Gecko123

It's funny you mention that a movie should be made. This case has some interesting parallels to the plot lines in movies like Dial M for Murder, The Postman Always Rings Twice, and A Perfect Murder (staring Michael Douglas & Gwyneth Paltrow). But I'm worried that in this case, unlike in the movies, the truth may never fully come to light.

You make some interesting and valid points. But if you go with the theory that he freely gave 290K to Lak prior to his death, where does that leave us? Bestowing hefty sums of money (both after the cattle and land sales) on a woman who is married? What was his end game? I know how Thai guys think. Yes, they can fall head over heels in love with a woman, but when you're talking that kind of money (and it's been reported that aside from these one-off sales he typically only earned 6-7,000 baht per month), a Thai guy, almost out of necessity, would have to give at least some consideration to eventually getting a financial return on his investment. Maybe he had finally gotten her to agree that if he gave her this final gift of money, she would let him plug her farang husband and keep her mouth shut and he would get to move in to the house, and they would live happily ever after. With money possibly changing hands, his coming to the house at night, pulling a gun, and almost certainly knowing she was home at the time, it just feels like some Rubicon had been crossed, some firm decision was made which there was no turning back from, and I suspect that the plan was Rudolph wasn't supposed to be in the picture after that night. It could be that armed robbery was just the cover for a murder. The plan may have been for the killer to have slipped away in the dark never to be identified. It may be only because Rudolf survived and was able to report what the intruder said that Setiyon has inadvertently ended up being accused of armed robbery. The plan could well have been for Lak (and maybe the next door neighbors) to report that they heard some unknown assailant yell "money, money, money" before shots rang out, and he fled, in order to throw the police off as to the true motive.

Hang on a sec. He received the money on October 1rst (according to the buyers). According to her, they didn't have any contact on October 2nd, except that they may have spoken on the phone around 2:30PM. I don't think anybody has admitted so far that they actually had physical contact that day. So if the explanation is that Setiyon gave it to her before he died, the question is naturally going to be "when did he give it to her?" And if the answer is "he gave me the money later in the day after he called me at 2:30PM" well, that means she had additional contact with him closer and closer to the time he showed up at 10:30 at night at her house armed with a fully loaded revolver. It will also mean that she has repeatedly changed her story, never a good sign in the eyes of the police. As the last point of contact between Lak and Setiyon keeps getting closer and closer to 10:30 PM, this is increasing the likelihood that she knew what his motive for coming to the house was. If the fingerprints of the couple who purchased the land from Setiyon are on the bail money, I don't think there's going to be a quick and easy way to explain that away. Keep in mind that the window of time for when he could have given her the money is getting smaller and smaller. If she says she got the money around 4:30PM on Oct 2nd, she better hope his cell phone and her cell phone triangulate to the same area at that time, or there are witnesses who can attest to their meeting, or that his mother and ex-wife don't come back and say "that's impossible, we were all enjoying a plate of som tam together at the house at 4:30 PM, and there are 10 witnesses who can verify this."

I still think my idea of checking the bail money paid by the wife to see if the fingerprints of the husband/wife who bought the land from Setiyon the day before, if I may say so myself, is brilliant. If their prints can be found on the bills used to pay the bail, this would link this money to Setiyon, and Lak would have to explain how she came into possession of this money. I have even gone so far as to call both the Udon Thani police department and Amarin TV in an attempt to share this idea. Some hack assigned to front desk duty at the Udon Thani police station hung up the phone twice on me, but I was finally able to reach someone at Amarin TV who promised to relay the email I sent to the reporter assigned to this case. I'm surprised more members of Thai Visa's armchair detective squad didn't give me a high-five or two for coming up with this idea (totally independently!), but it's all copacetic, no hard feelings. At this point, I just want to say again that if the finger prints of the buyers (who paid Setiyon for the land the day before he died) are found on the bail money, that would link the bail money to Setiyon, and could well provide the leverage needed to crack this case wide open.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The wife's fingerprints on the bail money wouldn't be significant, as she's the one who paid the bail money. But if the land buyer's prints are on the bail money, that ties the bail money to Setiyon, and the wife would have to explain how she came into possession of the money.

This case is really shrouded in mystery. If there was some sort of scheme in play, it obviously didn't work out as planned. The wife's denial of her relationship with Setiyon when the cops initially questioned her tells me that she is not criminally sophisticated and the sudden turn of events has caught her off guard and forced to make stuff up on the fly. Another example of this, is that when she was confronted with evidence that she had called Setiyon on the day of the incident, she attempted to claim that her phone had gone missing that day and that "there are witnesses who can confirm it." That's why I think, if she was in possession of the 290,000 baht that Seityon had received from the land sale, her lack of criminal sophistication and with her being overwhelmed by the sudden turn of events, she would not have had the wherewithal in the heat of the moment to consider the possibility that the land buyer's fingerprints might be on the money she used to pay Rudolph's bail.

Amarin news report (see post 2 posts above) summarize the suspicious elements of the case as follows: 1. Wife had contact with Setiyon on day he died 2. Fight between Rudolph and Setiyon resulted in serious injuries to Setiyon but no wounds to Rudolph 3. No damage to any kitchenware or furniture despite serious altercation 4. Once Rudolph got the gun away from intruder, why didn't he use it to control Sethiyon 5. Why did Lak deny having a close relationship with Setiyon when police questioned her initially? 6. What happened to money that Setiyon received from sale of land? Getting back to the land sale and the missing money, bail of 300,000 baht was paid for Rudolph. Somewhere between 250,000 and 290,000 baht may have been on Setiyon's person at the time of his death. I'm sure the cops are considering the possibility that the missing money was used to pay Rudolph's bail. If the fingerprints of the couple who bought the one rai of land from Setiyon are on the bail money, that would be highly incriminating and would crack this case wide open.

The husband and wife who bought the one rai of land from Setiyon for 290,000 baht have come forward. They've produced a copy of the sales contract and they're saying they gave Setiyon 40,000 baht as a down payment on September 13th, and the balance of 250,000 on October 1rst, the day before he was killed. The 250,000 has reportedly gone missing. The cops should check the bills that were used to pay Rudolf's 300,000 bail for the fingerprints of the people who bought the land from Setiyon! If their fingerprints are on the bail money that was paid, that would be a huge break through on the case!

I've followed crime news in the US, France, and Thailand for decades, and this is one of the most intriguing mystery-shrouded cases I can recall. I think it is going to be very difficult to get to the bottom of what motivated Nit to come to the house that night, and to what extent Lak was involved.

@DogmatixRegarding Rudolph's Thai, I admit that after watching his interviews in English I began to have doubts about how good his Thai was as well, but I did see an interview with a neighbor of his who said he could speak Thai, but maybe the neighbor was just being charitable.

I don't put much stock in the theory that maybe 'maa nii' was mistaken for 'money'. These two words may sound similar to the untrained ear, but Rudolph has been living in country for over 10 years, and reportedly spoke Thai. Thais pronounce 'money' as MUN-ni with emphasis on the first syllable, whereas 'maa nii') is pronounced maa-NII with the emphasis on the second syllable (because it is high tone). I don't think the hand gestures you would use to command someone to 'come here' would be the same hand gestures you would use you if you were demanding money from someone at gun point. Also, he reportedly said "money, money, money" immediately after he had jumped over the 120 cm high exterior wall. If he had been commanding Rudolph to "come here" that would mean he was telling him to get up from where he was sitting and move towards the intruder who was standing just inside the exterior wall. That doesn't make much sense to me.

The police appear to be doing an excellent job of investigating this high profile case. There appear to be some issues about blood on the wall adjacent to where the intruder was subdued, as well as whether the intruder's injuries are consistent with the explanation of what happened, especially the blow which reportedly ruptured his liver and led to his death. The police have a legal obligation to investigate these issues. They are also actively investigating the deceased's relationship with the Swiss guy's wife and talking to his family about everything they know about their relationship. The problem is that if there was a conspiracy between the Thai guy and Rudolph's wife to do something nefarious to Rudolf (whether robbery or murder), now that the Thai guy is dead, the only hope of discovering the true motive may depend on whether either the Thai guy or the Swiss guy's wife confided in someone about what they planned to do. I am sure the police are extremely suspicious about what role their relationship played in leading up to the events that occurred, but in the absence of finding a witness, or other evidence that points to a conspiracy between them, this may be an extremely difficult case to solve.

It's entirely possible that I'm the one who is confused, but I believe the quote from the OP news article that "she (the mother of the deceased) claimed he had already got 40,000 baht from her" is a reference to the mother's claim that 40,000 baht that her son was in possession of had gone missing, not that the Swiss guy's wife was giving her son money. At any rate, in the below Amarin TV news clip at the 8:55 mark the mother recounts that when the son sold a bunch of cattle a few years ago for 522,000 baht, he gave the Swiss guy's wife a substantial portion of the proceeds, and at the 10:38 mark she can be heard saying that "whenever he sold anything, he gave the Swiss guy's wife all the money." This is what I was basing my comments on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-rf_kTmDCI&feature=emb_imp_woyt

thoughts Rudolph must be thinking.... ...the deceased's family lives just 900 meters away...and they're accusing you and your wife of slandering their now dead son with a concocted coverup story that he was trying to rob you. They're also claiming your wife benefited from generous gifts of money that the dead son bestowed on your wife. The deceased had children and a mother who were to one degree or another depending on him. One way or another, they're probably telling themselves Nit would still be alive if it wasn't for her. All the makings of a blood feud. It's probably gonna take a substantial sum to make things right...wonder whose pocket the money's gonna come out of ...? for sure the deceased's family are eyeing the 300K bail money...probably thinking there's a whole lot more where that came from, too... ...just found out the wife has been knocking boots with her boyfriend down the road for the last several years. Holy plaa tuu! How could I have been so gullible to believe she was just chatting and drinking and playing dominoes with her girlfriends all this time? And the matter-of-fact way she pretended Nit was just a casual acquaintance when she was explaining everything to the police? Sends a shiver up my spine...How could I ever trust her again? ...Nit and Lek must have loved one another...what was their long term plan? Was she in on it?...they're saying she talked to him the same day he came to the house! Was he there to kill me? Did he say 'money, money, money' just loud enough so my wife could tell the police she heard him say this so everyone would think my murder was a robbery-gone-bad? my wife could have recognized him easily... why wasn't he worried that he might be recognized by her??? ...what the blank am I going to do now? where am I gonna go? my whole life's been turned upside down... Hey, Rudolph, if you're reading this PM me if I can help in any way. I can only imagine what you're going through, brother. Hang tough, you'll make it through this.

Per the video I posted above, the Thai guy's family (his mother and his former wife) were fully aware of the Thai guy's infatuation with the Swiss guy's wife. (Note: it's unclear whether they're calling her his former wife because he previously divorced her, or because he's now dead). They're alleging that the Thai guy sold 12 head of cattle over time for a total of 522,000 baht and gave 488,000 of it to the Swiss guy's wife and only 40,000 to the Thai guy's wife. It sounds like the mother and wife had a detailed knowledge of the Thai guy's interactions with the Swiss guy's wife, and they're calling on her to be more truthful. The mother's saying that she warned her son over and over about his involvement with her but that he was madly in love with her and wouldn't listen. It sounds like they're super <deleted> because, according to them, the Swiss guy's wife received all this money from the Thai guy and now he - a key provider - is dead. I'm guessing that there's going to be tremendous pressure from the Thai guy's family for the Swiss guy's wife to reimburse the money they allege she received from him. In other words, even though the Swiss guy was probably totally in the dark about all of this Peyton Place intrigue, and likely lawfully defended himself, he's still probably going to have to shell out a substantial amount of money one way or another. He's either going to have to negotiate a hefty settlement with the Thai guy's family to clean up the mess his wife made, and/or divorce his wife for infidelity and walk away from all of his real property in Udon Thani. What a [expletive deleted] deal for the Swiss guy. My heart really goes out to him.

Sections of Thai Penal Code which applies to right of self-defense: Section 67 Any person shall not be punished for committing any offence on account of necessity: When such person is under compulsion or under the influence of a force such that such person cannot avoid or resist; or When such person acts in order to make himself or another person to escape from an imminent danger which could not be avoided by any other means, and which such person did not cause to exist through his own fault. Provided that no more is done than is reasonably necessary under the circumstances. Section 68 Any person committing any act for defending his own right or other person's right in order to except from a danger arising out of violence tortuous to the law and such danger to be imminent, if reasonably having committed under the circumstance, such act is a lawful defense, and such person shall not have a guilt. Section 69 In the cases as provided in Sections 67 and 68, if the act committed is in excess of what is reasonable under the circumstances or in excess of what is necessary, or in excess of what is necessary for the defense, the Court may inflict less punishment to any extent than that provided by the law for such offence. But, if such act occurs out of excitement, fright or fear, the Court may not inflict any punishment at all.

Interesting tidbits gleaned from Thai language press reports... ...Swiss guy out on 300,000 baht bail ...wife had been out that night drinking, had a headache, went to bed ...guy lay tied up for "almost an hour" before police arrived, Swiss guy and wife assumed he was unconscious while awaiting arrival of police ...neighbors describe Rudolph as "nice man," who everybody knew, speaks Thai but didn't say much to people beyond friendly greetings ...neighbors expressing sympathy for Swiss guy's ordeal ...mother of deceased Thai guy doesn't believe her son was there to commit robbery. Describes son as guy who liked to drink, party (pai thiaw) and had a lot of friends. Below video has an updated re-enactment which is more detailed, and also has footage of Swiss guy talking to media in English:

The revolver was fully loaded... I'm starting to wonder if the Thai guy wasn't there to kill the Swiss guy in order to get him out of the way. Probably with the wife's participation. Here's my reasoning: The wife knew the Thai guy and would have been able to identify him had she been present for the attempted robbery/love triangle murder. So if the wife didn't have advanced knowledge of the Thai guy's plan, the Thai guy was taking a huge risk of possibly being recognized by her (and reported to the police) by committing the robbery at the house. Had the wife seen the robbery and been able to identify the assailant, the Thai guy would have had few options other than to kill her in order to shut her up as a witness. The only way attempting a robbery at the Swiss guy's residence while his love interest was on the premises makes sense is if he is absolutely confident that she is not going to identify him or report him to the police. By the wife's own admission, he had unrequited romantic interests in her, but the news is reporting rumors that she and the Thai guy may have been having a multi-year affair. It remains to be seen what the truth is, but I'm asking myself, what would make the Thai guy so confident that the wife, who he presumably had no reason not to believe was on the premises at the time, wouldn't see him, be able to identify him, and report him to the police? Would he be that confident if he only knew her as a casual acquaintance whose romantic interests had been rebuffed? Or would that confidence come after you had been involved in a multi-year affair with a woman? So if she wasn't in on the plan for him to come to the house and attempt a robbery or use robbery-gone-bad as a cover for murdering him to get him out of the way for romantic reasons, he was risking the possibility that he would have had to have murdered his love interest in order to avoid being identified as the perpetrator of the crime. It seems very unlikely that he would risk that, which strongly suggests to me that the wife may have had foreknowledge of his plan. What that plan was is still unknown, but, again, the revolver was loaded with six bullets...

Police may be posturing in front of the media to a certain degree. Keep in mind this is coming on the heels of a nationally publicized rape and attempted sexual assault case involving a foreigner in Isaan just three days ago. The nation's nerves are shot from the widespread flooding as well. I thought the Swiss guy and his wife came across as forthright and credible in the Thairath "reenactment" video. Was particularly impressed with Swiss guy's unhesitating physical re-enactment of how he managed to disarm the assailant. He displayed lightning fast reflexes (despite being in handcuffs), his movements appeared to be adrenaline charged, and he appeared to be reliving the experience during the re-enactment of how he disarmed the guy, all of which, to my mind, bolstered the credibility of his story.

Sounds like the Thai guy's past romantic overtures to the Swiss guy's wife have sent up a major red flag with the police. Possible scuttlebutt in the neighborhood about hanky panky or marital discord or infidelity may be causing the police to keep all avenues of investigation wide open. Forensics, and autopsy (including toxicology) need to come in to see if injuries are consistent with Swiss guy's account of what happened, and to find out what actually caused the guy's death (drugs, alcohol, underlying medical condition?). The charging of the Swiss guy could even be a ploy to throw the wife off so she doesn't realize she's being investigated, that is, if the police suspect her involvement. There's no way the Swiss guy's going to be sent to prison if the investigation supports his version of events. Self-defense is a completely viable defense in Thailand, and there is no reason to think that it would not apply here if the investigation fails to turn up any evidence that undermines this defense.

The OP's list of grievances did seem to have a somewhat high-altitude perspective. My list of reservations about Thailand is more 'boots-on-the-ground': authoritarian governments in the region, China's growing political influence in Thailand, the rise of the surveillance state, infringements on freedom of the press, lowered insurance on bank deposits, stiff tariffs on clothing and personal items ordered from overseas, rising poverty in my village driven by climate change and a public education system which, as the OP correctly points out, has long failed to deliver genuine educational opportunities to most of rural Thailand. These issues affect my daily life and aren't easily brushed aside, as some have suggested, with a flick of the wrist. The problem comes when you start comparing potential alternatives. As I am sure the OP is aware, the goal posts for repatriation have shifted drastically in the past 20 years. Specifically, monetary policy (artificially depressed interest rates) have resulted in hyper-inflated housing and asset prices in much of the West. At a minimum, repatriation to the West will undoubtedly result in a drastic drop in your standard of living for housing, unless of course, you are one of the very few who managed to hold onto real estate during your tenure in Thailand. It's when you start doing hard comparisons to other possible destinations that you realize that no place is perfect and that no matter where you live, trade-offs will have to be made. As alternatives are explored, options will emerge, which will help put your current dissatisfaction with Thailand in perspective. My one word of caution is that - if you were like me - before moving to Thailand you were probably immersed in a fog of contemplation and dreaming about your new life in Thailand for a considerable length of time before actually moving here. Now that you are in Thailand, don't get lost in another fog of contemplation about your new life in 'future' land. You need to make an effort to live in the present. By all means: plan!, but try not to let planning for the future stop you from living in the present.

Surprised Foremost hasn't received any votes. Just FYI, it may have escaped the notice of some from the US, Canada, and Australia that Thai milk isn't fortified with Vitamins A and D, as is usually the case back home.

Covid-19 and climate change have changed the trajectory of global tourism for the foreseeable future, if not forever. The time to recognize that global mass tourism is not sustainable has long since passed. It is time for the Thai government to realize that the world has entered the Age of Atonement, and to recognize that for most of us, our lives have been characterized by unsustainable over-consumption of goods and services. The competition to see who can consume the most is being replaced by a competition to see who can do the most to improve the environment. If the Thai government were smart it would be looking for ways to attract people who can do the most to help towards the goal of improving the environment and combating climate change: academics, climate specialists, mass transit infrastructure specialists, agriculturalists, etc. Giving preferential treatment to the wealthy, hoping to benefit in the short term from their ostentatious consumerism is environmentally unsustainable, conflicts with many Buddhist values, and will benefit already wealthy business and property owners the most. On the other hand, a focus on reforming the educational system and becoming the ASEAN leader in climate change technology would benefit farmers and the lower and middle classes the most, which in the long run would improve Thailand's economic health and social fabric. Trying to restore Thailand's tourism industry to its past glory and heyday is shortsighted and, frankly, delusional. Mass-tourism puts an unsustainable strain on Thailand's environment as well as the Thai people's cultural resiliency. At its core, Thailand's attraction was the charm of its people, and its environmental beauty. Covid-19 masks have literally hidden from sight the emblematic Thai smile. People have had to learn to be satisfied with reading smile lines around the eyes. Engaging socially is hazardous duty: hygiene masks hide facial expressions, interactions are held to a minimum, conversations are conducted through vinyl partitions and hand signals, and trying to make yourself understood or understand someone through an N-95 mask is exhausting and frustrating no matter how good your Thai is. So, thinking that tourists are going to come flocking back under these conditions is pretty unrealistic in my book. Environmental degradation too has spoiled much of Thailand's natural beauty: rain forests, elephant reserves, hill tribe villages, and unspoiled beaches and islands. Does Thailand still have the environmental assets to attract wealthy travelers, those who presumably have a wide range of options available to them? Mother nature needs time to heal. I am sure I am not alone in reporting that the healing process is slowing beginning. Out in the countryside, the air is fresher, wildlife seems to be regenerating. On successive early morning walks I have spotted a family of owls together. It is heartening to see the recuperative power of mother nature. Why not let that healing process continue for the long-term benefit of the Thai people? I would say Thailand needs to start making more long-range plans about its future, and stop tinkering with quick fix solutions to get things back to the way they were a few years back. It's not going to work: the world has changed. Instead, I would focus on reforming the educational system, and attracting resources from abroad which can help improve the academic culture in Thailand, and help Thailand become a regional leader in climate change technology and innovation. These are the people Thailand should be competing to attract. Fire the sycophantic fortune tellers, astrologers, and "yes-man" toadies who are only capable of looking to the past for guidance, and hire forward thinking planners and technocrats to help move Thailand's economy and education system into the 21rst century. The world has changed. Pretending it hasn't, is only wasting precious time.

While there is a statistical correlation between how much wealth a person has and how much they spend, it is entirely possible to have great wealth and spend very little, in fact, many people accumulate significant wealth simply by spending below their means. Thailand, with its low cost of living, is attractive to people interested in spending below their means, so it's by no means certain that people meeting these asset tests will in fact boost consumption as much as the powers that be anticipate. The same principle applies to the 800K bank deposit requirement for retirees. Someone with 800K in the bank or showing monthly income of 'xyz' can easily spend very little here if they chose to. Speaking personally, the thought of having my bank records scrutinized by immigration officers, and worrying about who might have access to those records sends a chill up my spine. A long time ago I set up a separate 800,000 immigration account simply because I worried about the confidentiality of immigration records. This was after an immigration official sitting at a back desk in the immigration office saw what village I lived in and started telling me his girlfriend ran the pharmacy in my village. In other words, if this guy knew how much money I had in my Thai bank account, he could spread this all over town in a heartbeat, obviously not something I wanted everyone in my small village to know. That may sound paranoid to some, but my experience with people keeping government records confidential at the local level has been anything but confidence inspiring. I flat-out would be very reluctant to disclose my net worth to immigration. In my opinion, that information has too much potential for misuse and exploitation, and I don't have confidence that the confidentiality of those records would be closely guarded.

Social skills have degraded and economic pressures have mounted during the pandemic. Kindness, patience, and conflict avoidance need to be the order of the day. Do you really want to end up in the hospital over a petty dispute?