Scouse123

For the ones who were unsure and for those who were certain that the appeal was only against the death penalty not the conviction, I hope they read the above article.

The appeal is against........ conviction.....it is therefore automatically against the death sentence imposed.

I recall the practice of shackles was stopped once after a visit to Chonburi prison by some high ranking Japanese officials who raised it as a human rights issue.

They then stopped it temporarily. It was quickly reintroduced following an attempted escape by Thai prisoners on their way to court.Prisoners were then required to wear them to and from court.

Inside the prison, new arrivals on murder cases were placed in them 24 hours a day for a period of time and they were then removed. Likewise, prisoners who were caught fighting / drugs etc could be made to wear them for a period of time as a punishment.

I am not up to date with the present procedures in 2016. However, I do believe it was more ' policy ' as opposed to ' law ' that shackles were worn. People must understand they try to follow the USA in many of their routines and procedures with an unhealthy adaptation and their own additions.

Hence, you have all kinds of American jargon,terminology and bastardized interpretations within their laws

The above picture of the young men I can only presume is dated by the chains they are wearing. These chains are not being worn 24/7. These are dirty and rusty and are put on temporarily for transport to court. Those required to wear them 24/7 would be gleaming and sparklingly clean and fastened also at the top of the calf leg so that they do not have to hold the chains with a rope or cord.

Prolonged wearing of filthy chains would lead them to bite into the ankles and infect the wearer and that is why when they wear them for a long period they keep them in immaculate condition.

And then these guys wonder why the world has no respect whatsoever for the Junta, the Thai police and the whole system of justice in Thailand.

Absolute pond life!.......stupid girl is no better, did she think she was getting a car and financial support for nothing!

Did she not realise the dangers, she had been with him four years so the dozy bitch must have had some idea about his personality.

No reason to take a life? Yes, we know, in a civilised society with good education and upbringing. Too many cases like this and flimsy excuses for meting out death for no reason.

Sadness and condolences for the mother and the young 21 year old boyfriend who probably knew very little and now knows nothing at all!........... RIP.

A few pointers.

There is a right of automatic appeal in a death penalty case. Most other cases, but not all,only if they feel the courts time is being deliberately wasted and the facts are overwhelming is it turned down. I can remember an instance of this when an Iranian appealed his sentence on a cheating case years gone by and using a false passport.

He was caught on CCTV clearly with the passport attempting a large card purchase with a gold shop.He was using a false passport in an attempt to provide credibility to a large expensive purchase. When it came to court he tried to claim it wasn't him but they had video footage and rejected his leave to appeal to a higher court, so they can refuse leave to appeal but not as far as I know, in capital murder cases, certainly not in one like this.

It must be noted that if certain points are raised, a complete retrial can be ordered if procedures are found not to have been followed, this usually takes place when extreme pressure has been exerted, however, Thailand is looking for this to go away and as some have rightly pointed out, the powers-that-be have decided this case before it even went to a court. Too many guns are going to lose face, too much money has changed hands and too much corruption has taken place and they are not going to allow it to happen by backtracking now.

With regards to the appeals court, there will be no further evidence put forward. The defence must find fault with the evidence already submitted and registered in court record at the time. This takes place on a daily basis by the judge speaking into a recording device all points of the case he deems necessary, if they are not in court record, he deems them not necessary and it depends on the powers of persuasion of the defence lawyers to get it in the court record on the day there.

In the appeals procedure, the boys will not be summoned to court and will not be required to give any further evidence.There is not an appeals judge, there is a faceless, nameless committee of judges. These judges do not sit every day nor every week. This case can be put before the committee and a couple of pages read and then remarks put on file and it is then placed at the bottom of the pile, the next case comes into view on top of the pile and so on.This procedure goes on and on with many many cases and a huge backlog.This is why a verdict can take years and years.The initial judges reading the case may be completely different to those deciding it. However, this is their system and that's it, fair or not.

The next the boys will hear of this case is when they are summoned to court to ' hear the verdict ' of the appeals court and be given a copy of the verdict and reasons for the decision and it will have three judges names and signatures attached to it. The judge reading this verdict will not be one of the judges who decided it.

Moving to the ' boys in shackles ' statement on here by a poster. This is true because they have been convicted so they will be placed in leg irons which they do live and sleep in and are not removed for a period of time. I am unsure slightly on this point because ' Colin Marin ' author off ' Welcome to Hell ' was required to wear them for a year. He was convicted of murder. However, the judge viewed he ' accepted guilt at the police station ' and gave him about 19 years later reduced to 14 years or thereabouts but that is not similar to this apart from it being a murder case.He did accept guilt but tried to retract later and stated they had placed plastic bags over his head and tortured him. This was not accepted by the judge but his sentenced was reduced because the judge said he admitted it in the police station. You see, this again, was a case of a judge ' selectively choosing evidence he felt was relevant to the case.When the boys retracted their statements, it was said ' it didn't matter what was said at the police station, it only mattered what was said in court!!!!

These boys differ somewhat as they have been given death sentence, so will be segregated from mainstream prisoners and I am not certain if after a period, their chains will be removed, I think they will remove the shackles because this case is not concluded and the appeals are not finished, so it isn't over.

The defence lawyers have asked for easy access to lawyers and Embassy / family visits they be moved to Bangkok. Therefore, if granted which I think it will be, ( no reason not to appear fair now, they have already found them guilty and the authorities can hold this up as to how fair they are being to the unfortunate migrant workers ) they will be moved to Bangkok remand prison, or Klong prem Men's prison which now has a section. for death sentence prisoners because Bang Kwaang was overly full ) or to Bang Kwaang if there is space. It all depends on how easy or difficult the authorities want to be. They will always find a way to justify any decision they make regards where they house these boys.

Either way, they are better there than being held in the South of Thailand with Muslim terrorists, bombers, and various other misfits down there. If they were segregated in the South, it could have been by request of lawyers or to keep them away from a lot of the crazed guys in that prison. They also will have access to good hospital facilities in Bangkok as the medical corrections facility is adjacent to Klong Prem.

I do not want to predict, I am also firmly on the side of belief that these guys have been well and truly stitched up but I think until it all dies down the Thais, being a belligerent bunch will not move on this decision as at the moment they view it as being challenged and their authority in Thailand being challenged. We then will all be treated to a few verses of ' It's an internal affair ', this is ' Thai law ' and all the rest of the xenophobic and nationalistic bile they like to spew out,even though their justice, law courts, and system falls disgustingly below international standards.

I think the best we can hope for is that they be transferred after a period of time back to serve their sentence in Myanmar, on the pretext of fostering good relations with a neighbouring Asian nation or a special case and released on some spurious health or compassionate grounds when it is no longer a headline.

Makes many of us puke, but there you go. I don't honestly see another way. The authorities are not going to back down.

God speed boys. The world is with you. Unfortunately millions (2.5 million pounds sterling I've heard so far) and a crooked system are against you.

I see that one of the troll troupe have turned up. Dispy, lala and poe to come along shortly.

Sorry,

But there is no way the figure of 2.5 million pounds (GBP) is correct, it's a nonsense figure.

Many/ most of their defence has been ' pro bono ' they have hardly been flying witnesses in from around the globe nor expert witnesses who have chosen to attend voluntarily. I think this is just people pulling figures out of their barstools.

I firmly believe there is also an error in the headline regards the reporting of this case, the lawyers will most certainly be appealing both sentence and conviction.

The rumour is that the 2.5 mill has been paid by the real perps' family to buy twisted 'justice'.

Ah, OK,

That clarifies.

Well, for the amount of people now involved ( all of whom won't do it for free ) and their ranks and levels in government, I could believe that.

God speed boys. The world is with you. Unfortunately millions (2.5 million pounds sterling I've heard so far) and a crooked system are against you.

I see that one of the troll troupe have turned up. Dispy, lala and poe to come along shortly.

Sorry,

But there is no way the figure of 2.5 million pounds (GBP) is correct, it's a nonsense figure.

Many/ most of their defence has been ' pro bono ' they have hardly been flying witnesses in from around the globe nor expert witnesses who have chosen to attend voluntarily. I think this is just people pulling figures out of their barstools.

I firmly believe there is also an error in the headline regards the reporting of this case, the lawyers will most certainly be appealing both sentence and conviction.

I find it quite inexplicable that they have waited for the appeal period to expire before applying for an extension!

The Appeal Court would be well within their rights to refuse an extension...................and it might just suit certain persons for them to do so.

Wrong actually,

It is quite common also for the prosecutor to request an extension of time when he plans an appeal as well and is nothing unusual.

Hi,

I was contemplating on going as a tourist just to say I had actually been and its nice when you are in conversation to know exactly what people are talking about. However, holidays are supposed to be about chilling out, taking it easy and generally carefree as long as an individual is taking all the usual precautions when on holiday.

Reading the thread and listening to all those with experience and knowledge, I just cannot see the point in going especially when I am told food is crap and to be constantly alert. I also am on Facebook and started doing a bit of research and met people online through social media. I have not met one online up to now, that, by the second conversation has not either asked me for money or a ticket out of there offering me everything from sexual favours right down to being a house maid. They all seem to want to get out of the place.

It seems to me that the reason i opened this thread (after speaking with my friend who had recently visited, who thinks Thailand is the be all and end all), was right after all.

He said he never felt safe no matter where he went and was constantly getting told to be careful etc etc He said towards the end, he was happy and wishing the days away to go home. Not my idea of a holiday........I think put a bit more money away and get to my lifelong dream choice destination....Japan for a month!

I do feel sorry for the state they are in, but quite a few on here and outside of TV have said that a large number over there are work-shy and want money for nothing, pretty much the same as a few other places in SE Asia.

Time to change the Topic! "The Happy Isaan Farmer & Most of their problems caused by themselves and/or others! No Education,

studying is too much work and they don't want to work! No Money! They like too work "nit noi" and drink plenty! They are Happy

Poor! The don't want to change! Let them be Happy! It's their Lives not ours!

I live in a small pocket of typical Isaarn and the above post is nearer the point than the OPs, especially where I am. (between Sakon Nakhon and Roi Et) .

The locals will work when they have reaped the rice harvest in, but they pick and choose their jobs.A new game up here, they try to quote per job as opposed to per day, I refuse and they come around. A decent worker is still 300 baht a day plus food.If it looks too hard, they are not interested.

Those in genuine need of money disappear off to Bangkok for three or four months. They then return as they don't like the cities. Daughters dump their children with their own mothers and then off the go to Pattaya and Phuket etc to ' send money home ' This happens till they find the drugs and discos in the above mentioned places then lie and say their money is all swallowed in food and rent and they have nothing to send home.

Meanwhile, the good sons and daughters who do send money home, it disappears with the fathers usually, on Hi-Lo games of chance, cards, white whisky, and local Lao girls who prostitute in Isaarn. The mothers vary, some are very good, (non drinkers and smokers) and some can outdo their husbands in the drinking, gambling and fighting!!

Ask a boy does he want the local hooker and get pissed or a bar of soap, towels and shampoo and you have the answer!! It's a choice.

The reason the teeth fall out is white whisky, lousy diet, not caring about their teeth and smoking filthy yaa baa. And this DOES apply to the masses.

The parents know no better and many are uneducated and the local teachers can usually be found with ex- students in the brothels. And I have SEEN ALL THIS with my own eyes.

You do get very determined young boys and girls who wish to help themselves just like we have in the West. These are the ones who stay home at night and study. My niece is 14 and HAS NEVER been out after 6pm. She is in the house with the grandmother behind ours studying and watching TV.

If you ask her why, she will tell you ' Good girls do not go out unaccompanied at night ' At weekends, for spending money, she washes our clothes in the machine, washes the plates and dishes, cleans around the houses and runs errands in the village. Her friends come and sit in the large space behind our houses and play. We push her to study!!

Posters on TV forum are right, they feel the pinch up in Isaarn, that piece is true, the reasons a lot of fast food joints get busy, is they know these is the life they have, so even a small piece of enjoyment such as a few pieces of fried chicken is a bit of a treat, they enjoy it and live for today.

There is a serious lack of ' work ethic ' however in Isaarn. They watch too much television and get silly ideas from friends and are influenced by television and do believe the streets are paved with gold. They do not apportion hard work with good fortune, they believe those that have ' were lucky ' and they were not.

You will rarely see a Thai up in the sticks catching upon current affairs reading a newspaper or a good book, they prefer cartoons and video games as well as Thai soaps on TV. (even those with an education). They curse now and never take any notice when the prime minister is on the TV as it distracts from the soap opera they were engrossed in.

It's how they are!! They like being this way.

PS The OP is completely wrong about Isaarn being poorer than Cambodian farmers. That's pure nonsense.

good on them, muppets commenting their disapproval must prefer being "back home" where passers-by either pretend they didn't notice, or just film it on their phones. Thailand still has a thing called community

I have heard it called ' mob rule ' and a liking for ' gratuitous violence ' but never your version / idea of 'community '

We all must remember that the next time a mob of motorbike taxi drivers or tuk tuk drivers are attacking a foreigner for querying a fare with 20 against 1. They are just being community minded.

This is not care in the community at all, they were having a lousy day to start with, and this clown presented himself, pissed as a rat,and just allowed them to vent their frustrations out on somebody without getting arrested or fined.

I think the Bangkok scene has been a rip off for a very long time. This is not news nor a recent event. The bars that run shows decided to completely just go for organised tour arrangements and forego the bread and gutter customers, they have shown that regular patrons do not interest them by the direction they have taken. The customer with the fat wallet remains welcome if willing to pay the inflated prices.

Pat pong itself is finished as an entertainment area and is now just ageing drunken old hookers way past their sell by date with bar owners, usually Thais in that locality, also old and facing very expensive rent hikes from a pat pong family that does not care or is not interested in a bar owners problems.

A bottle of standard lager there is 130 baht in a counter top bar, which equates at over £5 a pint. That's to look at copy CD movies on a TV with a 50 year old bar woman who isn't interested except for a lame attempt at a " lady drink " . A sad state of affairs in scruffy streets whose charm and fun days are way long gone.

I was paying recently £5 a pint but that was in good high end bars in London. With London overheads and decent staff wages, it is expected.

You have a government that doesn't care about tourism as they have other things on their minds, you have unsolved violence, rapes and murders ,gun crime and road accidents out of control, and the only thing they wish to do is blame the foreigner, increase prices, make visas and entry/exits more complicated with increasing frequency.

You then add to the mix, rising prices, a bar scene in decline with changing customer base, filthy beaches, a police force and military which now doesn't even attempt to hide their disdain for the Western tourists and people who are now definitely exercising their options to visit neighbouring countries where they do not get ANY the above and value for money to go with it.

People are now deciding with their feet and their airline choices, after years of threatening to go to new places, actually making the move and finding they like the alternatives!

Who wants to go to Phuket, now the most unfriendliest place in Thailand and the biggest rip off; mafia taxis attacking tourists, price gouging etc, prices out of control and all the nonsense about parasols on beaches and you cannot do this, that and the other!!!

I live in a backwater as I have said before and am happy with my lot but when we holiday, the only reason we go to Bangkok is to fly to Hanoi, Siem Reap, KL, Singapore etc. We no longer even enter inner Bangkok as there is nothing there any more to enjoy or interest us.

Actually in my view there was nothing wrong with his haircut either contrary to some posters beliefs. Short, clean and tidy.

A close crop in a hot tropical climate, good idea!

Another win for Vietnamese tourism.

Actually you are very near the mark!!, also Vietnam has teams monitoring all surrounding countries, their policies and policy changes, visa charges, tax affairs the lot.

Vietnam does not intend to be in division two in the tourism stakes and is slowly but very surely getting its act together, it's also a very safe country and very clean in most parts with the positives way outweighing the negatives.

I am now a very regular visitor and just awaiting a few more changes in visas etc and will relocate for sure. A vast country, plenty to see, inexpensive, safe etc ' What's not to like! ' just the long term visa issues, which they are on with!

I just wish the language was a bit easier to learn and English was more widely spoken but it will come.

No wifi in India?

No Skype?

No Whatsapp or Messenger or Facebook?

Who needs phone credits to call their family these days?

If a poor family, they maybe had the old style village phone at or near the local shop, where somebody runs and calls them to a phone. Maybe, her family, had an old style house phone or their neighbours did. The husband may have some cash, but in India the man seldom shares it with the "wife's family! " Unlikely with the animosity they had regards his views of her neglecting him in favour of them.

I don't think the family had a smartphone / Wi Fi connection or this problem would not have arisen, would it?

Bearing in mind vast swathes of the the country don't even have a house toilet and still use the fields.

Why is he complaining??

What kind of nonsense is this to be troubling Interpol???,................... as if they have nothing better to do.

The only way he is still in power is bullying,scaring people, extra judicial killings, treachery, rigging elections, corruption..................the usual South Asian stuff.

He is hated by Cambodia's young.

This is a man who is manipulating the social media for his own advantage as much as possible. He is just another in a long line of despots that think a country is there for the sole purpose of their own personal bank balance.

When you have a shop or a restaurant or a bar, and another similar business opens, the council says competition is good and promotes businesses to try harder and give value for money and better service Well, the same applies here. The black cabs have had their own way for far too long. They now wish to monopolise the taxi industry. What's good for the goose.... and all that!

But my original point was why are they reaching out for funds for a lawsuit that they themselves are bringing about, when if they all chip in £24 each, the equivalant of a couple of fares, they can pay it themselves. What they want is not what crowdfunding is about!!

I am unsure as to who is the most gullible, the ' Chief ' who ordered the tests and expected the public to believe them or the newspapers for publishing such crap and thinking we would believe them.

What an absolutely and complete waste of time, effort and urine!

Who's taking the piss out of who here?...............

Not the wisest decision the guys have ever made.

Going to a brothel in a country where the USA and UK are hated and despised. Crime and murder rates are still running and epidemic levels

An accident waiting to happen!

Let's hope they get them back and quickly!

Why they want crowdfunding?

They charge enough in fares!!!!!!!!!................... 25,000 cab drivers and they need 600,000 GBP in legal fees.

How about they all put in 24GBP each, problem solved!

Thailand and its out of control legal-judicial system can't stop shooting itself in the foot. They just can't seem to comprehend that in the internet era, such efforts to supress negative news of civil and human rights abuses redounds back to Thailand in a negative light.

They, those in the positions of power, are used to instilling fear and panic into working class Thais and bullying their way through the system.They do not like people standing up to them, challenging authority or in any way going against their version of the ' party line '

They are nothing more than local thugs and medieval warlords running the country for the benefit of the tiny minority of privileged position, upbringing and wealth, you only have to look at the rants the present prime minister goes on when he doesn't get his own way!

It's a disgusting feudal system. Andy Hall is going to be fed to the lions unless he does the same as Andrew Drummond and leave and get out of the place for good.

There are certain similarities in these two guys difficulties, both are in the business of truth, journalist/ activist, trying to seek out injustices and expose evil practices and have reported serious misgivings in Thailand and both have been faced with a barrage of lawsuits and serious threats to their well being.

The Thais know full well if they throw enough lawsuits, a journalist/activist will run out of the amount of bail monies to defend them, especially if you are dealing with multiple lawsuits and multiple sums of bail money tied up for years on end.

They are not going to allow him to win these cases, no matter what happens. He may win one or two, but eventually they will get him. It always happens in Thailand.

The EU, I hope, will not be such a pushover. They know what's going on and what went on. I really hope there are serious repercussions to this fruit company and that they lose a fortune. However, they will not see the error of their ways, it will be more anger in the direction of the weakest target in their sights, which happens to be Andy Hall, because of the cash they will be losing.

The Embassy will do the usual ' We don't comment on individual cases but we are aware a British national has been incarcerated and are offering consular assistance at this time ' which equates to a bag of oranges, some envelopes and stamps and a liberal sprinkling of tea and sympathy without the tea!

Yes, you can live comfortably on 65K baht per month in Chiang Mai.

Thank you TheAppletons,

I love to hear that. I've just about convinced myself to take the plunge. I'm hoping to be in Chiang Mai by the end of the year.

You will live very easily on 65K as a non drinker who enjoys cheapy food. You will have change from that depending on your housing costs.

That's brilliant, thank you very much indeed.

Guys,

Please assist as I am no petrol-head nor highly knowledgeable on cars except buying them.

Example..I have a 3.0DL Toyota pick up. Now, everyone is talking about these CO2 emissions and taxes etc. OK, What if I change my pick up and upgrade to a Toyota Fortuner 3.0DL.

Am I in this bracket of 200,000 baht extra? If so, why? ....If not, why not?

Honest, the question is asked through genuine lack of knowledge. I went on google last night but am none the wiser.

It's a little over 300 dollars. Hardly worth the effort or risk to anyone who can afford a vacation.

For a Chinese " tourists " $300 is a lot of money, and beside, a scam is a scam,

some people enjoy running a scam just for the hell of it....

And some Thai policemen love shifting the blame all the time and reinventing the story to blame ' foreigners! '........not just for the hell of it, because they refuse to accept that their nationals selling things at the beach are mafia scumbags! or is it because they get constant ' kickbacks '

When you come to Thailand, can your assets be seized??

I vote they should be seized!!!

good to get off on the right foot

They've been getting seized for years and years by all the hookers in Thailand.!