sambum

Putin has really screwed up this time and that will now affect ordinary Russians....not good for them of course !! At the same time.....they dont really fit in with the other international Tourists visiting Thailand, last year I Went to Phuket and tried to have a chat on several occasions with partying russian....they looked at us....not very interested....and continued their own party.....that was strange !! Can anyone explain this behaviour ????

Ignorant arrogance! I used to hold the door open for Russian familes coming into/coming out of supermarkets etc but not any more! Manners cost nothing, but most Russians I have encountered don't even know how to nod their heads as an acknowledgement of thanks. So open the door yourself, Boris, and I hope you drop your bottle of vodka while you are doing it!

Thais are punch drunk. They keep taking it on the chin staggering around the ring, shocked and dismayed that another opposition punch has landed on the kisser. They can't understand it. The Thais are befuddled. This all comes as a surprise. They don't read the news nor have a clue as to what is going on in the world. The Thais can't understand why others don't show up in droves lapping like hungry dogs for their sure fire "lures."

No problem! Numbers of arrivals down by 20% - just apply the usual Thai barowners' logic and put the prices up by 20% - Simples!!!

After reading these two comments I have a new definition for the word "simple"....................

T.I.C. (Tongue In Cheek)

Thais are punch drunk. They keep taking it on the chin staggering around the ring, shocked and dismayed that another opposition punch has landed on the kisser. They can't understand it. The Thais are befuddled. This all comes as a surprise. They don't read the news nor have a clue as to what is going on in the world. The Thais can't understand why others don't show up in droves lapping like hungry dogs for their sure fire "lures."

No problem! Numbers of arrivals down by 20% - just apply the usual Thai barowners' logic and put the prices up by 20% - Simples!!!

• New Year death toll rises to 190 on third 'dangerous' day

• Interior Minister thanks officials for keeping roads safe during holidays

From Thai Visa headlines today - I think some editor has a hangover, or placement problem!!

Bonuses are "earned" I thought, rather than a "right" ... but what do I know ... same with salary increases, performance bonuses etc ... you do a good job, you get rewarded, if they expect things (over and above the basic salary) as a "right", there's no incentive to work hard or perform.

Did you hear/read about the bankers' bonuses paid out in the UK a while ago, resulting in major banks having to borrow money from the British Government in order to "stay afloat"? Massive bonuses paid out to people in spite of them making bad decisions, and losing the banks millions of pounds. If they were poor enough at their jobs, they were fired with literally hundreds of thousands of pounds paid to them in compensation. Now that's the kind of job to have!

Makes one think how much their bonuses would have been if they had made the right decisions!!!

Paul955 farang/Falang means a foreigner

From Wikipedia:- Farang (Thai: ฝรั่ง [faràŋ]) is a generic Thai word for someone of European ancestry, no matter where they may come from. The Royal Institute Dictionary 1999, the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".^[1]

Edmund Roberts, US envoy in 1833, defined the term as "Frank (or European)."^[2] People of mixed African-European descent were called farang dam(Thai: ฝรั่งดำ; 'black farang') to distinguish them from white people. This began during the Vietnam War, when the United States military maintained bases in Thailand.

So a Belarusian is a "Farang" and is also a "Caucasian"

Thats rubbish^^^

I feel compelled to answer this even though its off topic, and I am in no means a linguist of the Thai language

Farang Dam just doesnt exist in Thai language. It would be Farang Piw See Dam...farang skin color black. Dam on its own means nothing.

Thai's say Nicro for blacks, as in Negro. For Burmese people they say Pama, for Cambodians they say Camboche (as in the old name for the country). For Japanese its Yipoon. For Chinese its Jin. For Koreans its Gowlee. For Indians they say 'Pi Kai Tua' Which is a derogitory term for a thing that sells peanuts (as the indians sell peanuts in isaarn and the Thais hate them).

Another word for black or dark people is Yahm, which means watchman or security guard. This is because security guards are almost always darker colored Thais. Thais are quite racist towards black people, even from their own country. Dark women from Sakonokorn and Ubon are considered quite low class.

For all the other South East Asian countries its respective to their country. Vietnam = Wietnam

Farang is for white Europeans and North Americans and White brits and Aussies ect.

So getting back to the OP. These people committing the crimes are farangs/falangs and they are scumbags. I cant beleive how much of this card skimming crap goes on in Phuket. Poorly placed ATMs are the main problem. Having a ATM next to a Tuk Tuk stand on Kata beach is hardly ideal

Are you saying that the whole quote from Wikipedia is rubbish? If so, take it up with them. Regarding my last line - I stand by what I said i.e. "So a Belarusian is a "Farang" and is also a "Caucasian" (I'm no geographical expert, but I do believe that Belaruse is in Eastern Europe, therefore I would assume that a Belarusian would be a white European)

Paul955 farang/Falang means a foreigner

From Wikipedia:- Farang (Thai: ฝรั่ง [faràŋ]) is a generic Thai word for someone of European ancestry, no matter where they may come from. The Royal Institute Dictionary 1999, the official dictionary of Thai words, defines the word as "a person of white race".^[1]

Edmund Roberts, US envoy in 1833, defined the term as "Frank (or European)."^[2] People of mixed African-European descent were called farang dam(Thai: ฝรั่งดำ; 'black farang') to distinguish them from white people. This began during the Vietnam War, when the United States military maintained bases in Thailand.

So a Belarusian is a "Farang" and is also a "Caucasian"

OK. Farang=Caucasian=People of the Caucasus Mountains.

What Countries are the Caucasus Mountains in?

Russia

Georgia

Armenia

Azerbaijan

Turkey

Iran

You Western Yurapeans please chime in and tell me how bloody wrong I am, 555...

OK - From Wikipedia (Not always 100% correct, but in this case I think they are!)

• Caucasian race (also, "Caucasoid"), a racial classification of human beings used in racial typology

• Despite not meaning White, Caucasian is often used to refer to:
  • White people in general
  • White American, specifically in American English
  • Non-Hispanic Whites, sometimes in American English

So a Belarusian is a "Farang" and is also a "Caucasian"

The anathema to any restricted society as such in the movie Game of Thrones is unrestricted contact with people from outside that society. While there may be language and cultural barriers between citizens and different nationalities, the ideas, behaviors, and culture of foreign tourists will germinate changes within the restrictive society as a natural consequence. That North Korea place such emphasis on cultural and educational isolation to keep its society closed.

Even the rigidly ruled China has now a daily and growing confrontation with ideals of participatory democracy and personal independence. For while it carefully controls foreign visitors into the nation, it cannot insulate its people from exposure to noncommunist ideology when they visit other countries with far greater freedoms such as Japan, Taiwan, Europe, and North America.

So I hope that Thailand tourism explodes next year, not from the Chinese who would be culturally the blind leadly the blind, but from the open and free societies of Western and Oceanic countries. Not for the sake of expanding the Thailand economy but for the sake of expanding the Thai mentality to a more free and vigorous society capable of controlling its own destiny.

All vry well, but Thais from top to bottom do not give a rats for the attitude of foreigners.

Excerpt from Post #60 (above) "I fear that Thailand will always be a 3rd World Country,"

The negative remarks of the farangs you read here are the result of cynicism.

I think most expats living here for a while develop some form of cynicism -

probably because Thailand doesn't move in the direction they would like it to move and because of the new-reports that are mostly just delusional.

But that doesn't mean, that we all don't wish the best for Thailand.

"Thailand doesn't move in the direction they would like it to move" Quite true, but maybe the cynical expats would like Thailand to be more accepting of the people who are putting money into their economy, would like tradesmen to turn up when they say they are going to turn up (or telephone if they can't make it), would like shop assistants try to find something instead of just saying "no have", say they don't know where a certain place/shop is instead of just sending you off in the wrong direction altogether rather than "losing face" by admitting that they don't know and ............. etc etc

Your level of misunderstanding is extreme. Most of us wish the best for Thailand. Though we engage in criticism, that is in no way an indication we do not love this land, or its people. There is always room for improvement with any country. We need a place to vent. Some with thinner skin misinterpret this as hate. Not the case at all.

I wouldn't agree with your first sentence at all. I do not misunderstand - I am just trying to put it in perspective. In most European/Western countries I have been to, if someone makes an appointment they stick to it, or contact you beforehand to explain why they can not attend. Not so Thailand - to apologise for not attending is "losing face", and in my experience, the best you will get, when they do eventually turn up (maybe 2 or 3 days later) by means of an explanation is "Sorry, busy".(Even though I have previously asked them to phone if there is any problem or reason they will not be able to attend.) I agree with you when you say that there is always room for improvement in any country, and in my "home" country sometimes "customer service" can go a bit far, especially when shopping/browsing. "Can I help you, sir?" every minute can get a bit annoying, but I'd rather have that than "no have", when I know fine well that the item I am looking for is in that store - somewhere!!! I too love this land,(I would not be here if I didn't, and have been living here for nearly 6 years, so I'm not a newbie!), and that is why I basically agree with the rest of your statement, but until Thailand makes a couple of major changes (Number 1 - cutting down on corruption, Number 2 - realising that apologising is not the same as losing face, and that sticking to your word is a very important part of doing business) I fear that Thailand will always be a 3rd World Country, but, hey, it keeps its prices down!

This year TAT have announced some terrible tourist figures. Given the new junta government and the high profile murders on Koh Tao then I think its inevitable tourist numbers will be up next year.

Up?

I may be wrong but this years tourist figures have been buried with all the other bad news, how often have you heard TAT downgrade its tourist figures?. This year they downgraded their forecast which is unheard of, this year has been shocking for Thailand.

Maybe this article can explain it better than me.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/128429/28-weeks-later-thailand-tourism-down-but-not-out/

Thank you. However, another point to remember is that under martial law, some travel insurance companies will not cover you, and I doubt if they would warn you beforehand! I think they would willingly take your premium, and then in the instance of a claim, point to the relevant clause and say "Sorry, you're not covered as the country is under martial law." And that could be a claim for something that could no way have been caused by martial law e.g. spraining your ankle on a Bangkok pavement!

The negative remarks of the farangs you read here are the result of cynicism.

I think most expats living here for a while develop some form of cynicism -

probably because Thailand doesn't move in the direction they would like it to move and because of the new-reports that are mostly just delusional.

But that doesn't mean, that we all don't wish the best for Thailand.

"Thailand doesn't move in the direction they would like it to move" Quite true, but maybe the cynical expats would like Thailand to be more accepting of the people who are putting money into their economy, would like tradesmen to turn up when they say they are going to turn up (or telephone if they can't make it), would like shop assistants try to find something instead of just saying "no have", say they don't know where a certain place/shop is instead of just sending you off in the wrong direction altogether rather than "losing face" by admitting that they don't know and ............. etc etc

This year TAT have announced some terrible tourist figures. Given the new junta government and the high profile murders on Koh Tao then I think its inevitable tourist numbers will be up next year.

Up?

And of course the speed boat driver fled the scene as usual.

Wrong! As per post above:-

Natakorn Meekwan, 23, the captain of the boat was arrested for recklessness causing death. The boat was carrying a group of scuba divers when the accident took place.

The body of Macdison was being held at Koh Tao health clinic pending an autopsy to be performed at Surat Thani hospital.

--ScandAsia.com 2014-12-22

R.I.P Another tragic accident near koh tao. What bad luck this beautiful paradise has had this year. My thoughts go out to the family of the deseased and the islanders who must ne in disbelief as another tragedy happens. Happy New Year 2015 koh tao it can't be worse than 2014. Can it?

I wouldn't call 2 backpackers being murdered "bad luck" and neither would I call avoidable accidents like this one "bad luck" (The speedboat captain has been arrested, I believe) Plus other unexplained deaths, and lack of investigation would tend to suggest that "bad luck" has got nothing to do with it, and unless something is done about it, you can bet your bottom $ that 2015 will not be an improvement on 2014

This is same as the song Hotel California. You can check in but can't check out

Close! "You can check out, but you can never leave"

Pretty certain there won't be many who'll miss this lot. And they've saved taxpayers in the respective countries a packet in prison / court / apprehension costs. Now let's just hope they rattle israel's cage next and reap a proper whirlwind afterwards. We live in hope

And let's not forget the Benefit Claims that they were probably "entitled to" before they left! Mind you, some of their surviving families will probably be claiming that they have lost the breadwinners of the family, so they'll probably be reaping some of it back. (Note : I did say "some of the surviving families" - no doubt some of them were shocked that their little darlings had gone in the first place!)

Anyone stupid enough to join in the first place, deserves the consequences.

Agree entirely! And it might just have the reverse effect that these murderers are trying to achieve by deterring anyone who is in two minds about joining them in the first place!

This was the guy, who according to the RTP fell of a cliff 50 meters into sea and drowned.

Despite the 50 meter fall, there was not a scratch on his body!!

Another fine piece of investigative work by the RTP!!

Or in other words, another case of sweeping under the carpet, what really happened!!

How can the sea put a scratch on ones body? I have never heard of it

Possibly by throwing it against the rocks?

Santa wished me Merry Christmas from his <deleted>

Thank you Santa and I reciprocate to all the Thai visa team.

Merry Christmas and a Happy and prosperous New Year.

Same to you Costas - we don't always agree, but hey, we're all different! Have a "Cool Yule!"

If you want...it is just as easy not to quote. Just post your comment and put..."In reference to (The name of poster)

That comes in handy when trying to reply to a long chain of posts.

Thank you very much - handy to know! (I was misinterpreting the meaning of "quoted blocks of text")

Moving to Forum Support but mesquite is on the money.

Thanks, but can't find it in Forum Support (yet?)

I don't know if this is the correct forum or procedure, but can anyone tell me why I keep getting this message? I don't seem to have used over elaborate language, or posted many replies, but I frequently get this message when I try to reply to a post.

Quote jdinasia..........

LOL

Fact : no connection to the RTP more than most long-term expats. I can only assume you don't live in Thailand if you know no police officers.

Fact : I can't find the source of your quote about the rather discredited Khunying Pornthip, but I suspect it is from Andrew Drummond, who we can't use here,

Fact: if in your conflating of the RTP and the courts you insist on endemic corruption from top to bottom; then the logical result is that if the defendants are acquitted it is because of corruption.

In other words, it is a zero sum argument.

Not very convincing.......

Quote jdinasia: “Fact : no connection to the RTP more than most long-term expats. I can only assume you don't live in Thailand if you know no police officers”.

Wrong on a couple of counts. Firstly you are wrong about me not living here because I do, and secondly on your assumption that if I lived here I would know some police officers………you are wrong again because I don't know any, nor would I want to.

Quote jdinasia. “Fact: I can't find the source of your quote about the rather discredited Khunying Pornthip, but I suspect it is from Andrew Drummond, who we can't use here”

A very weak argument indeed and I will list some other sources below, however just because it appeared in one of the capitals top newspapers, or has been quoted by Andrew Drummond, whose material we can't quote here, doesn't mean to say that you can't look it up for yourself, now does it?

Others with reference to Dr Porntip include: –

http://www.irrawaddy...estigation.html or http://www.schoenes-thailand.at/mordfall-koh-tao-porntip-kritisiert-unprofessionelle-ermittlungen/ or http://time.com/3487462/thailand-koh-tao-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-zaw-lin-win-zaw-htun/

And: “Police botched every forensic stage of the investigation so badly that it cannot be un-botched, starting with contamination of the crime scene through to DNA tests,” it said.

“It is the opinion of world-renowned forensic expert Porntip Rojanasunan, appointed as the country’s top forensic investigator by (junta leader and Prime Minister) Gen [Chan-ocha] Prayuth, personally.

The public believes Dr Porntip.” http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/13709-koh-tao-murders-retraction-denied-say-thai-police

Quote jdinasia: “Fact: if in your conflating of the RTP and the courts you insist on endemic corruption from top to bottom; then the logical result is that if the defendants are acquitted it is because of corruption”.

“In other words, it is a zero sum argument”.

Another flaw in what is a poor argument all round. If the defendants are found guilty then money changing hands could have influenced the result. If they are found not guilty, then obviously enough money wasn't paid.

Now a suggestion for you: – go back and review all of the police statements from day one and read them carefully and see how they contradict one another (take your time because there are a lot of them); then look at the photographs of the crime scene and how just about all and sundry were allowed to walk over it; then look at the “crime re-enactment” and finally look at Doctor Porntip’s comments on any website you wish, and if you still believe that the RTP have done a good job, then everyone who posts here will know that you do not have an objective viewpoint.

Q E D.

Congrats, you are the only expat I know outside of a few in Pattaya, that doesn't know any police here. ( BTW my connections are all military not police)

Sadly Khunying Pornthip is discredited. I know her and she is pretty awesome, but she also backed the efficacy of the GT200'S in a forensic role.

I have said from the beginning that the investigation is flawed, but I don't believe it is fatally flawed....

I'll get back to you on the quotes, but the onus is on the person posting the quote to provide the link.

No, don't bother to get back to me on anything as it is just not worth my time, and I will have to do what many others have done and put you on the ignore button.

You state here that, "my connections are all military not police", Yet a few posts back you state, "other than having a few casual friends that are police"..........So which is it.......which one is the lie?

To blithely state that Dr Porntip is discredited because of her support for the GT 200s shows your lack of ability to see past one mistake, and to not acknowledge her distinguished career because you need to support your case in this matter (pitiful)..........

This from Wiki on Dr Porntip.

“During the Thaksin Shinawatra government, she repeatedly publicly accused the police of abuses.

After the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, Pornthip supervised the effort to identify the tsunami victims in the Phang Nga region. She and her team were widely praised for their hard work and dedication.

Her life story and her work in Phang Nga were documented in the 2004 National Geographic documentary Crime Scene Bangkok.

In April 2010, she was appointed to the Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation or CRES (previously known as the Center for the Administration of Public Order), a military organization charged with maintaining peace and order within Bangkok and the surrounding provinces during the massive anti-government protests in 2010.

Pornthip's autobiography, which details her life and most prominent cases, has been translated into English and available through Amazon at. In the book, Pornthip reiterates problems with state authorities in obtaining justice for those subject to injustice, a theme carried throughout the book”.

On 20 June 2014, media reports stated that Ponthip was recently ordered by Thailand's ruling junta to take over the Thai Forensics Institute and to "make a clean sweep" in reorganizing it.

Yes she was a supporter of the now discredited GT 200 “bomb detector” as were the Thai Army, RTP, Air Force, customs and other countries such as Mexico and India, but I would trust her judgement (as do the Thai public) over the corrupt RTP any day.

And finally/laughably you state that "the onus is on the person posting the quote to provide the link"..........and you know full well that certain links cannot be published here and I have already pointed you in the direction of some information which supports the woeful handling of this case, but according to you, you can't read it because I haven't published the links. Now how narrow-minded and stupid is that!

As I said, read all of the RTP reports from day one and see just what a complete and utter shambles this whole thing is, and there is absolutely no hope of a fair trial for these two poor unfortunates.

Finally, as I said previously, don't bother to get back to me because I will apply a well-known saying that I believe applies to you: –

“There are none so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see”.

" ......rather discredited Khunying Pornthip," Doesn't sound "rather discredited" to me, and obviously a lot of people who are far better qualified than me to assess her capabilities, as per the instances detailed above.