hellohello123

Im not a long term resident but it would depend on regulations and reputations of certain countries or areas

for example in Australia, taxis don't rip you off

none of this "no meter" stuff

none of this taking you in the wrong direction

the drivers can lose their license and if audited theyd be in big trouble

the worst that can happen is they take you a slighter long way

if the system were the same in Thailand for example, i would never even consider getting ripped off

same thing here with the shops, usually items have prices on them so need to worry about getting over quoted,

obviously not at local markets etc

the men in Thailand are in Thailand because of the cheap and easy women...

Please. We weren't all lead here by the dick.

Thank you. Don't you love the sweeping generalizations? All. Everyone. Always. Hello.

Spidermike007

generelisations are true because they represent the majority

just because you aren't one of them, it doesn't mean its not true

im 10 years younger then my friend who looks slightly younger then me, does that mean the generalisation "older people look older then younger people" become untrue?

Before anyone calls me a loser for my comments, let me say I don't mind western women, I also don't think Asian women are tops

Western women are used to be put on a pedestal, they are used to getting attention, as a result their sense of entitlemebt is very high and their ego/expectations have also expanded big time

They go to Asia or thailand and although their.desirability may be still very high, or even higher, the number of men interested in them diminishes greatly for various reasons

What was easy in the past and an expectation, is now much harder

Or course they are not going to like it,

I doubt most will be able to handle it

Its like when western women when they reach early 30s,and are single, start realising their.attractiveness starts to.drop and they don't like it

Spot on. I have noticed as soon as they hit Thailand, they become Casper the not so friendly ghost. It freaks them out. Even thai nor ones are used to having so much power over men back home. They come here and turn irrelevant in a nanosecond. They simply cannot compete with Thai women, who are a hundred times more feminine than they are. So many western women are more masculine than the average guy. No matter how beautiful they are, they are diminished by their lack of femininity.

Spidermike

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

its got nothing to do with feminity

i think western women physically are more femine then Asias physically,

its mentally they aren't as feminine

the men in Thailand are in Thailand because of the cheap and easy women,

which other country can an old ugly fart get a girl 20 yrs younger while being of average wealth

no guy is going to go to thaialnd to look for western women

so with nobody there looking for western women it wouldn't make any sense for them to go there to look for a partner

its like a straight person going to a gay bar looking for a straight partner

i find western woman far more physically feminine then Asian woken,

its just that most western women age faster and get fatter quicker

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

By your definition, there are a whole lot of cowards on the TV forum, never wanting to admit that they're wrong in the face of evidence to the contrary. Speaking of, when was the last time that you admitted you were wrong about anything? Hmmmm.

I admit I am wrong all the time. In have absolutely no issue with that. Nor with saying I am sorry, in a heartfelt manner. I consider it to be part of what constitutes being man. What is so hard about admitting one screwed up?

Spidermike007

unfortunately many people even in western world cannot admit to mistakes

Ok I read now every post here!

But one question , for me still not answered !

Why is it nearly impossible to win a loosing face back?

That kind of people want protect there face , are also that one

That not can handle self criticism !

I have a friend at home very straight man, married Thai wife

20 year come here for more then 40 times!

He says Thais also ignoring our face, he don't care about loosing

There're face policy in Thailand !

He say what he think!

And when airplane change price half our before take off

He. Stand inside the office counter and complaining load

That all can here!

People that want protect there face all the time,

Live in a illusion of lies to themself, and proberbly phosical ill!

This are also the reason why loosing the face people are bull headed , and cannot accept a good meaning advice from others !

Using a signal horn in traffic in other Asian country's , no problem, in Thailand someone can point a gun on you! This fact should aswer all question!

In my opinion it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture itself

It's only a excuse!

Correct. The need to save face is the demonstration of ones own weakness, on so many levels. Real men do not need to save face. Buck up. Man up. Take responsibility for ones own actions. Saving face is the opposite of this, and it an act of extreme cowardice. I do not want to hear about the cultural aspects of this. When a culture permits a person to be a weakling, in the name of face, something is wrong. Courage my boy. Courage. OWN IT!

Spiderman, perhaps the concept of man up either doesn't exist in Asia or is considered as not very important

for example in my home country if a man got a girl pregnant and decided to run away, most moral people would say man up and take responsibility

i think the concept of man up barely exists so most people wouldn't think its such a bad thing

just a thought to consider

If you feel the need to be devious, you are with the wrong woman to start with.

Follow the advice in post #2, more appropriate.

There is nothing devious thinking about worse case scenario and making sure you can't be strung out to dry or in a position to be dictated to.

Too many people walk into their biggest commitments in Thailand with just their hearts and balls, with their brain in the clouds.

I've heard countless miserable stories. I've only been on TV for a week & there's some1 wanting advise on messy break up after 2 years & from what I read kiss goodbye to his recent investment because of no thought of, "what if".

I don't know about LTD's with farang shareholders being flatly refused land registry now but think your right going in with your head and your heart. Maybe you won't another 1 at the end of the bar with jai dam if it doesn't work the way you want.

My post was referring to "You need to make sure the wife does NOT now" which IS devious.

There is nothing wrong with taking precautions, but be open and honest about it, she will understand your position and probably help you achieve it. Userfruct is a common answer.

exactly! you dont drive you car around without insurance thinking, im such a good driver, it'll never happen to me,

why not do it for assets worth more then your car!

well, lets turn it the other way

if you went on a first date with a girl and you being the male were 30-45 mins late,

and you were both keen on eachother,

Would she be annoyed? Would you being late indicate anything to her?

so seriously, is it customary for thai people to be late even for their own job interviews??? surely not!!!

and im talking about professional jobs ie bankers, accountatns, and not 7-11/waitress jobs

If I ask my wife what the time is she rounds it off to the nearest hour. Eg: if it's 8.25am she'll say 8am yet if it's 8.35am she'll say 9am.

@hellohello123

Not necessarily. He would get the message (I'm quite practiced at smiles, with utter malevolence beneath ; and, usually, people "get it"). Remember, despite all the warnings of mass knifings, dozens of friends, mostly Thais are scared "s**tless" by our physical presence, our muscularity, etc. And that's quite aside from the general wish to avoid conflict. I would have "called him". I think it quite easy for farangs to do that, without saying a word. I equally believe that the situation will be remembered when dealing with others, but, of course, that may only mean when dealing with other farangs, rather than people in general.

fair enough I see your point,

however, Im not a big guy and I never try and physically intimidate anyone, nor do I intend do, thats for boofheads!

and your example is based on the fact that the taxi customer is a farang, the concept of face obviously applies to everyone including thais, and im sure that he would have tried that on out of town thai people for example

@hellohello123

I quite like that Thai way with the taxi driver - if we substitute "smirk" for "smile". And, maybe, our other hand is balled.

and because you've essentially said to him "I know what you are up to, but there will be no consequences to your bad behavior" so he goes unpunished for basically trying to rip some one off

Extrapolate that , and after a while, he thinks he is entitled to rip people off, and its normal,

and the next person who smiles/smirks and walks off, the driver who now feels he is the one getting ripped off, produces a handgun and decides to shoot you

yes thats obviosuly an exaggeration, but its not utterly ridiculous, you get shot for refusing to be get ripped off

not a way I would want to go

My first reaction was to moan about it, then after a few years laugh about it, now I know the way the average Thai thinks is very different from the way the average Westerner thinks. It's a cultural thing due to the Buddhism, IMHO. Thai people don't care if the person they meet is late as they a lot more comfortable enjoying the moment than Westerners, who are not taught "samadtee" or meditative techniques at school.

They will reply, "I am here 'now'", so what's the problem.

They are actually right as time IS an illusion.

My mrs used to think like you until one day she rocked up at Don Muang and was told the flight has gone already.

Any problems take it up with Thai Airways, sorry we cant keep the flight on hold until you and your upcountry shitkicker cousins decide its ok to rock up here, just coz you decided to stop off for a gobfull of som tam en route.

Just read your post and the face thread as well, and had a funny thought

Imagine a thai person is catching a flight and decides to turn up whenever they feel like it and get told the flight closed 45 minting ago

If they follow the true concept of face, they Dont lose their temper, they keep their composure even though they have been ripped off, while the airline staff don't tell them that their flight has already gone so the.customer doesn 't lose face in front of their friends

And so they all.just stand there, one side thinking the plane is still open, while the other side just hopes they go away and become.someone else.problem!

If you are looking for Foreign Men in Thailand, and are serious, I am sure there is somebody for you. Unfortunately, you may find it hard to get one that is appealing to you. However, if your income is good, and you have not other major issues, then I may be of service.

Do you run a match making service?

It is a difficult thing to explain.

I was stationed in Hong Kong for 2 years and face ( or Prestige, honour or reputation ) is just as part or the Cantonese / Chinese culture as it is in Thailand.

Yes they will lei even when they are found out, as admitting to you that they have made a mistake will result in them loosing face. If you are a boss of a company, then it may be better to get another Thai, who is in a higher position, to tell them off or discipline them. This way they will be disciplined but not loose as much face as being caught or told off by a Falang. Before you throw your arms up in aghast. yep, I know it may seem stupid to you, or to me, but it works.

Showing understanding and respect, even when they are in the wrong is very important. Others will see it and see how you handle it and this in its self will give you respect in their eyes, if you felt with it correctly. Yep you can say , bugger it, I don't care, and you can, but could cause an adverst effect for you.

Yes the Thais will give you a bit of leeway being a Falang, but things like touching someones head, using your feet to pick things up etc, are extremely bad manners and disrespectful, so understanding their culture is important.

Like a lot of things in Asia, you have two s=choices, bang your head against the wall and get a headache, or go with the flow.

I hope this helps a bit.

Yep I am expecting a lot of negative responses to this.

Showing respect to somebody who lies to you !!

In general, people who lie and get away with it, do not stop doing it.

The reason thais hardly trust each other, reason for it must be " face " as well then.

Generalisation at it best

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

A liar who gets away with it and continues to do it is not a generalisation its a fact. To stop doing it needs confrontation or introspection. Hardly a thai trait, isnt it ?

This is a typical face situation that I use but don't agree with

You get in a taxi and either use a meter or agree on a price, let's say 200 baht either agreed upon or what it normally.costs by meter

You arrive at your destination and the meter says 300 because it's tampered with or driver says "ok that will be 300 baht please"

According go Thais, you lose face if you go crazy or lose your temper,

The ideal way is to smile and say we agreed on 200, give them 200 and calmly walk off, that way driver doesn't lose face

Cultural difference or not, if someone is trying to rip me off, I'd rather teach them a lesson rather then smile

And as for me losing face, I.couldn't give a stuff what he thinks of me, does a mother lose face by going bananas at her child for misbehaving?

The concept.itself isn't ridiculous but it's used as an.excuse for crazy behaviour is just ridiculous

Take a look at the miss universe contests

I'm not sure that winning Miss Universe proves much and some people think that the main requirement is usually Western looks, rather than true beauty.

http://www.ibtimes.com/miss-universe-2011-contest-racist-312382

Good point, kudos to you! A tv member with some rationality

Tell me if you find any of the Asian contestants attractive, often I sit there thinking, Omg how did she get through

Anyway, as for western looks, if that's what was the only.criteria every winner would be blonde, silicon chest, no brain and a bimbo, which often usa is, however often the winners are your Venezuela, Mexico's etc

They are usually absolutely flawless!

I was going to say, I am attracted to both western and Asian woman, probably 50/50, give or take

I'm attracted to any woman who'll have me!

Haha!! At least you aren't saying how handsum you are and how you look young

I thought I'd try Arab /middle eastern food recently so I went down an alley way off soi 11 to a guy on a stall, thr alley was rather large and he was the only one there which was surprising

So I look at his menu and order a curry and bread, and I kid you not it took 40 minutes to come, there were no other customers and two guys working, they must have made the bread from scratch as it was a bit earlier In the night

I'm pretty patient but 40 mins for stall food is too long

Near the end of the meal I decided that I wanted anoteher piece of.bread, so I asked him how long will.another piece of bread take and he said two mins, so I order it and wait

I walk out and pay after 20 mins

Was not happy being lied to

Is this normal?

They stuck out because they were so much prettier than the locals. I have lived in Thailand for the last two decades, but holiday in Oz from time to time. . They are not "novel" to me.

They are novel in Perth and that is why they would have generally stood out there. Personal biases aside, if what you are claiming about Thai supremacy is actually true then it's very surprising that Thai women barely feature, if at all, in any international 'most beautiful' poll online. Never even won Miss World. Why is that then? It all becomes clearer when you break out of the bubble.

For all of those that go on about how western women are no good and Thais are so.gorgeous

Take a look at the miss universe contests

90% of the Asians are very average in fact a few of them.I.consider hideous, I reckon I would.meet at least one Asian girl out of.50 that I would consider better then the contestants, and they are supposed to be the.top of the top of that country

Also Asia.never wins and very rarely.gets to.the finals, although Japan went well recently

You take a look at Venezuela, Chile, Spain, and even America, Australia and they are absolutely perfect!!!! In fact my jaws are on the ground when they are parading around, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone

I'm sure many of the people with yellow fever wouldn't be as.highly.opinionated if most of.Asia wasn't so.poor where am.average wealth guy is seen as a millionaire, or you couldn't get a girl.20 years younger like back.home

Curious,

Any ladies on here are or know of being married to a Japanese man?

Generalisation. questions I know but

Are they bar girls, normal girls or hiso girls?

Do they speak Japanese or not to them?

Are the Japanese men considered above/below farangs?

Is marrying a Japanese, a status upgrade

Do they assume the Japanese are rich? If so, more then farangs

Any traits of Japanese men that are considered undesirable/desirable?

They stuck out because they were so much prettier than the locals. I have lived in Thailand for the last two decades, but holiday in Oz from time to time. . They are not "novel" to me.

No offence, but you have yellow fever

If you have been living in Thailand for years you should know that your opinion is biased when you have yellow fever

In fact I think I'll see far far more attractive white girls on a beach then Asians, not even a comparison

Had a dinner meeting in BKK arranged once with a Thai friend.

I arrived at the venue slightly ahead of time and got settled, ordered a beer and some nibbles knowing very well this Thai trait regarding punctuality.

30 minutes pass and he calls to inform me traffic is bad, will be another 30 mins.

30 mins later he calls again, "nearly there, crazy traffic, dunno whats happening, about 10 mins more!"

I call him back 30 mins later...phone closed.

I call again after 10 more mins....phone still closed

I pay the bill and go home.

Turns out he was in Chiang Mai when he spoke to me, but could not bring himself to tell me earlier that day that our appointment needed to be rescheduled. He was happy to spin some yarn until the 'loss of face' was too much to bear, then he turned off his phone!

Truly amazing. Still shake my head trying to work that one out to this day. Said event took place 17 years ago.

This should go in the face thread

Agree with the point that if they were meeting the king or royalty they would be on time

So does that mean if they are late without a very valid reason, then they are just being disrespectful or Is it just culture

I could imagine a girl who is going on a first date in Thailand and is super keen, and is dressing her best and choosing the best perfume, but being on time doesn't even register in her mind

So is this disrespect? Or cultural differences

If the Thai girl on a first date was 15 mins late, and the guy was another 30 mins later, would she be annoyed?

I can't speak for everybody but while in Phucket I was on the beach several western women in bikini's around and this Thai chick with a fantasic figure comes into view every farang heads turned to watch her some guys with girlfriends and wives drooling. I walk up to her and we started talking I find Asian women are easier to approach without fear of rejection. A western woman unless your famous have loads of cash or hung like a horse they tend to put you down. But if you are of larger size in the tool department they freak out Asian women are greatful for it.

That's because of the selection pool size and criteria

In Thailand there are few.foreigners, and.most are old, unattractive, the decent ones are fewer. Also farangs either have no standards or different standards and think the girls that Thais or other Asians find unattractive to.be attractive (and that's coming from the horses mouth),

Back in farangland, the women have a lot of choice, plus the media and society encouraging the women to think they are at the top of the food chain, their attitudes will stink

Before anyone calls me a loser for my comments, let me say I don't mind western women, I also don't think Asian women are tops

Western women are used to be put on a pedestal, they are used to getting attention, as a result their sense of entitlemebt is very high and their ego/expectations have also expanded big time

They go to Asia or thailand and although their.desirability may be still very high, or even higher, the number of men interested in them diminishes greatly for various reasons

What was easy in the past and an expectation, is now much harder

Or course they are not going to like it,

I doubt most will be able to handle it

Its like when western women when they reach early 30s,and are single, start realising their.attractiveness starts to.drop and they don't like it

Best way do the same with them and ignore when they lie. You know they lie that is good enough and you don't have to make sure they understood that.

Well...thats the crux aint it. Let the liars continue doing it and take you for a fool. Your example is ok in f.i.a restaurant but if people close who you want/need to trust for whatever reason are doing it, i guess confronting them with it is the best way. They did wrong by lying so for them to learn that it is not acceptable it needs to be made clear to them. But then they loose face. Ignore doing that and you loose accountability towards yourself.

Personally i dont care about my own face. I rather be confronted/critisized by others about my wrongs so i can become a better person of it. Thats IMO what is important in life.

eeeexactly, give in to their bad behaviour and they will never learn and keep on doing it

so if its all about face, do school teachers not get upset at their students if they misbehave in case they lose face??? I doubt it

But maybe a teacher can't lose face no matter what happens

I was a witness to a recent incident, where the waitress said tonight all drinks are 2 for 1, we got the bill and it wasn't 2 for 1

We called the. Waitress over and she denied ever saying it

After us calmly telling her that there were 6 witnesses, all confirming this

She denies even talking to us once the whole night (her English was good btw)

After, one of the guys losing his temper, the manager comes along and joins in the argument, and starts talking about about us losing face, yet waiters had lot the most face for being caught out by 6 people

Said waitress is now hiding in the corner with a. menu covering her face

Absolutely ridiculous, if face wansnt involved, then waitress would have simply apologised, or gave even a remotely acceptable excuse such as a misundesrtading

A manager wouldn't have even been required, however, had the manage gotten involved, they could have sorted it out far easier!