6 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

 

Correction: Dr Dao was probably in the wrong in this particular part of the story.  That does not vindicate either the airline or security staff who were wrong throughout.

Yes, when he was told to get off the plane and refused he became a "Disruptive Passenger" and thus could be forcefully removed...

Still even being forcefully removed one would expect them to use no more force than necessary, in that situation Dr Dao would not know his rights and therefore think he could just sit there as it was a try on by the airline.  

28 minutes ago, Mosha said:

How hard is it, you sort it at check in.

Sent from my iris 505 using Tapatalk
 

Probably they had boarded the plane before the got a last minute instruction to find 4 seats...

Even if passengers were all checked in it could have been sorted at the gate before boarding, could have told 4 people they were going to up grade them, told them to take a seat near the gate while the load the rest of the passengers, lock the doors then say sorry we have no seats for you...

2 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Who paid the least. Dao no doubt!

I think without a policy or if they not being able to prove the policy was strictly adhered too does leave the gate open to substantial compensation claims...

I can see the compensation claim now... "I missed out on buying the winning lottery ticket in the Kentucky Lottery would have been $30mil"

This could open the flood gates for claims from other passengers from other airlines as well who have been denied boarding in the last few years.

What do think should be the Airline policy on who the deny boarding or off load first???

• Last to check in?
• Last sold tickets?
• Cheapest tickets?
• Staff discounted tickets?
• Other?

What next Airlines selling insurance to guarantee one is not denied boarding due to over booking???

11 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

UA and Law Enforcement have behaved deplorably, but I am having trouble squaring up the passenger refusing to leave, because in doing so he refused a law enforcement order.  As I understand it, this is obstruction'.  He is lucky not to have been charged, and had things not turned out the way they did I think he likely would have been.

 

Is there any legal bod who can confirm what the charge would have been, and if there are any legal defences to it?

 

 

This probably answers your question...

Quote

Is it legal for the airline to treat a fare-paying passenger like this?

Yes. The captain is in charge of the aircraft. And if he or she decides that someone needs to be offloaded, that command has to be obeyed. From the moment that the unfortunate individual in this case said, “I’m staying put”, he became a disruptive passenger. He was disobeying the captain’s command. Officials were legally entitled to remove him, and they did so using plenty of physical force.

http://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/united-airlines-what-you-need-to-know-about-overbooking-and-passengers-rights-a3512771.html

I think one thing that airlines may need to do is publish their policy on how they select passengers to deny boarding.  

8 hours ago, just.a.thought said:

They got away too easy. The punishment for printing lies in newspapers is not severe enough. It doesn't matter who the article is about,it's misleading the readers.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

Funny how the truth tends to bite some people in the bum...   Hope her claim that the accusations were untrue are correct, I recall a few British politicians have sued over libel only to be found to have purged themselves years later.  

1 hour ago, Dagnabbit said:

3 hours ago, sandrabbit said:

Just found this, interesting.

 

United Airlines is taking a beating for forcibly removing a passenger from one of its planes, but the passengers who shot the videos that exposed the incident may also run into some trouble.

 

According to the airline's policy on electronic devices, passengers are free to take pictures and shoot video as long as they are "capturing personal events." But the policy forbids passengers from capturing other passengers or airline personnel without their consent.

 

Technically, that means the passengers were in violation of United's policies and could face legal repercussions in civil court or be barred from future United flights. Practically, aviation and legal experts doubt United would take that step.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/04/12/videos-united-airlines-flight-may-violate-rules/100372674/

lol

 

So you think United will sue them for sharing the videos?

 

Another PR Coup?

 

Wont happen - not in a million years.

United want to brush this under the carpet as quickly as possible, any litigation of passengers for sharing the video is only going to drag it out for years, I am sure United Lawyers are trying to contact Mr Dao to offer him millions (where as the courts would likely award at most only award a few thousand dollars for the assault and it would likely be the employers of the goons not the airline who would be sued).

It is likely the airline can deny boarding due to overbooking and only have to pay a fixed compensation, big mistake was to allow the passengers to board before deciding to off load them.    

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I suspect (but could be wrong) that the victim's lawyers petitioning the court to stop any recordings being deleted has more to do with the chain of events - e.g. reasons given for calling in security staff to physically remove a passenger from the 'plane.

 

But agree that it will be interesting to find out the discussions between crew staff and the  'random selection' procedure applied.

Possible based on who was likely to cause the least fuss, yes, If I suspect how the the selection process went United are not going to want them tape getting into the public domain, possible some derogatory remarks relating to other passengers too...  me think there's going to be a lot of sackings at United.

This is going to hit United where it hurts, big time.

1 minute ago, ddavidovsky said:

You're ignoring the fact that the guy basically asked for it - in fact he literally asked for it. You're promoting victimhood even for people in the wrong and this attitude is turning society into a bunch of self-entitle whiners. This is actually the only serious issue here.

 

Perspective needed. Considering all the horror that goes on in the world everywhere, everyday,  one trouble-causing idiot being removed from a plane is... simply nothing.

I assume any Captain of a plane under Air Laws of most countries has the legal right to off load any passenger without giving any reason, (passengers could sue the airline for compensation if there was no good reason).

But the way he was manhandled off the plane was not done professionally, I assume the Captain was telling them to get it done quickly as every minute on the stand was costing the airline thousands of dollars...

Will United be counter suing Dao for holding up the plane???

14 hours ago, Scott said:

As I understand it, there are a lot of Asians who are upset and see this as being racial in nature.   I think United has a fairly prominent presence in Asia, so not so good for business.  

 

Whether what I have heard from Asian friends about how this is being received overseas, is correct or not, I don't know.   It is a perception and with situations like this perception is important.  

 

 

 

I am not sure if the selection of passengers was racially biased but the lawyers for David Dao:

Quote

... filed an emergency request with an Illinois court to make sure that United preserves evidence such as videos, cockpit voice recordings, passenger and crew lists and other materials related to United Flight 3411.

http://news.sky.com/story/united-passenger-david-dao-takes-legal-action-over-forceful-removal-10835055

Presume one question will be to demonstrate how they selected which passengers to off load, I am sure they will be looking for any from of discrimination. 

The CVR (cockpit Voice Recorder) would be very interesting as likely a lot of discussions took place in the cockpit, I do not see any reason for the Captain to leave the cockpit until things started to turn nasty.

In the mean time the CEO of United is being lined up for the job as the next White House Press Secretary... 

1 hour ago, thaihome said:

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

Possibly not, but once a person is asked to leave and refuses they are committing an offence, so can be arrested thereby reasonable force could be used to take them into custody. 

So you think that all alternatives to jerking a 69 year old man out of his seat and dragging him through the plane had been throughly explored before it was done? There are numerous non-violent means of getting someone to do what you are asking. Once some of those have been tried and it is obvious you must use force, you then remove all bystanders from the area before preceding.  It's all in virtually every police manual in the first 10 pages on confronting non-complaint persons.

 

As others have said ( including me), the Chicago Police obviously understand this which is why the officer was suspended.  

TH 

Keep your hair on... 

Should have read the snip to which I was replying.

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

1 hour ago, Dipterocarp said:

Thanks. I read elsewhere there is no legal right in the UK jurisdictions to use force in the case of trespass

Possibly not, but once a person is asked to leave and refuses they are committing an offence, so can be arrested thereby reasonable force could be used to take them into custody. 

My reply was to Dipterocarp and was disusing UK Law and the removal of a person trespassing, not necessarily on a plane.

6 minutes ago, Dipterocarp said:

Thanks. I read elsewhere there is no legal right in the UK jurisdictions to use force in the case of trespass

Possibly not, but once a person is asked to leave and refuses they are committing an offence, so can be arrested thereby reasonable force could be used to take them into custody. 

some countries need to look at the booking conditions of flights which do seem one sided.

Buy a no frills coach class ticket, no changes allowed or at unjustifiably high surcharges, no refund even though the may have sold your seat, yet they can just kick you of the plane just to give your seat to crew of another airline.

20 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Is it fact that the passenger actually got violent with the third police officer?

They were not police officers...

Just some goons with limited powers of law enforcement.

4 hours ago, Dipterocarp said:

 Say the polite Bobbies of Englund ask a person to leave private property. The person refuses. What happens next the policemen just give up trying and let them be?

Had this happened in the UK the security guard would have been charge with Assault and Battery, and/or even GBH (Grievous bodily harm).

A stand off whereby a person unlawfully stands their ground, in first instance they would be asked to leave, the police would be called and the police would try to resolve it peacefully, then they would be informed of what criminal charges they are committing and if they persist they will be arrested, if this was on a plane I think it would have been wise to deplane if not all certainly clear 2 or 3 rows behind and in front and all rows to the nearest exit. 

Fact is The British Bobby is trained not to let the situation get out of hand, first action would be to handcuff, this normally will have a sobering effect, if still refusing to move then leg restraints and rap him in blankets or strapping him into an ambulance chair before carrying him off the plane.

10 hours ago, webfact said:

any chance of leaving me alone?

many will, but unfortunately some people lowlifes just get high on annoying people, sorry to say the majority are farang.  

On 4/11/2017 at 1:55 AM, Sphere said:

She might even win the case if she gets a jury of her peers. 

does Thailand have trials with a jury?

I was thinking some Loony with fireworks at first, no reports of injuries outside the bus.

But there again more likely some radicalized Muslim converted drug addict with a long criminal history. 

9 hours ago, anotheruser said:

 

The hot spring I went to somewhere up around Phrao was filthy already. Nasty slimy concrete with algae and crap. The TAT has really convinced themselves that not only is it possible to polish a turd but you can sell it for the price of gold as well.

 

Somebody must have gone to Japan and had a eureka moment. To mention the hot springs here in the same breath as the ones in Japan is laughable. 

Where will they be importing the show from?

4 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Finder's Keeper's ?  Whatever happened to pocession is 9/10ths of the law?

 

More like 7/11ths of the law 

Just waiting for the next statement from the police, "Defendant has asked the judge to postpone case as she can not find a "No Win, No Fee" lawyer to defend her... 

43 minutes ago, sandrabbit said:

CNN quoting 6% wiped off their stock.

Time shareholders to call for the head of the Belligerent CEO 

(by the way I googled "Belligerent CEO", and came up with loads of news stories quoting the CEO)

Quote

United CEO says removed passenger was 'disruptive and belligerent'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39563570

fact was United could have just blamed the security people who are actually working for the airport and not the airline who have already suspended put on enforced leave their heavy handed security guy.

16 hours ago, balo said:

R.I.P United Airlines.

 

  

Second Third (CEO's Belligerent remark) PR <deleted> up in as many weeks...

After watching "Airline" the fly on the wall documentary featuring Easy Jet I fought their customer service stinks, but I bet Stelios would never say an upset customer was "belligerent"...

Would you not be up set when they called for volunteers and then threaten if no one volunteers we will choose and the next thing is some one is pointing at you???

I have volunteered twice (many years ago) first was returning from a work visit to Gibraltar.

I was on a 10am departure and they asked for volunteers to switch to the evening flight offering an afternoon at the Rock Hotel, when being brought back to the airport to recheck-in at 6pm my original flight was still on the departures board, "delayed" it only took off half an hour before my flight.

Second time I volunteered was a flight with EVA on a flight from LHR to Bangers, they were offering quite a good package with a flight with Cathy, up grade and and some cash, enquired and told to wait at some nearby seats for until check-in closed, just before check-in closed a EVA rep came across and said they had a seat for me on the flight so deal was off but I did get an upgrade.