newnative

Wake up, America. He's a wannabe Hitler.

Been there twice, once by van/taxi, the other by plane. Definitely fly.

Beautiful view Thanks for sharing.

Pattaya has some big, highrise condo projects on the way. Contrary to some of the comments on this thread, developers do find buyers for their projects, which allows them to go on and plan new projects. Some examples: Arom Wong Amat was started right at the beginning of covid and topped out not too long ago. Apparently, buyers were found for this pricey project and the developers are beginning another highrise project, Arom Jomtien. Also in Jomtien, the next Copacabana project is getting started. Copacabana Coral Reef will be 56 floors with 1872 units. I believe this project has had a name change from Copacabana Golf. Following previous successful projects such as Riviera Wong Amat, Jomtien, Monaco, and Ocean Drive, the next Riviera project will be a highrise in Pratumnak, Riviera Malibu. Back in Wong Amat, Habitat Group, which has built a number of Pattaya projects, has announced Wyndham Grand, another highrise project which boasts a location just 250 meters to the beach and 900 meters to Terminal 21. Across from Axis condo, the massive 67-story Grand Solaire is under construction. When finished, it will have over 2,400 units and, supposedly, will be the tallest building in Pattaya. Another massive, new project under construction is Marina Golden Bay, two 51-story towers with 1800 units, located off of Thepprasit Road. And, finally, Skypark Lucean, which seems to be on the building site where, long ago, I believe Ocean One condo was slated for. Phase 1 is planned as two towers of 60 and 31 stories, with 900 units. Pattaya's skyline continues to change dramatically from when my spouse and I arrived in 2010. At that time, with highrise condos, there were the View Talays, Jomtien Complex towers, Metro, Jomtien Plaza, Royal Cliff, Northshore, and the three sisters in Wong Amat--Sky Beach, Park Beach, and Silver Beach. PKCP. Saranchol. Pattaya Hill. Plus, some others scattered around. Now, I couldn't begin to count all the new condo projects that have been built since 2010--which does not seem that long ago. You really get a sense of how big Pattaya has become when you are driving in on the Motorway and see the skyline in the distance. It's definitely a city now, with an ever-changing city skyline.

Spouse and I are thinkng about giving each other watches.

Totally incorrect in your conclusion. Most tours work the way you describe--the fees are paid in the country of origin and the tour company pays for lodging, food, transportation, etc. Fun fact: In 2019, 60% of the Chinese tourist to Thailand were not in tour groups.

Absolutely. ECON 101.

Your statement, 'The problem with higher numbers is it will turn away higher spending tourists.' is not supported by actual data. From 2015 to 2019, higher spending tourists--which are those from Western countries and the Middle East, did not decline in numbers. Except for Australia, which declined slightly, all the other western countries that are tracked increased their numbers during this 5-year period when Asian visitors to Thailand were skyrocketing. The European countries had gains from around 6 to 13%--except Russia, which increased about 67%. Visitors from the US also had a big jump--up 34%. The problem with your 'Quality not Quantity' statement is that Thailand needs both. Quality to fill the 5-star hotels and quantity to make sure all the other thousands of guesthouses, hostels, and lower-ranking hotels all over Thailand are filled. Pre-covid, it was doing well in attracting both. Hopefully, things will get back on track as the world moves back to normal and the world economy improves.

The whole point is it doesnt matter who owns the hotel--or who stays at it, for that matter, whether they're Chinese, American, or whatever. What matters is it benefits the local economy. Does Paris care that Paris Disneyland is owned by the Walt Disney Company, an American company? No. It's a big contributor to the local economy, providing local jobs, and that's what is important.

2019 tourist revenue: Asia, not including China: 738 billion China: 543 billion Europe: 462 billion Americas: 116 billion Thailand did not have all its 'eggs in one basket. And, the biggest egg wasn't China, it was the rest of Asia. China was, of course, the #1 country for tourist revenue that year.

You must not have stayed too long. They sell far more than just laminated furniture.

Instead of wondering, why don't you go to that supposedly Chinese-owned hotel in Jomtien and ask the manager how many of the employees are from China? Then it's on to the tour bus companies. How many of the drivers are from China? And the mechanics and the rest of the staff? While you're doing that I'll tackle the Holiday Inn and see if I can find out how many Americans they have cleaning the rooms and so on. Together, we can get to the bottom of this! Inquiring minds want to know!

What are the facts?

I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect someone from China to visit Thailand 2 times, let alone 3, unless they own property here. There are lots of countries that my spouse and I only plan to visit once. For example, we visited Portugal and Spain last year and enjoyed both countries. But, we saw about all we wanted to see so it's highly unlikely we will make a second trip to either one--there are too many other countries we want to see for the first time. We've been to Australia, and could go again, but we haven't been to New Zealand yet so we would probably choose to go there rather than make a second trip to Australia. If I was still living in the US, with no ties to Thailand, I would likely just visit Thailand once, if at all. A second visit to Asia would take me somewhere else new. I think that's fairly normal for many travelers. Lots of countries to see, limited time. Luckily for Thailand, there are 1.4 billion Chinese. Even if most Chinese choosing to visit Thailand only come once, that 1.4 billion should provide a steady stream of first-time visitors.

The Chinese spend in 2019 was about 49,000 baht/tourist. 543 billion baht. Europeans spent about 69,000 baht/tourist. 462 billion baht. 'Americas' spent about 71,000 baht/tourist. 116 billion baht. Even though their spend was less per tourist, the nearly 11 million Chinese tourists collectively spent more than Europe's 6.7 million visitors, and a great deal more than the visitors from 'Americas'. All three markets, of course, are important, as you can see by the revenue numbers. Left out from the above is a fourth category, and the biggest--Asia, not including China. The spend, at 41,000 to 45,000 baht/tourist, was the lowest, but the tourist number was the largest, at over 18 million visitors. Using the lowest spend, 41,000, yields 738 billion baht. 738 billion baht in non-China Asia revenue plus China's 543 billion baht in revenue shows pretty clearly, I think, the importance of the Asian market to Thailand. All four markets contribute to a diverse tourist economic demographic, important when a country like Thailand has a wide range of price points for tourist businesses.

Yes, I liked that series, too.

Me, too. Black and white tv and only a few channels when I was really young. I remember at one point--I think I was maybe 5 or 6--someone in the family sent away for a clear plastic screen that could be taped over the tv screen. The top third was blue for sky, the bottom third was green for grass, and it was beige in the middle, I suppose for skin color--few blacks on tv in those days. We taped the plastic to the tv screen and sat back to enjoy our 'color' tv. What in the world were we thinking? Lasted maybe a few days, then it was back to black and white. I do remember, starting in 1964, living a couple of years in Alabama--DoD Dad was stationed there--and my best friend actually had a color tv, one of the very few in the neighborhood. I would go over to watch Bonanza in color, and some of the other shows being broadcast in color--not all the shows were in color then.

Interesting. In 2019 it was 60% of the Chinese traveling independently, and not in tour groups.

Sorry, your information is incorrect. You're simply repeating false information you have read, or incorrect tidbits picked up here or there, along with your false observations. In the latter, you see a number of groups being lead by someone with a flag, and you think, all Chinese travel in tours. Incorrect. And, they may not even be from China; they could be from Korea or Taiwan. Of course, a big group is far more visible than a couple traveling, or three or four friends traveling, but perception is not always reality. As I said in my earlier post, the majority of the Chinese tourists in 2019 were independent travelers and, no, they were not 6 million backpackers. 6 million, by the way, is not, as you say, a 'few independent' travelers, it's a lot. Like far more than the visitors from any other country. Chinese tourists spent 543 billion baht in Thailand in 2019 and, once again no, the 543 billion did not end up back in China, no matter what so and so says. Had that been the case, why would Thailand be trying so hard to get the Chinese back? If there's no money in it, why make the effort? This is not brain surgery.

As a gay man, who grew up with very little gay representation in movies or on tv, and most of that being of a very negative, hurtful nature, I am pleased at the number of shows with positive gay characters that can be found these days. Recently, Sex Education and Heartstopper were both well-done, I thought. I think you will find that majority straght character shows still far outnumber majority gay character shows. So, relax. And, take heart, nobody is going to turn gay--or straight, for that matter--by watching a gay or straight tv show or movie. For maybe the millionth time, it doesn't work that way. For the OP, being gay is perfectly normal--for a gay person. Just like being straight is perfectly normal--for a straight person. Hard to believe that in 2023 we would have someone like you complaining about gay shows making being gay seem 'perfectly normal'. It is, get over it already. I suggest watching some of the shows you distain and perhaps you'll learn something. Maybe start with the two shows I mentioned--they both have lots of straights, too!

Utter nonsense. The 543 billion baht was spread all over Thailand. The 10 million Chinese tourists in 2019 had to sleep somewhere, eat somewhere, be transported to different places, and entertained at various tourist attractions all over the country, etc., etc.. It bears remembering that the majority of Chiese tourists in 2019 were not with tour groups. They were independent travelers, spending independently wherever they wanted in Thailand.

Just more empty, useless chitter chatter. 'Encourage'. Yeah, that'll work.

Well, that was smart waiting until next year--likely he will be paroled by then. Problem solved. That was easy!

Thanks for the info. Hope things work out with your sister.

Yes, absolutely. Bears remembering that he lost the popular vote badly in both elections. The majority of the voters rejected him both elections.