newnative

So, the lesson here is don't be a callous idiot and hit and run.

What you describe is normal and seen everywhere there is retail. It's finding the right mix of supply and demand, with survival of the fittest thrown in, as well. Not an exact science, and certainly competition and rent costs factor in. If a Starbucks or Pizza Hut closes, perhaps there were one too many in that vicinity. In the case of Starbucks, there's an outlet just down the street. For customers wanting Starbucks, that might be enough. Pattaya has a Frost Magic Ice amusement park. Haven't been but I guess cold, snow and ice might be the theme. I can't predict if it will succeed but it likely has a better chance of doing ok here rather than Anchorage, Alaska. Using that same logic, I never understood Hooters opening in Pattaya, although it lasted for awhile.

They have built Once Pattaya condo on 3rd Road. They have a new condo project called Once Wongamat that is slated to be built up the street from Again Pattaya, near the new Ankara Hotel. Could be they are involved with Again Pattaya, a name I find about as strange as Once Pattaya. Although, if you put them together you get Once Again Pattaya. Hmm. Still not winning me. (And, yes, Pattaya has The Win, too.)

I think you're seeing a lot of retail churn in Pattaya because two things are in play. The city is growing tremendously and both the tourist and the resident demographic has also been changing a lot. Much of the old retail was, and is, just not hacking it. Much of it was, and still is, is just not up to what Pattaya's growth and changing demographics want. You can look at the example I gave of Terminal 21, a new shopping center, with a new shopping center take, replacing an old, tired shopping center. Both shopping centers, the old one was just not hacking it. It's much the same thing with all the new, large, very nice hotels that have been built, and are still being built. They are catering both to a different tourist demographic and changing tourist tastes and interests. The massive Centre Point 3 Resort, construction now getting started, I believe is being built on a large plot of land that had been an old, sleepy, rundown resort of tourist bungalows. It was not what current visitors to Pattaya want to stay at when they come to visit. Changing tastes and interests. I remember in late 2009 or 2010 coming to Pattaya for a day visit when my spouse and I lived outside of Rayong and had not yet moved to Pattaya. At the time, our Rayong burbs Index was a small, unairconditioned, unattractive warehouse. We stopped at Pattaya's Index and we were overwhelmed at how great it was compared to ours. Two floors! Beautiful displays! Aircon! So much more merchandise! It was literally night and day. Imagine my shock when, some years later, Pattaya's Index, which I thought was terrific, was torn down and an even bigger, nicer Index was built across the street. You see examples all over town of the same thing. From newer and better retail and tourist attractions to more upscale condo projects and housing developments. What no longer works for today's Pattaya is being replaced with what does. Retail churn is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when you often end up with something that is more suited to a town's changing demographics.

Rolling right along, 20th century just ahead.

Retail churn is found everywhere. One business closes, for whatever reason, and another one opens. Normal. Does anyone remember the old, failed eyesore shopping center that was on the large site that now houses the successful Terminal 21? New businesses can fail, of course, but they can also succeed. And, often, the new is better than the old. Something, I can't even remember it was so forgetable, was on the site that now has Centre Point Space, also a success. The constrution wall says something called Again Pattaya will be built by Dolphin Circle. I don't know if it will have a hotel component but it's a large plot to be redeveloped.

It's deja vu all over again--this time with Japanese car makers asleep at the switch, like the US car makers were when the Japanese car makers invaded. Does Honda, or Toyota, sell even one PHEV in Thailand? My spouse and I own a Honda product and we would like to buy Honda agan but the product offerings leave us underwhelmed, especially the 'new' CR-V, which should have been the 2021 model, not 2024.

You might be interested to know that the majority of Chinese tourists vsiting Thailand pre-covid were not in tour groups. Over 60% were traveling independently. I can't imagine that would have changed much after covid. There are plenty of Chinese, and Indians, with money. I am in a new housing development on the Darkside of Pattaya. About 28 homes when the project is completed. Of the sold homes, which are in the 9 to 10MB range, we have 3 Chinese families so far and 2 families from India. I see plenty of tourists from China and India at the upscale resort I visit twice a week to use the gym.

The best cheap purchase I made was my first condo, after too many years of throwing money away on rent. Just $60,000, many moons ago. Borrowed money from my Dad and, with money I had saved, finally had enough for the down payment. Paid off Dad, fixed that condo up, sold it at a profit, and bought something a little better. Rinse and repeat. Did that about 9 times while I was working in the US. Had I never bought that first cheap condo, I would be considerably poorer these days.

Yes, indeed. We are seeing a great deal of old retail of all kinds being replaced by newer and better all over Pattaya. In addition to 2nd and 3rd Road, a lot of development is going on in North Pattaya and Wongamat/Naklua. The corner piece of property you mentioned is very big--stretching around the corner in both directions with all that old ticky-tacky that was there being torn down and redeveloped. Up the street, another 'Once' condo project is being developed next to the new Ankara Hotel. Probably the biggest project currently going on in this area of Pattaya is Centre Point 3, on a huge piece of property in front of Cape Dara. Worth a look if you are in that area. The project is so big that they will not be using concrete trucks but, instead, making the concrete onsite. Centara Grand Resort, perhaps mindful of this new competition going up just down the street, has started what looks to be an extensive renovation of the whole resort. Pattaya continues to grow and change.

I think you mis-read my post, which referred to both renters and owners--who both save lots of money living here. I, too, own my house, fully paid for and bought last year. The house, a 3 bedroom 4 bath with pool outside of Pattaya, cost me 6.5MB. About $180, 000. That's less than the small 1 bedroom 1 bath condo I owned in the US, which is now worth $235,000. So, living here, I have much larger space to live in, with my own pool, for much less money. Buying my large house here, instead of that small 1 bedroom condo in the US, saved me about $55,000. Had I tried to buy a 3 bedroom with pool in the US, the savings would be even more here in comparison--in the town where I lived in the US, 3 bedroom single family homes are $500,000 and up. My response to the poster complaining about the high cost of jam and wine remains valid. Instead of laser-focusing on relatively small cost items like jam, it's important to look at the savings you achieve here on the big ticket items, especially housing. I think it's likely that your 4 bedroom house here in Thailand cost less than a 4 bedroom in your home country, and likely costs less to run each year here when real estate taxes, HOA fees, maintenance costs, and utilities are factored in. Of course, nobody likes to pay high prices on products we buy. But, it's important to look at the big picture. As I said in my earlier post, the savings you achieve on the big ticket items like housing pays for a lot of small ticket items like jam and wine.

Those poor Juristic folk. Likely a sight they can't 'unsee'.

You're citing items of relatively small expense, jam, for heaven's sake, while ignoring the really big ticket items, like keeping a roof over your head, utilities, real estate taxes, homeowner maintenance fees, and so on. Twelve years ago, I was renting out my small 1 bedroom USA condo for $1500 a month, about 54,000 baht. You can rent a 1 bedroom condo in Thailand most places for 15,000 baht a month. Of course, condos for less or more can be found depending on your budget and location. That 39,000 baht savings will buy a lot of jam and wine each month. That same small USA condo is now valued by Zillow at $273,000, about 9.8 million baht. Should you choose to own rather than rent, you can easiy find 1 bedroom condos most places in Thailand for 3MB or less, leaving much more money in the bank compared to purchasing that USA condo. Monthly condo maintenance fees, and taxes, will be far less, too. Again, more money for jam and wine.

Yes. I know my stock portfolio hit an all-time high on Friday.

Pity while all this slow, disruptive work was being done they didn't start work on either overpasses or underpasses for the major Pattaya intersections with Sukhumvit that don't have either. Three underpasses were planned, but, so far, only one has been built. The overpass work on Sukhumvit that was done south of Pattaya should continue through the Pattaya section of the road--or underpasses.

Once the third quarter is over, compare third quarter Thai domestic travel 2024 to third quarter Thai domestic travel 2023 and only then can you say whether third quarter Thai domestic travel 2024 has actually 'plummeted'. 57% might be close to the norm for third quarter travel--we don't know because the 2023 figure was not given.

Purely unscientific but I have two Thai nieces and one Thai nephew. All are upper-middle class, educated, and attractive. They are all in their middle to late 30s. None of the three are married, none have had any children, and, it seems, none are planning to ever have kids. My Thai spouse is one of 5 children, now in their 50s and 60s, and, among the five of them, just these three were produced.

I am in Thailand to be with my Thai spouse. It's been great.

Which is the same number won as India, with 1.3 billion potential standout athletes vs. Thailand's 73 million.

Now if we can just get the Seal U plug-in hybrid SUV.

Nailed it.

I still remember my first visit to Cambodia with my spouse about 12 years ago. We took a van to the border and then hired a car to take us to Siem Reap, on National Highway 1, I believe. The entire trip, almost every cross road to the paved highway was dirt. When we got to Siem Reap, many of the streets were very bumpy gravel. The pot holes were so deep on some streets that we could barely go walking pace on the 3-wheeled vehicle that took us around town. When we left Siem Reap to do some touring, it wasn't long after we got out of the town that the electric poles stopped--no electricity after that point. No electricity out of town and also no running water, wih the houses mostly small 1 or 2 room wooden structures on stilts. We both were comparing Cambodia to Thailand--two countries right next door to each other yet one so advanced and the other still so primitive. We had sort of taken for granted up to that point that most places we went in Thailand we'd be on a good road to get there--and would have electricity and running water when we arrived. The visit to Cambodia really was an eye-opener as neither of us expected such a stark difference in development. Happily, we returned to Cambodia in 2017 and we noticed some progress, especially in Siem Reap, where our visit was centered.

With the Motorway improvements it's no longer 2 hours to BKK airport. Leaving Pattaya right now, it's 1 hour 21 minutes according to my phone map app. We can usually be at our downtown Bangkok condo in 2 hours or less, non-rush hour.

So true. And, if they did actually visit, it was years ago and they didn't venture far from Soi 6 or Walking Street.

I think your title is incorrect, at least for me. I certainly don't 'hate' Phuket. My spouse and I had a very nice time when we visited. For living year-round, though, we prefer Pattaya, hands down. We like being just an easy drive to Bangkok, where we have a getaway condo. We like being close to a big airport, for when we travel. We like Pattaya's size--not too big and not too small--it's easy to get to the places we go to frequently. We like Pattaya's wide variety of housing choices at all price points to rent or to own, and it's different, interesting neighborhoods to choose from. We like the wide variety of shopping choices, and health care services. And, we like the expat community here, where we have made some very nice friendships.