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rockingrobin
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Posts posted by rockingrobin
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Seems it would appear that the removal of rank requires approval under section 28 of the 2004 RTP Act
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From a different perspective, if the B2 are guilty of raping and mudering two young tourists why is the Koh Tao mafia helping them get away with it?
Surely in a place like Koh Tao where just a few powerful families control everything ou would expect thay they would do everything they could to make sure that a couple of Burmese guys get punished for defaming them and their island internationally.
So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage? Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated? Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming? And about a million other ways in which the local's could assist with the case against the B2 but haven't since the might of the crime.
I mean this literally happened in the headman's back garden but he is helping the B2 get away with murder. Are these two young Burmese guys so well connected with the Koh Tao mafia??
The problem with your argument is that you are begging the questions:
"So why are these families shielding the B2 by witholding CCTV footage?"
What makes you think they are doing so? that's what some of the chit-chat on Internet has speculated about, it doesn't make it true.
"Why did they wreck the crime scene before it could be properly investigated?"
This is an example of begging the question, it assumes deliberate and malicious intention by the people that arrived at the scene. Suffice to say that one of the persons being accused of disturbing the crime scene was responsible for retrieving the murder weapon back to where it was originally found, that's not the actions of someone wrecking the scene, that's the actions of someone trying to preserve it.
"Why have no local witnesses been forthcoming?"
Local witnesses were forthcoming, that's why the men on trial became suspects in the first place, someone heard three men singing in an Arakhan dialect near the scene of the crime and that eventually led to the arrest of Wai Phyo, Zaw Lin.
You may want to consider that things don't appear to make sense because you are trying to force a conclusion out of facts and assumptions that don't warrant it.
Asking someone to wash the alleged murder weapon is destroying the evidence
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Thai police used roti vendors as translators
By Michael Sainsbury
KOH SAMUI: -- Thai police used two Muslim Rohingya translators with a very poor grasp of the Thai language to interrogate two Rakhine men accused of murdering British backpackers, it was revealed in court yesterday.
One of the translators, Ko Ye, admitted to the Samui Central Court yesterday that he could not read or write Thai and barely understood the Rakhine dialect.
Under questioning from the defence, he said that he signed a statement confirming what happened in the interrogation even though he didn’t know what it said in Thai, and he wasn’t asked to sign it until a month afterward.
The two translators, both street roti sellers, were brought in by police after Ko Zaw Lin and Ko Wai Phyo, both 22, were detained on October 2, 2014. Ko Ye is from Surat Thani, while the other translator, Ko Kamar, is from Koh Tao.
The Myanmar migrant workers could face the death penalty if convicted of murdering David Miller, 24, and murdering and raping Hannah Witheridge, 23, in the early hours of September 15, 2014.
The trial is now in the third of its six weeks.
The defence maintains that the Rakhine natives are being scapegoated following a botched investigation that was rushed to clear Thailand’s marred image as a tourist paradise.
“The second roti seller has been on the stand today and it’s become very clear that he does not have much of grasp of Thai at all so we don’t understand how he could have translated for police,” Andy Hall, a British migrant rights advocate who is helping the defence team, told The Myanmar Times.
“As well there have been many police procedural issues exposed this week, including many inconsistencies in the timing of events around the arrest of the accused.”
Police witnesses have contradicted each other about the times of various events, including the arrest of the men, the taking of DNA samples and the times of their initial confessions, observers at the court said.
On August 19, Bangkok solicitor Pittaya Yaipetch claimed he was present during the confessions but did not make a report of the event, despite apparently being an observer for the Thai Lawyers Association.
“The suspect told the investigating police officer that he was with the co-accused on the beach at about 3am when the victims walked past them. He said they went to a place further along the beach and started kissing,” said Mr Yaipetch.
“Zaw Lin said he hit Mr Miller with a garden hoe while he was lying on top of Ms Witheridge but the victim jumped to his feet and tried to fight [Zaw Lin] off. That was when he hit him again and he fell down.”
Those confessions were allegedly obtained using the translation services of the roti sellers, but the confessions were later retracted.
Ko Zaw Lin and Ko Wai Phyo have accused both the police and the roti sellers of beating, stripping and blindfolding them.
The two Muslim men both denied using violence on the accused.
Mr Hall said that the accused remained upbeat during yesterday’s trial.
The mothers of the two men were present in court yesterday to witness the trial. The trial continues today.
--MyanmarTimes 2015-08-21
A procession of police witnesses have confirmed that both the suspects did not have any legal representation when they were being questioned.
Two impartial legal observers did sit in on their interviews but only after they had already confessed.
http://news.sky.com/story/1539151/koh-tao-murder-suspect-had-injuries-on-body
Therefore which confession did Pittaya Yaipetch witness
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The trial of two men accused of murdering University of Essex student Hannah Witheridge in Thailand is expected to be shown their video confessions today.
22 year-olds Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo had initially confessed to killing 23 year-old Hannah and fellow Brit, 24 year-old David Miller from Jersey, but later retracted the statements amid claims they had been tortured into making them.
Yesterday, a man who shared a cell with the pair claimed he saw injuries on the body of Zaw Lin following his interrogation. The man, known as Kringkrai, said Lin ad a wound and bruising clearly visible on his chest and he complained he was in pain.
Sarah McBride has been in court for Heart and gave this update.
Hannah Witheridge Murder Suspect Confessions To Be Shown
Read more at http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/hannah-witheridge-murder-confessions-to-be-shown/#RsLSftijSBBlp6iy.99
OK, so even more information in the Heart article about the Thai solicitor who "witnessed" the confessions. The Myanmar Times article also mentions him and indicates the confessions he "witnessed" were relayed to him via the roti sellers.
On August 19, Bangkok solicitor Pittaya Yaipetch claimed he was present during the confessions but did not make a report of the event, despite apparently being an observer for the Thai Lawyers Association.
and
Those confessions were allegedly obtained using the translation services of the roti sellers, but the confessions were later retracted.
At the initial confession there was no independent /impartial or any lawyer , solicitor present
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In Thailand, members of the public have walked out of the trial of two men accused of murdering Hemsby woman Hannah Witheridge over claims a witness was lying in the dock.
The court's heard from the translator who was used while police interviewed the supsects.
But there was angry reaction when he couldn't understand questions or give coherant answers.
Hannah - who was a student at Essex University - and her friend David Miller were found dead on a beach on the Island of Koh Tao last September.
http://www.heart.co.uk/eastanglia/news/local/heart-east-anglia-scribble-live/#6wxZ0vcw7uZab1LI.97
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Well done Stealth! Thanks for that first bit of real news from the trial today. The prosecutions hole just gets deeper and deeper with this motley crew of idiotsA translator who cannot speak or read Thai and cannot understand the B2 dialect. Well that takes the biscuit. I'll revise my opinion that this trial is a Thai soap drama to a Thai soap comedy. You know, the ones where there's a lot of shouting by men and women dressed in funny clothes, and doing stupid things that has the audience in hysterics.
Correction
The translator cant read or write thai, so I take it that he can speak thai
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OK genuine replies only
Does anybody recall or know when and how the allegations of an altercation in a bar between one of the victims and a thai first materialised
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PMSL again ! JTJ " I know it is hard when in conspiracy mode to understand fact from fiction " .
so how are you getting along with the Panya news article .. that will prove he was on the move prior to 15 sept . or is that another fact from fiction issue ?
He's hoping you'll forget!
I actually find it amusing. The conspiracy theory that Panya, who cleared all the people folks here suspect were involved, was transferred Oct 1 as planned with MANY other police officials on what is the yearly shuffle of police bosses. This is the guy under whose management of the case drew international criticism and announced the impending arrests of the two defendants but now conspiracy folks want to believe he was running the case well and that is why he was transferred despite the fact the October transfers are decided a month in advance and the promotions require royal approval. This is one of those very comical conspiracy theories were all sense of reality is ignored.
JTJ
You may be right , but the original question still remains unanswered
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If it was the B2 who stumbled across Hannah and David being intimate, then at what point did they go and fetch the hoe ? Or did someone intent on violence grab the hoe and then go to the beach ? I think the latter is more probable.
They would have had to know where to find the hoe , or luckily stumbled across it
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Nevertheless... After all is said and done in court, in this forum and other social and news media, the real killers are still at large and that is sickening and even more so to the family. Once again, the saving of face has brought another victim's family shear devastation.
Last statements released from the family, who have much more information about the case than any of us, indicates they believe the right people are standing trial.
You need to update yourself somewhat.
You need to stop jumping in on a subject that you obviously know absolutely nothing about catsanddogs.
GB I normally ignore your posts, however I am somewhat flabbergasted that you came out with such a statement considering your track record
In all fairness catsanddogs is more than up to speed on the subject , and I would suggest that you should practice what you preach
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JTJ
' Why would the British PM make such a call when UK investigators have indicated to the victim's family the police nabbed the right people for these crimes and the evidence is strong against them. '
Can you clarify what UK investigators ,
That was what I read in the papers also. At the time it was reported the families were satisfied that the right people had been arrested. possibly this came from the dreaded Foreign Office or Consulate rather than the actual investigators - people who are way too cosy with their hosts..
There was no UK investigators , observers only , the Met clarification letter was quite clear that they did not carry out any investigation
As for the families statement via the FCO this would appear to be based upon the information received from the RTP
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JTJ
' Why would the British PM make such a call when UK investigators have indicated to the victim's family the police nabbed the right people for these crimes and the evidence is strong against them. '
Can you clarify what UK investigators ,
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People were deducing from various photos that this was Nom Sod due to the way his arm appeared in this and many other photos.
for GB
Here is one link , there are others if you wish to seek them out
Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims.
Definition of the word "purportedly"
-alleged
-supposed
-rumored
Definition of rumor
-be circulated as an unverified account.
So
Bloodied pair of jeans "rumored" to belong to Miller.
GB you have no idea what you are talking about,
My response was to your request for a media link referring to a phone in the early stages of the investigation , (remember you made an emphasis that it was not disclosed )
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for GB
Here is one link , there are others if you wish to seek them out
Local Thai television has broadcast images of a bloodied pair of jeans that purportedly belonged to Miller as well as an iPhone that is thought to have belonged to one of the victims.
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David's Missing Mobile Phone Explained.
Almost from day one there has been confusion about the missing Mobile Phone. At first it was reported by the media that it was Hannah's Mobile Phone, which it was not. I really don't know why it was reported this way by the person in charge. Was he misinformed? Was it media reported incorrectly? Was it lost in the translation? Was it just a mistake he made? But either way he had no reason to lie as they did have a missing Mobile Phone in their possession at that time, which is stated to belong to David Miller.
As reported by the media, on October 7th, or thereabouts, a Senior Police Official was on the evening news to explain exactly how they found David Miller's Mobile Phone. He said they knew quickly it was missing from the body from information gained by David's Friends and Relatives. (Which may be a very good indication he did not lose it earlier, because if he did he did not tell any of his friends who police contacted). But at that time this was not reported to the press.
Later, after the two suspects were arrested and had confessed to this crime, the police asked them about David Miller's Mobile Phone. One of the suspects (not named) said he left it with a friend. When the police later questioned that friend, he led them to the Mobile Phone. The friend said he had grave doubts about this Mobile Phone, and where it really came from, so he threw it away behind his living quarters.
If this is true then I am pretty sure it will all come out in court as this is damning evidence. Especially if this witness is their friend. We will just have to wait and see.
This is your BIG shocker?
Who was the senior police office mentioned on 7th October because a week earlier (2 weeks after the murders) this was said by General Kiattipong Kaosam-ang:
"There is no doubt the murder of Miss Witheridge was sexually motivated because none of her belongings or those of the English man were missing,"
and yet your man says they knew quickly that phone was missing.
And why would someone who thought a phone was dodgy only get rid of it behind their house. iffy
"But at that time this was not reported to the press."
Please note this last line Paragraph 2 says they didn't want the Media to know about this then. It is not uncommon for Police in any country to keep news away from the press when conducting an ongoing investigation. Why tell everyone you are looking for a Mobile Phone stolen from David Miller and believe the culprit may have stole it, when he may still have it on his person and you can catch him Red Handed with it?
If you were his Friend, as the Media Reported, and heard about the double murders, and that the friend who gave you this Mobile Phone has just been arrested and brought in for questioning, what would you do with it? Keep it, and now maybe become a suspect in this murder and accused as the one who stole it, if caught with it? Turn it over to the Police and still maybe be considered a suspect for just having it? Or wipe off your finger prints and get rid of it?
I am not claiming this Media Report is true as it has not been proven yet. But I would sure know what I would do if I was in this situation and this was true. .
GB
The media was reporting early in the investigation about finding a mobile phone with blond hair snagged in it, firstly in Davids luggage and during the raid where the gun and grenade was found.
It would appear that some of these reports are incorrect , but there was more phones than in an apple workshop
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At first I read that there was DNA evidence inside her body. Now I read that the evidence was in a condom.
Forgive me, but ...was the condom in her body or was that in addition to the DNA in her body? Two samples or one? Either way, I can't see why they would be cautious of leaving DNA and then on the other hand be so reckless about it to either leave it behind in her or allow another to not use one.
How was far the condom from the scene? Did it have Hannah's DNA on it too? Which sample was tested against the headmans son? Both or just one?
My gut feeling is probably the same as most, it was the headmans son and friends and they have cleared him using one of the DNA samples his friend left behind.
Edited to be more clear.
If I remember reports correctly there was no dna evidence in the condom and a spot of Hannah's blood on the outside. With regards to Hannah there were 2 different specimens internally and a third different one externally (as stated by police / forensics in a press conference conducted in Thai last year). That's a total of 3 by the way for starters, not 2.
Yes the report of the 3rd dna on Hannahs breast , now that report is no longer to be found
However the Condom , blood or dna , I have seen a photo of a condom with a speck of blood present , but it is the terminology used that fascinates me
Blood or dna being present has 2 different meanings, now if blood of a person is found then it is usually described as person A blood was found
If dna is present this would signify cells or tissue
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Berybert,
I see you still can't make a post to me without calling me a name. Then you say I am child like. (Ha!Ha!Ha!) Yeah! Right!
Okay! Since you said this, "This tiny Nomsod guy who is a lot bigger than the 2 Burmese"., I honestly didn't know that as I couldn't tell from those Grainy CCTV Images.
So how tall is Nomsad and how much does he weigh?
You have been following this case since day 1 so you say. If this is the case then you should know how tall Nomsod is as it has been mentioned several times.
Thank you for admitting the man in the grainy CCTV images is indeed Nomsod, again you would be perfect for the RTP.
Well Son, I am too old to join any Police Force, so again you are wrong. Just more Blah!Blah!Blah! Like when you just said you knew Nomsad was a lot bigger then the 2 accused, but have no idea how tall he is or his weight.
GB in all honesty have you been following this from day 1 ?
With regards to height, it is well known that Nomsod i taller than the B2, and has been reported before.
In fact Nomsod fits the height profile determined by forensic analysis of one guy seen on cctv , 160-170 cm tall
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Goldbuggy
With regards to Nomsod , if as in one of your possible scenario he lied about his presence on the island , the reason for this deceit can only be answered by himself
The uni/dorm cctv image does not provide an alibi, there is a cctv image taken on Friday evening , and the next image is 09:15 monday morning, There is a huge gap in the time frame unaccounted for, now they may well be an innocent explanation but none as been forthcoming
I dont think anybody is putting forward that the murders was committed by one person ,
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Confusion reigns and the catalogue of ambiguity continues
The court has now been told that vital DNA evidence cannot be retested. At the end of the trial's third day, the judge said police had informed him all the samples taken on the island were "finished" - meaning they could not be analysed again.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33473662
with reference to the cig buts , dna samples fro 2 Marlborough and 1 L&M , from BP
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- Popular Post
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The SS Rule is off topic.
The £18,600 figure is reasonable. The way it was before we had muppets going abroad to get a ready made family, then showing up in the UK and going straight on welfare.
Any Brit that supports that is nuts.
This is incorrect
The non eeu spouse of the muppet , as you so elegantly describe, is not entitled to recourse of public funds until they have ILR, although the British partner is entitled to claim for himself
As for being nuts , then yes I have to admit this, because I firmly believe that a person has a right to family life wherever they choose to live. I recognize people are human beings and as such nothing is simply black and white that a set of arbitrary rules can resolve.
My own personnel view on the £18,600 is that it is a ploy to reduce the number of non eeu immigrants , and allows the decision makers (politicians) to keep the issue of immigration in the spotlight to mask the real underlying issues in the uk, namely underfunding of the NHS, lack of house building
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There is one question that no one seems to have asked yet.
Is there any proof the Burmese bought L&M cigarettes that night ?
Or are we just taking the word of the RTP again ?
One would imagine a computer till would be able to tell which brand was bought and when.
It is my understanding that the 3 cigarette butts found are 2 Marlborough and 1 L & M brands
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As some people are still struggling with the SS ruling, here is the judgement and background information
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:61990CJ0370
section 12
It should also be observed that it is not alleged that Mr and Mrs Singh' s marriage was a sham. Moreover, although the marriage was dissolved by the decree absolute of divorce delivered in 1989, that is not relevant to the question referred for a preliminary ruling, which concerns the basis of the right of residence of the person concerned during the period before the date of that decree.
18 The provisions of the Council regulations and directives on freedom of movement within the Community for employed and self-employed persons, in particular Article 10 of Regulation No 1612/68, cited above, Articles 1 and 4 of Directive 68/360, cited above, and Articles 1© and 4 of Directive 73/148, cited above, provide that the Member States must grant the spouse and children of such a person rights of residence equivalent to that granted to the person himself.
25 The answer to the question referred for a preliminary ruling must therefore be that Article 52 of the Treaty and Directive 73/148, properly construed, require a Member State to grant leave to enter and reside in its territory to the spouse, of whatever nationality, of a national of that State who has gone, with that spouse, to another Member State in order to work there as an employed person as envisaged by Article 48 of the Treaty and returns to establish himself or herself as envisaged by Article 52 of the Treaty in the territory of the State of which he or she is a national. The spouse must enjoy at least the same rights as would be granted to him or her under Community law if his or her spouse entered and resided in the territory of another Member State.
Now the above is only a snapshot , and to get a full understanding the whole document should be read,
The SS route is well established and known
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According to a news report which was from a sky news reporter, his translator has been warned off working for them, trying to find link but it was in a thai visa thread today.
I thought bbc news was reporting DNA evidence "lost"?
Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".
http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence
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What people have to realise that there is a group of posters , JLCrab, Aleg, JDinasia, who I do not wish to engage in debate , as they have demonstrated that it is their opinions and only their opinions that count.
I make my point and then move on , because I fully realise that the above said posters just retreat into their usual refuge of abuse
Well done Stealth! Thanks for that first bit of real news from the trial today. The prosecutions hole just gets deeper and deeper with this motley crew of idiots
Prayut urged to set election timeframe at UN assembly
in Thailand News
Posted
Stop being so patronizing ro rhe Thai people. They have a better understanding of the pollitics ,corruption and self serving politicians. They are fully aware that they are going to be shafted whoever is in charge .