Matt199

@blackcab I really appreciate what you're writing. Especially about how easy it is to try and get a ruling. I had no idea. I guess then every employee will be pressured by friends/family to give it a try.

Could you share what in practice can I expect from a ruling from someone making 20k THB a month and being let go without cause in first 90 days? I just want to be prepared and not get a shock if I have to pay a lot and set aside maybe even a budget for this.

Unfortunately, it's a risk that I have to take. I'm happy with 75% of staff that I hire (after making reference checks), but some negative can come up within first weeks especially if clients complain and feedback sessions don't work to fix.

2 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

If you hire an employee longer than the probation period, you have to pay them severance if you terminate them without cause. It's as simple as that. If you try and get around the law, it will be an expensive mistake. Thai labour law is designed to protect the employee and works on the basis that there is an uneven distribution of power between the employer and the employee.

 

It sounds like you want to initiate a Service Level and KPI program and you want to include mandatory minimum performance into your employment contracts. If you do that then be sure that the KPI measurements are equitable, realistic and timely, otherwise the Labour Court will find that your employment contracts were completely unrealistic and were designed to give you an easy way to terminate employees.

 

If you are going to put something like ISO 9001:2015 in place then you will be using international standards and a trained Thai speaker who will be able to competently onboard your company. If, however, you are going to set the goalposts yourself then there is a possibility that it will turn around and bite you quite hard.

Thanks once again. Much much appreciated. The way I understand probation period is that there is nothing like a "probation period" per se. Even if I let them go early within a month or two, I would still need to have a reason, correct? Ad then they would also need to sign-off their resignation. If they don't, could be trouble. There's just no severance pay if they worked less than 120 days. Is my understanding correct?

Unfortunately, the KPI program would be impossible to implement given the relationship-like nature of the position. 

18 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Document, Document, and Document.

Documentation of past performance, letters of reprimand, a map of training for improvement and the follow-up letter indicating they have failed to meet the minimum expectations of the employer, and then the termination letter can be issued, with a in person final meeting with another manager in the room which outlines what type if any severance pay they will be receiving.  But then even the best plans of termination go bad sometimes.  Most folks know the day is coming if they have failed to do what's expected and management has apprised them.  To terminate a contract without just cause can open the door for legal issues.

Anywhere where I can read more about this, get templates etc., or everything is practical know-how? Thanks!

17 hours ago, blackcab said:

Successive short term contracts in an attempt to avoid severance pay are a very bad idea.

 

Section 20 of the Labour Protection Act states that if an employee has not worked continuously because the employer intended to deprive the employee of severance pay (or any other right), all periods of employment will be counted as a cumulative period of employment when determining what rights the employee is entitled to. Furthermore, the Labour Court will probably rule heavily against the employer for attempting to bypass the Labour Protection Act and deprive the worker of their statutory rights.

Thanks for sharing. I can prepare to give severance according to the rules, but I will like to have an open door and have employees constantly try do their best given that there's a likelihood of their contract not being extended. Is there such a possibility?

Hi guys,

How to fire someone in Thailand? Considering he/she is on an employment contract.

I understand the severance pay out, how much to pay how depending on number of months worked etc., What is not clear to me is the process. I would like to limit the likelihood of someone taking me to court for unjustified firing, and also, if such case arises of course to be able defend successfully. 

Also, should I instead be using term contracts? like 3 month contracts? I understand that as per Thai law the contract isn't fixed if the nature of work does not have a specific end. So technically, I couldn't use 3-month contracts that roll-over for full timers, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the practice in Thailand to be doing so.

Thanks in advance

On 9/17/2020 at 5:01 PM, blackcab said:

 

Yes, the employee would take you to Labour Court and easily win their claim if you did that. It's quite a process to terminate an employee for a valid reason and not have to pay them severance.

 

I terminated an employee after numerous documented verbal and written warnings and some really atrocious behaviour on their part. The employee took the company to Labour Court and won. My mistake cost the company well over 100,000 baht.

What was your mistake if you're willing to share? What's the best way to let someone go and not face monetary penalties?

Hi guys,

What can I do to prevent an employee from taking a sick leave? What do you guys do? if you're running a company

This is first time where I feel that the employee is dishonest. For the first 120 days of "probation" the employee did not take any sick leave at all. First day after probation took his first sick leave day. In last 90 days he took 15 days. They aren't consecutive.

Is there anything I can do to deter this type of behaviour?

Thanks,

On 7/21/2020 at 2:01 PM, DaftToPutRealName said:

No worries @Matt199 ????

Unfortunately it's 1 enrolment per employee per SSO, so 1 person with 2x SSO can't be done.
You might find some Thai who would take a 1 off payment for the hassle of their ID but then you start to muddy the waters into "too dodgy" territory, plus Thai tend to be (and probably rightly so!) pretty dubious about signing anything.

Usually your lawyer would have a solution for this as long as you cover the fees involved with processing

them into the system. As you said earlier - technically no need for salaries to be paid up just like registered capital is "on paper".

@DaftToPutRealName Thanks for the extra info. Much appreciated! Question though, why would anyone need to sign anything? The way I understand it is you just need someone's ID, and that person should have their SSO being paid for, correct? 

Thanks @DaftToPutRealName; much appreciated!

Can you use someone for the SSO registration and filing who already has a job, is employed and his/her company pays SSO?

Hi guys,

I'm trying to get a 12 month Non-B visa from Bangkok Immigration. Me and my business partner have 6-8 Thai staff for last 3 months. My understanding was that we cannot get a Non-B because we don't meet the SSO payments requirement of 8 staff.

But then a visa agent told me that it's possible to pay SSO related amounts "late" and for historical months to fix the problem. Can anyone share experience on this or confirm if this is true? Apparently, salaries don't need to be paid out. Only social security needs to be filed/paid. 

Actually, it's a good question guys. I already have a 1 year Non-B issued from abroad that expired a week ago or so. I'm not sure if I will be getting a new visa or an extension. 

Just now, UncleMhee said:

OP your choice of topic concerns me......if you want it directly from an IO best let them broach the subject. 

As mentioned already...."Agents" are the usual go to and liaison with the IO not yourself personally!!

It's through a 3rd party, not directly with IO.

Good question. There is no alternative it seems.

The risks I was thinking is that my name and passport number will be on some dirty farang list. The next time I might not be able to process visa through regular process, or the IO will ask multiple of what it costed before because they know I paid. Or maybe they will reach out with some blackmail. That's the risks I thought of but could be more.

Hi guys,

What are the possible consequences of getting a visa, in particular Non-O Volunteer and Non-B, not through a regular process but under a table?

Thanks,

Matt

I doubt about the OP's connection to the CEO as there were 4 Lazada CEOs since launch in 2012... I also think that buying "hundreds and hundreds" of products and having 1 faulty is an impressive score. Amazon would be jealous.

Good news for tourists. Any information on Non-B holders?

Hello,

I have a bank account in Bangkok Bank and just last week I opened in Kasikorn bank. Both banks don't seem to show details where an incoming transfer came from i.e. which company, name, or tax ID or anything. I find just very bizarre and can't understand why.

I was under the impression that Bangkok bank is arcane and a more modern bank will show something as simple as sender details for incoming transfer. It does show details for international senders, but not for local, Thai ones. Kasikorn bank does not seem to show details for local senders either.

Is there any bank in Thailand for SMEs that will show me Thai sender's details when I check from which company/client the money came from? That's the most basic feature of online banking. I can't understand how is it missing.

17 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

You will need to talk to immigration to see if they require the capital to be paid up. Then speak to your accountant about ways capital can be paid up. There are multiple ways this could happen.

Can you share more? As much as I am focusing now on hiring new staff, this point might be an issue. 

I understood that capital has to be registered, not paid up. We have 4 mio THB registered capital, but money is taken out as a loan on which we pay interest. It seemed like a standard process to our accountant.

We haven't had an issue getting Work Permits this way, but is this an issue when applying for Non-B extension at Thai Immigration in Bangkok? 

9 hours ago, khunPer said:

There has been several threads about it, one of them here, the list at bottom of article might take you to more details...

 

Thank you @khunPer for sharing, but it seems that in this thread there isn't anything about what @meinphuket wrote, which is that if you had work permit from company A for a specific activity, you can perform work for company B as well for other activity. I would like to learn more about it.

9 hours ago, meinphuket said:

That is no longer true.

@meinphuket can you elaborate? I always thought that's the case. What has changed? Would help me

Thanks @blackcab

Pretty much perfect, eh? Not great. About the capitalization, that's already been done at a time of incorporation, so no worries there.

@JackThompson Thanks for sharing. Interestingly, we were able to apply with my business partner for 2 Work Permits last year having 1 employee only and it has been successful. This year, Work Permit has been extended for 1 year despite having only 6 employees. At least our lawyer seemed quite confident in getting us WP, but less confident in getting us Non-B Visa extensions stating the 8 employee requirement for 2 WP. If the case is that they can pay us a "visit", then I'd prefer to add 2 legitimate employees instead of "ghost" ones. 

I am wondering if anyone has been successful in obtaining Non-B extensions at Thai Immigration with less then 4 Thai employees per Work Permit?

@ubonjoe Thanks; that's definitely good news.

Are there any downsides to it? I heard that Immigration can pay you a visit any time and you are on their "radar" vs having Non-B from abroad. I understand this question goes beyond what's written officially of course, but I am curious about this aspect.

Thanks @ubonjoe and @OneMoreFarang

I don't have my passport with me, but the 90 day entry ended in sometime in June, to qualify me for the amnesty that allows me to stay until end of July. 

Even if I hire enough Thais to be able to apply for the visa, there won't be enough time since they require SSO for last 3 months. Which means that we will have to leave the country and apply for Non-B outside of Thailand. 

What is the difference in having a 1 year visa at Thai Immigration vs having a Non-B issued in a Thai consulate abroad? Is there a difference?