newnative

When I moved here in 2010 I shipped just two furniture items, beautiful, prized antique Korean chests, one of which I had inherited. I also shipped meaningful artwork and art objects that I had been taking along with me on each and every one of my numerous moves in the US--I see some of the story of my life in them. I would say try to ship what is very meaningful to you, if you can. Anything else can probably be replaced here.

Poor Pattaya. It has Leaver saying don't build anything new and nice that might attract more visitors because older projects already here like Avenue might suffer. (Hello, Orlando. Hello, Las Vegas.) Now we have you saying that 'you fail to see what is attractive about Pattaya', it's a 'dump', so don't build anything new and nice that might attract more people. (And, perhaps, make Pattaya more attractive.) Luckily for Pattaya it seems to have attracted a number of companies focused on what Pattaya can become rather than what it was. If last weekend was any indicator, their efforts are starting to pay off.

Wasn't this your week to be a glass half-full guy? That big mall I mentioned, Tysons Corner Center? Not only was it one of the biggest, it also had, when I lived there, one of the top sales per square foot. But, even that mall had occasional closed stores. Seeing some closed spaces at T21 or Festival in 2019 does not automatically translate into a mall not doing well. Some businesses work, some don't--true in every mall anywhere in the World. I don't know anybody who lost money at The Base; certainly not original buyers, including me. The much pricier Edge is opening right next door. Hipflat has The Base at around 108,000 baht per square meter. Edge is around 173,000 baht per sq. meter. You probably see the Edge opening as a negative for The Base--more competition. If I was still an owner I would see it as a big plus--an affirmation that the location is prime, with the added synergy of another nice project going in, just adding to the desirability. Some buyers might want to pay 173,000 a sqm for the newer Edge. But, there will also be other buyers who would rather pay less for the same location and get a bigger condo, to boot. Aquatique, as I said, is mixed-use. It will certainly have some tourist features--like the zoo and the aquarium, and the hotels. You seem to think that adding tourist features in a location will be a negative for someone operating a tourist spot nearby. In reality, that's not usually how it works. Instead, synergy, which I just mentioned, happens. Did Disney World fold when Universal Studios came to Orlando? No. Also no when many other tourist attractions opened. Every new attraction just made Orlando an even more desirable tourist destination, drawing more visitors. Likely Aquatique will be the same for Pattaya. That same synergy is on display in the T21 area, by the way.

Certainly some did come just for the day, as did many locals. But they likely had to eat a couple meals and maybe do some shopping while they waited for the fireworks in the evening. With all the hotel rooms I saw lit up, many stayed for the weekend to watch both shows. Didn't get to T21 but Central was pretty busy on Sunday. If you went into Pattaya I think you would agree it was quite busy Friday thru Sunday. I know, next you'll say they all brought their own food with them and nobody bought a single thing while they were here so the whole event was a waste. But, that wasn't my observation.

Interesting! Thanks for sharing and have a great day.

Central Festival and T21 were both doing well, pre-covid. When T21 opened my partner and I could finally start going back to Festival on weekends--before it had become just too crowded and parking was awful. Yes, some bars weren't doing well--victims of Pattaya's changing tourism demographics. Sad, but that's business. Domestic tourists were coming in 2019, by the way; they are now just more noticeable. Sorry, supply and demand and build a better mousetrap still apply. If some poorly designed, poorly managed malls like Avenue fall by the wayside, again sad but that's how it is. Should we say no to T21 or Central Festival being built to protect a struggling Avenue? I don't think so. Investors invest knowing there is always risk. The retail business is always evolving. If Avenue can't make it as a shopping center, at some point it may close or be repurposed to something else. Or torn down and something else more suitable built--the land is valuable. None of this is unique to Pattaya. I used to live in northern Virginia and one of the biggest malls in the country at that time was Tysons Corner Center. Huge--and it expanded several times. That didn't stop a large new mall from being built literally right across the street. Before on-line shopping there might have been enough business for both. But now? Likely some repurposing going on--although I haven't been back in years. Am I losing any sleep over how the investors in both malls are doing? No. Here's a thought. Why not, for a week, be a glass half-full guy? Instead of always seeing only the negative, maybe look for the positive in things for a week. Usually there is some positive to be found. For example, T21. You apparently see T21 as a negative. Something new opening maybe puts something already here, like Avenue, at risk. How about the positives, instead? T21 opening was clearly the spur for a great deal of good, new development in that area--which continues today. Nice, new hotels like Ozo opened. Amari expanded. Tiffany's expanded. New restaurants on adjacent streets opened. Grande Centre Point succeeded and now GCP 2 is being built. Some new projects also on the northern part of Third Road--I remember visiting one that boasted how close it was to T21. Tired, old Central Center got a wake up call and morphed into Marina. Yes, likely a few marginal businesses closed. But hundreds of new jobs were created and lots of new businesses opened. Easily a net positive. You fret that this new Aquatique development might put T21 and Festival, in your words, 'out of business'. Never mind that it's not really another mall. It's a mixed-use project--with primarily hotels, residential, and entertainment. Like T21, I think the opposite will happen. Instead of harming other businesses in the area, it will likely draw in more tourists and be a net positive.

I think it depends on what happens with Grand Sole Hotel and the land just to the north of the hotel. Grand Sole is apparently going to be 'redone' and 'rebranded' according to an article I read. 'Redone' is quite vague--could mean anything. If the current building is kept and stays the same height, upper floors in the A Building at Centric shouldn't lose much view. Centric sits back far enough from the beach that construction of Aquatique closer to the beach wouldn't totally block the view. See the photo attached of a 33rd floor condo we owned there in Building A. You would still have some seaview and coastline view. If Grand Sole is redone to 50 stories, that would be another matter since it is right in front of Building A. I have no idea how high they would be allowed to build. Ditto for the large tract of land north of the hotel. That would likely have more of an impact on Building B. It will be interesting to see how it all develops.

Soon to likely be dead last--despite the PM demanding improvement. Another one of his useless demands, to be filed with all the others. Wasn't the only English speaker among the rescued cave boys a Cambodian? Pretty much says it all.

I'd say just about everybody with some sort of business. Here's an example. Some time ago a small lot next to my condo was turned into a pay parking lot. Never saw anybody pay to park there. This weekend it was packed with cars. Yes, I know. Just one weekend and I doubt this parking lot is a gangbusters idea. But, you asked who made money. Lots did.

You brushed off my main point, that Pattaya has now become attractive enough that it can attract large numbers of domestic tourists--that will come and book rooms at the hotels, eat at the restaurants, shop at the shops, etc. The fireworks are over but this morning there's a fair number of people on the beach--and it's only 7:30 as I type this. That's a plus for Pattaya. Of course domestic tourists and weekend tourists and special events will never be enough to sustain Pattaya's now large tourist infrastructure. Everyone knows that. T21--just one example--was built to handle large numbers of tourists--both domestic and international--plus locals. Pattaya needs the international tourists back. But, domestic tourists visiting is encouraging. I think back to 2019 and things were going pretty well here. Some businesses, of course, were not doing well--that's always the case anywhere--but overall the economy was good. Which brings me to your point that new businesses shouldn't open because older businesses already here might suffer. Sorry, that's not how it works. And, thank goodness for that or we'd all be still riding horses rather than driving cars. Like it or not, you have supply and demand and build a better mousetrap at play. Is the supply of western bars too great for the current demand? If so, some may fail. If a better hotel opens next to a rundown, old relic, it might succeed and the older hotel fail. Or, it might attract new customers to that particular area and some might stay at the older hotel. Either way, that's just reality.

Just back from the fireworks--which were spectacular, as always. Looking out at north Pattaya from my balcony. Lots and lots of lights on in all the hotels I can see: Mytt, A-01, Holiday Inn, Grand Palazzo, Cape Dara, Dusit, Mercure, and Grande Centre Point. Can't see Amari but it's likely busy, too. Many of the smaller boutique hotels have also opened and they look full, as well. Looking south when I was watching the fireworks, Hilton and other hotels in that direction looked busy, too. This is without any of your 'cheap Chinese, Russian, and Indian package holiday tourists'. This is without hardly any international tourists at all. This is without much of Walking Street being open. Yes, there's a special event going on this weekend but that doesn't detract from the fact that Pattaya is now able to attract large numbers of domestic tourists that will come for a visit. It hasn't happened overnight but it's clear that new projects like Terminal 21, the beach restoration, new attractions, new condo projects, and all the nice, new hotels that have been built--large and small--have made Pattaya a more attractive destination for many. In my opinion, Aquatique is another big positive--adding more nice hotels, residences, retail, and some sorely needed non-bar entertainment to Beach Road. Tired, old Grand Sole Hotel is also planned to be redone and rebranded. It's all good and each new thing contributes to making the whole area better--and more attractive to tourists. You talk about cutting the pie into smaller slices--maybe true for too many western bars slicing a not-growing too much western bar clientele pie. But the regular tourist pie can be made bigger, as shown by this weekend. Will Aquatique opening cause some businesses to close? Perhaps. But, it's much more likely it will do the reverse--draw more tourists in, to the benefit of other businesses.

Blah, blah, blah. And, once again, a massive kick of the can down the road.

Certainly wasn't a 'wasteland' yesterday and isn't today. Lots and lots of people the whole length of Pattaya Beach and gridlock on the roads. Can't all be 'local Thais and the odd expat'.

Take heart. Depending on when it gets started, it might be done sooner than you think. Private industry, unlike the government, can move pretty fast. Seems like just yesterday that The Edge and the massive Grande Centre Point 2 were breaking ground. Now, The Edge is done and GCP 2 is well along. Ditto for the new hotel across from Central Festival and the one going up across from GCP 2. I find all the development to be a positive for Pattaya--including this new project. And, Pattaya can still draw a crowd. I'm sitting on my balcony looking at a very busy Beach Road--it's been that way since early afternoon. Once it opens, the new parking garage at T21 should help matters some with big events. It's nice to see the activity. The hotels all looked like they were doing a good business last night--also good to see.

Blah, blah, blah. I didn't notice any predictions on tourist numbers for 2022 in the article, just easily forgotten revenue predictions.

I would start with the condo management. When my partner and I have done renovations that involved actual structural changes they had to be approved before work started and the work was inspected when we were finished. You want to make sure you are not doing any unsafe work that could negatively impact the building's structure and endanger other residents. Whether they are referred to as load-bearing walls or load-bearing pillars, both terms are referring to walls of varying widths that, in most cases, cannot be removed, especially in highrises. Some are, indeed, pillar-width but others can be wider than a typical pillar. In the plan I'll post, you'll see the thicker load-bearing walls in this project are wider than a pillar. If you had two side-by-side units you could probably break through where the dining room is or the bedroom closet but not where the sofa or bed are--those wall sections are load-bearing. In this plan, we removed a low wall about 40cm high on the balcony that separated the seating area from the area in green to make a larger, more usable balcony seating area. Even though the structural change was minimal, we still had our plans approved by the condo management to make sure we weren't doing anything unsafe with the building's balcony construction.

It apparently takes very little to make this PM happy. Unfortunately for the country.

Brighton Hotel is open for business so you are also incorrect on that, as well as much of what you've stated in your other posts. I don't know or care how fast construction is going on the two Dolphin Circle projects--or any other projects under construction. I just know construction continues on both projects, and, with a few exceptions, most other projects. You, however, seem to be changing your story--first saying everything is 'stalled' but now switching to construction not being 'at speed', whatever that even means. In any case, I believe I have made the points I wanted to make and wish you a good day.

Your post stated that highrise construction has, in your words, 'all but stalled'. I gave a number of examples of where it hadn't stalled and asked for your examples of stalled projects. You named the airplane project and the Third Road 'bird cage' project. With the Third Road 'bird cage' project, well, since it's finished, construction was not stalled, so not a very good example. So, your actual stalled project is the 747, not really a highrise by any stretch of the imagination. If you re-read my post, nowhere do I make any comment on whether any of these projects will ultimately be successful. Some may, some may not. For some, it might take years with covid. Things succeed, things fail. The way of the World. I was merely pointing out that your post stating that highrise construction had 'all but stalled' is not correct. I think it's important to keep perspective. You look at all these construction projects and think, where will they find buyers? Instead, look at each individual project on its own merits. For example, the new Arom condo project I mentioned that is apparently going forward. It will sit on a beautiful piece of ocean front property in Wong Amat, one of the best parts of Pattaya and one of the most popular with Bangkokians. The project has just 319 units. With Bangkok having around 10 million people, is it just possible that 319 buyers might be found that are looking for a very nice Pattaya getaway condo? And, possibly a few international buyers might be found, as well. Maybe even a few local area buyers. And, initially, not all 319 buyers need to be found. A project can be successful with some units remaining to be sold; there's a number of examples of that in Pattaya and elsewhere.

Which highrises under construction are 'stalled' in Pattaya? The Edge highrise is just about finished. Work continues on the new hotel down the street from it. Work also continues on Grande Centre Point 2 and the new highrise hotel going up across the street from it by Dolphin Circle. Construction on Once Condo is not stalled. Neither is it stalled on the two Riviera highrise projects and Copacabana in Jomtien. I haven't driven by yet but a billboard tells me that construction has started on the Arom highrise condo in Wong Amat--with covid raging for nearly two years this project could have been postponed or cancelled. Discovery Beach Hotel just finished it's highrise third building. Several highrise condos on 3rd Road I can't remember the names of are nearing completion, not stalled. There may be a project here and there that is stalled--I can think of a way too-big, way too underfunded project in a bad location where work was started and stopped off and on years before covid--but I believe the majority of the highrises under construction in Pattaya are still going forward. I don't see any highrises stalled in the area of Bangkok where I live part-time either--an office building just finished construction next door and several highrise condos under construction in the area continue. Again, there may be some stalled projects but I think the majority continue there, as well. Some Bangkok builders have shifted some of their future projects to smaller, lowrise condo projects and house projects.

Stopped reading as soon as I hit 'SHA'. That always loses me, as it likely does most potential tourists. The Thailand Pass will never be seamless as there are way too many odd and difficult patches that need to be threaded together, resulting in a big mess nobody wants.

Always, always, always just discussing, discussing, discussing--endlessly. With apologies to Nike, JUST DO IT. Try a pilot program for 5 years with a limited number of casinos at selected areas of the country. Evaluate after 3 years, tweak if needed, and consider expansion at that point.

Dismal figures. And, how many were actual tourists and not returning Thais and expats?

View Talay 3 and VT 7 have smaller pools. One thing to keep in mind in normal times is the size of the pool linked with the number of units in the project. VT5C and 5D are both big projects and have almost 1000 units each, with one pool each. The pools are fairly large, but so are the number of units. Compare that to Riviera Jomtien. Also around 1000 units but it has 3 pools, including a large ground floor lagoon pool. I lived at 5C and 5D some years ago and at times the pools could seem crowded with the large number of residents, but likely not a problem right now.

Going from 2,000 tourists to 3,000 is not by any means 'mushrooming'. At best, it's creeping slowly upward. Very slowly. Still absolutely dismal, where it will remain until traveling to Thailand is made easy.