newnative

I don't find any of them annoying. Coastal, for example, does an excellent monthly newsletter with property listings, both rentals and those for sale. But, the newsletter also usually has some other things of interest, such as local restaurants highlighted, information on holidays, etc.

This is my very first time to post a thread so please bear with me. This morning I got an interesting email from one of the Pattaya real estate offices. It was chock full of information on both the history of Pattaya condo projects and what's in store for the next few years. I thought I would share some of the highlights with you. Pattaya has a staggering 293 condo projects, according to the report. Just out of curiosity, I checked Reston, Virginia, the small city where I used to live in the US. Reston has 67 condo projects. Quite a difference. 293 projects gives lots of choice, both for buyers and renters. Those 293 projects have over 130,000 condo units. Even if you only count one person per condo, that's 130,000 Pattaya full or part-time residents, just in condos. Likely many are not counted, along with many of those living in the thousands of houses, when census figures are drawn up. Pattaya is a big city, and growing. The very first condo project, Garden Cliff, was built way back in 1980 and has 51 units. Spouse and I actually owned at that project (of course you did, some of you are likely saying) and we always suspected that it was the first, or one of the first. Thailand's prime minister at the time apparently came to the dedication. Attending condo dedications these days would be a full-time job. Nice project, right on the ocean. Pattaya has 8 condo projects built in the 1980's and 33 built in the 1990's. Contrary to the belief expressed by some that condo buildings go crashing to the ground here when they reach the age of 30, I believe all the ones on the list are still standing. Certainly Garden Cliff is. Sticking with Garden Cliff, it is not only the first but one of the smallest condo projects on the list, with just 51 units. The largest listed is Jomtien Beach Condo, with 3,700 units. I counted at least 24 built projects with 1,000 units or more. Looking to the present and future, Pattaya has a, once again, staggering number of new projects either started this year or scheduled. From 2025 to 2029, 17 major new projects were listed in the report. That's a huge number of projects. 14 of the projects have 500 units or more. To give you some idea of how big 500 units is, Zire Wongamat, a large 2-building project, has 480 units, according to the report. So, multiply Zire by 14. 8 of the new projects have 1,000 units, or more. That's 8 more projects the same size, or bigger, of the massive Riviera Jomtien. Meanwhile, any massive road projects in the works? Public transportation upgrades?

One of my first surprises was the good road system. That was brought home to me with my first visit to Cambodia with my spouse, I think in 2012. We traveled on very good roads to the border and then got a taxi to take us to Siem Reap. I think we were on national highway 1, which was paved. However, as we crossed intersections, almost all the side roads were dirt. Once we got to Siem Reap, some of the main streets were paved but many of the side streets we traveled on were very bumpy gravel with huge potholes. A later visit to Siem Reap in 2017 showed progress with better roads. But, it was interesting that two countries next door to each other had such a huge difference in infrastructure. We also noticed that very soon after we left Siem Reap the rural areas soon lost electricity and water--at least they did in 2017.

Good.

Absolutely. One of the first comments on this thread was one moaning about how the casinos would be so bad for Thai betters, conveniently overlooking that ordinary Thais would not be allowed in to bet in the first place. That's the problem, in a nutshell. So much disinformation allowed to stand uncontested. And, allowing a small--but loud--group opposed to the bill to kill it. Plus a weak, spineless, incompetent government that did a very poor job of selling this very beneficial plan to the public.

And, yet, you, yourself, admitted you sold two houses to an American and a German. I just sold to a Brit, and have sold properties to Americans and EU citizens. Of the 20some sales we have done, condos and houses, most have been to western buyers. I only know Pattaya so perhaps things are different in other areas of Thailand but Pattaya is definitely attracting western buyers. I've lived in four different Pattaya housing projects, so far, and it's been the same in all of them--a mix of buyers, for sure, but with plenty of western, non-Russian buyers from America, Britain, Australia, Canada, and the EU countries. You may need to get out a bit more and actually see for yourself. And, if you're only seeing tourists, you're not looking where the residents are.

Perhaps. But, things being topsy-turvy in Thailand, single-family homes can actually be a bargain, compared to some condo prices, especially those with seaview. We sold a 79 sqm 1 bedroom 1 bath seaview condo at Northshore in Pattaya and netted 9MB. Recently, we built a large 4 bedroom 5 bath pool villa on the Darkside and it cost less, including everything, than the NS condo we sold. If you can give up your seaview, which I finally did, you can live in a lot larger space for less money.

You may not want to believe 'the implied line', but there it is, with a lot of the explosion in new housing around Pattaya happening seemingly in just the last few years. I probably would not believe it, either, but my spouse and I spend a lot of time driving around and touring new housing projects, mostly on the Darkside of Pattaya, seeing what is being built. We've shifted from condos to houses as our focus. There's plenty to keep us busy with just the Lake Mabprachan area, but other areas are equally busy with new projects. Likely we are falling behind in keeping up. It's really an eye-opener, seeing what is being built, at all price points, but a lot of the recent builds are higher-end. Saw a listing for a new Pattaya house for 165 MB on Facebook yesterday. Yikes. In addition to driving around ourselves, we also like to view new housing project reviews that are posted on Youtube, while we are exercising, to keep informed about new projects. There are a number of good Youtube sites by different Pattaya agencies and lots of videos to view. Maybe check some of them out sometime. You could start with Pearl Property. It's really impressive, what is being built. What is also impressive is the projects are selling, for the most part. We toured two different projects recently and we could see people living in most of the houses, with a few still to be sold. The new project we just left, with 28 houses in the 11MB range, was sold out. I never thought Pattaya could attract so many new residents but we drive into project after project and there they are. Of course, not all of these foreign buyers are super wealthy, most probably aren't, but they do have the money to pay cash for properties in the 10 to 50MB range--and up. Likely they are not dropping their entire wealth into a Thai property--at least I hope not--so they are, if not super wealthy, at least very comfortable financially. Equally interesting to me was the diverse mix of owners that we saw in the last project we lived at--everything from an older, retired Dutch couple to a Chinese TikTok personality to an Israeli family with a grade-school child.

Guess you won't want to hear that the house we sold last Friday was to a British gent. Not joking! And, yes, they are 'being bought up by Yanks, Brits, and EU folks'. We've sold a number of times to buyers from all 3 groups. Plus Chinese, Singaporian, Russian, and Thai, and likely other nationalities I have forgotten. The new Pattaya housing development we just left had owners that I know of from Israel, Britain, India, China, Russia, Ireland, Dubai, Holland, Thailand, and three from the US, among others. The other two Pattaya housing projects we have lived at also had lots of international buyers from all over, including the 3 groups you mentioned. Yes, the topic is, indeed, foreigners and you seem to be woefully out of touch with who they are, where they are choosing to live, what they are choosing to buy in the way of housing, and how much they are spending on it. (Hint: A lot). I mentioned some weeks ago that I recently found out that Pattaya has 18 international schools, with another, Highgate, opening next year. Some, such as Rugby and Regent, are quite impressive. So, lots of foreign families with children in Pattaya. And, apparently growing numbers if a 19th school is needed.

It's obvious you haven't been to Pattaya anytime recently--or, if you have, you've managed to miss all the very expensive housing going up--and being sold--all over the place. Almost every day there's another new condo or housing project announced. Today's email brought Zensiri Lakeside Mabprachan, a new housing development of pool villas starting around 13MB. Starting, mind you. That's actually one of the more inexpensive projects I've seen recently but, still, 13MB is a fair chunk of change when many foreign buyers pay cash for their properties. Although you wouldn't be here, according to your post, plenty of rich people are choosing Pattaya, and the numbers are growing.

I was buying her story until she went into his condo. If he was attempting to rape her she should have screamed bloody murder as soon as she was able to get out of his car.

Happy to be a 'sucker' who, thank god, bought my first condo. Had I not, I would be scraping by with just my pension and SS. That worked for me, with my tight financial situation. Others more affluent might have done better with a different financial strategy. If you've followed any of my real estate posts you'll know that I don't buy and hold real estate--although that is a very sound option, in my opinion. Instead, I buy, fix up while I live in the property, and then sell quickly, making a profit on either the renovation or, in recent years, the new build of a house. This worked in the US and my spouse and I have been doing the same thing in Thailand since December 2009. We just bought our 27th property here--so not much holding going on. However, there is ample evidence that real estate does follow an upward trajectory over time, especially in the US. I've given examples of several properties that I personally owned, including the first condo I bought in the US. And, the last condo. I get updates from Zillow on other condos I have owned and they are all appreciating, as well. I know all my siblings own and they have an asset that is also appreciating, over time. Another example might be the house my parents bought in 1972 in a rather sleepy town in Pennsylvanina--not exactly a hotbed for go-go real estate. They paid $45,000 and lived in it until 2009, when my Dad died and Mom went into a nursing home. The house was sold for $150,000. I don't know what rent payments would have added up to from 1972 to 2009 had they rented but I do know the $150,000 helped pay for Mom's nursing care. So, $45,000 to $150,000. Upward, over time. I'm doing more buying and holding with our stock portfolio, which has a number of stocks paying a 5% or more dividend. I will likely be holding most of them long-term. I've given an example of long-term stock holding, in past threads, using my Dad's stock portfolio, which was, I think, a very well-rounded portfolio, with lots of blue chips and well-known, sound companies. In 2009, when he died, the portfolio had a value of around $600,000. We kids, as future heirs, did nothing except hold the stocks, as the dividends helped pay for Mom's nursing care. When she died in 2019, the portfolio was worth about $1,800,000. The portfolio was then split up. Had it not been distributed, and with absolutely no buying or selling, just holding, today it would have a value of $2,375,000. So, some good examples of the upward trajectory of both stocks and real estate, over time. Recently there was a news article I noticed on Yahoo regarding so many Americans becoming millionaires in record numbers. It's not difficult to see why. If you're a homeowner in the US, you're likely about halfway there with just your house's value. Add in other investments, the 401, and inheritances from thrifty parents and grandparents and that pretty easily gets you to a million by retirement age. My examples above are for the US. The Thai real estate market is somewhat different, with short-term buy/sells in some cases producing more, or about the same profit, as properties held long-term. At least, in our experience. But, as with America, buying and living in a property long-term here, and avoiding rent payments, will result in an asset you own rather than a bundle of rent payment receipts. There are certainly rental bargains, as well, should you prefer to rent in a foreign country.

My 'exit plan' is to, hopefully, follow my Dad's path and depart this current life, as he did, somewhere around age 95, with my brain still functioning more or less as it is today. While I am still here on earth, I need a roof over my head, as I would not do well homeless. So, I've got two choices, rent or buy. For reasons that I have touched on many times before, I choose to own, wherever I may find myself. I choose to own, even if ownership might mean losing some money. The risk is easily worth it, for me. That's me. Losing money hasn't happened with 30some properties here and in the US but I know going in that it could happen. My first rule of investing is to be comfortable with what you are spending your money on. If you're not comfortable, look for something else, for heaven's sake. With my track record, I am very comfortable with real estate. Again, that's me, and only me. If you're not, be comfortable renting and put your money somewhere else that you are comfortable with. So, now I've bought my property and your 'large wave' that had been rising suddenly drops. My property value suddenly drops. I say, so what? It's only relevant if I need to sell right then and there. If I don't, it's meaningless. It's only a loss on paper, nothing more. Nothing else has changed and I still have a roof over my head--which I am quite happy to be 'stuck holding'. I would certainly not 'panic' and 'sell at the bottom'--why would I? I'd more likely be looking for a bargain to buy, while holding my current property until values rise. I've never lost money on a property because I never sell unless I can make a profit--not exactly brain surgery or rocket science, that. If not, I hold the property and either continue to live in it or rent it out. Eventually, the 'large wave' rises once again.

You are correct that banks can adjust mortgages, but only if you have selected an adjustable-rate mortgage. If you don't want that uncertainty, choose a fixed-rate mortgage, and buy only what your income can afford. You are also correct that real estate prices can drop. That is also true for other investments, such as the stock market. You need to be prepared for some ups and downs whatever investment you make. But, as with the stock market, the long-term trajectory for real estate is upward. The very first condo I bought in America, years ago, cost me $60,000. Did a quick check and saw a similar 1-bedroom listed for $290,000. That's an upward trajectory, long-term. Even if the value of your property temporarily drops, it doesn't mean you will be kicked out and lose your home. That only happens if you fail to meet your financial requirements of home ownership. One can also be kicked out as a renter for the same reason. No answer for either except be responsible and don't try to live a Rolex lifestyle on a Timex income. I mentioned in my earlier post that the last condo I bought in the US for $170,000 is now worth $274,800. What I didn't mention, although I have spoken about it in other threads, was that after I bought it, in 2009, the condo's value dropped to $160,000. Did I actually lose $10,000 cash folding money though? No, because I didn't sell at that time. I did not, in your words, 'lose everything' when the price dropped, and would not have even if I had sold then. Just $10,000 lost of a $170,000 investment. Not $170,000 --'everything'--lost, had I sold. The price drop was just on paper. Nothing else changed financially--the monthly condo fee stayed the same, the mortgage payment didn't change. If I could make the monthly house 'nut' before, the price drop would have no bearing on my making it in the future. And, I still had a roof over my head and was not homeless. With that condo, I waited until the housing market recovered and I sold it at a small profit, as I was now living in Thailand and I didn't want to be an absentee landlord. With real estate, or the stock market, you can have on paper losses. A few months ago, on paper, my stock portfolio dropped when Trump first started tinkering with tariffs and the market panicked. On paper, it dropped about $15,000. But, again, I didn't actually lose $15,000 in cash out of my pocket because I didn't sell any stocks at a loss. My portfolio has since recovered and hit an all-time high last week, although it was down yesterday. Ups and downs, for sure, but more ups, long-term, with both real estate and the stock market.

You said exactly what I was thinking! Let's hope it happens.