sambum

Quote jdinasia..........

LOL

Fact : no connection to the RTP more than most long-term expats. I can only assume you don't live in Thailand if you know no police officers.

Fact : I can't find the source of your quote about the rather discredited Khunying Pornthip, but I suspect it is from Andrew Drummond, who we can't use here,

Fact: if in your conflating of the RTP and the courts you insist on endemic corruption from top to bottom; then the logical result is that if the defendants are acquitted it is because of corruption.

In other words, it is a zero sum argument.

Not very convincing.......

Quote jdinasia: “Fact : no connection to the RTP more than most long-term expats. I can only assume you don't live in Thailand if you know no police officers”.

Wrong on a couple of counts. Firstly you are wrong about me not living here because I do, and secondly on your assumption that if I lived here I would know some police officers………you are wrong again because I don't know any, nor would I want to.

Quote jdinasia. “Fact: I can't find the source of your quote about the rather discredited Khunying Pornthip, but I suspect it is from Andrew Drummond, who we can't use here”

A very weak argument indeed and I will list some other sources below, however just because it appeared in one of the capitals top newspapers, or has been quoted by Andrew Drummond, whose material we can't quote here, doesn't mean to say that you can't look it up for yourself, now does it?

Others with reference to Dr Porntip include: –

http://www.irrawaddy...estigation.html or http://www.schoenes-thailand.at/mordfall-koh-tao-porntip-kritisiert-unprofessionelle-ermittlungen/ or http://time.com/3487462/thailand-koh-tao-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-zaw-lin-win-zaw-htun/

And: “Police botched every forensic stage of the investigation so badly that it cannot be un-botched, starting with contamination of the crime scene through to DNA tests,” it said.

“It is the opinion of world-renowned forensic expert Porntip Rojanasunan, appointed as the country’s top forensic investigator by (junta leader and Prime Minister) Gen [Chan-ocha] Prayuth, personally.

The public believes Dr Porntip.” http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/13709-koh-tao-murders-retraction-denied-say-thai-police

Quote jdinasia: “Fact: if in your conflating of the RTP and the courts you insist on endemic corruption from top to bottom; then the logical result is that if the defendants are acquitted it is because of corruption”.

“In other words, it is a zero sum argument”.

Another flaw in what is a poor argument all round. If the defendants are found guilty then money changing hands could have influenced the result. If they are found not guilty, then obviously enough money wasn't paid.

Now a suggestion for you: – go back and review all of the police statements from day one and read them carefully and see how they contradict one another (take your time because there are a lot of them); then look at the photographs of the crime scene and how just about all and sundry were allowed to walk over it; then look at the “crime re-enactment” and finally look at Doctor Porntip’s comments on any website you wish, and if you still believe that the RTP have done a good job, then everyone who posts here will know that you do not have an objective viewpoint.

Q E D.

Congrats, you are the only expat I know outside of a few in Pattaya, that doesn't know any police here. ( BTW my connections are all military not police)

Sadly Khunying Pornthip is discredited. I know her and she is pretty awesome, but she also backed the efficacy of the GT200'S in a forensic role.

I have said from the beginning that the investigation is flawed, but I don't believe it is fatally flawed....

I'll get back to you on the quotes, but the onus is on the person posting the quote to provide the link.

No, don't bother to get back to me on anything as it is just not worth my time, and I will have to do what many others have done and put you on the ignore button.

You state here that, "my connections are all military not police", Yet a few posts back you state, "other than having a few casual friends that are police"..........So which is it.......which one is the lie?

To blithely state that Dr Porntip is discredited because of her support for the GT 200s shows your lack of ability to see past one mistake, and to not acknowledge her distinguished career because you need to support your case in this matter (pitiful)..........

This from Wiki on Dr Porntip.

“During the Thaksin Shinawatra government, she repeatedly publicly accused the police of abuses.

After the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake, Pornthip supervised the effort to identify the tsunami victims in the Phang Nga region. She and her team were widely praised for their hard work and dedication.

Her life story and her work in Phang Nga were documented in the 2004 National Geographic documentary Crime Scene Bangkok.

In April 2010, she was appointed to the Center for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation or CRES (previously known as the Center for the Administration of Public Order), a military organization charged with maintaining peace and order within Bangkok and the surrounding provinces during the massive anti-government protests in 2010.

Pornthip's autobiography, which details her life and most prominent cases, has been translated into English and available through Amazon at. In the book, Pornthip reiterates problems with state authorities in obtaining justice for those subject to injustice, a theme carried throughout the book”.

On 20 June 2014, media reports stated that Ponthip was recently ordered by Thailand's ruling junta to take over the Thai Forensics Institute and to "make a clean sweep" in reorganizing it.

Yes she was a supporter of the now discredited GT 200 “bomb detector” as were the Thai Army, RTP, Air Force, customs and other countries such as Mexico and India, but I would trust her judgement (as do the Thai public) over the corrupt RTP any day.

And finally/laughably you state that "the onus is on the person posting the quote to provide the link"..........and you know full well that certain links cannot be published here and I have already pointed you in the direction of some information which supports the woeful handling of this case, but according to you, you can't read it because I haven't published the links. Now how narrow-minded and stupid is that!

As I said, read all of the RTP reports from day one and see just what a complete and utter shambles this whole thing is, and there is absolutely no hope of a fair trial for these two poor unfortunates.

Finally, as I said previously, don't bother to get back to me because I will apply a well-known saying that I believe applies to you: –

“There are none so deaf as those that will not hear. None so blind as those that will not see”.

" ......rather discredited Khunying Pornthip," Doesn't sound "rather discredited" to me, and obviously a lot of people who are far better qualified than me to assess her capabilities, as per the instances detailed above.

Quote jdinasia..........

LOL

Fact : no connection to the RTP more than most long-term expats. I can only assume you don't live in Thailand if you know no police officers.

Fact : I can't find the source of your quote about the rather discredited Khunying Pornthip, but I suspect it is from Andrew Drummond, who we can't use here,

Fact: if in your conflating of the RTP and the courts you insist on endemic corruption from top to bottom; then the logical result is that if the defendants are acquitted it is because of corruption.

In other words, it is a zero sum argument.

Not very convincing.......

Quote jdinasia: “Fact : no connection to the RTP more than most long-term expats. I can only assume you don't live in Thailand if you know no police officers”.

Wrong on a couple of counts. Firstly you are wrong about me not living here because I do, and secondly on your assumption that if I lived here I would know some police officers………you are wrong again because I don't know any, nor would I want to.

Quote jdinasia. “Fact: I can't find the source of your quote about the rather discredited Khunying Pornthip, but I suspect it is from Andrew Drummond, who we can't use here”

A very weak argument indeed and I will list some other sources below, however just because it appeared in one of the capitals top newspapers, or has been quoted by Andrew Drummond, whose material we can't quote here, doesn't mean to say that you can't look it up for yourself, now does it?

Others with reference to Dr Porntip include: –

http://www.irrawaddy...estigation.html or http://www.schoenes-thailand.at/mordfall-koh-tao-porntip-kritisiert-unprofessionelle-ermittlungen/ or http://time.com/3487462/thailand-koh-tao-murders-hannah-witheridge-david-miller-zaw-lin-win-zaw-htun/

And: “Police botched every forensic stage of the investigation so badly that it cannot be un-botched, starting with contamination of the crime scene through to DNA tests,” it said.

“It is the opinion of world-renowned forensic expert Porntip Rojanasunan, appointed as the country’s top forensic investigator by (junta leader and Prime Minister) Gen [Chan-ocha] Prayuth, personally.

The public believes Dr Porntip.” http://www.mizzima.com/mizzima-news/regional/item/13709-koh-tao-murders-retraction-denied-say-thai-police

Quote jdinasia: “Fact: if in your conflating of the RTP and the courts you insist on endemic corruption from top to bottom; then the logical result is that if the defendants are acquitted it is because of corruption”.

“In other words, it is a zero sum argument”.

Another flaw in what is a poor argument all round. If the defendants are found guilty then money changing hands could have influenced the result. If they are found not guilty, then obviously enough money wasn't paid.

Now a suggestion for you: – go back and review all of the police statements from day one and read them carefully and see how they contradict one another (take your time because there are a lot of them); then look at the photographs of the crime scene and how just about all and sundry were allowed to walk over it; then look at the “crime re-enactment” and finally look at Doctor Porntip’s comments on any website you wish, and if you still believe that the RTP have done a good job, then everyone who posts here will know that you do not have an objective viewpoint.

Q E D.

Congrats, you are the only expat I know outside of a few in Pattaya, that doesn't know any police here. ( BTW my connections are all military not police)

Sadly Khunying Pornthip is discredited. I know her and she is pretty awesome, but she also backed the efficacy of the GT200'S in a forensic role.

I have said from the beginning that the investigation is flawed, but I don't believe it is fatally flawed....

I'll get back to you on the quotes, but the onus is on the person posting the quote to provide the link.

" Wrong on a couple of counts. Firstly you are wrong about me not living here because I do, and secondly on your assumption that if I lived here I would know some police officers………you are wrong again because I don't know any, nor would I want to."

Bravo, Xylophone - my sentiments entirely! I have been living here for quite a few years and neither I or any of my ex pat friends (that I know of) know, or have any connections with the police, and like yourself, don't want to.

Quote jdinasia: “Fact : no connection to the RTP more than most long-term expats. I can only assume you don't live in Thailand if you know no police officers”.

Absolutely ridiculous statement to assume that to live in Thailand you need to know some police officers.

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

Why? probably for self promotion, secondarily they may have expected to learn something from it. Why the dustpan twice? maybe that's all they had at hand, maybe they didn't remember all the details (they claimed to had been drunk at the time after all), who knows?, so again, the evidence presented in court is what will decide the case.

"Self promotion"? "that's all they had at hand" Utter garbage

You logic is flawed, "you don't know if it's not true" is a fallacy. I don't know that you are not, let's say, a bank robber, should I then assume that you are as the default position? Of course not, it's a ridiculous line of reasoning.

The people claiming that there is a conspiracy to hide the truth and stitch up the Burmese have the onus of supporting their claim, it's extremely easy to make things up and then ask people "prove me wrong", but the only thing that proves is that they can't prove their case using actual evidence and facts.

Okay, start with viewing the re-enactment scene (video posted on the LA site) which was unlawfully directed by the RTP. (You're probably aware that the RTP are not permitted to engage with the suspects during a re-enactment). Unless the B2 are very good actors, there is enough visual evidence to conclude that they knew nothing about how they were supposed to have committed the murders. for example, striking the David actor with a dustpan hoe is a fallacy as the actual hoe didn't have any of David's DNA on it, as admitted by the RTP.

I would suggest any reasonable person watching this would start to question the integrity of the RTP. On the balance of probability, two scapegoats were found to carry the can, and wrap up the investigation.

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

On Tuesday Thai junta chief and prime minister Prayut Chan-Ocha appeared to call into question the victims' conduct in addition to the perpetrators of the attack.

'We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image,' he told reporters, referring to the two tourists.

Police earlier said the pair had been seen partying at a local bar just hours before they died.

Sky News 16th Sept.

This statement was made the day after the murders by the prime minister. When I first head it it seemed an outrageous and insensitive statement to make. But now after all that has passed in the investigation, I am left wondering whether this was not just a stupid passing remark founded on nothing, but that the 'victims' conduct'/'behaviour' could be related to an argument that took place in the bar. If Mon was allowed all over the crime scene with the police, no doubt he also had plenty to tell them about his side of the story which may have painted a bleak picture of the victims behaviour before they were murdered. Pure speculation on my part of course. Anything for justice.

How does "pure speculation" benefit justice?

Facts benefit justice, pure speculation detracts from justice.

Pure speculation may warrant investigation, possibly leading to facts being discovered, which in turn may affect the outcome/justice of the case .

Ah.... That explains my tax dollars being spent on the pure speculation that the world is flat

...

Despite us knowing that it is not.

Ah, that explains a lot! I also would certainly not be happy if the government of my country was spending money on such a project! However, the fact remains that people originally thought that the world was flat, but some people (scientists, adventurers etc) speculated that it was not, and as we now know the outcome (due to their investigating the facts) that it is in fact round. (Or to be more exact, I think an "oblate spheroid" was how my teacher described it!)

FAO ADEEOS

Apparently,I have reached the limit of allowed blocks of text on our communications, so here is the reply I tried to send to you:-

I think we've made our points! You contradict your elaborate statements and try to defend them in an aggressive manner, and I was merely pointing out that your use of the English language and grammar left a bit to be desired. How you use/speak English is of course up to you, but it gives a good indication as to what type of person you are and I have made my assumptions based on the way that you have answered my post, Mr Angry Capitals! So Adios, Adeeos - I'll leave you to decide whether you consumed a total of 2 beers, or about 2 beers on the night in question!) OK YA? (And you started with the 'ya" thing " So ya,,, they WANNA get you?,,,, YOU'RE GOT!...." )

I'm so glad I was able to, "entertain" you, and keep you of some other poor bastards arse,, I guess everyone needs a, "hobby",,, But really Chief, try and get a life,, HHmmkay" lololol

Good - you've lost a lot of your capitals (Surprised the moderators didn't pull you up for "shouting" at me with all of those!) Still a few commas too many, but only one spelling mistake (of some other poor bastards arse) I don't really need the promotion thank you (Chief) and I already have a life as explained previously, but I'm glad that you are taking the English lessons seriously, and I am very satisfied with the improvement! "HHmmkay" lololol" (Whatever that means!) "back at ya" as you would probably say in your country!

Ya... Ya... just keep telling yourself that... you.. "win".... you might get by NOT getting yourself busted up by some barstool local... that's not as accommodating as myself.... that you choose to mouth off to.. telling them... "how things are".... I'm being nice... because I do truly.. "feel" for those like you... at the end of a life.. "not well lived ". Please enjoy the rest.. correcting those that in your mind are... "wrong".... Jeeeez... you make this sooooooo easy.... lolol

And.. BTW... I caught the.. "of" instead of.. "off"... tried to edit... but wasn't allowed to.... so Ya... Ya.. "got me".... lolololol... ALSO... BTW... you mentioned.. "my country".... do you mean.... the country.. that's pretty much responsible for you NOT speaking the German language right now?.... ALLOT of. AMERICAN BOYS/MEN... died to ALLOW you that. PRIVILEGE.... YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!!... LOL

It's not a case of winning! It's not a competition, but you are trying to make it into one, so just to let you know that I have never been "busted up" in my life,(bet you can't say the same?) This will be my last comment on this matter, so if you care to make a reply (even with all your commas/full stops!) you can tell yourself that you won, and to be honest, I don't "give a hoot" my red necked Republican friend, because your temper has "gotten" the better of you, your comments are becoming nonsensical, and I think you need to calm down (P.S. I've just realised the reason for all the commas! It's to give you time to breathe!) so toodle pip and all that!

No vested interests on my part, but thanks for clarification on your about face regarding the families wishes. I understand that some people have an intense need for it not to be the 2 Burmese men who are defendants. Such a strong need that they will ignore the only statements coming from the families. The only statements from those who were briefed by the UK police. These same people will ignore the fact that the families statements proved that sub judice doesn't apply. Thus we have no valid reason not to have heard from others.... But hey...

BTW - you do realize that you compared yourself to the RTP don't you?

Umm, trolling, baiting, I have to admit, you are very good at it! But why can you not understand that the way this is going, there is no way that it is going to be a "fair and transparent" trial? (Buzz words of the moment)

But there again, as you say, this is Thailand and the law works differently here - Prosecution 1 Defence 0 and the "game" hasn't even started yet!

do we know for sure it was not the guitar men?

Since then the police released them and then kept looking for the "guitar men", the only logical answer is that no, they were not the same men.

So now we have 2 sets of 3 "guitar men"? I set of 3 that they questioned and released, and another set of 3 that they kept looking for? Sounds like they shouldn't have let our guitar playing friend Sean go (sorry - I meant to say - aided him in leaving) He might have been playing in a trio on the beach that night!

FAO ADEEOS

Apparently,I have reached the limit of allowed blocks of text on our communications, so here is the reply I tried to send to you:-

I think we've made our points! You contradict your elaborate statements and try to defend them in an aggressive manner, and I was merely pointing out that your use of the English language and grammar left a bit to be desired. How you use/speak English is of course up to you, but it gives a good indication as to what type of person you are and I have made my assumptions based on the way that you have answered my post, Mr Angry Capitals! So Adios, Adeeos - I'll leave you to decide whether you consumed a total of 2 beers, or about 2 beers on the night in question!) OK YA? (And you started with the 'ya" thing " So ya,,, they WANNA get you?,,,, YOU'RE GOT!...." )

I'm so glad I was able to, "entertain" you, and keep you of some other poor bastards arse,, I guess everyone needs a, "hobby",,, But really Chief, try and get a life,, HHmmkay" lololol

Good - you've lost a lot of your capitals (Surprised the moderators didn't pull you up for "shouting" at me with all of those!) Still a few commas too many, but only one spelling mistake (of some other poor bastards arse) I don't really need the promotion thank you (Chief) and I already have a life as explained previously, but I'm glad that you are taking the English lessons seriously, and I am very satisfied with the improvement! "HHmmkay" lololol" (Whatever that means!) "back at ya" as you would probably say in your country!

A very sensetive case not only for the accused but for the inhabitants of Koh Toa who will have more of their beloved island in the international news, negative for all. I apologise for my offence post but only wanted to support the islanders who have lived through this tragedy, don't take it out on them was all I wanted to say.

"A very sensetive case not only for the accused......" is a bit of an understatement, don't you think? And to say that you " only wanted to support the islanders who have lived through this tragedy" is a bit of a contradiction to some of your earlier posts where you just wanted the case closed come hell or high water! Whether the 2 Burmese were guilty or innocent, you didn't seem to give a damn- you just wanted to get back to your diving and "friends" in Koh Tao.

As you have already decided they are guilty, then I suppose it doesn't matter if they get a trial, fair or otherwise

No, I haven't decided they are guilty, I'm waiting for the development of the trial and to see how the evidence pans out.

If someone has an opinion that differs from yours on this matter, according to you they have already decided that the suspects are innocent. But you are "waiting for the development of the trial" Pull the other one - it's got balls bells on!

How to spell corroberate.

I do think the Burmese are not guilty and for a reason.

I have not seen one piece of evidence to surgest they killed or raped.

They were on the beach that night, they have never denied that. But, there were many people on that beach.

I believe Sean was at the very least a witness to these murders, and personally believe he was involved to a far greater level. Why was he threatened with his life? Why did he leave the Island quickly with the assistance of the local police? Cover up that's why, not for Sean personally, but to keep Seans friends out of the spotlight.

I have stated that it would be an act of evil for Thailand to convict and execute the two Burmese suspects for this crime.

I would like to make a correction.

It would be an act of EVIL for the Thai and British Governments to allow these two men to be scapegoats for the murder of the two British victims.

David Cameron hang your head in shame, if you consider yourself a decent human being, please intervene. Release the details of the British Police Report to the Burmese defence lawyers immediately.

The two Burmese deserve a fair and honest trial. They are not getting that!

Mr Cameron, Please help!

You don't want a trial, fair or otherwise, you have already decided they are innocent.

As you have already decided they are guilty, then I suppose it doesn't matter if they get a trial, fair or otherwise

FAO ADEEOS

Apparently,I have reached the limit of allowed blocks of text on our communications, so here is the reply I tried to send to you:-

I think we've made our points! You contradict your elaborate statements and try to defend them in an aggressive manner, and I was merely pointing out that your use of the English language and grammar left a bit to be desired. How you use/speak English is of course up to you, but it gives a good indication as to what type of person you are and I have made my assumptions based on the way that you have answered my post, Mr Angry Capitals! So Adios, Adeeos - I'll leave you to decide whether you consumed a total of 2 beers, or about 2 beers on the night in question!) OK YA? (And you started with the 'ya" thing " So ya,,, they WANNA get you?,,,, YOU'RE GOT!...." )

Good, the quicker this is put to bed the better for everyone. Happy New Year Koh Tao. See you soon for another great diving holiday on yoir beautiful coral reefs and sun kissed beaches. Amen.

Good to see, that some haven;t lost their sense of humor and sarcasm!

No - he means it! He's a nutter who can't see the "clear and transparent" reasons for bringing the case forward.

I hardly ever go to he Soi 22 area,, But I AM in the Soi 4,, to Soi 21 areas nightly,, playing pool,,, I was in Soi 22 just last night to play in a pool league,,, I got there about 8pm,, and left about 12am,,,, they weren't around at 8,,, but there were about 8 or so of them about 2 blocks into Soi 22 about 12 when I left,,, They had about 3-4, "Farlangs" stopped,, going through their bags, packs, etc,,, which usually you don't see too often,, but it HAS increased!,,, Also usually, you don't see too many traffic stop in the Asok, to Ekemhai areas,, but those too have REALLY increased,,, They look to be very well organized,, And, "seem" to be making stop primarily for drunk driving,, Of course,, they're most likely searching for drugs also,,,, I do NOT have a problem catching over the limit drivers,,, but I DO have a huge problem with HOW they, "catch" them,,,, I CAN tell you from personal experience, what happened to myself, and my girlfriend in the Thong Lor area about a month ago,, I drive us to the area in the evening, for her work, and my pool playing,, I usually NEVER drive us home, because even after only say, 3-4 beers towards the end of the evening,, you're probably going to blow over the limit,,, This night,, I wasn't quite feeling well,, and beers just weren't, "tasting good, or going down well".... So over the course of the evening,, between about 6pm,, to about 1am,,, I had a total of about 2 beers, with the last 1, before about 9pm,,, So,,, 2 beers, over 3 hours, with the last one, 4, FOUR HOURS prior to leaving the area,,,, So, I actually decided to drive us home,,, We were waived over/stopped near Thong Lor area. by a cop standing in the far left lane, (which we were legally riding in, helmets and all,,, He asked me to blow,,, (whilst trying to grab the keys,, My girl quickly grabbed them out of the ignition,,, KNOWING there was NO way, I was going to blow over the limit,, I said sure,,, He punched a few buttons,, handed small, hand-held box to me,, with a USED mouth tube,,, while he was semi-not paying attention,, I never placed the tube IN my mouth,, but blew into it, while the tube was about 10mm from my lips,,,, i blew,, he turned back to me,,, grabbed it,, pushed some more buttons,, and said,, "You drunk",,, I of course said, "NO way",, as did my girl,, He REFUSED to show me the reading,,, He said, "$2000, and go",,,, He then walked BACK out into the left lane, to corral some others,,, whilst doing this,, my girl said, "get on",, and we promptly rode off,, took a side Soi,, knowing he was probably going to radio ahead,,,,, There is NO,, NO possible way,, that ANY POS, OLD, hand-held device, is going to read that you're, "over" doing what I did,,, NO WAY,,, besides the fact,, There's NO way of knowing, (since they won't show you them setting it up),,, If they don't just fake pushing buttons, resetting it, from a possible higher reading,, left by the PREVIOUS USER!!!!..... So ya,,, they WANNA get you?,,,, YOU'RE GOT!....

." So over the course of the evening,, between about 6pm,, to about 1am,,, I had a total of about 2 beers, with the last 1, before about 9pm,,,"

You don't sound too sure to me!

READ Einstein,,, 2 beers, between 6-1,,, the last before 9,,, sooo,,, 2 beers in 7, SEVEN hours TOTAL time frame, (got there a 6, left at 1), last 1 before 9, (so 2, over 3 hours, 6-9) Second beer.. (beer number 2), within that 1st 3 hour window, So 4 hours before leaving (1AM),,,,,,,, Need a calculator?.. And YA,,, pretty damn sure,,, Gotta feel sorry for those that can't do basic math, or just sooo lonely, they look for ANY reason to post something, ANYthing,,,,,

Oh dear - we are touchy! Wrong time of the month? I was being a tad sarcastic, but your over abundant use of the word "about" (6 times in 3 lines (no's 2,3 and 4 if you want me to be specific) makes me think that you're not too sure "about" a lot of things in your post!.For example, in your original post you state :-

" I had a total of about 2 beers, with the last 1, before about 9pm,,,". Then, in your reply, you state ",,, 2 beers, between 6-1,,, the last before 9,,,," Why don't you just say "I had a total of 2 beers between 6 pm and 9pm and left at 1 am" ? Simples! And what's the reason for all the commas? And no, I'm not lonely, (I have had the same Thai girlfriend for 8 years and get out and about the same as yourself) I just like to see the English language used properly (even if you are American (?), Canadian or Australian!) without the need for over-complicating the issue. OK YA?

That last full sentence above is comedy gold.

I also think the same of the headline!

Governments need to let people government their own lives. It is against the law to drink when drunk. How about addressing that issue. Stopping alcohol sales is not the right way. Prohibition proved that in the USA. People will drink during New Years. There can be no arguement here. THEY WILL DRINK. It is simply a matter of where they drink. Some stupid people will get drunk and drive. Some will die. It is a constant. Cutting out bars from selling is hurting tourism and business. That is the only thing it does. Again - people will drink, some will drive, and some will die - period.

Im all for letting idiots kill themselves. No problem!

Trouble is when those idiots kill or maim others who are just minding their own business.

Surely no one should have the right to do that?

They should just attack the problem directly, like they do in most European and western nations.

But I guess you need a competant and reliable police force to do that!

"It is against the law to drink when drunk." Sorry - did I read that right?

It's just a confidence trick.

When the 'committee' meets later this month they will agree not to proceed. Then they will tell the grateful nation that they 'have listened to the voice of the people'.

It's all part of the plan........they must think we're stupid. I don't care by the way, as I don't drink, but to suggest no alcohol sales is stupid.

Why not ban driving instead.

Well foreseen - the PM has just rejected the idea, and is another feather in his cap!

Critics of the police say that these activities are not intended to reduce crime, but are a means to elicit bribe money from unsuspecting and often terrified tourists.

Just out of curiosity, who are these alleged critics of the police and how have they concluded that the said police activities is a scam?

Think you're trolling!

I hardly ever go to he Soi 22 area,, But I AM in the Soi 4,, to Soi 21 areas nightly,, playing pool,,, I was in Soi 22 just last night to play in a pool league,,, I got there about 8pm,, and left about 12am,,,, they weren't around at 8,,, but there were about 8 or so of them about 2 blocks into Soi 22 about 12 when I left,,, They had about 3-4, "Farlangs" stopped,, going through their bags, packs, etc,,, which usually you don't see too often,, but it HAS increased!,,, Also usually, you don't see too many traffic stop in the Asok, to Ekemhai areas,, but those too have REALLY increased,,, They look to be very well organized,, And, "seem" to be making stop primarily for drunk driving,, Of course,, they're most likely searching for drugs also,,,, I do NOT have a problem catching over the limit drivers,,, but I DO have a huge problem with HOW they, "catch" them,,,, I CAN tell you from personal experience, what happened to myself, and my girlfriend in the Thong Lor area about a month ago,, I drive us to the area in the evening, for her work, and my pool playing,, I usually NEVER drive us home, because even after only say, 3-4 beers towards the end of the evening,, you're probably going to blow over the limit,,, This night,, I wasn't quite feeling well,, and beers just weren't, "tasting good, or going down well".... So over the course of the evening,, between about 6pm,, to about 1am,,, I had a total of about 2 beers, with the last 1, before about 9pm,,, So,,, 2 beers, over 3 hours, with the last one, 4, FOUR HOURS prior to leaving the area,,,, So, I actually decided to drive us home,,, We were waived over/stopped near Thong Lor area. by a cop standing in the far left lane, (which we were legally riding in, helmets and all,,, He asked me to blow,,, (whilst trying to grab the keys,, My girl quickly grabbed them out of the ignition,,, KNOWING there was NO way, I was going to blow over the limit,, I said sure,,, He punched a few buttons,, handed small, hand-held box to me,, with a USED mouth tube,,, while he was semi-not paying attention,, I never placed the tube IN my mouth,, but blew into it, while the tube was about 10mm from my lips,,,, i blew,, he turned back to me,,, grabbed it,, pushed some more buttons,, and said,, "You drunk",,, I of course said, "NO way",, as did my girl,, He REFUSED to show me the reading,,, He said, "$2000, and go",,,, He then walked BACK out into the left lane, to corral some others,,, whilst doing this,, my girl said, "get on",, and we promptly rode off,, took a side Soi,, knowing he was probably going to radio ahead,,,,, There is NO,, NO possible way,, that ANY POS, OLD, hand-held device, is going to read that you're, "over" doing what I did,,, NO WAY,,, besides the fact,, There's NO way of knowing, (since they won't show you them setting it up),,, If they don't just fake pushing buttons, resetting it, from a possible higher reading,, left by the PREVIOUS USER!!!!..... So ya,,, they WANNA get you?,,,, YOU'RE GOT!....

." So over the course of the evening,, between about 6pm,, to about 1am,,, I had a total of about 2 beers, with the last 1, before about 9pm,,,"

You don't sound too sure to me!

Thank you. And where's the scam in the OP story?

I wouldn't like to be forced to pee in a box - but I would never call it "scam"

It is a scam if they say you are positive ( even if you are not) and then demand a "fine"!

If the goal is to avoid road killing, why not....enforce the law???

The law is to "don't drink and drive", not "don't drink"

Banning drink to ensure people don't drink and drive is like banning matches because some people commit arson.

Edit - just realised this may well be the point you're making aaacorp, apologies if so, I initially read your comment as 'If the goal is to avoid road killing, why not?... enforce the law!'

Amazing how the placing of a "?" can drastically alter the meaning of a statement!