Misty

8 hours ago, Thailand J said:

There is no mention of pension benefits such as IRA distributions brought into Thailand in RD 743 section 5, so I ask BOI.

The answer is all income from oversea is exempted when transferred into Thailand.

Thanks J, it is good to know.  The answers I've received from BoI are also consistent with what you are reporting. 

I'm about to switch my LTR visa to the LTR HSP version to save on current year Thai income tax. LTR HSP doesn't offer this exemption, but I don't need it now.  At some point in the future, though, it'll make sense to go back to one of the other LTR versions that exempt foreign source income remitted to Thailand.

3 hours ago, hondoelsinore said:

 

Viewers please note:  AMCHAM Thailand has an excellent tax committee.  Years ago this guy gave a couple of presentations for AMCHAM.  Not only is he no longer an AMCHAM member, but he is also not asked to speak there.

42 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

To align that to Thailand, that would that be like Thailand taxing all Citizens & Permanent Resident Holders on their World wide income.

 

And if I've understood you correctly, somebody who went to work in the US for 1 year on a H1B Visa would be taxed on their world wide income during that year, but presumably once  they left the Job/US & were no longer Tax Resident, the US wouldn't tax any income not arising in the US.

The rules on who is a US tax resident are a bit complicated.  But I think that it would be correct to say once someone is no longer a tax resident, the US wouldn't tax income not arising in the US.  It may tax some types of investment income in the US as well as distributions from deferred income accounts such as traditional 401(k)s, IRAs, and Social Security. 

Here's a link to definitions for US tax residency: https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/residency-starting-and-ending-dates

The Thai definition is so much simpler.

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

 

Perhaps somebody could explain how US Tax works for non-US Citizens living/Tax Resident in the US i.e. does the US Tax them on all of their world wide income or only Income earned in/remitted to the US? 

 

I can see Thailand introducing a US Style Worldwide Income Tax on Thai Citizens (though they lack the "Clout" of the US when it comes to getting other countries/banks to report information to them) but I can't see them introducing this for Non-Thai Citizens even if they are Tax Resident.

 

Yes, the US does tax any tax resident on their world wide income - citizens, green card holders (permanent residents) and holders of other types of visas.  Green card holders outside of the US are also taxed on world wide income.

7 hours ago, Thailand J said:

On the tax form in the section pertaining to rental income,  ทรัพย์สิน has to mean real estate.

I still believe on RD 743 it includes all investments. We'll see.

 

 

It's strange that RD 743 Section 5 mentioned only 3 out of 4 types of LTR visa holders.

 

https://www.apthai.com/th/blog/know-how/knowhow-what-is-asset

 

 

 

 

Yes, it's important to note that the LTR Highly Skilled Professional visa is not included in the RD 743 exemption.  LTR HSP visa holders must be employed by a Thai company, and receive a different tax break: a flat 17% tax on their Thai salaries.  That alone can be a very significant tax break at higher income levels.  At those higher income levels, LTR HSP should have less reason to bring foreign sourced income into Thailand.  So perhaps it was reasoned that this is tax break enough for LTR HSP.

2 hours ago, stat said:

Abother update from the LTR thread:

 

@Misty

..OK another update from the visa guy who talked with the BOI today the Pension visa is only exempt for overseas income taht does not come into Thailand..

 

For now - who knows what will happen next year...!

I did not write this, you are mistaken

3 hours ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

This situation begs the question as to why Thailand insists on inventing the wheel all over again... is it pride or ignorance that blinds them to other tried and true systems that are up and running with all the bugs already dealt with. Asking for a friend.

It looks like the original Thai tax code in fact may have been based on an existing system.  For example, the UK taxes inward remittances for non-domiciled tax residents ("non-doms").  https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/non-domiciled-residents

The difference is that UK non-doms I know avoid this tax by living on their income and remitting as little foreign income as possible. To make this work, they have to scrupulously keep their foreign accounts separate : those that remit income, and those that never do.  High level executive non-doms usually get very expensive tax advice before they accept positions in the UK. They prepare for this tax in advance by opening and maintaining "clean" (nonmixed) accounts.

So Thailand may not be trying to invent the wheel.  Thailand (and arguably Malaysia) are potentially using similar tax code, but the situation in country is very different. Unlike highly paid UK non-doms, many foreign tax residents in Thailand remit foreign income regularly and have not segregated their accounts. Thailand switching horses mid-stream could be messy.

On 11/1/2023 at 11:15 AM, Flyguy330 said:

Yes Misty, the way I'd do it is to spend 179 days in Thailand (if that's the preferred main base) then do 90 days (or as much extra as desired) in Malaysia, that gives you Malaysian Tax residencey.

Then you can use the other 90 (or less) days to travel the region, or visit home. Or just stay put in Malaysia the remainder of the tax year.

Rinse and repeat.

Maybe not everyones cup of tea, but if the tax savings are significant I'd be doing it.

It's good to have options.

 

By the way - these 'days in country' don't have to be consecutive, or in blocks. So you could just hop back and forth every couple of months if preferred. Just need to keep close tabs on the dates. You can then remit all you like to TH tax free. Bring up to 10K USD cash into Malaysia every trip, tax free.

Okay, I understand what you mean and why you'd need to have a tax residency somewhere to not be subject to your home country's tax. As a US citizen, I wouldn't get a benefit from gaining a tax residency in Malaysia and so didn't initially understand.

14 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I must admit that I didn't know about the updated Q&A Statement https://thelegal.co.th/2023/10/18/qa-statement-issued-by-revenue-department-clarifying-taxation-applied-on-foreign-sourced-income/

 

This added very little information except for the point about income earned in a year when the person was Non-Tax Resident would not be liable for tax whenever it was brought into the country.  This is really good news for me as I plan on selling my house next year & taking the 25% Tax Free lump sum from my Pension in 2026, so as long as I stay no more than 180 days in Thailand during those years, I'm free to bring the proceeds in tax free at any point in the future. 

 

Thanks for posting the link above. At the bottom of the text it says the new criteria "will become enforced on 1 July 2024."  Is that a change or a typo?  I thought the effective date was 1 Jan 2024.

3 hours ago, Flyguy330 said:

Just for info - in case anyone is considering a move to Malaysia in order to gain Tax Residency there to avoid tax residency in Thailand.

You only have to spend 180 days in Malaysia in your first year. After that you can maintain tax residency by only spending 90 days there in a year.

This might be of value to folks who want to lose their Thai tax residency, but need to have a 'Tax Residence' somewhere nearby, and don't really want to move full time to Malaysia.

Except that you can have more than one tax residency at the same time.  Unfortunately gaining Malaysian tax residency doesn't mean you automatically lose Thai tax residency.

Article doesn't mention the Bt10k digital wallet initiative being part of the debt solution. I had thought that Bt10k was central bank digital currency (CBDC).  But our staff seem to think that the digital wallet plan is not CBDC but rather courtesy of a private currency owned or controlled by the PM and/or Thaksin, sort of like the scrapped Libra/Meta plan.  Anyone else hearing similar?

9 hours ago, Tequila Sunrise said:

Thanks.

 

I will ask my HR whether they filed a tax return for me covering the 2022 tax year. They pay me net of taxes each month so it seems they somehow know how much tax I need to pay, this is odd as some of my salary is variable (e.g., annual bonus) so not sure how they know or whether they do adjustments.

 

Thanks for the advice on going to a big-4 firm. Another member also recommended a smaller firm that I assume he personally vouches for. Trust me, all recommendations are gratefully received and I will follow up on these. I do appreciate the help.

 

I have joined the gym, but find most people are walking around with their headphones on not being sociable. Anyway, this is something I can work on. What I meant by friends is someone who has been in Thailand years and has made all the newbie mistakes and can share what works and what doesn't work.  It's difficult when working as my free time is extremely limited.

 

 

Yes, your HR department should be able to clear this up immediately.  At your compensation level, it sounds like you're most likely working for a major employer. It doesn't sound like you're working for a small school or other institution that wouldn't automatically file income taxes for its foreign staff. 

Most likely your employer filed online, in which case you wouldnn't sign anything.  I know many expats of large employers where this is the case. Employers often do not automatically give tax filing documentation, unless it's requested.  Many expat employees don't know about the Thai personal income tax filing process.  Americans tend to be the exception, as they need Thai documentation to file their US taxes.

Congratulations on getting your LTR HSP, and thanks for the heads up at the time required at the BoI.  I'm returning to Thailand soon and will be switching over my existing LTR to a new LTR HSP.  Hopefully the process will go as smoothly!  The BoI staff said I can keep my existing 5 year digital work permit, so hopefully I can skip the step of getting a new one.

19 hours ago, Tequila Sunrise said:

Thanks. Would you be able to give me a pointer in the right direction to any said "well connected" Thai accountant?

 

I am struggling in Thailand, been here 1 year and haven't made a single friend or connection. Been deceitfully scammed more than once and cannot speak the lingo so basically get ripped off every single day. The work here is much harder than I thought it would be, very long hours and I am the only foreigner in a team of 300 people. Most people in my company can speak great English but they choose not to and I'm starting to feel very alone and lost. My day is basically 8am-8pm work, grab some dinner and sleep. Repeat. Weekends I'm so tired I just stay around the condo and rest. I don't want to give up as I see many expats here have a great life.

 

I have been reading posts on this forum and people seem nice, informative and having a decent sense of humor. Hence I signed up for some friendly support.

 

My current annual income tax liability is millions of THB. I don't want to state the number as it's not polite but let's say more than 4 million and less than 6 million.

 

Congratulations on getting your LTR visa. I'm switching over to the LTR HSP visa and have talked to my company's accountant regarding the difference in Thai tax filing going forward. To date I've filed PND90/91 each year. My accountant has explained in the future I'll use PND95 for the 17% tax rate.

Does your company currently file your Thai taxes?  The reason I ask is that the PND90/91 is a fairly simple form (at least as compared to my US taxes) and my Thai accountant fills it out and files it each year on my behalf. Going forward, PND95 should be similarly streamlined and easily handled by my accountant. I've also worked with KPMG for corporate tax issues and have no doubt they can handle filing PND95 as well.

3 hours ago, SHA 2 BKK said:

Agree.  Don’t know where you’re based mate but get to the BOI One Stop Service Centre at Chamchuri Square. I had my Pensioner LTR in two weeks but my wife daughter got “frozen” somehow in the system.  It was Christmas/New Year and we were overseas.   When we got back I visited the Centre and things were done in 72 hours. 
 

2.  Yes I think your LTR is cancelled unless you find a new Employer who you qualify with - Misty will know.  
 

3.   No you can’t claim any privileges until you have your LTR. I’d get a Thai accountant to maximize allowances etc.  

 

Seriously cobber I’d go to Chamchuri Square with all your paperwork. 

I also understand that an LTR HSP is tied to your job.  LTR HSP would be cancelled if you left the job.  You'd need a new type of visa. 

2 hours ago, ajs73 said:

Putin won't accept the invite. He's on a "most wanted list", and for that matter it would be a security nightmare for the GRU..  Foreign policy wise it's like lighting a stick of dynamite and seeing how long one can hold it before it blows up in your face. imo this is a dangerous move on Thailand's part. 

Presumably Putin remembers what happened with Victor Bout.

1 hour ago, redwood1 said:

All very good points......The Srettha road show has been non-stop since he took office.......At this rate he will be running out of new countries to have photo-ops with........lol...........I not quite sure how this smiling lackey got to rich in the first place? 

The Srettha road show comes to AMCHAM's AGM meeting on 25 Oct.  I hope there will be plenty of time for member Q&A to include the AMCHAM Tax committee.  Unfortunately I'm travelling and won't be able to go.

https://connect.amchamthailand.com/events/details/agm-luncheon-with-honored-guest-h-e-prime-minister-srettha-thavisin-2469?calendarMonth=2023-10-01

On 10/7/2023 at 10:52 PM, SHA 2 BKK said:

Misty you know more than all than all of us combined!  Changing LTR midstream - champion in my books.  Yes 17% on Thai sourced income.  But for we “poor” pensioners no tax reduction for income made in Thailand but zero tax on income remitted from the previous year?  
 

I reckon I close to the mark Krap????

hi Sha2Bkk - sorry for slow response. Am travelling and just saw your post. Yes, there's a tradeoff between the LTR HSP visa and the other LTR visas in that with the HSP you get a break on taxes for local income, but unlike the other LTRs you don't get any breaks for foreign source income.

The HSP suits my current situation well.  But at some point in the future if I no longer have local source income I'd consider reapplying for one of the other LTR visas.  Will have to see how this new interpretation of the RD directive plays out.  I've had no shortage of locally sourced/ Thai taxed income from decades of working here. Will be interested to see how the new interpretation would apply, should I decide to repatriate some of it.

On 10/1/2023 at 12:11 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

As I indicated to another this was in an email from a legal firm in Isaan to all of its clients (I used them mnay years ago). As with all their legal advice/direction it is private and not for general public etc etc bla bla.

As I replied to another member - it was not one of the big legal/tax firms in Bangkok.

 

Thanks for the clarification, and understood.  Just trying to separate what has been publicly announced from inside information, rumor & speculation.

On 10/1/2023 at 10:05 AM, ballpoint said:

In part, yes.  I was able to produce income tax receipts for the years I worked here (even though it's supposedly one big Revenue Department, even the different Bangkok divisions don't seem to know what the others are doing, let alone different provinces), and that helped the audit, by accounting for the original money in my offshore account.  But the majority of what I earned has been invested in other means, and no longer exists in cash, so I doubt they would accept tax receipts from five or more years ago for much longer.

Thanks very much for this, it's very helpful.

59 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

I live off of totally legal overseas tax free investments, and transfer a fair amount here every year.  I get around the current laws by transferring my money to an offshore holding account prior to the end of the year, then remitting it to Thailand at the start of the next year.  I am thus able to show that the money was in the holding account on January 1st, and no further money was deposited into that account prior to my Thailand remittance.  They don't care what happens to the holding account after the last transfer to Thailand that year, but every single cent deposited into that account between January 1st and the date of the remittance (or last remittance if multiple ones are done) that year must be accounted for.  I previously posted this on another topic, but I was selected for audit a few years ago.  (I only found out about this when a 90 day report was rejected because the Revenue Department had flagged my passport, and I had to go to the local immigration office where they informed me of this, and then had to call the local Revenue Department office to arrange the audit).  The method I have described satisfied the auditors, but my understanding of the new directive is that it will no longer do so - as long as you are a tax resident here, every deposit made after January 1st 2024 to the overseas account you remit your money from will need to be accounted for, no matter what year it is made.

 

When I worked here (I'm now retired), the company I worked for used a multinational tax accountancy firm to handle its expat taxes.  I contacted them regarding this, as I would be liable for the maximum 35% rate if I carry on the same way as now, and their advice is:

 

Top up the overseas holding account and transfer next year's money before the end of this year.  IF this scheme goes ahead, (which they doubt it will), my tax filing for 2024 (in early 2025), will show no income at all that year - no tax. 

Only spend 179, or fewer, days in Thailand in 2025.  Transfer enough money for the half of that year I'll be here, and for all of 2026, from any source.  No need to file a tax return for 2025 (in early 2026), as I won't be a tax resident that year. 

My tax return for 2026, filed early 2027 will again show no income at all that year - no tax.

Rinse and repeat.

 

Learnings from this are:

The Revenue Department can, and do, link your tax situation to your immigration status here - until I had the audit done I would not have been able to leave the country.

They don't care if you have a TIN or not.  I obviously do, as I worked here for some years, but those who spend over 180 days a year here (not necessarily consecutive) and say the new directive (again, I stress, IF it goes ahead), doesn't affect them because they don't have a TIN, might just as well argue that they don't have to follow the road laws because they don't have a driver's licence.

The accountant pointed out that it is compulsory in most, if not all, Western countries to file a tax return if you are a tax resident - I even have to file one in Australia because I have a bank account and some non taxable Australian property there, even though I'm not a tax resident, and should this scheme go ahead they'd expect Thailand to issue the same demand, so be prepared to start doing one.

 

Thanks for the excellent post and suggestions from your tax adviser.  Since you had worked for a multinational previously, does the tax adviser think that you also produce PND90/91s establishing that you have paid Thai tax and are simply remitting that principle at this time?

Just now, freeworld said:

Did you see this part?

 

The Thai Revenue Department is still working out the details of the new rules, so it is not yet clear what additional paperwork or translations will be required

Yes, I'm interested in the link to the new rules that state this:

Quote: "The new rules state that if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand per year, you will be required to declare all of your foreign income, regardless of when it was earned or whether it was remitted to Thailand.

Where and how was this stated?

9 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I just got another 'nightmare' scenario just sent to me by a legal/tax expert:

Quote: "The new rules state that if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand per year, you will be required to declare all of your foreign income, regardless of when it was earned or whether it was remitted to Thailand. This is a significant change from the previous rules, which only required you to declare foreign income that was remitted to Thailand. The Thai Revenue Department is still working out the details of the new rules, so it is not yet clear what additional paperwork or translations will be required. However, it is important to be aware of the new rules and to start planning for how you will comply with them."

Please note that this is advice and may not be pertinent or correct or apply to everyone. 

But if I/we are now legally required to report/declare all of my 'foreign income' to the Thai RD (meaning all my transfers into my Thai bank account) this is going to be a nightmare. 

 

 

Interesting. Could you post a link to the new rules stating this please?