Misty

5 hours ago, Lost Nomad said:

Questions for the group:

1. If I choose to pay THB 50K at the BOI do I need to do this within 60 days of 4-24-24?
2. Will they still accept cash? I don't have a Thai bank account yet.
3. If I instead choose to pay for the e-visa in the US do I still need to arrive in Thailand within 60 days?

It's cheaper to pay in BKK, but the e-visa (USD 1600) might be worth the extra expense if it allows me to arrive later in 2023.

1. Yes, I think you're supposed to make an appointment at the BOI within 60 days of receiving the approval letter.  You may be able to get this extended if you request it.

2. As of Dec 2023 they were still accepting cash for the LTR visa itself. If you get a digital work permit, however, it's a different cashier and they would only accept credit card or phone app bank transfer.

3. If you choose the e-visa in the US, you'll get a pdf of the visa and there's no 60 day limit for entry.

Just a note on e-visas:  if you later want to switch to another type of visa these can be problematic.  The LTR e-visa is good for 10 years (rather than the standard 90 days for most visa types). So you'd have to get the e-visa cancelled by the Thai embassy or consulate that issued it.  It can be done, but the process is complicated and long.  I had an LTR e-visa initially, but when I became eligible for an LTR visa with a lower income tax rate, it was financially worthwhile to switch.  Eventually I was able to do so, but had I not gone the LTR e-visa route initially and instead gotten my LTR visa issues in Bangkok, the LTR unit in Bangkok could have handled cancelling the old visa, and the  switch would have been much easier.

On 4/23/2024 at 9:50 AM, Crossy said:

 

I don't even get an OTP, just an "error try later".

 

It may just be flooded.

 

If not sorted by tomorrow I'm going to our "local" (20km drive) UOB branch with my "angry farang" head on!

 

EDIT They evidently have my phone number as I get notifications of transactions on my card.

 

Hope the local UOB branch can help.  Phone calls (when I can get through) just result in being told that someone will call me back in 15 min.  So far no one has called, and I conclude they are overwhelmed.  No time to go to a branch today, but will do so tomorrow if this remains unresolved.

It's good you're getting notifications of transactions, so at least you can see if there's card misuse.  I'm not getting those types of messages, although one UOB person was able to to confirm my phone number.

Hopefully the risks are low, but if data was compromised this period would be ideal for fraudsters.

13 hours ago, MicroB said:

The most recent data is to 2022:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/leisureandtourism/datasets/ukresidentsvisitsabroad

 

If you consider Britons traveling to APAC as a market (ie. the choice isn't between Thailand and Benidorm this year), then before the pandemic, about 8-9% of Britons going on holiday/visiting Asia were picking Thailand. In 2021, that dipped to 3%, and it looks like India benefited from that (though India travel will be a mix of holidays, a lot of family visits and business reconnections) and in 2022, it went back up to 8%. If I strip out India and Pakistan, then in 2022, Thailand attracted 18% of British visitors to APAC, compared to 13-15% prepandemic. Non-HK China has collapsed; 16% before pandemic and 3% in 2022; 14% in 2021. Other Asia (Cambodia, Indonesia, Vietnam etc) went from 34% to 48-51%, and that seems to be at the expense of China, and, to a lesser degree, Japan and Hong Kong.

 

Countries in this selection are

 

Hong Kong (China)

Other China

India

Japan

Pakistan

Sri Lanka

Thailand

Other Asia

Australia

New Zealand

 

 

But if I consider a wider range of destinations, then a slight different story. Comparing % share in 2022 to 2019, only the following countries have increased their share. The dominating feature, except for Brazil, is the Package Holiday. Destinations more associated with more independant travel, which is basically Asia, have lost out. I suspect there is a combination of cost; the destinations closer to the UK will be cheaper, but also, post COVID, security, ie having the support of a Tui, Virgin etc to not strand you at an airport etc.. Its more complex that that, because you also have to get into spend, nights stayed etc, which is all in that data source.

 

One take away is that Thailand has to work hard to get the Tour Operators to fill up flights, charters. Something that might be distorting is hotel vacancies; has Thailand become a place where there are more people living out of a Hotel room?

 

The biggest losers, in terms of the holiday share, are USA, Cyprus, France, Ireland, China, Japan, and Other Asia (Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia etc) Thailand is down 0.2%, but Sri Lanka, which has more package tours, is down 0.1%. Interestingly, USA is down 0.8%, Canada is down 0.12%. I put that down to Florida (Disney) being too expensive. The £:$ during that period wasn't too bad.

 

Greece

Portugal

Spain

Turkey

Egypt

Morocco

Barbados

Jamaica

Other Caribbean

Brazil

Mexico

Fly/cruise (stay onboard)

Interesting to see the differences between the 2022 data of actual travel, and a 2024 poll that @BurmaBill posted in this thread previously. Florida could be too expensive, but at least in the poll NYC made it into the top 10 travel planned destinations:  https://business.yougov.com/content/48404-what-are-britons-top-travel-destinations-for-2024

19 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 

2023 -2024. Interestingly, the UK itself is the most popular (domestic tourism) Thailand does not get a mention😄

Top destinations for UK travellers

"Of the destinations considered, which are you most likely to visit?" (UK adults)

Table with 3 columns and 10 rows.

Rank	Destination	Score
1	UK	17%
2	Spain	15%   15%
3	Greece	8%   8%
4	Italy	8%   8%
5	France	7%   7%
6	Portugal	7%   7%
7	USA	6%   6%
8	Ireland	5%   5%
9	Germany	4%   4%
10	New York(USA)	3% 3%

 

December 11, 2023-January 9, 2024

 

 

https://business.yougov.com/content/48404-what-are-britons-top-travel-destinations-for-2024

 

Thanks for the interesting link.  I would have guessed at Spain and Portugal, and from UK friends also domestic UK.  If you add New York + USA the two together are 9% so just above Greece.

4 hours ago, MRtommyR said:

Any Citi credit card holders able to successfully register for the UOB app since the migration yesterday? I complete my passport number and date of birth and successfully receive an OTP, but the next screen asks to confirm my credit card number and then rejects it. Same issue when trying to connect with them on LINE

You're a step ahead of me. I had a CC credit card and have tried to register for a UOB online account a couple of times since last night.  Not receiving the OTP. The system appears to have my correct information and phone number,

Separately, now also not receiving OTPs from payment systems that used to be run by Citi and now say UOB.  Have called UOB, and they are looking into the issues.  Long phone wait times, they may be a bit overwhelmed.

23 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Not telling you

So you have no idea

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Whether this decline represents a temporary dip or a long-term change in British travel preferences remains to be seen.

So where are British going instead?

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

No it is much lower than that, about 2 Million.

Yes, I agree it is lower - probably not enough coffee this morning.  rechecked and it looks like THB 2.2m in income would result in tax of THB377k or an effective rate of c.17%

14 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

I like that 17% figure, without any "schadenfreude". IMHO a fair income tax system would be one where where tax would kick in, at a lower rate of 3% to 5% of total income and no one would pay more than 15% to 20%. I think  I'd be ok I think if they taxed my foreign income at 17%.

For foreign remittances to be taxed at an effective rate above 17%, based on the current progressive tax schedule and using standard deductions and without an LTR visa, I figure you'd need to bring in about Bt8.5m each year (c.$236k) - without any foreign tax credits to offset it.  Of course, a moot point if you have one of the LTR visas (except LTR HSP).

16 hours ago, Yumthai said:

 

I mean discriminatory in term of tax.

You have to show enough money to qualify and pay no tax. To me, it's a huge benefit and significantly unfair.

 

But good for anyone who qualifies and wants to live legally tax-free in Thailand. The LTR visa route is the go-to as all perks exceed all the other kind of visa at less average cost.

 

You may misunderstand the LTR visa's tax benefits.  I currently have the LTR HSP visa but am not "legally tax-free." I will pay a substantial amount of Thai income tax on my salary, albeit at a flat rate of 17%. Previously on a different LTR visa at progressive rates I paid up to the top 35% marginal rate, or effectively a total of c30% including RMF deductions.  

10 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

BOI/LTR could be good for you

Definitely suggest checking out the WP LTR visa. It's a 10 year visa and there are many advantages if you qualify, including up to 4 related visas for spouse and children.

13 hours ago, Pib said:

And even when that someone "did" have a tax return to submit but it showed less than the required income requirement because some of his income is "non-reportable/non-taxable" then that is when the other income documents come into play....actually become the primary documents to prove the required income and the tax return is just a secondary document.   An example would be for a U.S. military veteran drawing a "Veteran's Administration (VA)" pension/benefit which could be tens of thousands of dollars per year---not one penny of that is taxable/reportable on a tax return per U.S. tax law....and the VA does not even provide an annual tax document because by law the benefit is not taxable/reportable.    

Another example is a US taxpayer with rental income that isn't taxable because of deductible expenses such as depreciation, etc. The rental income isn't included in taxable income on a US 1040 tax filing, but can be included as income for an LTR visa application.

8 hours ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Background: I had an O-A visa for which I had the required health insurance. I used the same policy for meeting the LTR visa requirement in 2023 April. The Pacific Cross insurance expensive (at over 100,000 Baht premium) and  is useless because it has a 300,000 Baht deductible. I would like to use the self-insurance route of having a US$100,000 bank deposit. I have been trying in vain to contact LTR visa service in Bangkok. A written message to them gave me a an irrelevant canned answer without addressing my question. Phone calls get me a response to contact by email.

 

How does one go about getting LTR approval of the self-insurance? I got an account  Balance Letter  from my Charles Schwab bank and attached it as a file to my profile on the LTR website, but got no acknowledgment from LTR. 

 

Would it be better to make a visit to the LTR office  in Bangkok? Does one need an appointment? Would a Balance Letter be sufficient to meet the LTR requirement? 

 

If anybody has had any experience with this, please comment.

I've found going to the LTR office in Bangkok to be the best way to get answers to questions when I couldn't get answers by phone or email.

From others posting in this thread - make sure the bank account balance is with Charles Schwab Bank, and not Charles Schwab Brokerage.  Apparently the LTR unit no longer accepts brokerage accounts for the self insurance requirement.

If you do find you need to purchase an insurance policy, check out LMG Insurance - you may find their long stay visa plus policy with a high deductible to be better priced than the one you have:   https://www.lmginsurance.co.th/en/long-stay-visa-plus-premium-plan-100000-usd

Demographics are not favorable for residential property demand.

20 hours ago, Cocon said:

Hi Misty,

 

No minimum salary amount is required, I have LTR WP and I work now for my old company as a consultant for 1-2 days a week, I asked them before and they said I could choose the salary by myself and there is no minimum.

Thanks Cocon, it's good to know.  In the near term we're planning to hire a new employee. Longer term I could see a similar situation as you describe, working part-time.

I had a lot of pain in my neck and right arm during covid. Finally had it checked out, hospital ran some x-rays and said there were signs of degeneration. they thought related to aging.

Ended up working with a physical trainer and added a series of daily stretches to my normal workouts. These helped, but only some.

What really helped (and now have no pain) was starting to do pushups regularly again. Hadn't really done these since army days. Good form with neck straight is obviously important. 

I wonder how much of what medicine calls "normal aging degeneration" can be helped in this way.

5 hours ago, TravelerEastWest said:

Form 46 was required for my WP LTR Pension so company income and salary immigration reviews teh work permit application - it was easy to do They didn't tell me the required salary but probably the normal requirements...

You could be correct that the requirements are the same as for a work permit not attached to an HSP LTR visa, although the LTR unit said verbally there are no requirements. 

I calculate a breakeven point between a normal tax schedule (PND91 - progressive rates) and the HSP tax schedule (PND95- flat 17%) at about Bt181,000 per month.  If you earn below that, you'd pay less Thai tax using PND91 calculations.  If you earn above that, you pay less Thai tax at the flat 17% rate.  Not that that is taken into consideration for the HSP digital work permit, however.

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

@Misty PM sent, but it does not indicate a salary needed.

Thanks @ThailandRyan, qualification information is clear.  Still looking for details on what salary is required for the digital work permit, does anyone know?

Does anyone know what the digital work permit salary requirements are for LTR-HSP visa holders?

For example, work permit holders with NonB visas have stated minimum salary requirements that vary by nationality.

I’m considering hiring an employee who qualifies for the LTR HSP visa. I’ve asked the LTR unit about what the digital work permit salary requirements are for HSP visa holders and been told verbally by a junior staff that “there are none.”  I’ve tried to verify this in writing (emailed the LTR unit, looked for legal documentation), but have not received a response nor found anything online supporting it. 

All I can find is that there are no 4 Thai employee requirements - nothing about salary requirements either way.

If there truly are no salary requirements, it would be good to know and would provide more flexibility. But if there are salary requirements, it would be better to find out now rather than later.

As always, I appreciate any insight that this forum can provide.

3 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

I think so, in the definition of unearned income and the composition of the 250000 USD investment for those who don't meet the pension requirement. But can't say anything for sure as I don't have the first hand experience having gotten the visa on the base of my pension only.

 

I think @Misty , @Pib or @oldcpu could be more helpful.

I haven't had a wealthy pensioner visa before, but maybe @Pib or @oldcpu can help

3 hours ago, K2938 said:

True, but even there the BOI appears to be kind of immune to economic logic.  If you show them a brokerage account worth a zillion dollars, they will say this does not meet the self-health insurance criteria since it needs to be in cash even if you could easily sell the shares at any time or take out a margin loan against them hugely exceeding $100k USD.  Also, they even reject if the $100k USD in cash is in a brokerage account in cash, insisting it needs to be a bank account as far as I know.  So they just love to tick boxes and if the situation does not fully meet this they will reject things even if they are economically vastly superior.

I've heard it's the way the law was written that is the problem.  The BoI is stuck with following the law, such as it is. But would hope that at some point the law could be amended to be made more reasonable.

1 hour ago, Pib said:

It's most definitely income....that's why government's usually tax it.   But if a person is reinvesting that cap gain income he's actually not receiving that income to fulfil day-to-day spending needs.

 

And BoI considers it income for purposes of an LTR Pensioner visa income when it's being distributed/paid out to the person...gets sent to his bank acct.    Now I do not mean being "reinvested" like how mutual funds declare dividends/cap gains once or twice a year and it's up to the shares owner whether he wants those cap gains paid out to him (i.e., sent to his bank acct) or just reinvested to buy more shares.  If he's just has the cap gains plowed back into the fund to buy more shares then the person does not have an actual income stream from that reinvestment....he's rich on paper but poor in actual money in hand for day-to-day spending.

 

So if a person is going the route  of using a BIG investment to qualify for a LTR Pensioner visa (like regular savings/investment/401K/IRA/etc) he will also need to show $80K/year of that big investment actually being distributed to him...repeat, actually being paid out to his bank acct....that is now income flow vs just a big investment on paper.  And BOI may want to see the size/balance of that big investment if that investment is clearly not a special retirement acct like a 401K/IRA which will show whether the balance is large enough to provide 10 years worth of $80K/year distributions...the investment statement would show the balance after each distribution/pay out.    

 

Yeap, BOI now needs to see the income stream actually flowing to you for a Pension visa; just setting on a HUGE savings of zillions of dollars but actually receiving/spending little of it will not hack-it with BOI when they want to see an actual income stream of $80K/year.    Early on in the LTR program BoI would apparently not require an actual income stream of $80K/year if say you only had $60K in actual income flowing to your bank acct (that's all you needed/wanted each year) BUT you were also setting on a big investment you had "not" started to draw from yet and that big investment was large enough to provide an additional $20K/year to get you to $80K/year.   

 

But apparently now BoI no longer does that.   I was communicating with a fellow AseanNow member a couple months ago about this....he actually went to the BoI LTR unit at Chamchuri Square Bangkok to talk the issue face-to-face as his income stream fell a little below $80K/year right now but he was also setting on a big investment pot of money he didn't want to start drawing from yet due to his age and wanted to see if BoI would accept that near term/future income stream to satisfy the 80K/year requirement.  The answer was no; BoI no longer accepts that.  They did early on in the LTR program in some cases like discussed in the YouTube video way back in this topic where the LTR visa spokesperson was interviewed,  but now they no longer accept future/potential income streams...maybe it turned into a slippery slope type thing for BoI....don't know.  Instead, that stream needs to be flowing right now....not just dammed-up saving your water for a possible future drought. 

 

Heck, if a person is under 50 years of age and therefore can't qualify for a Pensioner visa even if going for the LTR Wealthy Global Citizen visa where a person needs to show $1M in assets they "also" have the basic requirement of an income stream of $80K/year unless an exception applies.  Even  the Work-from-Thailand Professional and Highly Skilled Professional LTR visa types also require an $80K/year income stream although there are a couple of exceptions in the different LTR visa types which allows a $40K/year income stream (or even less) in some cases when coupled with some other requirements....see the details of each type for the exceptions.  Only the Spouses & Dependents LTR type does not have an income requirement.

 

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/#what

1st four LTR Visa types below have income stream requirements; only the Spouses & Dependents type does not.

 

 

Thanks Pib, this is a great reminder for me. Looking to hire a new HSP employee and realized I'd forgotten some of the details of the requirements.  Good to review everything to make sure they can qualify.  With all the time I've spent on these visas I thought I was pretty familiar with the details, but that was not the case apparently!