richard_smith237

13 hours ago, JoseThailand said:

I hope 7-11 can go cashless one day

Why ?..... 

You want everyone to have the inconvenience of not having choice ?

25 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Thin skinned because someone wants to flex about shopping at IKEA?

If you think shopping at IKEA is a flex - thats your ridiculous notion, no one else's !!

25 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Hilarious.  You just demonstrated the same thing that you previously denied.
 

Nobody needs to justify themselves for paying however they want.

What have I previously denied exactly ?

Throughout this thread, from the second comment on this thread - I've stated both options (cash and digital payment) should be available for all customers.

If you can't read the comments and draw flawed assumptions, thats your failing.

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

16 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I find myself neither strictly pro-cash nor anti-cashless; I simply believe in a more measured approach that both options always remain available. 

 

I'm pro both cash and digital payments and have repeated through-out this thread that both should be available options.

 

So you are not anti-cashless, but you are pro both cash and digital? 😆

 

Quite the position...

Why ??? 

....are you only capable of a binary approach ???  are you one of those who struggle with a nuane and neglect a balanced perspective instead seeking to label others as either fully for or against ???

What is wrong with suggesting that both cashless and digital payments should be an option ????

Did you give your response any thought at all ?

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

As am I  - I'm also for using balanced well through out arguments in support or against an option and find many of the anti-digital payment arguments quite broken and flawed thats all, they can be countered so easily that they weaken a point rather than strengthen it.

 

 

Seems you just want to be pedantic. 

 

So how about the biggest argument of all?

 

If we go cashless you can be turned off at the push of a button. This isn't a loony conspiracy. It already happened in Canada to the truckers. Protest against the government and get turned off. If that doesn't open your eyes then nothing will. But hey, it might save you a couple of seconds at the checkout. 

 

Reminds me of the title of the album "Give me convenience or give me death".

 

Might I suggest you consider my points with a deeper understanding?

I am not opposed to the cashless system; rather, I question the flawed arguments often put forward. I fully support the availability of all options - cash and cashless.

The challenge with discussions on topics like this is the tendency towards binary thinking.

People often struggle to embrace nuance and instead seek to label others as either fully for or against, neglecting the possibility of a balanced perspective.

I find myself neither strictly pro-cash nor anti-cashless; I simply believe in a more measured approach that both options always remain available. 

I'm pro both cash and digital payments and have repeated through-out this thread that both should be available options.

7 minutes ago, Airalee said:

Yes.  Read the whole thread.  We are being called dinosaurs.  Told we are incapable of assembling a simple piece of furniture (I prefer quality furniture myself), and expected to have some sort of argument as to why we prefer cash.

Ah yes... that did tickle me....  Perhaps add 'thin skinned to that then'... 

To be honest... If someone 'can't adapt to a cashless system' it might highlight a certain 'aged nature' or at least a stubbornness not to adapt.

That said - I've already highlighted that its anyone's right to have their preference and not need to justify it with flawed, weak and broken arguments.

7 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I’ll let you read up on the studies of those who pay cash vs cashless.

You'll let me ???....   erm... thanks I think !!... 

Its rather an empty statement, it actually says nothing at all...     

IF there are studies for Thailand, what do they show ? - do you have a link for this study that I have your permission to read ??? - any that would benefit the discussion ?

It would be interesting to know - especially in a country such as Thailand how many use digital vs cash payments (and what sort of digital) - I quoted a guess of 90% cashless earlier, but could be way off... it could be 99% or 50% I have no idea.

Just now, josephbloggs said:

Funnily enough I just popped into Bartels for a sandwich and my Bangkok Bank app wouldn't work - first time ever - and I only carry small motorbike taxi cash. But my Bangkok Bank debit card worked, no drama. And if it didn't one of my credit cards would have worked.

I think the Bangkok Bank App itself is one of the worst with regards to reliability... 

I've found that at midnight it often goes offline or payment won't get processed - I've had bar staff tell me they often encounter this issue with Bangok Bank... 

Kasikorn on the other account has been seamless - so I use that all the time now.

But, just like you, I have the Bank card and a credit card so its not as if there is no backup - so no drama.

4 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

The 'cash' is going to end up digital anyway... Its not as if the companies store cash in a vault... 

 

True but why make it easier for hackers?

How is you or I paying with a card or QR code making it easier for hackers ??

90% (guess) of people are already using cashless payment - so from that perspective, pandoras box is already open.

I only see your argument as being valid if we were to go back to 100% cash payment...

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Bias - how many times are you stuck behind 'some old granny' ???...   

 

Well, I can never be sure if they have grandchildren, but slow people? quite often. Quite a few people seem to struggle with it. I prefer the system in the UK where you just hold the card up to the machine. Tap and Go. Far superior to the QR code phone app nonsense.  

Those same 'characters' who are slow to use their QR code, are also slow to get their purse or wallet out and then dig for cash - I don't think QR or digital payments change that... They are the same 'type of person' who get to their front door, then dig around for their keys !!!!

The 'Tap and Go' system exists in Thailand now....    and I agree, its better than the QR system.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

More often than not, its someone who just flashes their QR code, or scans a QR and make payment faster than dealing with cash...   

 

Showing your bias again.

Yes... I did highlight that in my comment when I wrote:

<<That might be my bias but I find it much quicker anywhere I've used QR payment... >>

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I agree...   I believe we should never lose cash, so from the perspective of 'use it or lose it' I would vote to always maintain the option of 'cash payments'  and I think thats a strong enough argument on its own.

 

Which was my main point. I am not against Tap and Go, but cash needs to remain an option. 

100% agree - thats been my point all along - no need for weak arguments and flawed anecdote.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

 

12 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

.... All the other arguments used against digital payment can be so readily picked apart they weaken the argument rather than contribute any additional validity or strength to the points being made (your 'granny argument' being a perfect example).

 

 

Strawman. I'm not against digital payments (if they are implemented right). I actually like Monzo cards where you can put a couple of hundred quid on it for a night out and so if you lose it then it's no big deal, unlike losing a bank a credit card. 

 

I am against removing cash as an option.

As am I  - I'm also for using balanced well through out arguments in support or against an option and find many of the anti-digital payment arguments quite broken and flawed thats all, they can be countered so easily that they weaken a point rather than strengthen it.

3 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

It is amazing that companies want to go cashless. With all the hacking and scamming going on cashless will only increase it. Before anyone says it wont let me explain. With cashless transactions your data is recorded digitally. Hackers will go after that. I know someone is going to say it will be secured so they cant, well there is no such thing as cant when it comes to hacking. If the USA Federal reserve can be hacked I am pretty sure companies can be.

The 'cash' is going to end up digital anyway... Its not as if the companies store cash in a vault... 

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I don’t care how people pay for their stuff.   But….it always seems to be the cashless crowd that denigrates those who prefer cash and not the other way around.  Why is that?

Has anyone thrown any criticism at those who prefer to use cash ?

I've criticised the flaws in some of the arguments, but not the choice to prefer cash payments.

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I’d love to see the stats of people who pay cash vs cashless and how much debt they carry.

When paying with a QR code or debit card it subtracts from the account direct - so cashless payment is no different. 

The only form of 'cashless payment' that puts someone in debt could be payment via 'credit-card' - its somewhat different from the 'cashless topic'... 

2 minutes ago, Airalee said:

I shouldn’t need “an argument” for paying cash.  It’s not even worthy of a conversation let alone a debate.

100% - any customer should have the freedom of choice - thats just basic customer service IMO.

4 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I like paying with cash. And I don't do impulse buying. I plan ahead if I'm going shopping for something and usually carry sufficient cash with me. Usually, that means keeping 10,000 or 12,000 in my wallet. In malls I usually have Bangkok Bank or SCB branches available (although the number of SCB branches has declined drastically in my area) if I need a larger amount. At any rate, I always try to have enough cash on me to get by as the circumstances require. For example, during electrical outages the 7 Eleven will take out a clipboard, a cashbox, and continue to do transactions until the power resumes. Cash is just faster and more convenient than any other method for me.

"I like paying with cash" - is a strong enough argument on its own I think...      customers should simply be allowed to pay how they prefer - IMO thats good business practice... 

The 'power outage' argument I've heard before...   really, how often is that for it to be a valid argument... 

Besides, if the power is out to a block (i.e. out in 7-11) the power can also be out for a set of ATM's...  Thus that argument has its own flaws...

As mentioned above: .... <<  All the other arguments used against digital payment can be so readily picked apart they weaken the argument rather than contribute any additional validity or strength to the points being made (your 'granny argument' being a perfect example) >>

Thus: the "I like paying with cash" argument is already strong enough IMO - customer preferences are important and you shouldn't have to justify why you have one preference over another - its your preference and your right without any justification.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This is one of those 'dumb arguments' against cash-less QR payments...   Its not slower than paying with cash, I find it faster.

 

It's not 'dumb'. It depends on who is using the phone. If it's some old granny it can take what seems like decades. And that's just them typing the passcode.

Bias - how many times are you stuck behind 'some old granny' ???...   

More often than not, its someone who just flashes their QR code, or scans a QR and make payment faster than dealing with cash...   

That might be my bias but I find it much quicker anywhere I've used QR payment... 

ApplePay and contactless payments (tapping the card or phone) are even quicker.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

additionally - when making a QR payment you don't have to give anyone your phone number... 

 

 

 

I'm aware of that. But they always do because they want their "member points" or whatever. The 2 are not related but it further delays what shoyuld be a simple process. 

As you indicated - Giving the phone number is for membership points and completely unrelated to cashless payment...  thus using such an argument to object to cashless payments is flawed.

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

But you're missing the whole point. If we go cashless you can simply be "turned off" at the push of a button like Trudeau did to the truckers. Plus I don't really want the state having more access to my personal life than they already do. 

I agree...   I believe we should never lose cash, so from the perspective of 'use it or lose it' I would vote to always maintain the option of 'cash payments'  and I think thats a strong enough argument on its own.

.... All the other arguments used against digital payment can be so readily picked apart they weaken the argument rather than contribute any additional validity or strength to the points being made (your 'granny argument' being a perfect example).

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Remember when their selling points were, it's cheaper to operate, so the savings will be passed on to you.   But yet, there's monthly fees for plastic, and usage fees.

IF it costs the stores less not to have cash-payment, then the savings from those efficiencies can be passed on to the customer - though I doubt they will knock any money of every items as a direct result, but it will likely accounted for as part of the bigger picture of being efficient and keeping prices competetive.

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

 

Not to mention, it simply adds to inflation, if you have to pay 3% and or vendor pays 3%, then to keep their profit margin, up the prices.

3% is for Master and Debit Cards - QR payment (is currently free).

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm more concerned about real 'freedoms'; speech or whatever.  

 

"you didn't get vax'd, your account is suspended"  

 

"Your Senator needs a kidney, and you have an extra, your account has been suspended" 

 

"you've been deem a social disturbance, nuisance, your account has been suspended for 2 weeks"

 

Sort of like posting on AN 

Rather silly arguments...  a bit too 1984 for anything outside of the 'off the beaten path' sub-forum.

17 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Yea, just this minute opened up my Bangkok Bank phone app and got a message they are experiencing "high transaction volume at this moment. Please try again later." Never have that problem with cash in my wallet or even with ATM machines.

I just encountered exactly the same message when opening my BKK Bank App - it would be an annoyance when trying to pay, but one I'd get over very quickly when paying with the debit card from the same Bangkok Bank account instead... 

(5 Mins later - the App is working normally BTW)

But, carrying around 20,000 Baht cash all the time is also inconvenient... (or however much we need to cover the cost of digital spending).

I have been to plenty of ATM machines that are 'out of order' - but usually there is another nearby, so that cancels that issue, out - just as the issue of the Bangkok Bank App hanging, there is another option (card) that we can move onto very quickly....

All payment methods area also imperfect at times and have their inconveniences...   we all have back-up options don't we ?? (debit, credit cards, PromptPay, more than one account etc).

4 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Always the same tired argument. It's always the "cash is king" paranoid / old fashioned brigade who are so unlucky at check out counters!

You never ever, of course, get stuck behind people fumbling in their wallets for their money, then waiting while the cashier counts it a couple of times, then watching and waiting as they ring it up and then count the change three times before handing it back to the customer to then put back in their wallet before finally moving on. That happens to me literally every single time I go shopping anywhere and it takes a minimum of 15 minutes per person, just like your made up person has to tell their phone number three times and take five extraordinary minutes to pay for a bar of chocolate.  And then I have to put that filthy sweaty grubby money away with my nice clean hands.

Personally I much prefer cashless but I do think shops should keep both options. I just wish we had Apple pay and the like here as it is even quicker.

Absolutely agree - the excuses often used against digital payment options are extremely myopic and very poor examples of reality. 

The only valid argument I have seen against business going cashless is that we may end up without cash completely and I don't think anyone wants to be in that situation - its better to have all options open to us, digital and cash payments.

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

Yeah I love waiting behind someone finding/playing with their phone for 5 minutes to pay for a bar of chocolate. 

 

Especially when they have to tell the cashier their phone number 3 times. 

This is one of those 'dumb arguments' against cash-less QR payments...   Its not slower than paying with cash, I find it faster.

additionally - when making a QR payment you don't have to give anyone your phone number... 

Taking pets to a vet to get them 'chipped' is an extreme measure... 

There are simpler solutions to the 'Soi dog' issues that Thailand faces... 

All dogs must have a collar - those found roaming the streets without a collar will be removed. 

Owners (of dogs with a collar) will be charged for any incident involving their pet on public land (i.e. people getting bitten) , and the dog will be removed.

Owners (of dogs with a collar) will be charged if their dog is found on public land.

That 'should' ensure all dogs are kept secured on private land, any soi dogs or strays on public land will be removed....

... now, if only they could do this across Thailand and on beaches etc.

12 minutes ago, Burma Bill said:

Easy - load up a trolley with furniture kits and wheel to the check-out.

Offer cash and when refused, walk away leaving all the kits stacked at the checkout point.

IKEA will soon get the message!

Some people live in a world of utter delusion !!...  

You would do all of that just to make a point that no one will take notice of anyway.

As Patong2021 wrote - IKEA are already listening to the market, and while I disagree with the business practice they are employing, your 'one man protest' would be extremely juvenile. 

7 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

That does not change my experience I have with that company.

There arre better ones....

Which ones...     Given cost vs quality - IKEA were an excellent option when we built our kitchen... 

Other options were homePro, Index, Boonthavorn...    IKEA was better (IMO of course) - though we used Boonthavorn for our countertop as IKEA sourced from them anyway and added their markup.

I understand opinions and experiences vary, but also understand we 'see what we want to see' i.e. you are under the impression all the prices have increased by 20%.. I have not seen that, but will admit I'm not a regular IKEA shopper anyway... so unless we are there every month, how will we notice the change of prices ?

I suspect its something of a more 'impression' and 'bias' based rather than factually based opinion.

13 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

IKEA has a Point of Sale data system that can  turn out detailed reports on the volume of customers who transact use electronic means, and the value of each transaction. If the consumer is a member of Ikea Family discount program, then Ikea has  demographic data  like age, type of dwelling, and location of the customer. Customers can pay with  Visa, Mastercard, PromptPay, True Money Wallet Pay  and Line Pay.   However, Ikea  is not using Apple Pay, Google Pay or Samsung's  version.

All this to say, they have a good idea where they can go to electronic payments without a problem and where they need to keep the  cash registers.   Going electronic will reduce physical  crime like holdup and  direct theft of cash by  employees. It will also   facilitate administration and I can see  a few  jobs in cash accounting being eliminated.

 

Understood and agree with all of that... 

Though those metrics often overlook the 'personal touch' some will feel ostracised - and that alone I think is poor business practice. 

IKEA obviously know what they are doing, I can't argue with that logic: However, I would like to see businesses 'showing they care'... 

... But as you say, perhaps they don't care about losing customers such as Khun LA and others who will avoid a place that excludes cash-payment - were they ever going to shop at IKEA in the first place anyway ?

7 minutes ago, Peterphuket said:

Regarding driving up prices, that is correct, from the beginning when Ikea started in Thailand the prices were reasonable and in line with Thailand's pricing policy.
After 2 or 3 years when they were assured of sales and revenue, prices went up by 20% on average for no reason.
Due to the fact that their head office is in the Netherlands, I complained about this, but arrogantly I was referred back to Thailand.

 

IKEA Thailand actually slashed many of its prices by 25% under its "More Value, Less Spend" strategy...

https://thereporter.asia/eng/2025/02/ikea-thailand-strategy

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Won't be shopping there, or any vendor that requires cashless vs cash.

Thats been my point - perhaps you are not there target customer anyway - but why would they put a policy in place that deliberately ostracises 'possible' customers such as yourself ?

The question would then be asked - IF you 'needed' something from IKEA, would you know how to make a digital payment - in which case you are just being stubborn - as going to an ATM and withdrawing cash, then paying with cash involves more hassle than a QR transfer or debit / credit card payment.

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Cash = Freedom.   Once they go all cashless, you WILL lose any remaining freedoms you think you have.

Agreed - which is why I think its important to keep cash...  for as soon as we don't have cash as an option, I'm sure the cost of Digital payment will increase... 

i.e. MasterCard / Visa already charge 3%... PromptPay is currently free... But when cashless is the only option, will a charge be added to that ? at which point we become stuck with minimum payments ?

I don't think cash will disappear in our life times, particularly for 'small' daily payments... But for shopping, malls, supermarkets etc... we might see a move to digital only.

Realistically - we're already 99% digital payment - the only time I pay with cash now is a flag-fall taxi and the odd 'beer-bar'...