wildewillie89

17 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Sorry to steal this subject.

 

@wildewillie89 What was the kind of mange your dog had? Ours has Dermodex, and it is famous for being very difficult to treat. But the results with Ivermectine are better then with Bravecto....

 

Arjen.

Dermodex also. That is why I said mange is one of those things. I have seen dogs that spot ons will cure it. I have seen dogs that a simple diet change cures it. Ours, nothing worked until we tried Bravecto. 

Which is why I posted the study. As Bravecto has been proven to work. NexGard also. Although, they were funded by the Merial.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4807374/

12 hours ago, wrestler said:

 

2= name/address of a good vet.

If you Google Kittipong Animal Hospital you will see the vet's Facebook page come up with details. All Thai vets are pretty useless as they don't keep up with Western trends/plus poor schooling. However, if you take your Mrs and explain to her the very fine details, then this guy has more Western thinking than many other vets in the area. He speaks a basic level of English, obviously knows the science terms. He has a good memory though and remembers the crucial things about us farang and our dogs (diet, treatment plans, living conditions etc). Also one of few vets who stock the 3 in 1 vaccine....most only stock the 7 in 1 annual vaccine.

There is supposedly another vet that I have heard is reputable among Thais in the city on the same road as Tesco and 1 Bar but at the other end, but I haven't gone there yet. The vet on the way to Tat Ton waterfall just before the service station when leaving the city is utterly useless. He works there with his wife (also a useless vet). 

Both drugs do cause skin side effects for many dogs also. 

Mange is one of those things, depending what type of mange it is of course. Some dogs a simple diet change will cure it,  some dogs immune system finally kicks in and kicks it off, some dogs spot on treatment will help, some ivermection and of course the newer drugs.  

One of my dogs had demodectic mange in her first year of life, but it was quite tough to kill. I later found out that her siblings were even shaved and dipped and it still didn't kill it. We tried ivermectin and it did absolutely nothing. Shampooing did absolutely nothing. Doxy helped dry out the sores, but didn't do much else, and of course we tried all the natural immune strengthening diets, which also didn't help. 

In the end I got sick of the constant ivermection/spot on/doxy and researched what would help. I found Bravecto. Got my dad to send it over (before my province sold it) and it killed the mange within a month and it never returned. The vet I went to at the time looked at skin samples under the microscope and was amazed to the point he now stocks it purely as a mange treatment (not the best vet in the world as I found out as he was asking me about dosages of different drugs). 

NexGard, my dog has tried once (when our other vet was out of stock for Bravecto). The dog reacted enough for the vet to feel it necessarily to report the side effects to the company. Lack of energy being the main side effect. From memory, also slight twitching. I will never use NexGard again for that dog.

Try both (at different times of course), some dogs do excellent on Bravecto, some don't. Same with NexGard. Just watch the dog very closely. Both I would think are equally as effective treating mange, just depends on which one the dog can handle. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4394402/

3 minutes ago, meatboy said:

this one is for you willi.watching my favourite program bondi vet this morning this came up.most prolific in the summer heat is this gritter,PARALYSIS TICK,this one carries a potent toxin from the female tick,can be lethal in the summer heat.

as I have never heard from any vets mention this one,has it hit the shore's of Thailand.

Ixodes Holocyclusis, the most medically important tick in Australia. I think it is only in Australia though. Much further North from where I was so I never had any experience with it, or any ticks. But many people concerned about it on Facebook. 

14 hours ago, sappersrest said:

If the dog will keep it on I find a large towel soaked in water works well.

Yes, the vet once recommended a wet towel.

On the really hot day I ended up spraying the ground with water and chucking on the outdoor fan. I also set the hose to the mist setting and shot it up in the air. They were pretty content to let themselves be drenched as it was hitting them softly like rain would, rather than a hose. 

12 hours ago, meatboy said:

what we bought was a hatari upright cooler with remort control.you fill the tank and add the freezer blocks,it has 3 settings,and the area is controlled the same as air con.[swing] the tank takes 4.5 lts.water,what we do is put 3 bottles of water in the fridge overnight and add any thing you can freeze aswell,allthough you get 2 freezer blocks with the machine.[3,200bht.] home pro.

you need one to look after your big boy,and keep him safe,as we know you find out how precious they are when they are taken from you.

its 46 days since my beloved was taken from us,and I still grieve every day. 

meatboy

It wouldn't work outside though would it? Wonder if it would work in their cage, roughly 5mx4mx1.8m, lower half concrete upper half steel mesh fence. Shaded by mangoes on one side, bananas and a hut in front and shade cloth on other side. Just use it a few days a year to help out when it is extreme.

The Caucasian made the decision to live outside when she was about 9 months old. Before that slept inside every night, but one night she decided she wouldn't come in and hasn't since. Instincts ended up getting the better of her. One advantage of guardian breeds is they withstand extreme temperatures from both ends of the spectrum, so even though she is primarily built for harsh Soviet mountain regions, she seems to amazingly get by considering how much running/standing on 2 legs she does each day. One other thing I have found helps a lot is keeping them on the lean side. She still has some filling out to do, but right now I keep her between 47-50kg.

It is the Fila I worry about, he is one of those ball of muscle type dogs that just keeps going and going, which would be okay if he was smaller, but he is 50kg at 10 months already. A great worker, but I am hoping with age his instincts start to kick in (wait for things to get close enough, rather than chase). Currently, the Caucasian has got him doing patrols for her. If it wasn't so hot it would be kind of funny, as you can almost see the confusion on his face and movements of taught behaviour fighting instinctive behaviour. 

Does anyone have one of those misting fans? Do they work well? I think quite expensive here. 

I read somewhere than misting set ups are getting popular (especially in America) as they can drop the temperature by up to 20 degrees. So people are having them set up around outdoor dining areas. They act like evaporative coolers or something along those lines, pump out a fine mist and the energy that it takes to evaporate the mist takes out the heat in the air. 

It is one thing that slips our minds. We are told to worry about annual vaccinations for dogs that are useless, but we don't focus on blood types.

If nothing else, hopefully this issue has woken some dog owners up to get their dog typed...has woken me up anyway and next six monthly visit I will get them checked.  

7 minutes ago, meatboy said:

I wonder if some of these breeds that shouldn't be in this country are sceptable to certain illness.

In general, mixed or mongrel dogs are stronger/healthier than pure breeds. In saying that, some pure breeds have been developed to be resistant also. Fila Brasileiro, for example, is supposedly quite resistant to parasite diseases due to having to work in high disease regions. I will be finding that out over the next decade with mine but so far (just on 11 months old) no problems. And that is using only spot on, will go on Bravecto next month as he has finally started to slow down in growing. 

Many dogs here maybe have evolved with antibodies to help fight disease, who knows. But from what I see, with my Thai family who have taken in temple/street dogs etc, the dogs die from disease just as frequently as outside breeds if they do not become carriers. Preventative things like Bravecto and diet I believe are the most important things. Dog evolve pretty quickly and adapt very well to their new environments though. Humans would have never explored the Arctic or other harsh regions of the world if it wasn't for dogs adapting.

Maybe it is dogs that are a universal dog type are the only ones allowed to donate. I saw someone write on a Husky forum that only dogs with a universal blood type (DEA1.1) are used as donors (although it is a forum, so not credible). However, it would fit into the above UK blood bank stats and a lot of other information out there. 

If I was to have a guess this dog is probably DEA1.1 negative and negative donors are hard to get hold of even in developed countries. What was your Husky's blood type, may shed some light on how hard it was for you finding a match. 

Will type my dogs blood when they have their next blood test (if they have the kits), and hopefully both are positive or both are negative DEA1.1. The biggest issue would be the Fila sitting still for 15 minutes without killing all around him if he ever had to donate to save his best friend.   

1 hour ago, meatboy said:

the wife done some searching and found out there are now 13 DIFFERENT BLOOD GROUPS eg.DE1.1,DE1.2,DE3.DE1.4.so they say it is almost impossible to get a match.

don't forget we had 4husky's blood tested yet no match.it poses a very big risk to use any blood if not in the group then there is the negative and positive,to a certain group if the antigens are not good. ,they even found a DALMATION has produced 5 diff.blood groups.them were added to the old no of groups in 2007.so its so complicated how can you get a match.              the wife says to click on,VETINARYMEDICINE.DVA36.COM

Must be one scientist on the forum who can clarify it, but the information online doesn't come across as actual matching being a massive issue for finding blood, more people not taking there dogs to actually donate. That is why I said ask them to post what blood type their dog is. It will probably simplify everything and people will not only know if they can help when they find out their dog type, but will be able to understand about transfusions greater for the future (as I too don't quite fully understand them - will speak about it to the vet next time I go and ask to type my dogs so I don't have to potentially waste DEA1.1 negative blood).  

13 different types, yes, but I think only 8 are internationally recognised. I think newer technology has shown that other types are either too rare to count, or can be classified into another type. For example, DEA 1.2 and 1.3 are now included in DEA 1. Other types I think have so low risk of reactions that DEA1 negative can be donated (which is the gold blood of donation so to speak. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3998747/)

Even though there are so many types DEA1.1 is a universal type. The most important type so to speak (positive/negative). I think it is dogs that are DEA1.1 positive (33-45% of the dog population depending on country), are universal recipients. Dogs that are DEA1.1 negative are universal donors in the sense DEA1.1 positive and negative dog. can have that type donated to them. That is why dog test kits in UK pet blood banks only test for DEA1 positive and negative (https://www.petbloodbankuk.org/vet-professionals/transfusion-information-and-guidance/guides/blood-typing/)

The above pet blood bank state that approximately 70% of dogs are DEA1,1 positive, 30% negative so it is hard to find negative donors. 

The blood issue is one thing as not all blood is obviously compatible, but I think the biggest issue is finding large dogs, between 1-6 years of age, that are disease and medication free that would sit still without training. 

Something I will definitely discuss with my vet next visit though to learn about more. 

But knowing the dogs blood type would be interesting/helpful, if the vets say there is no match then there is no reason why they wouldn't know the blood type as it should have been shown to them. 

23 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

My dogs tend to mostly hang around where I am, so fans are the easiest solution on the patio/in the house.  Yesterday was sweltering, so we all enjoyed the aircon.

 

Unfortunately this is no help at all, if your dogs prefer to hang out in the garden.

 

Great idea  to put frozen bottles in their pool!  I've often thought about getting them a childrens' paddling pool, but suspect they wouldn't use it and so never bothered.  If this hot weather continues, I'll give it a try.

They have sweat glands in their paws and nose, but what is debated is how effective the glands actually are for cooling down. Many believe that they use the sweat glands in the feet for traction, and the ones in their nose to aide sniffing.

With my dogs, I do believe the pools help a lot as it is their natural go to method when hot from weather or exercise (work/walk/play). 41 degree weather, the dogs work hard, then a sit/stand in the pool for 30 seconds, and nap. Repeat all day. Why I believe it helps is that they don't feel the need to attempt to lay down as if to cool themselves, just put in their feet.

My dogs back home (Australia), also loved the children pools. 

12 minutes ago, johng said:

Shear them like sheep...then when they are cold put on some woolly jumpers 

Lol...unfortunately it has the opposite effect. Makes them hotter as no insulation/protection from the elements.

I think it is 41 degrees where we are today. What are people doing to keep their dogs cool? Any interesting/different methods people have found to work?

I have a couple of those child size pools they use to mix cement (one under the carport, which is their main choice of space to relax, and one in their cage). Also have a lot of left over 2 litre milk bottles, so I put frozen bottles in the pools.

I also will freeze chicken broth in old ice-cream containers and also use the ice-cream containers to make blocks of ice I put in their water bowls. On the excessively hot days, I keep watch and sometimes I will use an outdoor fan (would be a couple of days a year). 

The Fila loves the heat, will sun-bake, run all day in it so it is important he doesn't kill himself. The Caucasian, being built for cold climates, enjoys the kids pools but not much else and gets by on her own really.

Any other ideas would be much appreciated.

Probably better just finding out the actual blood type that is needed. Then those people who own breeds where the majority of the dogs are the blood type that is required/or universal could potentially help out. Or the people looking for blood can seek out such people. 

It is good if people are making the effort to get their dogs down to the vet, but probably a greater chance of finding the blood that is required if we put the luck on our side, rather than just asking for random dogs. 

3 hours ago, Arjen said:

Although it might sound strange, I am serious....

 

When the first transfusuion is no problem at all, is it possible to give blood from an other animal, or even human?

 

Arjen.

I don't think it can be done in the usual sense of what a transfusion is. But science is getting closer to albumin (blood serum protein) being able to be donated by humans to dogs. I think albumin joins together cells in the veins so water cannot leak out or something along those lines.

25 minutes ago, meatboy said:

with our boy 9 owners came forward and gave a blood sample which then was taken to the animal lab along with our boys sample,but not one was a match,if what you say,[ first trans.can be any type of blood] WHY did not one vet tell us this.yesterdays urgent message went out all round issan,yet 5 gave blood but as ours NO MATCH.

along with both vetinary uni's kohn kaen and chula never said any blood would do.kohn kaen did give us 4days to find the blood,but never said its an emergency any blood would do.what they did say the dog donor had to be over 20kilo's.

I just hope the dog in korat is able to get a match,but one problem is the lack of information from the vets.

with ours we didn't know wether it was because of his spleen which had to be removed,or the RBC count or because of a low platelet count.its with all vets SHUT YOUR MOUTH and do as I say.

my heart goes out to the dogs owner in korat and hope for a recovery.pray god.

meatboy a farang.

Size is important. Obviously a little dog cant give the blood to a big dog. The richness of the blood is also important. Parasite/medication free is important. Match is only important if it is the dogs second or more transfusion. 

Thai vets aren't exactly up to date with their knowledge. The World Vet Association has came to survey Thai vets on something as simple as vaccine schedules and found they were far behind world trends and had no research on the matter. So don't think they will know much about transfusions. Even with my incredibly basic knowledge on the right time to desex larger dogs, some of the vets in my city have asked if I am a vet as I am more up to date than them. 

I would be asking what blood type the dog is, what blood types the tested dogs are and then figuring it out (with the vet and research), if the type can be used or not. Maybe they are unaware that a type is universal. They shouldn't just say, no match, they should show the results. 

With your boy, a transfusion could have happened with any blood (parasite free) as it was his first. Would have given them a couple of weeks to find the real cause of the issues - as you really didn't want them taking out the spleen if it wasn't absolutely necessary. 

When Khon Kaen Hospital thought I had Rickettsia, they looked at my spleen and it was doubled in size (CT scan). They were looking into other diagnoses (cancer etc) and mentioned a possible spleen removal. Got hold of my doctor back home and he said don't let them near your spleen. With dogs especially, spleen removal can be a first resort, which is fine back home where no real diseases are as dogs do better without spleens than humans....not in Thailand though, the dog desperately needs its spleen with so many tick diseases around (especially with Babesia).

1 hour ago, meatboy said:

don't forget they have to get a MATCH FIRST.but we found 9 owners who were willing to help any way they could.

If emergency and the first transfusion can be any blood type, it may be beneficial as it buys a couple of weeks until a match is found. 

What blood type is the dog?

57 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Sorry to hack this topic a bit,

 

I own a Malinois, Very well trained, and when Thai see me working wth my dog they ask  "How Much?" and "Where buy?" They think that the things he can do,  are build in features. I really hope they will never buy one, because, with a bit training, you have a great dog. Without any training (like the most Thai will do) it will be a horrible creature in your area what will kill and damage everything it sees.

 

I am wondering if sedating is necessary to take blood? My Malinois had a deep cut in his front paw. I went to an animal hospital, and they wanted to sedate him for stiching. It was difficult but finally I could convince them that it was not neccessary, when I order him to lay down, he will lay down, and as long as I am close I think you can cut of his ears, and he will remain laying down (I will never try this!!) So I ordered him to lay down. Then the vet ordered 3 asistants to hold down my dog. He liked the attention. When the vet started stitching he even did not blinked his eye...

 

Arjen

 

 

 

Not necessary to sedate to take blood for a standard blood test. However, for an untrained dog to sit still for 20 minutes and have blood taken from its neck...probably necessary to sedate many Thai dogs. 

Takes me, my wife, 3 vet assistants to hold my dogs down whilst the vet extracts the blood. Obviously muzzled also. But that is more due to them wanting to protect, rather than actually being bothered about the blood test. 

9 hours ago, Arjen said:

A neighbour from me has three Husky's walking around.

Yes, I have been offered a few Huskies as people couldn't look after them anymore or they were killing too many chickens. There are so many around as they are fashionable here, just depends on if people are willing to sedate the dog for the 20 odd minutes taking the blood for a transfusion takes (as lets be honest, dogs almost need to be sedated to even be leashed in Thailand due to no training/pack status). 

8 hours ago, Arjen said:

Strange, why it is so difficult for Meatboy a match?

Is it really not possible to have the test if there is a match or not done on a complete different place? A neighbour from me has three Husky's walking around.

 

Arjen.

I wonder if the vets even know which blood type is the one that can be used universally. Maybe they are just seeking the actual individual blood type. Completely incompetent if that was the case, but it is Thailand after all.  

I don't know a whole lot about cross-matching re dog transfusions. But from what I have seen, a good majority (60% of dogs within the breed) of some breeds can be universal donors (could be wrong as haven't looked deeply into it). So breeds such as Greyhounds, Boxers, Irish Wolfhounds, German Shepherds, Dobermans, Labs and Pitbulls. There is quite a few of the last 4 breeds running around Thailand (also good size re Husky). I think the first transfusion is also free of any matching isn't it? 

As sad as it is, and obviously I would try my hardest, but I am realistic about the fact my dogs would struggle to find donors. Size issues, poor quality blood, people possibly not okay with their dogs having to be sedated to get the blood out, and the fact that not many dogs running around the place are free of disease/medication. Prevention from things like disease, trauma, accidents etc is just so important for dogs living in Thailand, as the reaction/treatment is not up to scratch unfortunately. 

*Edit:
According to the American Veterinary Medical Association, about 40 percent of the U.S. dog population has the universal blood type
 

Bravecto not only treats fleas and ticks, but as a positive side effect also treats mange. Vets in my city don't bother with spot ons and ivermectine anymore, just give Bravecto. Every dog is different though, some clear up with a simple spot on treatment, some with ivermectine and some with neither, so seems dogs are on a winner with the Bravecto. 

My pup had a dose of puppy mange when younger. Both advantage and ivermectine did absolutely nothing and I wasn't happy with the dosages so I researched other options. Bravecto came up, wasn't in my city yet so got my dad to send some over. Dog was clear within a month (skin samples  under microscope) to the vets amazement. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4394402/

The rest would need a vet to run tests. 

Washing...one dog hasn't had a wash for 18 months, the other is 10 months and never has had one. Vet will give a shampoo until the mange is under control, but I am not a fan of washing. A fish in the diet is all the shampoo the dog needs as the fatty acids heal sore, flaky, itchy skin.

Although the food ideas sound good in theory, and may even work in practice, is it really such a good idea to willingly get a dog close enough to you to feed or have the dog follow you in a country with a rabies outbreak? Isn't that how the person died in Surin, feeding dogs? I am sure they were very friendly for the food also (which is when rabies can be risky, accidentally licking open wounds, non-biting so not worrying about interaction). 

Collared doesn't mean vaccinated, especially if the owners allow them to roam. One of many reasons why I refuse to ride scooters here, already enough distractions.

Personally, I would just speak to the neighbours. Almost on every thread people advise against it, but rarely have actually ever tried it. Every time I have done it (re burning, music too loud etc), it is met with an apology and the issues have been resolved.