richard_smith237

It’s harsh to point the finger at the bus driver - yes he should ensure the vehicle is 100% roadworthy & safe etc… … but, the moment he raises any issue, he’s fired & they pick from one of the many others in line to take his job & remain silent. People from this ‘socio-economic’ strata of the Thai totem pole who are proactive & identify issues (safety issues) are seen as nothing more than trouble makers by the owners…. They’ve learned to just accept their ‘lot’ & shut up.

I never have - it seems e wry week I read of a minivan crash or a bus down a ravine. I drive here, I ride a Motorcycle here… but I don’t put my trust in bus & minivan drivers (or moto-taxi riders for that matter)

We (family & I) would be happy here or in the countryside but in the Uk. There are many positives to being here. Education / son is at an amazing int’l school that far exceeds a uk comprehensive school & many UK private schools. Nationwide attitudes towards basic safety measures here is a major drawback. But can get an MRI for an ankle or shoulder injury immediately without being put on a 6-12 month waiting list (in the UK). Many positives to living here - but this thread really showcases the extremes of the negatives…. Such a heartbreaking & wholly avoidable tragedy.

Apathy at almost every facet of the culture here… … it’s a double edged sword - it’s what makes Thailand a chilled place to be without jobswoths picking up on every small details, some called it more free & enjoy the absence of the ‘nanny state’ (as they call it) - but the tragedies are the consequence of ‘a non-nanny state’.

No he didn’t - read that initial report too (& reacted strongly) “…. The saw the Thai media showing the bus driver running to get an extinguisher… sadly too little too late… Nevertheless - the reports of the bus driver doing a ‘runner’ are false. This the bus driver below: white & blue stripped T-shirt. https://x.com/nongeunnarakmak/status/1841077331013632073?s=46&t=LdoTwzMvW73hNKXapRdM3w (Vid may used been taken down it was working yesterday)

At some point in the future, each neighborhood may have a ‘mini-reactor’ that can supply and respond instantly to local energy demand. The issue of course is safety - serious consequences of taking out a city block when a fuel rod jams - that’s the paranoia anyway. Then there is the waste disposal issue - but that can be resolved (somehow - burying deep in the earth - 4km boreholes etc) Had three major nuclear events not happened, the world would already be a very different place from an energy perspective (the events were Three Mile Island, Chernobyl & Fukushima). Currently hydrocarbons & CO2 is the daemon - but plant life is thriving because of more atmospheric CO2…. Does the earth balance itself out ? I’m really interested in carbon recapture - which I believe is cleaner than battery tech. Also hydrogen power & I expect to see some significant in H2 power along with an increased dependence on biofuels.

I agree that there is a ‘minority’ on here who debate / discuss / argue from a basis of nothing more than uninformed bias…, & I agree that had the bus in question been an EV it would have been like cat-nip the anti-EV’ers…. Some may accuse me of being a climate change denier from the perspective of not buying into all the media frenzy & panic surrounding storms etc, or rather, I sit on the fence that extreme weather is caused by climate change - extreme weather has always happened, it’s just impacting us humans in different ways because there are more of us, living in more areas of the globe with lightening quick social media…. I note that the term ’global warming’ is no longer used. That said, I do accept there are human influenced climate alterations, and those alterations have occurred at a rate which appears more accelerated than can be explained by geological time’ - the obvious one is the doubling of atmospheric CO2 (~200 to ~400ppm) since the onset of the Industrial Revolution, though I am highly skeptical of how the issue has been politicized. I like EV’s - I think they are incredible. I want one because I think they are good vehicles. But, I don’t like the existing battery tech & I don’t believe EV’s are the transport solution - it’s just a better solution than ICE, although much in the same manner we used catalytic converters I’m not sure why greater steps were not taken towards CO2 & NO2 recapture. Am I a climate change denier because of this ? I don’t believe so….

Why not ? I guess if you are not a watch guy, then you'll never know. Its the same as cars... they still go from A to B... I once had a Rolex, it was the cheapest watch I ever owned... ( think about that point for a second ) Though.. keeping it in storage as asset is more sensible... Some people like nice houses, smart clothes, fly business or first class, have 2 or 3 (or more nice cars).... drink fine wine, great whisky etc... If you have to ask why... You'd never understand the answer anyway and on comprehend by shoehorning any response into the 'showing off' box that comes 'pre-biased' into your thinking. Oh... "I can tell the time on my phone, who needs a watch" ... "I can ask someone what time it is, who needs a watch" etc etc...

Awesome - giving your child the empowerment to follow your (and her) safety standards is fantastic.... Many parents will just say 'play along' you can't change the culture etc, but I have a firm respect for every parent whatever their nationality who teaches their children to stand up for their very own basic safety standards. I just wish adults here acted with the same empowerment - that would already start to make headway into improving safety standards... if the drivers were 'able' to question the safety of their vehicle without risk of being fired etc... or if they were able to drive a maximum limit of hours etc without loss of money etc... (no - thats not racist Kwilco)

I think thats a common issue here - poorly carried out conversions... though there are so many LPG conversions carried out here the engineering skill set is clearly present and experienced, otherwise we'd see far more issues - I think the issue is certification. The issue is also that all such vehicles 'should' be diesel. Regarding fire suppression - I don't think thats a requirement in any nation, but using non-flammable materials certainly is. That said - I'm not sure the materials of the fittings / upholstery made any difference IF this was an LPG explosion.

Only a fool is incapable of looking around and making clear and factual observations. Only an idiot thinks those observations hold no validity whatsoever in establishing patterns, even if anecdotal. And... only a ridiculous apologist thinks any of this equates to racism or bigotry... You, Kwilco, try so extremely hard to shoe horn accusations of bigotry and racism into these discussions because you are unable to explain the patterns any other way - the observations of these patterns are not racism, they are not bigotry - they are simply identification of a systemic weakness and those weaknesses exist in many countries. These weaknesses exist in countries with white people too... they exist in the UK. different issues to a difference extent - yet patterns and weaknesses can also be identified through observation - and that is why you are wrong when you attempt to kneecap commonsense discussion with flawed accusations of racism and bigotry - in this example, trying to drop the 'woke bomb' fails when the issue is human nature.

OK.. So we're looking at about ฿400k extra... What are your thoughts on depreciation ? I've always been concerned that the value of an EV would drop off a cliff close to warranty expiration. But the value of an ICE doesn't... but, engine parts are more readily replaceable than a knackered battery. That said - its reported that batteries last 15 years etc... Once there are modular batteries that can be easily switched out - the EV world is set - though I still question the overall bigger picture of them being environmentally friendly vs carbon recapture and H2.

Was he even at fault though? It sounds like he may have done the typical thing you see here where people just push their way in to a lane, especially if they're larger. If he's responsible for that then basically so is everyone else. I think the blow out 'excuse' was genuine - there is a Thai media report whereby one of the teachers in the following bus observed the blowout and watched the bus swerving (inadvertently hitting another vehicle)... Then I think the driver saw flames, got out and tried to get help - attempting to open the rear-door of the bus (mid way down the bus on the left side I think)... Possibly NGV tanks exploded engulfing the inside of the bus.... horrific.

Classic racist response. Nope... its just a classic observation... you know, look out of your window, see something, start to recognise a pattern.... After seeing so many bald tyres on vehicles here thats definitely a pattern - but fill your boots with the racism accusation if you think that scores you a win.

Outstanding set up... If you dont mind me asking - how much would you estimate the 'whole set up fee' to be (ingoring cost of cars)... For solar cells, batteries etc ??? IMO - there is scope for 'community power'... i.e. All houses within a Moo-baan use their roof space for a battery.... And they batteries are 'interlinked' people use their own batteries, but they also feed a communal battery with excess' juice that others can rely on at reduced usage rates. That should work for houses etc... but perhaps on Condos'.... but then, what about the cladding on condo's could that be made 'aesthetically pleasing' as solar cells ? But... bigger issue IMO - how long does a solar installation last ? what is the cost of recycling ? are we heading for another environmental issue with decommissioning millions of tonnes of expired solar cells... and also batteries ? Is the 'environmental' can being kicked down the road instead of dealing with the end game now with 'carbon recapture' ?

Agreed... But what of all the people in an Condo... In area's of high footfall where car use is greatly elevated per SqKM ?... I guess public transport is the true answer.... (as per the quote: “A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It’s where the rich use public transportation")... But... In Cities - there such as Bangkok, Solar cannot power the cars, a great surcharge in demand for electricity at night time is going to cause issues... Will transformers blow when all cars plug in for the night ? Out in area's of less density, there is a dual win - both room for solar and the population sparsity means less demand on the power grid when 'everyone in the area plugs in in EV over night'...

Yours is of course a great set up... This is not an anti-EV comment... (our next car will very likely be EV, because I think they are a now good product)... But I'm not under any pretence that they are 'cleaner'... But... for the most part are these EV's being charged and contributing to the 'CO2' issue rather than resolving it ? China's coal production and consumption has tripped in the last 10 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_China#/media/File:China-energy-consumption-by-source.svg

Montri is the very 'service' in question. I wrote to the school who passed on my e-mail directly too them... asking their various policies... The school probably thought I was over-doing it from a safety perspective, but I really didn't care... A few standouts... - Child seats: Its the Childs responsibility not the companies (poor response, but the meant its the parents responsibility to provide child seats which we did and the teacher agreed to ensure the kids were in their seats properly). - Seat belts are 3 point - Busses and vans are diesel only - Drunk driving (this response was so very typically Thai)... paraphrasing: "we test our drivers for drink each morning, if they are drunk they are suspended for the day"... (I was left astonished)... I'm sure I can dig out the e-mail response from them somewhere if you want me to PM it to you.

This is a video (posted on x) of the early stages of the incident. The bus-driver (photo below - blue stripes) - did not run away after all... though he escaped the vehicle and had time to run and get a fire extinguisher from 'somewhere'... Though - what I don't understand is if he could get out and get across the road, why could the kids not also get out.... The 'front door of the bus could open - but the back door of the bus would not open - he tried to et something, but could not open the door'.... Could the fire extinguisher - that we see the driver carrying back not have been used to smash the windows (I know - 20/20 hindsight). Someone was videoing this on their phone, instead of doing something... They could have pulled their car next to the bus, stood on the roof... smashed the windows etc...

Brake failure....

True... But other than being used to 'smash the windows' (as the main door would not open) I don't think it would have made much difference. If I'm not mistaken - the bus had a blowout (front left) then took a while to stop... I suspect the LGV tanks were somehow damaged while the bus scraped either the floor, or the barrier. (this is a discussion forum to exchange ideas and thoughts - and obviously the comment above is just my my guess of what may have happened based on the videos and numerous inputs on Thai social media etc... ... Kwilco will come along soon and tell me how I'm wrong and he knows more than everyone else)

Yep... that happens with my kids too... I had concerns that this meant they 'blasted through' everywhere... but one of the parents (neurotic) also followed and reported back to the 'mums' that the drivers were safe. On my Son's first field trip (he was 3 or 4) I questioned the use of child safety seats in the busses - and received a very disappointing response (International School).

It's so sad that people seem to think they are so much better by making assumptions about an incident when there is no accident report or any evidence to support that opion a..it's just an opportunity for bigotry and racism. Or the experience of being here on a daily basis and witnessing the very issues ourselves. You call it bigotry and racism... we call it observation. When I drive and pull up next to a lorry, a bus, any large vehicle and see the state of the tyres its a very common observation to see what a poor state they are in. It is also common knowledge that tyres here are often left over-inflated - there are numerous reports of forum members having had to 'let air out' of their tyres after a replacement to set them at their correct pressure. These observations do no exist in a void and why they are unfair as 'generalisations' when something such as this occurs and caused by a 'tyre blow out' - bringing into suspicion quality of the tyres on the vehicle is an extremely valid point void of any bigotry or racism, and born of nothing more than familiarity with where we are and how so many rules are violated...

you have no idea what went on - you are just making up stories to make yourself fell better - just hope the same never happens so you have to "prove" yourself. No... It was reported that the bus driver got out (later videos show him 'trying' to help with a fire extinguisher) but why not just get all the kids out at that time through the same door ???? I know you like to be the only person on a thread who can possibly comprehend how an accident may have occurred. I know you like to be the only person on a thread who can possibly comprehend human nature and how people react. But, you are also the only person on a thread who consistently acts like a grade A1 womble with their warbling in such matters highlighting an encyclopaedic text book knowledge of an insurance adjustor and nothing of human nature

No - but I've seen photos of the bus with LPG / LNG tanks. There were also reports that the front left wheel had a blowout - this much seems correct. There were reports of an impact with a 'bridge' or one of the over-pass columns... this is not true, videos of the area show no possible impact point. Once a fire broke out - drive escaped leaving the kids in the van. It was reported in Thai media that the teachers escaped (I'm guessing via the drivers door). It was reported the main door would not open (kids were found piled up at the door). There is a video with people / early 'arrivers at the scene' with a fire-extinguisher... 20/20 hindsight suggests they should have used the extinguisher to smash the bus windows for the kids to escape. One thing for sure - Driver doing a running - he needs to be burned a stake. Teachers escaping before the kids (if true) - need to be burned a stake. and of course.... any future legislation needs to be enforced really this time - No wooden bus frames - No LNG / LGV public vehicles - All such vehicles need a yearly MOT for road worthiness (tyres breaks etc). So very very tragic - but as many issues in such events, so many issues to address. The problem with pointinout out such issues before something happens is we are accused of being a 'crazed paranoid whakjob' or a trouble maker... Within the week, we'll have a another bus rolling down a ravine. A truck taking out a line of cars due to brake failure. A pick-up crossing the median and having a head on collision with an oncoming family vehicle. An HGV without lighting doing a U-turn in the pitch dark and getting hit by a speeding vehicle. A speed boat island hopping flipping over and occupants drowning. Roof collapse (somewhere in a large building) A crane collapse at some construction site. Part of the Rama II over-pass collapsing. Dog (most likley a 'pittie') killing its owner or guest. One mate shooting another during a drunk argument they can't remember.