wildewillie89

The Mrs, and also her folks, like to have a lot of useless stuff laying around the house that makes it look a tad clattered, but the houses are cleaned everyday. Whereas back home, nowhere near as much stuff laying about the place, but by no means was the place cleaned as often.

We just added a storage space when we built the outdoor kitchen, so now inside is a win win.

Yes, no amount of vaccination will help the dog if it has rabies already. It is unknown if the dog has rabies or not, but if a un-vaccinated dog is exposed to a rabid animal it should either be put to sleep or quarantined for 6 months, Obviously it is unknown in this case if exposed to a rabid animal or not, so personally, I would vaccinate the animal before quarantining just to make sure it is vaccinated (unlikely if Thai farm dogs). 

Understandably, many people are on edge lately. A couple of months ago my two dogs killed quite a big stray cat that jumped into our yard. A couple weeks later the Caucasian was acting incredibly aggressive (more than usual) to everyone and everything except household members. Started to cough and breathe a bit heavier than usual. Bloods were all good. I was more thinking/worried about a Bartonella infection due to the trouble breathing and because it was a cat. The Fila a few days later was sneezing and all snotty for about a week. Both dogs cleared up 100% quite quickly, so probably a flu thing in the end.

Naturally, whether rationally or irrationally, the rabies thought crosses your mind here with any potential exposure and then symptoms a few weeks later (even if dog is vaccinated). It put me on enough of an edge to go and vaccinate my eldest child. Now, two dogs down the road have just died of rabies, so I don't regret having her go through the shots. Although it is painful knowing rabies is around, on the plus side at least some sort of herd immunity now exists due to 800 plus dogs being vaccinated within a 3km radius. 

Keep going through them at different speeds and find out the threshold. 

Camera fines are easy to get off if you have family/friends who are police, but as long as you receive the fine in the same province as they work. Outside of that province is more hassle than the fine is worth. 

Have they had any vaccination at all before?

Even if had at least their 2 puppy rabies shots, then find out the company the vaccines came from (ask vet), booster shot the dogs and quarantine them for 45 days. If a dog is vaccinated (even if it has missed years of shots), it is such a low risk to get rabies that the 45 days and booster is merely a formality to be 100% sure. If never vaccinated then vaccinate and quarantine them for 4-6 months. 

Either way vaccinate and quarantine them. 

Use Bravecto or NexGard. Numerous posters have had issues with spot ons not working. My in-laws Retriever was on them and ticks remained all over her. 

Also spot ons take 48 hours to kill ticks, where usually the chewables take 12 hours. Resulting in less chances of diseases being passed onto the dog (usually takes up to 24 hours for most diseases). 

If dog is treated sufficiently, and well fed/exercised (immune system is strong), then shouldn't have any worries. Like many parasites, ticks tend to seek out weaker animals. My dog lived with the in-laws dog for 6 months. Both were on different treatments and diets. In-laws dog infested and tested positive to ehrlichiosis. My dog has never had a tick or disease (even though living within the same walls as an infested dog). In-laws saw the difference so switched to Bravecto, 2 months overdue for next treatment yet the dog is still clear. 

6 hours ago, meatboy said:

I don't know if anyone else is helping,but one thing I do know is she has to work full time,she told the wife that she gets donations now and then,she told the wife she is worried that she has to retire in 3yrs.so where the money comes from when she does is worrying.so I think she is genuine then I am not the best in trusting anyone.i think its best to get in touch with the Tessa ban and find out if she has been in touch.

by the way what is the cost of vaccinateing over 250dogs.i am just a bit worried that a few vets in that area know who I am along with the wife,so that would more than double the cost.

I think Tessaban pays the companies 25 baht per vaccine. Some vets in my city do it for 60 baht per vaccine. If you went to Tessaban and told them you would like to fund the vaccination program of just the shelter and objectives were documented, they would probably be able to accept it. 

3 hours ago, meatboy said:

I have just asked the wife to contact her to find out the position,the wife has told me SHE the owner has to contact whoever is going to vaccinate the dogs if not already done,the wife thinks she is responsible.as we are providing food for them in honour of our boy passing away.if she hasn't done this we will have to re-think about helping her.its a harsh thing to do,but I am willing to help but unless she doesn't think our gratitude helps her by letting us know whats happening she wiil find out I will stop the funding.oh by the way she doesn't know a farang is involved. 

If the shelter is working off donations then it seems she is probably an owner, which would mean she has to find the donations to fund the vaccination of the animals also (and pay a vet to administer them). I think she is hoping for Tessaban to include the shelter in their budget, which is a risky way of running a shelter. If so, and the Mayor and Public Health Official of the area is happy to do that, the dogs should be vaccinated in the next couple months. 

Shelters are hard work, they require continuous and serious donations to work. If the dogs are not vaccinated, then there is also the chance all sorts of dog viruses and zootonic diseases are living there. I, personally, wouldn't be going too close to the place.

With any sort of non-profit type organisation, it is always best to find out where the donations go. If the owner (in this case), hides behind ignorance or doesn't divulge how the place is run, then no emotion from you should be felt by not donating anymore. It is the owner that would be doing the disservice to the dogs, not you. Investigate and see how you go with it.

Livestock department has limited amounts of vaccines that are only to be used in areas with proven rabies fatalities. Their role is to only vaccinate 3 kms around where a dog is found to have died of rabies. So the last 2 days 810 dogs were vaccinated 3 kms each direction of the dog that died in Sok Ta Lab. There couldn't have been any dog die within 3 kms of the shelter so the livestock department has no obligation to go there. 

All public dogs are vaccinated by Tessaban (should be done this May if no more delays), and all private dogs actually should be done by the individual, but Tessaban has helped out these last few years. 

If the shelter has an owner then that indicates it is privately owned. It is her responsibility to vaccinate the animals. Tessaban sometimes pity them so help them with vaccinations. 

It sucks, but it is what it is. 

Today the bordering village had 380 animals vaccinated.

Tessabans in Chaiyaphum should be receiving 'real' vaccines this coming May. So people should keep their eyes open as to where the administration of the vaccines will take place and tell their families to go and get their dogs vaccinated (if don't vaccinate at clinics). 

Annual vaccines are just silly (as they are not needed), but what is even more dangerous is the annual combination vaccination (7 in 1). Especially as Leptospirosis is included in it. It is well known the Leptospirosis vaccine has high risk for side effects even on its own, let alone added to all the others. Not to mention it doesn't even work. They make the combination vaccine as it has to be given annually so companies and vets can still keep money coming in. It is hard to find, but my vet stocks the 3 in 1 (core vaccines). After puppy hood, you really don't need to even vaccinate the dog (other than rabies) for the rest of its life, but if choose to can just do the 3 in 1 with rabies every 3 years. 

Vets everywhere are driven by greed. From memory, vaccines make up roughly 14% of a vets income according to Dr. Schultz (the guy whose research was used to finally change vaccine guidelines). He said annual vaccines were a recommendation that was made in 1978 with absolutely no scientific validation. The Western trend is slowly starting to move towards titer and not vaccinate. We never vaccinated our dogs (after puppy shots) back home, the biggest troubles we had were ACL (knee joints going), but desexing significantly increases the chances of that happening so no surprises. 

Thailand, I think it is a bit of three things. One, money. Two, not allowing or listening to outside experts. The World Small Animal Vet Association have already told them they should change rabies to 3 years. But, I think also a fear thing. Even many Western vets, I believe, would vaccinate annually if living in the same sort of environment (rabies outbreaks). Sometimes emotions take over logic due to the always 'what if'. I think that is more human nature though. For example, vets recommend the Lepto vaccine if live in an endemic area. Whereas the academic vets (who do the actual studying on the vaccines) don't use that vaccine in endemic areas as obviously they can take the emotional side out of it as they are so clued up on the matter. 

On a plus side, I found out today that the vaccine companies should be releasing 'real' vaccines for Tessabans to vaccinate dogs this May. The delay was due to vaccines being checked by the government. 

I would still vaccinate with the vets at the clinics, rather than vaccinate ourselves or get the local government to do it. Just to make sure the dates/company stickers are in the book. Looked into it lately, it obviously isn't a full proof system with all vets (will always get bad eggs), but a better option than the other two. One dog that has just been found to have died of rabies in Chaiyaphum was vaccinated by the owner's friend (rather than vet), and missed its second dose (didn't have the next puppy rabies shot). The vaccine was a real vaccine bought from a clinic (sticker from reputable company), however, just didn't get the full course (not sure of age first one was given). I think in America, rabies vaccines are considered invalid unless administered by a vet. Just get vet to do core vaccines, and make sure they are proper brands/not expired (annually test if near a lab that has titer testing - not many of us). Keep the vaccine labels the vets put in the book for evidence if required.

I would also still recommend seeing a vet if a pet is sick, as they have the means to give pretty instant basic test results (within 30 minutes). Although not full proof, SNAP is about 95% accurate, but of course if the dog is sick order additional testing (as the SNAP company says to do). But choose the vet wisely. It is like doctors here, took me a fair few doctors to finally find one I felt was equal to back home in my province (ended up with a pediatric cardiologist as my GP and has ended up a good friend due to shared interests).

It is good to form a bit of a relationship with the vet. Not a know it all type relationship, just one based on mutual respect. Every now and then I will take in papers showing Western trends, or what procedures I may or may not want done (e.g. gastropexy) to see how confident/what experience he has in doing them. Make the vet work hard for their money.

What this relationship does is form the basis of how the visits will go down in the future (as usually Thai remember the farang that comes in). It also gives continual extra information the vet will remember about the dog that may be forgotten during a stressful vet visit when the dog is sick (where they live, daily activities, diet, what medication they are on, potential exposure to disease etc). One of my puppies was quite sore and our vet told us the Thai textbooks say this is a tick disease, but I know your dogs and after an examination/blood test he came to the conclusion it was growing pains. 7 days of pain killers were prescribed and the dog has been fine since the first day pill it took. 

The most important thing this relationship does though is it puts the vet on their toes. They know you have a fair idea about what tests should be carried out and also what treatment is best depending on results. They should also go through blood tests step by step explaining what each reading means. Good vets will treat accurately to keep you, rather than use you if they know it will mean never getting business again . If they don't, then best not to see them again anyway.

Obviously many lack the technology and up to date research/trends as vets back home depending where we all live, but that is the same with every aspect of the country. We are handed a lot of things back home on a platter. In Thailand, you just have to make sure you are on the ball, pick your vets like you pick your doctors, do things based on the environment you live, make medical staff earn their money, and the dogs should remain relatively healthy. It is hard work but achievable, my puppy turns 2 this month - no tick diseases as of yet in a community of 430+ plus dogs roaming the streets infecting each other. And yes, if the dog seems pain free and happy enough, then let it be. However, be weary of this as some stages of tick diseases are symptom free before they move into chronic stages (why it is best to treat in early stages when the parasites aren't hiding from the antibiotics). 

*Yes, going to the vet has the chance to be dangerous (even back home it is the same), but not going is more dangerous as we do not have the technology to find out what particular parasite a dog may have or what sub-species of the same parasite the dog has (they are not all the same and do require different treatments). Treating at home based on symptoms without tests would be incredibly irresponsible and dangerous seeing as tick diseases are famous for mimicking symptoms for pretty much every disease out there. There are bad vets everywhere, just make sure you hold your vet accountable to get the best for your animals.

I drove past the Sok Ta Lab vaccination point today. In total, 430 dogs/cats (including 22 temple dogs) were administered imported vaccines. Tomorrow, the bordering village dogs/cats will also be vaccinated. I think last years survey of the village estimated about 410 animals, but obviously breeding occurs. Hopefully some sort of herd immunity was achieved today. 

Fortunately many vet clinics import their vaccines/use non-Thai companies. I investigated it a little today due to I also worrying about my own dogs vaccinations. Vets come under more scrutiny if a dog has been vaccinated, it is logged in the books and then the dog still gets rabies, so many use the non-Thai company vaccines for this reason.

Tessabans generally use Thai company vaccines for obvious budget reasons. This year the problem is supposedly fixed though, just no vaccines getting around the country.  

13 minutes ago, meatboy said:

the wife has a friend who works in one of the offices concerned and they have no vaccine.last week we gave 100kil'o of chicken to a compound here,but we had it sent.there where too many strays around outside.

It is a shame really. 

5 minutes ago, meatboy said:

that's a surprise WW dodgy vaccines.didnt know that goes on in Thailand.

Fantastic world we live in. It is why I prefer dogs to humans....although, it is becoming hard. Off to the vet I think to see if he has titer testing. 

I am on and off the forum now as I am on holidays from my main job (usually only use the forum when I sit at work). 

Got back on due to the rabies issue, my province has had reported cases of rabies which the forum has seemed to have covered in 4 of the areas. However, there are a couple more areas that I didn't see mentioned here, so thought I would inform people. 

Municipalities here unfortunately cant get their hands on vaccines (companies saying they have ran out). My wife put the question to the Vet Office today about this, they said companies were making fake vaccines, which is why there is a rabies spike, so this year there is a shortage due to more strict checking of vaccines. Pretty sad state of affairs really. I was in higher hope this year due to the training of extra staff to administer the vaccines so hopefully more dogs would be covered (getting somewhere towards herd immunity). But I guess money wins once again. 

Also, I think it was the last few days to a week, the village Muang Kao (Muang Chaiyaphum).also had a dog die of rabies. Not sure if reported on ThaiVisa or not. 

Sok Ta Lab tomorrow will have their day where the vet office comes to vaccinate the dogs. The Tessabans in Chaiyaphum cant get hold of any vaccines to do it themselves. So when their is a confirmed case, vaccines come from the Vet Ministry it seems, not directly from the companies (only way Tessaban can get them). I was working at a different Tessaban today (from where I live) and the Mayor was telling me how he cant get any vaccines also. 

The question was put to the vet office this morning (when investigating Sok Ta Lab), they said the rabies spiked last year due to fake vaccines from companies, so this year there is shortages of vaccines due to strict measures to make sure they are proper vaccines.

 

Puppy farm issue. Also same sort of issues as backyard breeders. Viruses hanging about killing off the puppies due to sellers lying about them being vaccinated/wormed. Not getting the dog you think. One of my cousins thought he bought a Labrador, the dog never grew more than a foot high. Selling puppies too young so therefore the puppy not getting its first lessons of bite inhibition from its mother. A lot of inbreeding. Other obvious issues like hips, elbows, genetic heart diseases, puppy mange etc. All sorts of breeds mixed so temperament of dog is any ones guess. 

I was at a night market once looking for a leash. The owner asked to see a photo of our dog and asked to pay us to breed with it. She didn't even have a male of the same breed so clearly was just going for looks/size factor. 

SNAP tests only test for Lyme, Ehrlichia/Anaplasma in terms of tick diseases don't they? Also the SNAP test company does say additional testing is recommended. A good vet should also say this.

Other things like Babesia, Hepatozoon require additional testing - PCR. 

In general, PCR is probably the best way to go about things if the dog is displaying symptoms/bloods aren't right. 

Standard bloods and SNAP test on relatively healthy animals (annual testing) I have found to be sufficient. 

The best thing people can do is put their dogs on Bravecto/Nexgard and avoid a lot of these issues in the first place. Yes, they are hardcore drugs, but from what I have seen (both on this forum and relatives dogs), many spot ons don't seem to cut it here in Thailand. 

Just a scare campaign. I think even annual shots are about 14% of a vets income, so this rabies situation is a great way to make a buck. It is why it took 20 years for America to change rabies to every 3 years instead of annual even though the evidence was there. 

Obviously new thinking is discussing the detrimental effects of annual shots on dogs. We are killing our dogs as it is giving them combination shots annually, let's just kill them some more slowly by increasing that and giving them 6 monthly shots. 

My Thai vet said annual shots. I told him to go and research it just for my amusement (knowing WSAVA had already found Thailand had zero research on small animal vaccinology). To his credit, he came back after researching it and said he is 100% happy to vaccinate my dogs 3 yearly. 

*On a side note. One dog near us was found to have rabies (autopsy). The local officials have been trying to vaccinate the public dogs for a while now but the companies have ran out of vaccines. Bit sad that this vet is not only harming the dogs, but also wasting vaccines that could be going to areas that need them just to make some money. 

7 minutes ago, TerryLH said:

How often does the government in San Diego say they need vaccinating?

I think all of America has now changed to 3 years. 

23 hours ago, Oxx said:

 

Perhaps you'd care to provide a few links to some peer reviewed articles in serious scientific journals that support your rather unusual view?

 

Rabies is an exceptionally important disease because it is one of a few diseases that can be passed from dog to humans, and is almost invariably fatal.  It's important that humans are protected against the risk of rabies from dogs.  Does giving dogs shots every 7 years provide the same level of protection to humans as giving the dogs the shots every year?

 Schultz, Ronald D, Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and What We Don’t Know, Proceedings – Canine Infectious Diseases: From Clinics to Molecular Pathogenesis, Ithaca, NY, 1999, 22. 

Distemper- 7 years by challenge/15 years by serology
Parvovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology
Adenovirus – 7 years by challenge/ 9 years by serology
Canine rabies – 3 years by challenge/ 7 years by serology

Dr. Schulz is still doing a lot of study to try and extend the law in the States re rabies due to the harmful effects of useless re-vaccination. It was his research that changed many places from 1 to 3 years to begin with. His research is also mentioned in the WSAVA vaccine guidelines (WHO for animals if you like). The one year booster vaccines was a recommendation made in 1978 with absolutely no scientific validation (as obviously testing vaccines on animals over long periods of time is an expensive and difficult study to wait for).

On a side note, even though the immune response will still be effective at 7 years, Dr. Schultz still continues to vaccinate his own dogs every 3 years due to his local laws. He says that the antibody levels block the booster just like maternal antibodies do in young pups for some vaccines, but it is the law. The other core vaccines he titers the puppy to find the best time to vaccine and never vaccinates again (obviously does annual titer testing).

One more case today. Sok Ta Lab village (Muang Chaiyaphum). Investigation team heading there tomorrow morning at 7am so will probably be in the news tomorrow.

1 hour ago, The manic said:

 "our Buddhist artifact thing in the front of our house "..Seriously?  You live here and don't know what it is called? Spirit house? Shrine?  Statue? What do you call that white wet grainy stuff people eat here? 

I really couldn't care less what it is called. The fact you understood and used similar words that could fit into the word I used anyway shows it was a bit of a pointless quote. Not to mention, irrelevant. 

The country is lottery mad. You could be in a middle of what is meant to be an 'important' meeting and the meeting will break to discuss the lottery. Many Thai will even plan their lives and buy expensive things like cars on the belief they will actually receive lottery money like they do a paycheck. 

Father-in-law doesn't drink or smoke, but does spend 8,000 baht a month on the lottery. He reckons he has a system, I obviously think it is complete rubbish but he does seem to win every third time or so. The wife used to buy the odd ticket, but does not play it anymore. Mother-in-law also refuses to play. 

The woman who blessed our Buddhist artifact thing in the front of our house suggested numbers to him, he didn't win so said he would never trust things like that again. But yes, people go off silly things like dreams, car license plates, house numbers etc, and then call all their friends to choose these numbers.

I guess it either gives people something to do/talk about, and others a lot of hope their lives will improve...also the gambling aspect for many.