rockingrobin

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

The prosecution never denied it the defense did.

Or did you expect the police to come out and say we have found the murder victims dna on the hoe, because I think that was pretty obvious to most people.

DiscoDan

The prosecution we didnt test the handle of the hoe for dna, but instead looked for fingerprints.

Then when the defense did re-test the hoe handle for dna they found Davids dna, along with others.

The prosecution then said well actually we found Davids dna on the handle as well

So again why would the prosecution deny testing the handle of the hoe

Sing along...The handle and the hoe, the handle and the hoe, let's all mix up the handle and the hoe.

Hoe has handle. Hoe has business end, called hoe. David DNA on business end. No matches of sampled suspects DNA on handle.

Maybe convicted use cloth. Cloth not found. Convicted clothes missing. Maybe convicted use clothes.

And why or why did they have to forward the dna to determine it was asian ethnicity 20 days after the B2 arrest

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

The prosecution never denied it the defense did.

Or did you expect the police to come out and say we have found the murder victims dna on the hoe, because I think that was pretty obvious to most people.

DiscoDan

The prosecution we didnt test the handle of the hoe for dna, but instead looked for fingerprints.

Then when the defense did re-test the hoe handle for dna they found Davids dna, along with others.

The prosecution then said well actually we found Davids dna on the handle as well

So again why would the prosecution deny testing the handle of the hoe

Unlike what you think , the Arabs come to Bangkok because the best private hospitals are here, at least better than in their own countries. Just visit Samitivej or Bumrungrad, there are queues of Arab families there waiting for treatment.

They need a place to sleep for maybe 1-2 weeks and can't afford to pay 2-3000 baht per night. It makes sense.

Dubai is one of the most developed cities in the world. Are you telling me that they can build the world's tallest building, some pretty impressive 12 lane expressways but can't manage to build a hospital good enough so they have to resort to coming to a third world country for medical treatment?

That's just absurd. If they're coming for the lady boys or to get drunk, go to a gay bar and have a check up on the side, OK. Maybe for a 60,000 Baht nose job too. But for general medical reasons? Come on...

Having the best buildings doesnt equate to having quality personnal

DiscoDan

What was the purpose of the prosecution denying testing the handling of the hoe ?

I agree that Thailand's official religion should be declared as Buddhism. Frankly, I'm surprised this isn't already the case. Even the CIA World Factbook lists Buddhism as Thailand's state religion. The sooner this is done, the better for the country. Keeping this status quo going could be very dangerous for Thailand in the future, especially the south, which could split along ethnic and religious lines otherwise.

Making Buddhism the official religion of Thailand will make no difference to the situation in the south.

What makes you say that? Although I agree with you that it wouldn't be readily accepted.

Your post implies that if Buddhism is made the official language of Thailand then that somehow will change the situation in the south, I assumed you are referring to the southern insurgents

I fail to see how that would be and ask you to explain

I agree that Thailand's official religion should be declared as Buddhism. Frankly, I'm surprised this isn't already the case. Even the CIA World Factbook lists Buddhism as Thailand's state religion. The sooner this is done, the better for the country. Keeping this status quo going could be very dangerous for Thailand in the future, especially the south, which could split along ethnic and religious lines otherwise.

Making Buddhism the official religion of Thailand will make no difference to the situation in the south.

You do make a habit out of interceding in these discussions pleading ignorace of pro-defence evidence whilst showing strong bias toward the prosucution case, don't you. Go back and read the case history if you are genuinely interested in educating yourself about the other medical report and witness (and other matters). You won't have to keep jumping in pleading ignorance then, will you? Or, if you're not prepared to do that, stop embarrassing yourself by advertising your ignorance on these threads.

Judges are inclined to accept police hearsay in Thai court cases. That's how the system works, and is the main reason why (as even one of Thailand's most senior police officers conceded) a very large percentage of Thailand's prison inmates are innocent of the crimes for which they were incarcerated.

Besmirch the character of a prosecution witness in a case that is clearly riddled with corruption and police deception/lies? You're having a laugh, aren't you?

Are you for real or just looking to inflame things with such a response. Sorry, not biting but it's amazing when someone puts something to you, it is evident that you do not like being questioned, so it must be either it's your way or the highway. Do you find it too hard or it is that either you cannot or will not answer and to avoid doing so you turn your response into a personal attack.

You are very practiced at avoiding answering questions but you method and manner says it all. I will not fall into you little trap by making this a personal attack on you, other than to reiterate that it is evident where the bias lies. Biased. Do you know the meaning of the word, given what you have written, it doesn't appear you do.

And further, I do not need educating and I am neither ignorant or an embarrassment to myself but according to you, I fit all three categories because I have dared questioning certain aspects of your post. I have never indicated that the police case was all it should be and have never condoned anything untoward that has arisen throughout that inquiry. But you seem to have all the answers, yet cannot respond when questions are put to you.

Maybe you should read everything, as in you haste to decry what I have written, you left out that I also included the judge/s, whose character you have also besmirched. And the only laugh I am having is at the joker who pretends he knows all, is always right, so woe betide anyone who questions him. We all learn something new everyday and this is by observing, reading and asking questions, maybe you should practise a little humility, as we are not right all of the time, just some of the time.

You assume no prosecution persons lie under oath as Khun Han said you should educate yourself first.

In court today, one of the main police investigators, Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nurod, said he had spoken to the police pathologist on the 2nd and 3rd of October, at the same time as the defendants were arrested and two weeks after the autopsies, but otherwise he had no further contact with him.

However, the defence lawyers representing the two Myanmar workers produced a statement from the pathologist, stating that Lt Col Nurod had made two separate trips to meet with him in Bangkok in late October, and again on the November 18 after both defendants had retracted their confessions.

The pathologist’s statement said that the meetings had included discussion on the hair found in Ms Witheridge’s hand.

When challenged in court, Lt Col Nurod admitted that further discussion about the hair strand had indeed taken place, but he did not reveal exactly what was said.

Source: http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/senior_police_officers_give_contradictory_evidence_at_hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_1_4215995?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

The denials and backtracks seemed a common trait throughout the whole episode

Evidence lost/used up / not lost everything available

Didnt examine cctv/ Yes we did

Didnt test the handle of the Hoe for dna / well actually we did and found Davids dna on the handle

No contact with the pathalogist after 3rd Oct / Yes I did, but im not telling you

Concerning the torture claims they said they were stripped naked put in freezing room (in the tropics), had their balls flicked, punched in the fac,e kicked in the chest, suffocated, threatened to have limbs cut off, threatened to be dumped in the sea etc etc.

Then claim they could not take it anymore so confessed

But then they also say the reason they confessed was because the policeman said if you confess you will do only 4 years in prison.

So which one was it ?

What was the recommended sentence requested by the RTP in its original 300 page file to the prosecutor

As for the torture claims , the prosecution witness acknowledged injuries along with a cellmate

I was being sarcastic there is a good chance it was Hannah and David

Not to sound impertinent Disco, I am still confused, you claim your post was sarcastic , and then say it was a good chance it was Hannah and David

OK I will try to put it another way , in MM statement he said there was an English or western couple at some point. What do you make of the statement

The B3 were all together on the beach WP & ZL claim they did not see anyone but they could see fire jugglers down the beach yet MM also saw a western couple that the B2 didn't.

So we now know there was a western couple near them when they were on the beach even though WP & ZL claimed there wasn't

get it ?

Actually I still dont get it

Although in the article MM says there is a western couple , he never actually states if this whilst they are all together , or after he goes back to the beach after visiting his girlfriend

As I have said before Laura has a right to say what she has if she says she or her parents witnessed any of these remarks the judges made I will believe her.

Just as I trust what the Millers said because they sat through the trial.

I don't doubt for one second she has had threatening phone and I don't doubt she has been followed in her car the question is by who ?

But I know the women that refer to 2 possible killers as Cute, adorable etc will do anything to have these 2 men found innocent even if it means damaging a family that has already been through an awful experience.

The Millers' speak Thai do they? And how come they had a written statement ready before the verdict was announced?

No have you never heard of translators ? do the Witheridge's speak Thai ?

Maybe if you paid a bit more attention to the case you would know the verdict was delivered long after the trial ended they could of had two statements one if found guilty and one if not found guilty.

As some people think that thai courts should have a jury lets look at it this way.

3 votes from the Miller family guilty

1 vote from Laura (will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one as she has not come straight out and said she believes they are innocent.

2 votes Witheridge parents abstained as they have not said either way.

So I make that 3-1 and thats not including Davids friend who also think the verdict is just.

Disco maybe you could point the RTP in the direction of some good translators

Why not david? ??

What stands out for me is why are the defense no longer whining on about getting dna from UK. Could it be the end of the road for them?

Could it be they know exactly what would be in a dna report?

Is it possible that the UK does in fact have dna from hannah ?

What a pity thailand has a death sentence. Who knows what little gems they have on this case.

I think they didn't realize I was being sarcastic when I said there was no chance the western couple Maung Maung saw could be Hannah and David.

So seems they are not contesting that the dna matches.

So they will have to explain how it is possible to do a dna test incorrectly and still manage to get 2 matches from a mixed dna sample.

DiscoDan

MM statement about a western couple , like Greenchair I dont understand whu iy cannot be David and Hannah

I was being sarcastic there is a good chance it was Hannah and David

Not to sound impertinent Disco, I am still confused, you claim your post was sarcastic , and then say it was a good chance it was Hannah and David

OK I will try to put it another way , in MM statement he said there was an English or western couple at some point. What do you make of the statement

Why not david? ??

What stands out for me is why are the defense no longer whining on about getting dna from UK. Could it be the end of the road for them?

Could it be they know exactly what would be in a dna report?

Is it possible that the UK does in fact have dna from hannah ?

What a pity thailand has a death sentence. Who knows what little gems they have on this case.

I think they didn't realize I was being sarcastic when I said there was no chance the western couple Maung Maung saw could be Hannah and David.

So seems they are not contesting that the dna matches.

So they will have to explain how it is possible to do a dna test incorrectly and still manage to get 2 matches from a mixed dna sample.

DiscoDan

MM statement about a western couple , like Greenchair I dont understand whu iy cannot be David and Hannah

That's fine but keep it to themselves. There are others that don't want to see or hear from/of it. But continuously through out the years most 'non- believers " have to put up with some person of 'faith" bothering them in one way or another, trying to get them on board and believe in this propaganda.

You can liken it to someone who smokes cigarettes. Yes, it is legal to do so and is a personal choice. Yet a large portion of smokers don't give dame about non-smokers. And suck away on their ciggy profusely , blowing smoke in other peoples faces and not giving a damn about who they are bothering or their right to breath smoke free air.

Yep, just as those who spread their intolerance towards faiths should keep their prejudices to themselves.

Yep. There is a flip side to that coin. Those that spread "faith" [a preposterous word in itself] should kerb their obsessive regime of enforcing it upon those of us that don't want to know about it. Whether it be through trespassing during door knocking operations or blowing themselves and everybody around them up in a market place.

They spread their faith through violence and not through peaceful means whereby a person's opinion is respected.

Go read on how muslims forced others to convert while christians have ppl that want to spread christianity and convert others like evangelicals but so far they have not really been violent about it.

http://www.usna.edu/Users/history/abels/hh315/crusades_timeline.htm

Due to age and height I only go Business now and for the last 3 years have flown Finnair.

Very reasonable cost and it's not a long stopover. Looking forward to the new A350 this year.

However, being honest I would prefer a direct and have noticed EVA sales that come much closer in cost so this year have used up most of my points for a economy/upgraded to Business on Finnair and may go with EVA next.

Depending if you are flying one way or return , it can be cheaper to add another flight bon the ticket.

Example

I intended to fly with finnair business class from Manchester to Bkk one way , the cost was £1400

If you added an additional stop then the price came to £900, same dates ,aeroplane and time

The route booked was Man -Bkk , and the BKK to SGN 2 months later as a multi city

Starting a flight in the UK is expensive due to the additional tax imposed, you can usually find cheaper flight flying from another EU country , e.g. amsterdam, paris etc

Of course not all Muslims are bad most are peaceful people BUT listen to this video an this answers the situation perfectly.......

When someone prefaces their answer with an outrageous exaggeration (basically a lie) of 25% 'radicals', the rest of the false argument is meaningless.

Even military spokespeople estimate the core of IS in the 10s of thousands and no one has come up with any researched figure on extremists in other countries.

It is another fallacy that Muslims in Thailand want to destroy Buddhism which seems to be propaganda put out by those (fascists?) who want to enshrine Buddhism as the country's state religion. There are a number of Muslim communities near where I live in Bangkok and they live in harmony with their Buddhist neighbours.

PS: Kudos to Bluespunk for tackling so much bigotry.

Yes an by your own admission "no one has come up with any researched figures" SO therefore you yourself cannot call it lies because you yourself dont know.

There defo is a problem tho

What I found distasteful in the video is the Muslim asked a question of how can we fight an ideology. The response was just a tirade of vitriolic rhetoric about how a minority from every culture at some point in history inflicted terrible and horrendous atrocities. There was no answer given but a propaganda speech

Finnair business is always reasonably priced and you get an allowance of a couple of bags.

Just flown Finnair business class, 3 bags allowed ,

Yep, you're right. Were you on the A350 ?

Yeh, the reverse herringbone seats. the overall experience was ok , the lounge at Helsinki a bit overcrowded, but thats down to all the asian flights leaving at the same time

Why not david? ??

What stands out for me is why are the defense no longer whining on about getting dna from UK. Could it be the end of the road for them?

Could it be they know exactly what would be in a dna report?

Is it possible that the UK does in fact have dna from hannah ?

What a pity thailand has a death sentence. Who knows what little gems they have on this case.

I think they didn't realize I was being sarcastic when I said there was no chance the western couple Maung Maung saw could be Hannah and David.

So seems they are not contesting that the dna matches.

So they will have to explain how it is possible to do a dna test incorrectly and still manage to get 2 matches from a mixed dna sample.

What do you mean not contesting the match?

The evidence presented to the court said their profiles matched I have not seen the defense claim they don't so in the appeal they will only be able to contest how dna was collected tested etc. but not the fact that even after all these mistakes they have meant to have made they still came up with a match.

Your reasoning and logic defies me.

' they will only be able to contest how dna was collected tested etc'

If they are contesting how the dna was tested , then it follows that the result of the contested testing is being challenged.

Finnair business is always reasonably priced and you get an allowance of a couple of bags.

Just flown Finnair business class, 3 bags allowed ,

Have a play with itmatrix,

"She disclosed that the rice stored in some warehouses was different from type put on auction."

"Or in the latest case, we put on auction sticky rice. But the buyers found out they were rotten rice,"...

There simply is no cure for ignorance and stupidity. Poor Thailand.

not sure I get your meaning

It would appear that what is in the warehouses is not what is supposed to be there and there could be a few possible reasons for that, just as well those responsible for putting the rice there are in the dock facing charges

Did the coup leaders not order a full inventory of the stocked rice when they assumed power

' One of his first orders following the May 22 coup was for the authorities to count and audit rice tonnage in the state's stocks and hold off on offloading them to prevent a further price slump.'

http://www.wsj.com/articles/thai-rice-subsidy-leaves-junta-in-a-quandary-1403104286

Why not david? ??

What stands out for me is why are the defense no longer whining on about getting dna from UK. Could it be the end of the road for them?

Could it be they know exactly what would be in a dna report?

Is it possible that the UK does in fact have dna from hannah ?

What a pity thailand has a death sentence. Who knows what little gems they have on this case.

I think they didn't realize I was being sarcastic when I said there was no chance the western couple Maung Maung saw could be Hannah and David.

So seems they are not contesting that the dna matches.

So they will have to explain how it is possible to do a dna test incorrectly and still manage to get 2 matches from a mixed dna sample.

Disco if you were being sarcastic , fair enough, however with the placement of the '?' then it is reasonable to assume otherwise.

Greenchair this is really all noise

You asked why it could not be David , what time did MM leave the B2 on the beach

"She disclosed that the rice stored in some warehouses was different from type put on auction."

"Or in the latest case, we put on auction sticky rice. But the buyers found out they were rotten rice,"...

There simply is no cure for ignorance and stupidity. Poor Thailand.

not sure I get your meaning

It would appear that what is in the warehouses is not what is supposed to be there and there could be a few possible reasons for that, just as well those responsible for putting the rice there are in the dock facing charges

Did the coup leaders not order a full inventory of the stocked rice when they assumed power

This has been refuted a least 20 times on the various threads. Montiwat was questioned his DNA sample taken, he was NEVER "arrested" that article you post from Sept 23 was corrected the very next day Sept 24 to this...

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/63857

Police interrogated Woraphan Toovichien, 49, a village headman and owner of AC Bar which is located near the murder scene, and his brother, Montriwat Toovichien, owner of In Touch resort and caretaker of AC Bar.

Both gave good cooperation to the police and they denied they had any connection.

DNA samples of the two brothers were collecting for testing and were later proved to not match with DNA collected from the scene and the victim’s body.

And the bit you add in about " used up." DNA evidence - It was a miscommunication seized on as " evidence" the police were liars. I'd say about 80% of what I've read here on on the other threads exonerating the convicted is miscommunication and elaborations gleaned off those very same FB pages- quite the study in social media as a propagator of propaganda.

Nothing has been refuted, but plenty has been done to keep the heat off the original suspects, among others.

I have no doubt that they became very co-operative with the police, after Pol Lt-Gen Panya was removed from the case.

You might keep in mind Panya was still on the case 23/ 24th Sept.

Wai was always an original suspect from CCTV footage because it looked like him.

Run man orig.png

Here's the pic after CSI LA "enhanced" altered it and made the nose subtly more pronounced- like NOm Sod's (Tuvichien)

head running man.jpg

Here is Dear little Wai at arrest Zaw at arrest.jpg

Wai at arrest,….. Yes, that curl does resemble the one in the CCTV picture some weeks earlier, but it is but one identifying characteristic. The face is blurred, and the rest of the body has been cropped out. As with the other so called forensic evidence, it is far from clear. It could even be dear little Nomsod before he had his locks trimmed…… which he had plenty of time to do before he surfaced in Bangkok a week or so later.

Wai was not an original suspect. Panya would have been leaned on by 24 September, and is likely to have been on the way to being taken off the case by then.

AJ I have a video from a foreign news outlet , that I cannot post here that will cast doubt over the veracity of the cctv,

Will PM

To repeat

In the abscence of the B2 dna or fingerprints on the hoe, would you not think the RTP would have queried if they had used such items during their interregoration when they freely confessed, after all it is the alleged murder weapon.

And so how do you know they did not? And could have the confession been prior to when such DNA processing was completed.

Exactly you answer your own question,

No it doesn't Pretzels are for eating, not for logic except of course if you have no answer.

Question 1 : How do you know the RTP did not ask about a cloth in any interview, or confession

you said

To repeat

In the abscence [sic] of the B2 dna or fingerprints on the hoe, would you not think the RTP would have queried if they had used such items during their interregoration [sic]when they freely confessed, after all it is the alleged murder weapon.

I thought it was self explanatory and didnt require any further consideration

In the absence of any dna or fingerprint linking the B2 to the alleged weapon

If the B2 had used cloth or similiar , then when the RTP conducted the interrogation of the freely given confession , the RTP would have enquired about the handling of the hoe if it had not been already explained by the accused.

As it is not in the prosecution case , then the cloth is moot

As for the earlier point you made about the confession might have been before the hoe being tested , well this is just absurd and does not warrant an explanation