George FmplesdaCosteedback

3 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Many Thai's are now educated Internationally or at International Schools - their English is better than their Thai and some choose to speak in English amongst themselves. 

 

A number of my Thai Friends' kids also attend various International Schools here, when we all meet up the Kids are all speaking English to each other although they are all 100% Thai. 

 

I also agree with the comment that when with a group of well heeled Thai's they will primarily speak English for the sole benefit of the one non-Thai's present who's Thai skills are not up to scratch or up to the standard of the English of Thai's with whom we are conversing. Once departed it is more than feasible to assume that the language reverts back to Thai, although I see quite often that when the same Thai's do speak Thai with each other there are many English words and phrases that are slipped in amongst the Thai language - it almost becomes a hybrid language.

 

When in a service setting the waitress / shop assistant etc does not address you there is a simple answer... they are uncertain and frightened that there will be confusion and thus takes the most comfortable solution - ultimately their apparent poor manners have manifested out of a lack of confidence.

 

In this situation speaking Thai may help, but in many cases the 'eyes don't believe the ears' and the poor rabbit in the headlights you are attempting to communicate with will mentally panic and shut down until they reach the 'oh-horrrrr moment' when it dawns on them that the foreign face in front of them is speaking the same language they do....

 

..... but then again, I see my Wife is commonly misunderstood when I can clearly understand what she is saying, orders or conversations have to be repeated multiple times and then mistakes are still made (wrong orders etc)... its usually because the 'other party' is either from a province outside of Bangkok and is having difficulty with the Bangkok dialect (or lack of their home dialect) and is struggling with the accent or is just not very switched on is struggling to pay attention. 

 

I do find accurate, concise, efficient communication here a struggle even when language is not a barrier and its Thai on Thai, this is obviously compounded when Thai on foreigner. 

 

 

Thanks, good comments.

I've met and know some Hi-So Thais educated in Australia or the west that speak among themselves in English, simply as it far more expressive. I think it depends on the general level of English of the company they are in.

I agree with your other observations too, "rabbit in the headlights" is a good analogy.

19 hours ago, Been there done that said:

Trust is in the eye of the beholder.

And the ear?

I've never "had a go" at anyone, just make sure they realise I do understand Thai.

To be fair it happens very rarely, and 99.9% are very friendly and polite.

I don't advertise speaking Thai, as it inevitably ends up with the usual set of questions that I am bored with answering.

Misunderstanding, never a problem...

AI is here.

Marvin says it's going to be fun driving you home after a skin full.

12 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Then take a few minutes a day to understand it... it's not as difficult as it looks.  And, if you are living here (not just on holiday) it seems really lazy and rude not to even know some basic reading and speaking.  How would you like it if people came to your home country and did not even attempt to speak, or read your language after several years of living there?  

 

Also, it will make your life much easier and reduce a lot of the misunderstandings most farangs seem to get upset about here.  

If only.........

UK is full of non-English speakers, so is the US I understand.

Making an effort and speaking some Thai is much appreciated here, but they don't really want you to know too much as they can't talk about you in front of your face.

I have had the pleasure of putting some right about abusing Farangs after they vented their xenophobia thinking I have no idea what they were saying.

The local check-out girls etc warn people I speak Thai these days.

22 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

 

You ain't speaking Thai when you say 'check  bin' either, that's American pidgin .... 'Canna have the check please'.

Thai  is 'gep tang'.

True, but I have been told it is not polite to say that, so I stopped using it.

I let the wife ask these days where they don't know me, and she says that...

Noble cause and much effort. Well done!

Just a shame it is needed, when submarines are not.

Why is this about perpetrators not victims?

I'm sure many of the TV members can tell a story of being molested in Thailand by transsexuals.

On 10/11/2017 at 5:50 PM, jak2002003 said:

Sorry to upset you.  I was not trying to be a 'smart ar5e'.  I am not saying my Thai language skills are any better than yours.

 

I was only suggesting that if you said what you said you did in your post they would not have been able to understand you. 'Chai' sounds noting like 'Jai'.  

 

And, sorry to disagree, but tones are VERY important, even in a sentence.  And, surly you could guess my 'it' instead of 'it's' was a simple typo, like you don't spell arse with a number 5.  

 

I have no idea what a 'High Thai' language course is.  I only did a normal Thai language, reading, writing, speaking course for 4 years, and only have the limited experience of speaking Thai every day for about 10 years....(living here full time) and, yes, I still get things wrong!  

 

PS, if you can't understand how to sing a pop song using a tonal language you really can't expect people to take you advise about how the Thai language works.  

 

 

Well, I did a six month course before I came here to live in 1990.

It was no help with the people I was dealing with at the time, but has helped me recognise mistakes, particularly the obvious mistakes you can make in better educated company, a little later.

Working here for many years I have found Bangkok is serviced by folk from all parts of the country with different accents and colloquialisms.

I am saying you have more to learn every day, and living in a less cosmopolitan area where everyone has the same inflection will provide a narrow view of the language.

As has been pointed out by others, "Ron" is incorrect in any type of transliteration or regional dialect for "hot".

A last comment on language: "Ch" is nearer to general pronunciation than "J" in "I don't understand" (please check the Thai alphabet as suggested).

Okay, we all make typos (advise or advice?), sorry but you were being picky and it needed to be pointed out. Spelling out "arse" usually is <deleted> and it was no mistake.

I said before, discussion is interesting, I don't come on TV solely for an argument.

PS. Please see my post #128 about singing.

All the best, G.

On 10/11/2017 at 12:20 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

More like 'rawn' as it  has sara 'awe' in the middle.

Completely useless trying to pronounce or even guess Thai words from transliteration, everyone should be forced to learn  the Thai alphabet.

Just clear this up. I don't speak "bargirl Thai", but over the years have tried to study all the different dialects that you find in Bangkok.

After reading some of your other posts I guess you have a good grasp and must be fairly fluent to the point you are almost always understood.

Some of the other posts are good too, as you can come across people that are just not listening, as well as you speak a simple request they ignore what you say because all they see is a white face. I don't look  like a backpacker, and after asking the price of something in Thai I am presented with a calculator... as if I have no knowledge of even Thai numbers.

Has that never happened to you over the years?

That was the OP question I think?

Cheers. G

On 10/11/2017 at 9:08 AM, kenk24 said:

why is that a problem or difficult to understand... just listen to any Thai song and you should have a good example. Listen to Karabou or Loso... tones are intonations and notes are notes... using a high tone in A or E doesn't really effect the pronunciation, does it? I am surely not an expert in this and maybe I am misunderstanding you, but not sure what one has to do with the other. 

I am as I said confining it to none traditional songs, only western style "pop". That musical notes have not really got much to do with "tones" I concede, but it is difficult, nigh on impossible, to combine the two while singing pop or rock.

You must have very fine hearing to define five tones in the lyrics of a heavy rock song sung in Thai.

It is hard enough in English:

https://www.popdust.com/50-of-the-best-or-worst-misquoted-song-lyrics-ever-1889763128.html

And another Gazette report that says two Phuket Police Chiefs have been moved to Surat suspected of taking bribes from entertainment venues.

 https://www.thephuketnews.com/former-patong-police-chief-deputy-chief-transferred-to-surat-thani-64652.php#FLOgXRWuC5SHwQVr.97

(cross thread link, have a look)

Time to sweep house?

My favourite fragrant rice, but it doesn't go with everything.

I like Basmati too, depends on what dish you are eating.

On 08/11/2017 at 5:30 AM, simoh1490 said:

As a group you haven't produced any statistics or economic models, all you do is tell everyone that the models and statistics produced by the remain group are wrong, that and play word games just like you're doing here! Indeed, leave has yet to be proved correct, correct about what is the mystery though! At some point you'll no doubt jump up and down and shout, I told you so, we were right, claiming that some future event was long in your master plan, the one that nobody has ever seen!

And if it goes wrong, the remoaners would not gloat?

Who are you trying to kid.

The fact we have fought hard for decades to get a referendum says enough. Neil Kinnock promised one in his manifesto in 1992 if you know anything about UK politics in the last 40 years.

He lost despite that for other reasons, but went on to become Lord (and Lady) Kinnock with highly paid cushy EU Commissioner jobs (with his wife amazingly who had never been elected to anything) and fat pensions...

There is an old saying that applies to the UK referendum on the CM/EEC/EU:

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, but you cannot fool ALL of the people ALL of the time." Honest Abe.

UK woke up and said: "Enough is enough."

Not the first time either...

19 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

OK, I'm guessing this is mostly a UK poster debate that's raising these challenges to fact and I do appreciate it's been a long evening/night for many. So I'm happy to leave things there and I'll go about my business in Thailand whilst others sleep it off and I'll pick up the debate again during more sensible debating hours.

A good night's sleep, excellent idea, sleep off some anger and misconception.

Those of us from the UK, and I dare say other currently EU countries, will just sit back and consider the UK has had a referendum and a General Election.

Leaving the EU remains (sorry for the pun) the choice of the majority in a democratic country.

Happy dreams...

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Mr Normal cycles in circles.

Bill, a classic!

I don't agree with you on Brexit, but thank Buddha for comedians...

3 hours ago, Neeranam said:

I'm still wondering what the guy that said, Paw mung Thai, means. Did he ever say?

Yeah, transliteration sucks here. I know guys  in in khon kaen, that think the second word is said kaen. Same for kalasin, should be a G. Some have been here over 10 years!

Actually, the Thai word , jai, is more like "mind", not heart. Jai Ron doesn't mean hot heart, jai yen doesn't mean cold heart etc. I compiled a document once with over 500 jai words, and although some were interchangeable, eg dtaam jai, follow your heart/mind, most mean mind.

I think you need to look at regional accents more.

I'm not an expert, but, as happens in the UK and most other countries regions have dialects. Southern Thailand hardly use tones.

My favorite example of "tone usage" is: How do you sing a pop song in a tonal language.

I have asked university language professors, professional translators etc but nobody can tell me how.

I'd like to see what you have on "Jai" though, but "Ron" isn't a good transliteration for HOT wherever you are.

Thanks, not having a go, just interesting.

Quotes on box prices seem a bit low. Box of beer can easily be around 100B less, two boxes less the taxi fare (or me anyway) it's still 10B a bottle less than 7/11 buying individually.

Tesco local is okay, near where I live, but don't deliver.

Again, depends on where you live. Out near the stick houses in Nackon Nowhere is cheap to buy, but overheads can be more expensive.

Horses for courses.

On 08/11/2017 at 5:34 AM, simoh1490 said:

And that's another feature of Brexiteers, when an article or set of numbers is put forward to support an argument by the remain camp, it's always exactly what you just wrote in your post above, we think the source is biased, we don't like them so we won't believe them, go find something else that we will believe. There's never a hint of Brexiteers saying, OK, but here's a different data set that shows you're wrong and we're right, it's always, that's rubbish we don't believe it, go get something else to show us, next! It's nonsense, utter utter nonsense.

So all the facts presented by both sides were correct?

I have talked to a few people that really can't grasp what it was about, most voted "Status Quo" but want the EU to reform(?). Others wanted stay in their peer group of friends, Labour or Conservative.

The nonsense is Brussels:

Here's a clue for those that don't understand (and I have another that explains the use and manipulation of statistics for the simple minded):

This was written by someone who understood, had been in high politics long before the EU Constitution and Maastricht farce or the Euro, never mind the ex-USSR countries joining and the flood of immigrants. It is brilliantly portrayed by some fine actors. Sometimes humour is the best way to explain to those that do not comprehend, while all can have a laugh at the same thing.

Enjoy.

Completely agree. About time someone said it.

Isn't SM wonderful, just open to fake news, false accusations, bullying, stalking, grooming, begging, scams and several other undesirable things.

Not what Tim Berners-Lee had in mind I think.

14 hours ago, Dustdevil said:

First class is not worth the extra money. Business is just as good. With my frequent flier miles I've crossed the Pacific for years in Business...always with a nice little cocoon and comfortable lie-flat seat with blanket. I never bother with airlines' censored TV and movies. (Nowadays, US domestic flights are eliminating seat-back screens and replacing them with brackets to hold your personal devices.) I always popped some Xanax so I could sleep most of the way across the Pacific and told them not to wake me for food except for the final meal. That's 15 hours across, you know, not like the 7 or 8 hours to and from Europe. All that sleep and the Xanax totally killed off the jet lag. Only way to travel.

Direct to UK is more than 7-8 hours, more like 11, so this will be the same.

If you fly Emirates etc quickest is 15+ hours with the stop.

This Luftwaffe flight sounds good though as you can connect to regional UK airports in Frankfurt for the hop if you don't live near an international airport.

I'll check it next time.

22 hours ago, NanLaew said:

Someone 'down the pub' suggested the crowdfund I guess. Seems a popular way of getting cash reasonably quick without digging too deep personally. Don't see anything particularly wrong with that.

I could do with a new car: Please send money...

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Really, Remain has no arguments at all, really? Did you miss the parts about the economy shrinking and a further reduction in services, the Pound falling even further in value, a massive reduction in foreign direct investment, (aka bank and financial service which is already coming to fruition), government debt and borrowings that can't be easily and cheaply refinanced because the kindness of strangers has been withdrawn, surely you must have noticed some of those arguments....or perhaps not! 

You need to check some facts.

Predictions are not Fact.

Just now, MaeJoMTB said:

 

Most of us try to avoid bar girl speak.

Oh, and my girlfriend from Bangkok with a good job couldn't understand me?

When did you get off the boat? Last week?

If you can speak English better than you can write it maybe you should study regional dialects.

Wife stopped play...

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Thank you for admitting that the Brexit group doesn't have such a model and in fact doesn't have a clue what one might look like until some unspecified point in the future and that the whole thing is a massive leap into the economic unknown.

 

Perhaps for you the vote was about sovereignty,  aka not being told what to do by another political body. For others it was about being able to spend an additional £350 million a week on the NHS and about reducing immigration, cough cough!

 

See below the thread I mentioned earlier, I'll go through it and pull out the posts I referred to, bring back memories?

 

 

And relinquishing all power to a semi-democratic expansionist, bureaucratically ruled and inept EU "Super State" is the answer?

You need a reality check.

PS. The Press promised £350m to the NHS.

Leave actually said: "The money can help to fund public services."