline. This increase is greatest in the first 10 to 20 minutes then decreases rapidly thereafter. The rate of decrease depends on whether smoked or oral cannabis is used, lasting three hours in the former and five hours in the latter (Graham 1986; Hall et al 1994; Joy et al 1999). Blood pressure is increased while the person is sitting and decreased while standing. The change from sitting to standing can cause faintness and dizziness due to the change in blood pressure These cardiovascular effects are of negligible clinical significance because most cannabis users are young and healthy and develop tolerance to these effects (Hall 1994; 1998; Joy et al 1999).

Mood effects

6. Adverse mood effects can occur, particularly in inexperienced users, after large doses of cannabis. Anxiety and paranoia are the most common of these effects and others include panic, depression, delusions, and hallucinations. These effects normally disappear after a few hours after cessation of use and are responsive to reassurance and a supportive environment (Adams and Martin 1996; Joy et al 1999).

Toxicity

7. The acute toxicity of cannabis is very low and there is no overdose risk from cannabis. There are no confirmed published cases of human deaths related to cannabis poisoning (Hall 1998).

Psychomotor effects and driving

8. Cannabis produces dose-related impairments in a wide range of behavioural and cognitive functions. These include slowing reaction time and information processing, and impairing perceptual and motor performance, tracking behaviour and time perception. These effects can increase with the dose of THC and are larger and more persistent with tasks that require sustained attention (Chait and Pierri 1992). These effects may have implications for accidents if the users drive or operate machinery while intoxicated.

9. Laboratory driving simulator and standardised road studies have found impairments in driving skills after cannabis use, similar to those effects when blood alcohol levels are between 0.07% and 0.10%. However more realistic on-road and simulator studies have found that cannabis drivers tend to be more cautious and drive more slowly, compared to alcohol-intoxicated drivers. This may be because they are aware of their intoxication and take appropriate precautions (Hall et al 1994; Smiley 1998).

10. Epidemiological evidence for the role of cannabis in road accidents is equivocal. UK studies have found traces of illicit drugs in 18% of those killed in fatal accidents, with cannabis constituting around two thirds of the drugs found (Sexton et al 2001). However, because traces of cannabis can remain in the body system for up to 28 days the presence of cannabinoids in the blood of accident victims cannot be taken to indicate that the driver was intoxicated at the time of the accident. Many drivers in accidents also have a high blood alcohol level at the time of their accident. Two studies with drivers who had only used cannabis found that there was no increased culpability of accidents amongst this group (Chesher 1995).

LONG-TERM EFFECTS OF CANNABIS

Respiratory system

11. Cannabis smoke contains many of the same components as tobacco smoke. As much as four times the amount of tar can be deposited on the lungs of cannabis smokers as cigarette smokers if a cigarette of comparable weight is smoked. This difference is probably the result of differences in administration. Cannabis cigarettes usually do not have filters and cannabis smokers usually develop a larger puff volume, inhale more deeply and hold their breath several times longer than tobacco smokers (Joy et al 1999).

12. Chronic smoking effects are similar to those of tobacco smoking. Chronic heavy use of cannabis is associated with increased symptoms of chronic bronchitis such as coughing and wheezing. Lung function is impaired and there are greater abnormalities in the large airways of cannabis smokers than non-smokers. Cannabis smoking is associated with changes in bronchial tissue. Many cannabis smokers have erythema (increased redness of airway tissues) and edema (swelling of the airway tissues). (Joy et al 1999). Studies have shown that people who are regular users of cannabis but not tobacco have more symptoms of chronic bronchitis than non-smokers (Hall 2001).

Carcinogenicity

13. There is no conclusive evidence that cannabis causes cancer in humans including those cancers associated with tobacco use. However, cellular, genetic and human studies suggest that cannabis smoke may be an important risk factor for the development of respiratory cancer. There is not yet any evidence from controlled studies showing a higher rate of respiratory cancers among chronic cannabis smokers. However there is evidence of an additive effect of cannabis and tobacco smoking on abnormalities in lung tissue, similar to those that precede lung cancer in tobacco smokers (Joy et al, 1999; Tashkin, 1999; Hall, 2001). These effects are related to the amount of cannabis smoked and it has been argued that cannabis smokers will not smoke as much as tobacco smokers or smoke as long in their lives. Most cannabis users have stopped using cannabis by their mid- to late- twenties.

14. There have been case reports of cancers in the digestive tract of young adults with a history of heavy cannabis use. These findings are significant because these kinds of cancers are rarely found in the adults under the age of 60, even among those who smoke tobacco and drink alcohol. This suggests that cannabis smoking may potentate the effects of other risk factors such as tobacco smoking and is a more important risk factor than tobacco and alcohol use in the early development of respiratory cancers (Sridhar 1994; Joy et al 1999; Hall 2001).

Reproductive system

15. THC has been found to inhibit reproductive function in the few human studies reported although these studies have yielded inconsistent evidence. On the basis of research on animals it has been argued that cannabis would probably decrease fertility for both men and women in the short term (Hall et al 1994; Joy et al 1999). It has been suggested that in this respect the possible effects of cannabis use may be most significant for those males whose fertility is already impaired, for example those with a low sperm count (Hall et al 1994).

16. The results of research studies on the effects of prenatal cannabis use and birth outcome have been small and inconsistent. Some studies have suggested that cannabis smoking in pregnancy may reduce birthweight. A controlled study has found this relation has remained after controlling for any confounding variables but this relation has not been found in other studies (Zuckerman et al 1989; Hall and Solowij 1998; Joy et al 1999). The effects of cannabis smoking where the study has found an association has been small compared to tobacco (Fried 1998). There is little evidence that gestation is shorter except for adolescent mothers (Cornelius et al 1995). Large well-controlled epidemiological studies have found no evidence that cannabis causes birth defects (Zuckerman et al 1989).

17. Cannabis may have behavioural and developmental effects on infants exposed in utero during the first few months after birth. Between the ages of 4 and 9 children who have been exposed to cannabis in utero have shown deficits in sustained attention, memory and cognitive functioning. However the effects were small compared to tobacco and their clinical significance is unclear. The underlying causes might be the cannabis exposure or might be more closely related to the reasons underlying the mothers' use of cannabis during pregnancy (Fried 1998; Hall and Solowij 1998; Joy et al 1999).

18. Recent case studies have found an increased risk of child cancers in children born to mothers who reported using cannabis during their pregnancies. However cannabis was one amongst several factors considered in the analysis of the data from these studies and this area requires further study (Hall and Solowij 1998).

Immune system

19. There is no conclusive evidence that cannabis impairs immune function to any significant extent. The few studies that have suggested that cannabis has an adverse effect on the immune system have not been replicated.

Neurological and mental health issues

20. There is evidence that large doses of THC can produce an acute psychosis marked by confusion, amnesia, delusions, hallucinations, anxiety, and agitation. Such reactions are rare and occur usually after heavy cannabis use, or in some instances, after acute cannabis use by sensitive/vulnerable individuals. These effects abate rapidly after discontinuing cannabis use. There is little evidence that cannabis alone produces a psychosis that persists after the period of intoxication (Hollister 1986; Hall 1998; Joy et al 1999).

21. A Swedish study found an association between cannabis use and schizophrenia. In this prospective study of 50,000 Swedish conscripts a dose response relation was found between the frequency of cannabis use and the risk of a diagnosis of schizophrenia over the next 15 years (Andreasson et al 1987). Although the value of this study has been debated (Negrete 1989; Hall 1998), it has been suggested that cannabis use may exacerbate the symptoms of schizophrenia and a prospective study has found that continued cannabis use predicts more psychotic symptoms in people with schizophrenia (Linszen et al 1990). However, the incidence of schizophrenia has decreased in recent years whilst the use of cannabis has increased. Hall suggests that, this may indicate that cannabis use is unlikely to have caused cases of schizophrenia that might not have otherwise occurred. Chronic cannabis use may precipitate cannabis in vulnerable individuals but not cause the underlying psychotic disorder, an effect that would not change reported incidence (Hall and Solowij1998). Overall, those people with schizophrenia or a family history of schizophrenia are at a greater risk for adverse effects from the use of cannabis (McGuire 1995).

Dependence

22. Heavy smokers of cannabis develop tolerance to the subjective and cardiovascular effects of cannabis. Some users report a withdrawal syndrome on cessation of use with symptoms that may include restlessness, irritability, mild agitation, insomnia, sleep disturbance, nausea and cramping. Controlled laboratory studies have observed withdrawal symptoms which were short lived and abated after 4 days. However, there are still methodological problems to be addressed in measuring the severity of these withdrawal symptoms (Smith in press).

23. There is some evidence that a cannabis dependence syndrome occurs with heavy cannabis use marked by difficulty in controlling use and continued use despite experiencing adverse personal consequences (Stephens et al 1993; Swift et al 1999). American studies have found that about one in ten of those who ever use cannabis become dependent on it during the 4-5 years of heaviest use (Anthony et al 1994). However, the risk of dependence is more like that for alcohol, than tobacco and opioids (Hall and Solowij1998; Joy et al 1999). This may be due to differences in drug effects, its availability or the penalties associated with the use of the drug or some combination of these.

Cognitive effects

24. Studies have shown that cannabis can produce a subtle impairment of attention, memory and the organisation and integration of complex information (Block and Ghoneim 1993; Joy et al 1999). The longer the cannabis use the more pronounced the impairment. These impairments are subtle and it remains unclear whether these effects are reversed after an extended period of abstinence or what implications they may have for everyday functioning (Hall and Solowij 1998; Solowij 1998). In addition, researching this complex area is difficult: for example there has been criticism of the adequacy of matching cannabis uses with control subjects in those studies on cognitive deficits in heavy cannabis users (Joy et al 1999). There is no evidence for the scale of severe or debilitating impairment of memory, cognitive function and attention found with chronic heavy alcohol use. There is no evidence that cannabis causes structural brain damage in humans.

Cannabis and adolescent development

25. There is no evidence to support a causal relationship between cannabis use and those behavioural characteristics which have been described as an amotivational syndrome (Joy et al 1999). Studies have shown an association between heavy cannabis use in adolescence and the risk of leaving school early and of experiencing job instability in young adulthood. However, the strength of these associations are reduced in longitudinal studies when the low educational aspirations and poorer school performance of heavy cannabis users before their cannabis use is taken into account (Fergusson and Horwood 1997; Hall 1998). On balance the evidence available suggests that daily or near daily cannabis use does not improve the educational performance of those who were performing poorly already (Lynskey and Hall 2000).

Impact of increased potency of cannabis

26. High THC-containing cannabis seems to have become increasingly available although the published evidence for this is scant (Hall and Swift 1999; Ashton 2001). This may reflect an increased market for more potent cannabis amongst regular users and improved methods of growing high potency cannabis. The health implications of this development are unclear. Those who use these high potency products may increase their risks of developing dependence, having accidents while driving or experiencing psychotic symptoms (Hall 1998). However, regular users may be able to titrate their dose and decrease the risks of respiratory disease and naive users who experience adverse effects may be deterred from further cannabis use (Hall 1998).

Conclusion

27. Cannabis is not a harm-free drug. The primary problems with the drug focus mainly on the possibility of respiratory disorders similar to those experienced by tobacco smokers and the risk of exacerbating existing mental health problems. Many of the other possible risks from using cannabis remain unproven or inconclusive. In using this data to help formulate policy that will impact on many individuals, it is helpful to think of the likely health impact on the greatest number, rather than extrapolating from individual case studies or those involving surveys with only small samples. In relation to the millions of individuals who have been exposed to the drug in this country since the late 1960s, cannabis compares favourably (in terms of health implications) with legal drugs widely used such as alcohol and tobacco.

Unquote.

Quote ( 2 )

Cannabis raises risk of psychosis

Frequent cannabis use during adolescence and young adulthood raises the risk of psychotic symptoms later in life, research suggests.

The risk was much higher in young people who were already genetically vulnerable to developing psychosis.

It is thought cannabis disrupts the balance of the key mood chemical dopamine in the brain.

The research, by Maastricht University, is published by the British Medical Journal.

It is time to ensure that this information is in the public domain and, most importantly, available to teachers who are health educators in schools.

Dinah Morley

It focused on 2,437 young people aged 14 to 24 who were monitored for four years.

After adjusting for factors such as social and economic status and use of other drugs, tobacco, and alcohol, the researchers found cannabis use moderately increased the risk of psychotic symptoms.

However, the effect was much stronger in those with a predisposition for psychosis.

And the researchers said their findings did not support the theory that the link was simply down to people with such a predisposition being more likely to use cannabis, rather than cannabis in some way making psychosis more likely.

There was little evidence that people who were genetically vulnerable to psychosis were any more likely to indulge in drug taking, they found.

Warning on use

Lead researcher Professor Jim van Os told the BBC News website that using cannabis was not a good idea for these people.

He said: "If there is a family or personal history of mental frailty - stay away form it!"

Martin Barnes, chief executive of the charity DrugScope, said: "The research underlines that there are potentially serious health risks associated with cannabis use, particularly for young people.

"The challenge is to ensure that messages on cannabis use are understood by teachers and health professionals working with young people and conveyed in ways that young people will listen to.

"Shock tactics alone rarely work, but we need to get across that just because you know people who appear to be OK using cannabis, it doesn't mean that are or that it will be OK for you.

"After reclassification, which DrugScope supports, cannabis remains an illegal drug. Most young people know that cannabis is illegal and harmful, but some may not appreciate what the harms can be."

Dinah Morley, of the charity Young Minds, said the study added to previous work suggesting an association between cannabis and psychosis.

"It gives support to the emerging understanding that a predisposition to psychosis combined with the early abuse of cannabis has an increased likelihood of triggering a psychotic illness.

"Further exploration of why this should happen - in terms of neurological development - will be needed.

"Nevertheless it is time to ensure that this information is in the public domain and, most importantly, available to teachers who are health educators in schools."

Disturbing consequences

Marjorie Wallace, Chief Executive of the mental health charity Sane, said: "Britain's position as the cannabis capital of Europe could have hidden and disturbing consequences.

"We need to make the risks known, clamp down on drug dealing in such places as playgrounds and hospital wards, and change perceptions of cannabis from being a recreational relaxant to a dangerous substance for those who are vulnerable."

Cliff Prior, of the mental health charity Rethink, called for clearer warning about use of the drug.

He said: "Reclassification has sent out a mixed and confusing message.

"There is a strongly-held view that cannabis is risk-free, reflected in the rates of its use among young people.

"Cannabis is not risk free. We have known for years that using cannabis makes the symptoms of schizophrenia far worse in people who already have the illness.

"There is a rapidly growing body of evidence showing that cannabis can trigger schizophrenia in people already at risk - and probably even in people who should only be low risk."

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/health/4052963.stm

Published: 2004/12/01 11:10:45 GMT

By the way should someone With M.S., Alzheimers ect. find it beneficial to relieve pain and other enhance their quality of life, i am all for it.

That,s a different debate and my government at present are allowing it to be used / turning a blind eye, for this purpose while further researching on this issue.

Unquote.

take a walk down sukumvit, every breath you take is doing more harm to your health than weed ever will, diesel fumes are the most carcinogentic this you will breath into your body, many many times more than tobacco

I am not defending the guy in the OP, the nasty side of drugs is money being made through addiction and the things people will do to pay for their next fix, this guy is in the loop but is by no means the worst part of the loop, large companies and governments have been making huge sums of money from cigarett and alccohaul addiction for many years, legal or illegal it all amounts to the same thing morally.

bomber agrees with your comments.altough nobody seems to agree with mine.maybe i was a bit harsh with my comments.but still have to say the guys problems will have been self-inflickted.pattaya is not the place to go if your looking for sympathy.we all know

No Kidding!

The guys problems have been self-inflickted ( sic ) jeees, how on earth do you know that.

Can't you grasp anything from what has been posted earlier.

It could be drink/drugs or any other self abuse but it could also be mental illness or a guy who is in the depths of despair at this time, the least that could be spared is a listening ear.

It might not work, but you know, it just might.

Shall I kick him while he is down or shall I give him something to listen to, without having to spend a single satang on his hospital bill.

Now which option would make you feel better?

Good Luck

Moss

nice post from a nice person I think............respect

There is the possibility he has a mental illness but at the same time, one must realize that people (healthy and ill alike) come to Pattaya for one last hurrah before kicking off (naturally or self inflicted).

This recent story shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone who regularly reads Pattaya news. Last month was the story of a Croatian woman successfully committing suicide in south Pattaya (not at all the 1st female farrang suicide here). It's ongoing and soon enough you will sadly read of another one.

Mr Pattaya Punter has a point.

No one should pass a judgement and feel that what they are presented with is the solid fact of the event.

I love Pattaya.

Or should I say ,I love the crack that Pattaya has.

If I was thinking of drinking loads of strong medicine and falling asleep on the pavement,I,ld probably do it in Pattaya.

I would,nt think of doing it in Manilla(for example)

craic

Some of this is rather sad. Obviously many of the posters have never seen drug addiction at it's worst. Well I have. Not, I might add, by taking drugs myself.

If you have seen anyone doing "cold turkey" through lack of heroin you do not want ot see it twice. I have seen it more than enough. It does not even come close to someone who gets a bit grumpy from giving up fags. If you have seen people whose bones are crumbling, whose noses collapse, whose teeth fall out through using this filth you would understand. What cigarettes or alcohol will do to you does not come close. And remember most narcotic abusers get this not all smokers do.

If you have seen addicts unable to work and so steal to finance their habit you would understand. They usually start stealing from family and friends first and then go farther afield. Needless to say many end up in prison - not for drug offences, but for stealing and the like. If you have seen the wives and children whose husband/father is an addict who steal to support themselves when husband/father cannot work because he is an addict you would understand.

I have seen this over many years and I understand. If you thing that an occassional puff or the odd pill is what this is about you better come into the real world. For a start most hard core addicts start like that. Drug pushers have all the sales pitches. Two or three doses of heroin or crack and your hooked and then your self choice is gone - usually for good.

Yes addicts are victims - and so are their families.

An earlier poster referred to me as seeing thing in black and white. Most things, in fact just about everything else, I see in many shades of grey. This, however, I see as black and white. Sorry - I've seen a lot of life around this world. My experiences have conditioned me. I cannot conceive of very much that is more evil that drug trafficking in a way, shape or form. When you have seen some thing that I have your views will change - if you have a heart that is.

Like i have asked you before, please share some of the crap from your closet mr purity, i'll give you a lead...............ever drivien a car while pissed up ? i'll challenge that you have...........................glass houses

go figure......................long and hard.......you are not perfect....................none of us are

I dont belive the news story because, how can the police be notified that someone has withdrawn money from an ATM, ? Even if it is a cloned card it will withdraw the money,the machine wont know its been stolen,if the cards been cancelled abroad already then it cant withdraw money.

The point is the machine will not call the police so how did the police know ? I think the sri lankans caught a couple of weeks ago just grassed them up.

i agree, the whole thing is bbullshit

Phuket police seize over 5,000 fake credit cards

The cards seized in Phuket were similar to cards seized in earlier raids in Bangkok and Chon Buri. Those cards were encoded with data from genuine credit cards issued in the UK, Boonlert said.

It looks to me that the cards and the information comes from UK! It is not cards issued in Thailand.

So no Thais involved what I read out of this article.

:D

slide that atm card into a slot in thailand and it doesn't matter where it comes from, data passes from your card to the machine, the problem here is the fact that thai banks refuse to be responsible for this type of crime so if it happens it is simply your loss.

thai banks don't care either way............................another type of corruption to think about

i keep reading more and more of this thread, a very sad situation....not a strange one in thailand, who knows right or wrong

but murder is murder, nobody has the right to take a life allbeit in self defence, i'm sure he had no warning of this....being stabbed in the back

some very brave natives

it's always good to talk, but maybe he didn't understand this either rip

A bit off topic but sort of related.

3 days ago I decided to scrub the inside of our steel watertank. After a while I relised it would be much easier to lower my 6 yo step daughter into the tank and let her do it.

Just as I was about to do this my gf told me she'd got a little shock off the pump casing, which is next to it.

I thought she was making it up but switched the power off to it whilst we were cleaning. Later I switched it back on and forgot about it.

Yesterday morning I walked past the water tank and my shoulder rubbed against it.

AAAAARGH ! a metal handled broom had fell between my pump and tank making a circuit.It turns out some how the 2 year old pump motor was some how faulty.

The shock held me against the tank for what seemed like ages (probably a second) and then threw me about 3 feet against my garden wall.

I dread to think what would have happened to my step daughter if this had happened when she was standing in a metal tank in 6 inches of water.

Needless to say I spent yesterday installing a new pump.

this wouyld not have happened if the tank had been eathed, do it now, run a heavey cable and drive a metal spike into the grond or connect the negative feed from the mains to the metal body of the tank, then if you have a dangerous failure like you had everything should be safe.

electricity voltage is a potential difference between two levels, in the west this is always potential between ground and what ever youi measure against, easy to understand in say a car where you have a very clear + and - i.e. 0 earth and +12 positive, domestic power generation is something quite different, power stations are earthed at source, so everything should be earthed if connected to the ground i.e. earth, but not so, it needs to be planned in a network, unless you have earth points expanding from the source the potential changes the further you are away, at home if we measure voltage between earth and live (uk) you will see 220volts, if you measure between the negative and + you will see same, in thland if you measure between negative and earth you will see a voltage, this is because the supply voltage is floating irrespective of earth, this means that safety is hard to achieve because earth (your feet) is not at the same potential as the negative, which means that metal surfaces thatshould be earthed and at the same potential as negative....are not.....this makes safety very difficult, because there is no true 0v potential

in very simple terms ........... it is extremely dangerous, esspecially if you are using equipment that is designed the operate with an earth connection as a safety feaature.

all i will say on this subject is the police need to determine where these phuckers are getting the card information from, I find it very har to believe that it is coming from watching people at atm's........there are just too many, i suspect they are getting info from IT people in thai banks and they are sellling it, the police really need to ivestigate this and publish the results, or maybe they don't want too............................i say again, there is no way these cards are being cloned from ATM's

anyone that has influence with the police needs to push this as far as they can

this is just another nail in the never ending corruption coffin of Thailand, the police really need to expose every aspect of this crime to the puiblic...............everybody. and lock people up, if you cannot trust a bank ... where are we

i for one will be very reluctant to put any money in a thai back until the prove to me it is safe

The other serious problem here is the fact that plugs can go into a socket either way, this is probably the most dangerous aspect of thai wiring, especially if you are using equipment with exposed metal parts that you may touch as routine, I used to get a tingle when cooking, if i put a metal spoon into the pot I would get a shock, reversing the plug cured this, I brought a neon mains tester with me from home and was amazed at how many things caused it to light up when metal parts where touched

western equipment is designed to function in an earthed 3 pin environment, when used here it could becom lethal

Maybe people in general are a little too quick to jump on others who maybe have less fortunate lives than themselves. Money certainly comes into it , but not neccessarily greed. I would imagine those desperate enough to smuggle would use up the money they gain from the smuggling quite quickly, as opposed to greed which suggests they don't need the money but are committing a crime in order to bolster their already bulging bank accounts.

In general peopole are also rather quick to condemn others whose lifestyle doesn't match their own. If people choose to use drugs why not lewt them , they know the risks. The way i see it is here we have another , young , life cut short because someone was forced to swallow something deadly in order to try and beat the authorities, who are always battling against something they will never win. You will never stop drug takers, drug smuggling , in the same way you will never stop smoking , drinking, under age smoking , under age drinking , under age drug taking , under age sex , the list is endless. So thousands of people die a year , not just from taking part in illegal activities (maybe some should not be illegal ?) but also from trying to evade capture from authorities fighting a battle they can never win. Very sad isn't it ?

Sorry. Can't agree. He was carrying filth to destroy the lives of others for money. He got what he deserved. Shame his female companion will be allowed to live.

I expect you would like to be her executioner .!!

You say he carried filth to destroy the lives of others . Probably no-one would have died from his cargo, but one thing is for sure . One young life is gone in trying to evade capture from the authorities. Wonder who kills most people a year , the authorities or the drug dealers? Still as long as the authorities can go on tv saying they are winning the war on drugs (not true of course but that doesn't matter) , i'm sure you don't mind how many young lives are killed by those very authorities.

Simple answer. Drug Dealers by a long way. In addition they cause untold misery from people who are adicted and their families and friend. You make it sound like the fault of the authoities for not allowing import of this filth.

define filth for me, i know there's a lot of things wrong in this world, this is way down on my list.......unfortunate that anyones life can end this way, somewhere he took a wrong turn, hey crunch share some of your wrong turns and let us judge you ..................don't think you'd have the ba*lls

you need 2000baht every day to live here in comfort, you could stretch it out with 1500baht but would have to find something cheap to do 2-3 days a week, in 2 years I get my pension at 50yoa, it will be worth 12,000 sterling per year, I also have savings/investments giving me another 6000 sterling per year, this is more than enough for most. My current spend rate is about 9000baht per week excluding condo rent.

On a serious note; people want to stick that in their nose or arm after its come out a behind? Have a look at the picture, its gross.

I've seen those in foodland, yu fry em wilh an egg and a slice of bacon

Yes it might and I know what you are saying but somehow if these bombings became a constant, I would not feel comfortable

How do you think the Londoners felt when those pricks from the IRA were bombing them?They stuck around.

Symptoms and Causes.

How do you think the Irish felt with a Billion sterling and a thousand tons of Foreign armour perpetuating an apartheid regime.

I was under the impression this was a Thai forum not an open forum of Foreign Politics where it would appear inappropriate terms are used to discuss a current situation in Thailand.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Newton's Third Law of Motion

Unfortunately some reactions are more unequal that the initial cause.

Mossfinn

there have been many conflicts throughout the world where borders where put in place to resolve ethnic/religeous difference, this wasn't good enough for some of the republican/catholic populous of Ireland, they continued to bomb and murder inocent people for many many years

and now where's all the money ??????

if you where to go back to the beggining of conflict in Ireland and where asked to propose a peacefull solution for both sides, I'd be very surprised if you suggested anything other than a border, it is simply not practical to say Brits out, there where both protestant and catholic families that wanted to remain in the then CREATED Nothern Ireland part of the UK, all those people died so a few could line their pockets and are still doing so, i lived in Belfast through the worst of the bombings and murders, what was it all for, because one side wasn't happy with a perfectly resonable resolution.....................................Greed and Power for a few that still reap the benefits today

i wonder why any prime targets to kill farangs didn't get hit! any ideas anyone? i dont think its political, perhaps more sinister or cowardly reasons might be the answer

oh right, a pissed of tuk tuk driver ?

At the risk of being non-PC, may I suggest you drink at a non-thai managed/owned bar if you want the real thing.

Personally, I'd also stay away from those places offering very cheap drinks, as the economics just don't add up, they can't possibly be giving you branded names or full nips.

the economics ? go to the top of this thread and read my original post, do you really think smirnoff vodka should be more expensive here than in many bars in London, I don't think so, 500% markup on a drink is simply rediculous, is it any wonder these people don't last long in the bar business, get greedy and you'll loose your ass, nobody will drink there, like i said before - I'd rather sell 1000 drinks in my busy bar with a 200% markup than sell 20 and they never come back. Keep the feet for dancing

I drink in a busy bar with resonable measures and prices, I still have a bottle behind the bar that I pay 200 baht to open.

A 500% mark up on a nip of smirnoff and coke would be 170 baht!

Where are you paying that price? Walking Street maybe. But I guess their rents and other overheads warrant it.

Pdaz, I agree with your statements but this shabbyness is bought on by most punters in Patters wanting the absolute cheapest price they can get, as you can see by reading this thread. This cheapness and the fact there are way too many bars (ie, the pie is sliced too many times) means quality has to go. But that's typical Asia, cheap and nasty.

Tammi, BiB= Boys in brown. Paying them is a fact of life in Thailand, especially Pattaya. How do you think they can afford those nice cars, houses, businesses etc on their salary of 5000bt/month?

sorry mate but you need to look again, if you are trying to justify selling a 550baht bottle of vodka divided by 28 = 19baht, you sell at 80-100 baht a shot...............one of us and it isn't me, hasn't a clue what they're on about and I don't even own a bar

is it that difficult to work out, tiger beer 70baht you buy for 30baht, vodka you sell for 90baht you buy for 19baht ???????????????

well i'm a dumb ass and i don't know shit............like all the rest of the people the walk past your door

oh and maybe it's 470% profit, <deleted> does it matter, it is still just stupid

sorry i'm being a little sharp but you are trying to defend a point that is un...................e

car.............usually safe mode of transport

driving.............in control mostly

car..........drunk driver....... lethal weapon

driving..............?.....kill someone

20baht taxi

lock him up

At the risk of being non-PC, may I suggest you drink at a non-thai managed/owned bar if you want the real thing.

Personally, I'd also stay away from those places offering very cheap drinks, as the economics just don't add up, they can't possibly be giving you branded names or full nips.

the economics ? go to the top of this thread and read my original post, do you really think smirnoff vodka should be more expensive here than in many bars in London, I don't think so, 500% markup on a drink is simply rediculous, is it any wonder these people don't last long in the bar business, get greedy and you'll loose your ass, nobody will drink there, like i said before - I'd rather sell 1000 drinks in my busy bar with a 200% markup than sell 20 and they never come back. Keep the feet for dancing

I drink in a busy bar with resonable measures and prices, I still have a bottle behind the bar that I pay 200 baht to open.

I would demand to see all the transations, right down to the finest detail, times places quantities etc. What's to stop someone in the bank taking the money and telling you it was withdrawn from an ATM, I don't trust the banks. Report it to the police also, did you use your atm in malaiysia, if so you can prove it was used in two different countries at the same time, it seems that the files regarding your cashcard are not secure in the bank and people (employies) are obtaining the info and selling it on, if i had money in a thai bank I would definately not have an atm card

(first of all I have no business interest in the Cherry resturant and I do not know the owner)

Just wanted to share what a great feed I had there tonight, simply superb, quality quantity and great prices

very very nice indeed

Its European food, meat dishes, seafood salds etc, also some thai, spend over 150baht and you can have a free salad

I had a lobster soup starter and a salad including lettuce egg potato salad pasta and more, then a ribeye steak with veg and fries, basket of mixed bread, and little treats in between, plus a bottle of water all for 305baht, very nice service surroundings, give it a try

(first of all I have no business interest in the Cherry resturant and I do not know the owner)

Just wanted to share what a great feed I had there tonight, simply superb, quality quantity and great prices

very very nice indeed

Most people who complain about businesses making money have never and will never have their own business. These people are usually cowards, too chicken shit to have a go themselves yet want to bag out everyone and everything around them. Usually some brain dead govt worker.

I don't think anyone here is complaining about business making money, as the topic suggests - some bars are serving small measures of spirits and charging ellevated prices i.e. being ripped off, I will gladly sit in you bar and drink whatever you have on offer provided I am getting quality quantity and at the right price, as a propreitor these are simple fundaments that you should be providing, any switched on customer will know what they are getting and from that will decide if they want to return to your establishment OR NOT, there is a balance and a lot of bar owners are way on the wrong side of it, this thread should perhaps give you some feedback from customers, if haven't got customers you have no business

as i said above, it is simply rediculous that we are paying more for spirits in thailand than we would in London

You don`t think the vodka in the Smirnoff bottle is really Smirnoff do you?

Usually it is the cheapest Thai vodka they can get.

Smirnoff has the non-tampering nozzle in the bottle now. It's impossible to fill it with inferior vodka.

That goes for most name brand spirits now.

I wish I could get away with "half nips,watered down spirits,inferior brands". My customers are too cluey for that.

Not every bar is ripping you off. Paranoia is a serious mental illness; see a shrink.

BTW, if you want to be really ripped off go back home and pay 3 pounds or $6 for your drinks, and spare us the whining.

well actually, in London I can get a double smirnoff 50ml plus mixer for 220 sterling that is actually cheaper than here

would you like to edit your post, nobody is whining

if people got a bottle of tiger beer half the size of normal I think the bar would be out of business very quickly, not so obvious with spirits but be assured, a lot of people are aware. I have several bars that i will go to because they serve proper measures, I have many many that I won't go, the bar owner thinks he's smart ripping people off, I would rather sell 10 double vodkas at 100baht than none at all

I have seen the SE P990i selling in Big C for 25,000 baht but it sells for a couple of thousand more from Jay Mart. I wonder does paying the extra 2000 baht give you any additional priviledges?

Also do most shops upgrade the latest firmware for you (to fix bugs) or do you have to do that yourself?

best money you ever spent either way, some people like nokia but smart people go for the best of the best, long time top spot and will still be hard to shift, SE have done it again and stayed number 1 ................been there for years

good luck and enjoy