rockingrobin

Who do the pink coloured flip flops belong to ?, if I recall correctly Hannahs was not wearing pink footwear on the night

Yes! And a couple days later they were released because their DNA Samples did not match.

And unlike the Accused!

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/police-release-suspects-in-murder-of-two-brits-in-koh-tao.html

Wrong. Nomsod was in the clear days before his DNA was taken, typed (very quickly!) , and found not to match DNA found in/on Hannah. Indeed, Nomsod was cleared on the bases of two still 'grabs' (waved around by his lawyer) taken from questionable CCTV footage taken in Bkk, nearly 5 hours after the crime. I don't think the RTP themselves ever declared it was not Nomsod on the island CCTV minutes after the crime. Though RTP did claim they were sure it was him earlier. If anyone can source a quote where RTP claim it WAS NOT him on the island CCTV, please let us know.

You know this not to be true:

"Nomsod was cleared on the bases of two still 'grabs' (waved around by his lawyer) taken from questionable CCTV footage"

Therefore you are deliberately lying with an intention to deceive.

The police had the full footage from many different cameras in Nomsod's dormitory to prove he was not in Koh Tao at the time of the murder, also statements and documents from the University placing him there at that time.

Here's the full footage I referred to, as examined in full by journalists:

Regards the youtube video , does anybody notice an oddity at the following point in time

youtube video time 3.25

Timestamp on video 06:35 :31 and 06:36:46

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Just one question to the hang'em high-brigade: soooooo...let's assume for a second, that you are right (which you are not IMO) and the B2 killed and raped poor Hannah (which they did not IMO).

They didn't care to flee the island, they didn't care for the hoe, they didn't care throwing the victims phone (one of many, if we follow all the police reporting) behind their place and they are overall totally careless with important evidence.

How come, the second murder weapon was never found and there never was any mentioning of bloodstained clothes...and as I understand, there should have been lots of blood!

They didn't give two hot sh1ts for all the "evidence" presented, but they were careful enough to get rid of the clothes and the second murder weapon, right?!

Just asking your opinions, of course!

Okay! Who says they didn't take care of the Hoe? If I recall they didn't find any evidence on that Hoe. So it must have been washed clean from the Ocean Salt Water. It also wasn't found next to the bodies either. It was in fact put back to the Garden and where they got it from. To me, that tells me they tried to hide evidence and the Murder Weapon.

It was only by matching the Hoe to the wound on David Miller's Head that they deduced that this Hoe was in fact the Murder Weapon. The Accused must have figured that by trying to hide this Hoe someplace else would have raised the alarm bells, when the farmer reported it missing the next day. So since it was washed of evidence it was probably wiser to put it back.

So the first answer to you questions is, and like many Rapist Murderers, they didn't think they would get caught. It certainly took a long time to catch Ted Bundy and others like this. They knew that nobody else had witnessed their crime (with one guy probably being the Look Out) and the only 2 who could identify them they had killed. They must have felt so sure they wouldn't get caught, or be suspects, that they even took David Millers Cell Phone. Thinking nobody would look at them for it.

Now whether you think this was wise or even wonder why they would take such a risk, knowing that if they got caught with this phone it would link them to the murders, you have to remember this. They are Migrant Workers from a poor country and thus also poorly educated. As such, they were not hired to work their as Brain Surgeons. They were both hired and had low paying jobs. They probably also don't have much knowledge on DNA, and like we do There were (as they both admitted several times) drunk during this time. At the very least many people saw they were drinking. So there thought process that night, on top of there poor education, and everything else, was hindered.

Why they didn't find the second Murder Weapon that killed Hannah is for the same reason you first said they didn't do. Which was they took care of it. I don't think they even know for sure exactly what it was, except it was a Blunt Instrument. Thus can't be the Hoe. Perhaps some wooden stick or club, which after it is throw back into the Ocean it becomes Drift Wood again. But the fact they didn't find anything near the victims which would do that, then it is obvious they tried to hide it. They tried to hide evidence.

Why do you keep thinking there would be a lot of blood? They both were injured by head wounds, and not stabbed 100 times with a dull kitchen knife to the body. If you were hit in the face or on the nose, there would be blood. But they were hit on the tops and top sides of their heads, which doesn't produce much blood at all.

Why didn't they leave the island right after they committed this crime? It is probably a combination of several reasons.The most important one was they didn't think they would be suspects and thus get caught. But if they suddenly left and quit their jobs, this would arouse suspicious.They also were working without proper working papers, so there Visa may have expired as well. They also probably needed their jobs to help support their families back home. So since they probably didn't have much money, and also probably no family or friends on the main land, where could they run to. For them their employer is expect to pay there way home after a year, or sometimes longer.

I am surprised you didn't ask about the cigarette butts found near the Crime Scene. It never says they were taken 50 Meters away, at the log these guys sat on, but that's say this is so. The significance of the Cigarette Butts is the DNA Testing of those Butts also matched the sperm DNA Sample taken from Hannah. After talking to staff at the Resort, this is when they discovered that the accused where there that night playing their guitar. So it was these cigarettes Butts that led the Police to the suspects, and after DNA Sampling of them, which again matched the sperm found in Hannah, they were charged with Murder.

Goldbuggy

Your response contains a number of errors , and ommissions that I am left to arrive at a conclusion that you are not really interested in the crime and posting with an intent of being vexatious

Aleg

I fail to see how it can be concluded conclusively that the statement about the clothes and guitar being stolen is untrue ,as they could have equally been lying when telling Muang Muang the guitar was at ac bar. In reality all their statements could be untrue

I have not read or heard anything from Muang Muang about the guitar, and without knowing how the guitar was discovered or found then it is somewhat inconclusive

As for the interpreter , he is discredited on the basis that he is not an official registered interpreter , but a police volunteer

Just one question to the hang'em high-brigade: soooooo...let's assume for a second, that you are right (which you are not IMO) and the B2 killed and raped poor Hannah (which they did not IMO).

They didn't care to flee the island, they didn't care for the hoe, they didn't care throwing the victims phone (one of many, if we follow all the police reporting) behind their place and they are overall totally careless with important evidence.

How come, the second murder weapon was never found and there never was any mentioning of bloodstained clothes...and as I understand, there should have been lots of blood!

They didn't give two hot sh1ts for all the "evidence" presented, but they were careful enough to get rid of the clothes and the second murder weapon, right?!

Just asking your opinions, of course!

One of the men on trial tried to flee the island, and was caught in the mainland. As for bloody clothes, they claimed theirs were stolen, along with the guitar they were playing, when they went swimming, however to their friend they told they had left the guitar at the bar, so which one is the lie? Since the guitar was actually found I would say the first one.

They cared enough for the phone as to try to get rid of it, for the hoe they were probably too drunk to think straight at the time. They also, allegedly, claimed to use a bottle to attack Miller, which could explain the cuts on the right side of his head, as if hit from behind by a right handed person and why it hasn't been found, glass fragments in the sand after the tide has come in and out would be impossible to find or relate to the murder, no need for forethought in getting rid of it (as opposed to making up an excuse when asked about the clothes they were wearing nearly three weeks after the events)

Aleg

You make an interesting observation, the apparent contradiction regarding the guitar , stolen or left at ac bar.

You then come to a conclusion the statement about clothes and Guitar being stolen is a lie , so therefore what happened to their bloodied clothes , (apparently washed ) , what journey did the guitar take before being discovered i.e. was it left at the scene, given to a friend colleague, taken to ac bar

Obviously Muang Muang should be able to shed some light on the issue ,on his returning to ac bar was the guitar present or not

With the issue of the bottle to attack Miler it is my understanding that the discredited interpreter made the claims and the RTP have gone to great lengths to say the wounds was caused by the hoe

With regards to the phone , well what can i say, Hannahs or Davids , would not work so given to friend and smashed and left in plastic bag

There has been mention that the bodies was discovered by beach cleaners, supposedly at 06:30 ish, (or maybe earlier ), but the local police informed around 11:00 am,

Therefore the reasonable question is what transpired in this 4-5 hour time frame.

I am assuming by local police they mean Surat Thani

It was the RTP who mentioned revenge

http://bangkok.coconuts.co/2014/09/17/police-blame-jealous-friend-david-and-hannah-murders-koh-tao

Aleg

The quotes you allude to regarding Nomsod returning to uni and Hannahs phone have already been posted

a train runs up the bum of the one in front of it and they do not know if it is the drivers fault, who else are they going to blame the passengers, what a pack of morons, the driver is the one controlling the trains forward motion, who else is there to lay blame on but then again if the front train had no tail lights like all the scooters in Thailand then maybe he didnt see it.........

Sounds like you work for SRT with your vast working knowledge of railway operations, Rules Regulations and appendix instructions,

Hmm, lets see?

- Infrastructure defect/s

- Signaller's error

- Mechanical defect to Train

- and of course Driver error

So reason to investigate yet and find the real cause of the accident, I'll wager this is down to a signaller not setting up correct routing after first train came to a stand awaiting clearance into Station (Run off/Run in road to the left) this left the 2nd and 3rd track at switch point from how Iv read the situation, so 2nd train should have been switched back to run through mainline (Middle track, 2nd) and clear obstructing train along its right side... But untill all the facts come out I may be wrong...?

I dont know what the layout or signalling system is at this location, but my own personal opinion would be that it is unlikely to be a signaller error , unless they are operating a degraded system (such as permissive working) or are using a primitive type of signalling. With the scenario described above I would normally expect the interlocking to prevent such events

a train runs up the bum of the one in front of it and they do not know if it is the drivers fault, who else are they going to blame the passengers, what a pack of morons, the driver is the one controlling the trains forward motion, who else is there to lay blame on but then again if the front train had no tail lights like all the scooters in Thailand then maybe he didnt see it.........

Seajae

Whilst I agree it could be the drivers fault , there are also other credible reasons to consider such as infrastructure or mechanical failure

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Not knowing the full details, but just a few things to throw in the ring for you peeps;

- Most modern railways run on the Absolute system (1 train, in 1 section, at 1 time) the section being a signalling section, if we achieve this then there should never be a collision or crash. In certain areas we have 'Permissive' working where you can have more than 1 train in a section at 1 time.

- There a few safety devices normally employed which should prevent 'Driver' error,

- AWS (Automatic Warning System)

if a driver passes a clear signal he gets a bell, he then presses a cancellation button (this keeps Vigillance) If he accidentally passes a Danger signal (or signal in the On position he gets a Horn sound, once again he must cancel this by pressing a button, this then tells him he has committed a SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger) he should then stop and get straight on the SPT (Signal Post Telephone) and speak with the Signaller/Controller for that section (in certain countries this may well be from Cab to shore Radio (I am only versed in UK railway procedures)

If he fails to cancel as above on a Red Danger signal then the AWS system automaticlly applies the brakes of the train and brings it to a stop.

The other System on all Trains is the DSD (Dead Mans Saftey Device) This is either a treddle which he depresses with his foot or on DMU/EMUs can be a handle power controller which has to be held down, if the driver has a Heart attack or collaspes at the controls then this once again releases the DSD and will apply the breaks of the Train/Vehicle (as said I am quoting UK terminology and it will have various names in differant countries but the principle is the same.

Thing is don't be too quick to blame the driver, it could have been faulty signalling or PWay, the head of the Railways is gonna say its all tickety -Boo now aint he (and seems pretty fast to announce that to me? but then I suppose the Thai Railways have a lot more experiance of investigating incidents the Thai way and coming up with the right answears?

Signaller for instance may have been pulled off for him and then thrown back against him for all we know?

Do they have TCA? Track circuit actuators? this shows the presence of trains in signalling sections, thus signallers/contollers can bring trains to a stop... yes there is mor e to this than meets the eye, and finally if it is Single line, by directional then a token system should be in use (ensures only one train can travel through at one given time. If single directional then the signals should have automatic features that prevent a train runing into an occupied section (as may have happend in this case)

So it will be 1 of 3 things:

Driver error or he had an episode (collapsed etc)

Infrastructure fault (Signalling/Pway)

Signallers error

I doubt they are used to working with proper signaling or those kind of safety fail safes, SRT the same as KTMB in Malaysia mainly work on single track with the odd turnout and loop and siding for passing , nearly all hand throw Turnout, they are just used to a very laid back system/ AS you say nothing will happen , it doesn't sound like its been investigated properly. They shrug their shoulders about this same in Malaysia , they keep doing it and keep doing it and then people die

Do they still use Temporary Magnets dug into the 4ft In Uk for Temp speed restriction ? I can recall digging loads of those in the late 80s

I don't know what the line speeds are here but I wonder if the old "Train stops" would work , They are no widespread in the UK only Underground an BR DC track. You may or may not have seen them. It s basically a pneumatic foot on the outside of 4ft, when a signal is red the foot comes up if the Train keeps going the foot trips the trip cock on the train basically turning the Train off. They are a thing of the past but pretty fool proof

The magnets in the 4' , I am presuming you are meaning the AWS system which is still in use on the UK railway , ( coloured yellow for non third rail and green for third rail), in addition following on from accidents and SPADs a system known as TPWS is utilised at critical signals which basically takes the control away from the driver, if the train passes a signal at danger (RED) then the system makes an emergency brake application and brings it to a standstill.

The TPWS was designed and installed because it was cheaper than the alternative ATP, however it should be noted that the TPWS system if it fails it will be wrong side

Even in the UK SPADs happen frequently and the psychology of the train driver passing a number of signals displaying a green or proceed aspects can lead him to unconsciously ignore a stop signal

Click on the blue print, it is a link!

The link provided does not say Nomsod was a suspect due to social media, you are just pedalling a conspiracy theory that social media was responsible, when it has been clearly stated that it was the RTP who claimed he had fled and was caught on cctv

The link says exactly what is in the blue font.

Again

There is nothing substantial in the quote, the reader is left to speculate on what the subject of the quote is about, there is no mention of who the influential " mafia " are or Nomsods name, or in fact which social media they are on about

This would appear to have become an issue where a group of posters have become labeled as conspiracy theorists in an attempt to dismiss or ridicule there view , in a similar way to how one would perceive a cult.

However what history shows us that there have been a number of real conspiracies and that these real conspiracies usually involve at least 4 distinctive attributes

Not isolated individuals

illegal aims

Does not benefit society as a whole

Orchestrated acts

Does the above satisfy the Khao Tao case ,

Aleg

with regards Mon and the cctv, if I recall correctly in an earlier post you agreed it was Mon but added that it had to be taken in context

No, I did not

I said that one source said something along the lines of "Mon admitted to being the man on the CCTV footage", that source didn't identify what footage in particular it was referring to, so saying "Mon admitted to being on this particular footage" is an unsupported assertion.

There was a detailed description of the man in the cctv when it was reported by the RTP that Mon was that person

When taking all reports starting from BP 21st september through to 25th september when Somyot declared Nomsod was not a suspect , I am of the opinion that some kind of subterfuge is being carried out

Aleg

with regards Mon and the cctv, if I recall correctly in an earlier post you agreed it was Mon but added that it had to be taken in context

The reasoning that a large number of people would be required to skew data is total rubbish,

Once you have a slight understanding of the mindset then it becomes clear, I will use an actual example from this case itself

According to Mon an employee helped to wash blood off Mcanna in the morning of the murders. The said employee was reluctant to speak to the police because they had ruled out an European

And strangely enough not 1 comment on Nomsod admitting he wasn't at school the day after the murder !

I wonder why.

The boy was all over the news at that time together with his dad, of course he would be allowed to take break from study , do you think he did it because he wanted to hide?

If he really was the killer it would be more suspicious if he didn't attend class. He is just a boy but he is also from a wealthy family , they are of course worried about his well being.

It was and still is an enormous pressure on him , he has been cleared thanks to the DNA test , he did it to escape the gossip and clear his name.

Unfortunately our conspiracy experts do not believe in this DNA test and think it was a fake one set up by the police.

Balo

You raise an interesting point,

Am I correct in thinking Nomsod dna was tested against the dna found on Hannahs body. This in itself would not clear him, there is the matter of the cigarette butt with Hannahs and another uknown dna, and the used condom.

Just because his dna did not match does not clear him ,it only proves Nomsods dna was not found, this was previously highlighted by a forensic expert

No my timeline is fine.

Or did the video of running man not get shown until a week after the murder ?

You need a link for the copyright.

That article was from the 23rd. 8 full days after the murders.

Worat and lawyer present exculpatory evidence on the 30th of September. 2 full weeks after the murders.

There's a 1 week gap, but it is between the 23rd and the 30th.

Actually, Warot was cleared by the 25th. So, the police say they are looking for him on the 23rd, 25th; so much for the "he was hiding from the police for a week" meme.

Besides that, the reason he became a suspect was because armchair detectives "identified" him as being the man on the CCTV footage. I'm guessing someone floated up his name and that he was the son of an influential figure and that set off the outrage brigade, of course it had to be him. Son of a rich family getting away with murder in an intrigue involving corruption up to the highest levels of Thailand's government? That stuff sells, and you can pin all sorts of prejudices to it.

Two poor Burmese men, what can you do with that?

I understand that it was Somyot who declared on the 25th that Nomsod was never a suspect , even though this contradicted the Khao Tao investigators on the 23rd , and then went on to state that he wasnt going to comment on the case ,lest it contradicted the investigators in charge of the investigation

JD here lies a problem , it is not evident from the cctv shown that the suspect has a tattoo

How did we arrive at Mon being awolke by his cleaner

Aleg

With reference to the promotion, on what date was the promotion announced with his name actually stated

I have already provided references to Panya Mamen being promoted, as scheduled, in a general reshuffle; it was confirmed on September 30th, the process, obviously, started before that.

Now, why don't you ask Boomerangutang for references regarding his allegations that he was promoted/transferred to change the course of the investigation?

I fail to agree , all you have done is provide a link to state that a promotion as taken place at the same time as other promotions,

and then used a flawed logic to arrive at a conclusion that it must have been planned earlier, because the other promotions have been announced earlier