newnative

I think it is like VT7, where some units were sold with garage parking spaces. When we owned at VT7 we rented a garage parking space from a VT7 owner who wasn't using it.

Agree. And, Immigration nearby, too.

Ah, yes. Been so amusing reading their excuses, wacky false explanations. etc. When all else fails, there's the classic sour grapes: well, there may have been a lot but they didn't spend anything. I, myself, pity the poor TAT guy tasked with standing outside all day with a pair of binoculars trying to count the passengers in the planes as they fly by. Not a job I would want but I guess the night shift guy has it even worse.

They are aiming for 23 million foreign and domestic visitors, not just foreign visitors.

Good luck making that work--and, speaking of work, you will need to do all that work I mentioned in my earlier post yourself to clear any profit if you have just 1 or 2 condos. And, remember, you are also doing something illegal. Daily rates may be higher but also remember that you will be paying the condo monthly maintenance fee, the water bill, the electric bill, the tv cable/internet fees, and all the costs for cleaning supplies, breakage, new linens from time to time, etc. With a long-term tenant, you only pay the condo mainenance.

You are woefully ill-informed if you think the only thing families can do in Pattaya is sit on the beach. You really need to get out more, if you are even in Pattaya, which is highly doubtful.

What makes you think Thai uni students are poor? Maybe some, but lots aren't. Sometime when you get a chance station yourself on Phetchaburi Road in the afternoon and watch all the hoards of Thai students walikng back to the metro station from the expensive private schools they are attending. Our first Bangkok getaway condo was at Lumpini Makkasan, a brand new project on Phetchaburi. When we lived there we met a Thai woman who had bought a small condo there just to stay in during the week with her son while he was in school at one of the private schools. Weekends and when school was not in session, they went back to their big house in the suburbs. Several other families were doing the same thing. Well-to-do Thai families put a premium on good educations for their children. At our new BKK condo, we often see Thai students being tutored after school at the condo sky lounge or the library. A rental near a university can be a good thing. My Bangkok sister-in-law and her husband, both in banking, have one that they rent out.

I think the financials only work if you are doing a dozen or more condos and you manage to keep them all rented most of the time. With one condo or a dozen, you need staff to check in and out the guests and check for any damage or missing items. You need additional staff to clean the condo after each rental, wash the linens, and remake the beds. You need staff to take care of the bookings and the financials, including paying the staff and supervising them. Would I want to do all that for one condo rental? Not on your life--as I have said many times, I am lazy. With a dozen or more rentals, you might be able to justify hiring several people to do the work for you--but you would still need to be involved. However, the more condos you have, the more visible you are doing your illegal activity. With just one condo, I think a long-term rental is the way to go, unless you fancy yourself a combination of front desk staff, maid, accountant, and laundry worker.

Condo fees here are an absolute bargain compared to what I was paying in the US. That's one of the reasons so many people can keep getaway condos that they only use now and then.

You said Arom Wongamat and Wyndham Grand are both 'loser projects'. I wanted to know why you thought that--and don't say its because of a building with a leaky ceiling in Bangkok. I have no idea what you are talking about with your automatic parking comment--I've never lived in a condo that had that type of parking. But, again, one buildiing's problem with something--common everywhere on earth--does not automatically translate to a blanket condemnation. Remember the San Francisco condo that was tilting? Doesn't mean all highrise condos in the US will tilt. But, that seems to be your warped thinking. My spouse and I have a Pattaya house and a Bangkok condo--both excellent investments that we can easily afford. Not sure I'd call that invested up to my 'neck'. Our investments are diversified, with cash, mutual funds, US stocks, and real estate.

As has been stated many times, the counting system has not changed. So, it is valid to compare 2023 numbers with those of 2019, and earlier, since the counting system has been the same. If they were counting 'every man and his dog' in 2021 to bolster the numbers, they were also counting 'every man and his dog' in earlier years. If they had wanted to 'bolster' the numbers to make themselves look good, they surely would have done it in 2021, when just 427,869 arrived, dogs not included.

You have no idea of the quality of any project, be it in Bangkok, Pattaya, or anywhere else. Saying Pattaya would be worse than Bangkok is just total, ignorant nonsense--especially since the leak was in Bangkok, not Pattaya. But, all nonsense, any way you look at it. No answer to my inquiry, by the way, as to why the two projects I mentioned are 'loser projects'.

What I stated was 'almost all condo projects have both large and small units, especially newer ones, which can have very small units'. Stating that older condo projects 'never had units that small' is incorrect. For example, Pattaya Condotel, an older project, has units of 30 sqm. Fly Bird has 26 sqm units. Nirun, 27 sqm. Casa Espana, 24 sqm. Etc. What I see with many newer projects is fewer large units, and these units are smaller, on average, than the large units of older projects. For example, with Arom Wongamat, a new, high-end project, except for a penthouse unit, the biggest unit size is around 82 sqm, a 2-bedroom. That size at Northshore, an older high-end project, would be a middle range one-bedroom. Large units there are around 112 sqm for 2-bedrooms, and the B Building has full floor units of 268 sqm.

Huh? How does the condition of a Ramada showroom in Bangkok have anything to do with any built or unbuilt projects in Pattaya? Makes absolutely no sense. You do know that many project showrooms are just temporary structures, with leaks not unheard of. Curious your thinking on why Arom Wongamat and Wyndham Grand are 'loser projects'.

Yes. The big Bangkok developers brought their 'Bangkok model' to town when they invaded Pattaya--Lumpini, Sansiri, SC Asset, Supalai, and Raimon Land. Some other developers, especially Riviera, expanded on the idea even more. We looked at the showroom models for Once sometime ago, when construction was just getting started. One thing I remember was that they stressed that the project was only, I believe, 900 meters from Terminal 21--or something like that. Not Walking Street, mind you, but Terminal 21. Sort of an indication of the changing state of things--much of the new construction, be it hotels, retail, or condos, is not that close to Walking Street. The new Centre Point Space, a prime example, and the new projects I mentioned in my previous post.

Yes, newer builds are definitely getting smaller units than even those of LPB--but offering lots of amenities to try to make up for the smaller sizes. Saw a project in Bangkok that had 2 bedrooms squeezed into, I think, around 45 sqm. Our View Talay 5 studios that we renovated were 48 sqm, by comparison. The smallest unit at Northshore is a 1 bedroom at 64 sqm. As you say, wth some newer projects that would be one of the largest units, and lkely be at least a 2 bedroom. I'm not sure what location you consider to be 'anywhere in demand' but LPB is right next door to Aeras, a very nice, fairly new condo project, and Cetus, Riviera Monaco, Reflection, Veranda, and Copacabana are all nearby. Nice company to be keeping. Most of the nice, new condo projects are not being built close to the Walking Street/Pattaya Beach tourist area. Instead, they are in Jomtien, Na Jomtien, Pratamnuk, Wong Amat and a few other areas. Wongamat is getting Arom and Wyndham Grand. Pratamnuk is getting Riviera Malibu. Jomtien is getting a second Arom and a second Copacabana, plus another new big project on the old Ocean One site. Several other mega projects are also going up in areas fairly far from the beach, including the big project across from Axis on Thappraya.

No worries. The vast majority of the club members have, like you, been to Pattaya, some years and years ago, some more recently. Once smitten, no matter when it was, here they all are, faithfully reading about and posting any time an article about Pattaya shows up; hence, the name of the club. So relax, it's looking good you'll likely be accepted--two posts about Pattaya in such a short time frame bodes well.

Almost all condo projects have both large and small units, especially newer ones, which can have very small units. This is not unique to Pattaya, it's the norm these days. Lumpini Park Beach, for example, runs from 28 sqm 1 bedroom units to 3 bedroom units at 153 sqm.

One of the terrific things about Greater Pattaya is the wide variety of neighborhoods--and my spouse and I have tried a lot of them--from south Jomtien to Wongamat. If Jomtien's gotten too busy for you, you might try a quieter area, such as Wongamat or the Darkside, where we have ended up. From our house near Lake Mabprachan we can jump on the Motorway and be on Sukhumvit in about 10 minutes--with no traffic lights until we get to the Sukhumvit light. From there, it's a quick,easy drive to Index, Lotus's, Home Pro, T21, the hospital, etc.

Let's return to this in May and you can show me some 'middle of the road' condos for 20,000 baht a sqm. And, no, Nirun, Fly Bird, et al don't qualify. Middle of the road condos would be projects like Atlantis, The Winner, Pattaya Condotel, Acqua, The Pride, Amazon, Trio Gems, Porch Land, The Ivy, Park Lane, Thip, and all The View Talays, both condos and residences.

There is no View Talay 4 highrise condo. There is a View Talay 4 Residence low rise. VT1 and 2 may be around 40,000 baht a sqm but VT 3 and 5 are higher--averaging around 52,000 baht a sqm. That's average--prices vary, with view and condo size often being key. Larger units, and higher floors with the best seaviews, can run around 80,000 baht a sqm. For example, VT3 has a 2 bedroom on the top floor--20--with a sqm of around 88,000 baht. I agree with you that 25,000 baht a sqm will be found with much less desirable, non-seaview projects.

Your application for the Just Can't Quit Pattaya Fan Club is winging it's way to you. Watch for it, and good luck being accepted! Hopefully, you will be deemed worthy. It is a select group, however, those many unfortunates who don't live in Pattaya, or apparently have any recent connection to Pattaya, but feel the pressing, overwhelming need to take the time out of their busy lives to read all about Pattaya, even a mundane thread like this, and then take even more time out of their busy lives to comment about this place they don't live in, and apparently don't want to live in, or even visit, but still feel that aching, burning need to make everyone aware, in no uncertain terms, that they are quite happy not being in Pattaya, thank you very much. Quite happy. . . really! I mean it. Really. So happy here, you wouldn't believe it. I could certainly stop reading and commenting about Pattaya if I wanted to. Noted. In any case, fingers crossed!

Yes, they did have 'signs advertising the fact'. Subtle signs, of course, but signs nevertheless that other Bangkokians, such as my spouse, can readily see. It's a number of different signs, from the yuppie vibe to the fit, polished look to the expensive but casual dress they like for their Pattaya excursions to the way they enter a room to the superior, city attitude they project, perhaps without even consciously knowing they are doing it. A bit like a native New Yorker recognizing another New Yorker in a West Virginia diner. Add to that, where they choose to see and be seen. Nitan is absolutely perfect for that--big, interesting, crowded with the right people, and full of lots of good spots to take selfies for their social media. We were there because my two youngish Bangkok nieces, visiting us with my Bangkok sister-in-law and brother-in-law, told us about the place and wanted to check it out this visit. We live in Pattaya and had not yet heard of Nitan; they live in Bangkok and knew about it. We would have gladly skipped it on a chaotic, super busy holiday weekend--hard to miss all those BKK license plates while we searched high and low for a parking place--but we aim to please. Our two yuppie Bangkok nieces fit right in--and loved it.

Boo hoo

Good post--and you are so right. There's always something new in greater Pattaya. How about maybe the biggest coffee/dessert/pastry cafe I've ever been in--huge, with two floors. The photo shows just a part of it. Spouse and I came across it yesterday. Nitan coffee shop. There were some farangs but it was mostly Thais, with what looked like, to my Thai spouse, a lot from Bangkok. The two desserts we tried were delicious.