citybiker

I'm aware it's just one poll, however if this momentum continues the it could be a political game changer.

Brexit more important than keeping the UK together, public say in poll for the Telegraph - The Telegraph

https://apple.news/AqtZpOKNuQ0eGrwbttGi0WQ

For Sturgeon & May....especially for TM.

The SNP stills fails to grasp blocking from delaying....the ranting, frothing and bile from the 2 usual suspects is becoming very tiresome....

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Interesting podcast for some:

'Nicola Sturgeon has made a very big mistake - and it's just beginning to dawn on her': Chopper's Brexit podcast episode 3 - The Telegraph
https://apple.news/ACJXRVUCDSAeagCKgGj-0Mg


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For as long as I can recall, the SNP has been committed to a nuclear weapons free Scotland, so they have stated that they would demand that trident be removed from Faslane and all Scottish waters.
 
The UK government was upset on a couple of fronts - firstly the cost of relocation to, I think, South of England ran into the billions of pounds; also the population density there is far higher, so if there was an incident, it would affect a greater number of people.
 
The unions made a noise, I think, based on the number of people working at Faslane that they said would lose their jobs. However the numbers never stacked up - while several thousand people work there directly or are tangentially employed in connection to the base, the base itself serves far more functions than simply servicing nuclear submarines. In fact, I think the total number of people who would be affected if trident was to be relocated would be around 240. Of course, that would still be a blow for 240 people, but the cost savings from not having to pay for trident would be enormous, and also it would open up this very unique deep water port to a far wider range of commercial uses.

Ok thanks, however without thread derailment removing our vital nuclear defence capabilities (without credible alternative) would an open invitation to any political nut job to exploit the UK venerabilities.

And it would grossly irresponsible for any political party or Government to implement such a move, safety of its citizens is paramount.

Now return to topic..


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Genuine question:

Correct me if wrong, Are the RN sub bases on the SNP radar?

IIRC the issue of nuclear subs was a controversial NIMBY. Although I think the Unions were a little upset of the prospect of having to relocate.


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Probably about the same amount as the Brexit minister:
 
 

The Brexit minister David Davis has to start from scratch.

What's the SNP's poor administration excuse?


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May say's no...
 
The Scottish Government could hold a referendum but it would not be legally binding, and if it went "tits up" for Sturgeon it could be construed as a vote of no confidence of her.

And I've just seen the Scottish Parliament in action.

The Sturgeon backlash was tangibly clear.

The vibe was simply unwarranted, unwanted an unnecessary.


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We are being dragged into the unknown already, and by a party that few in Scotland trust to do what is in the best interests of the majority of the country. We also know that there are no plans in place for Brexit; they haven't even done an economic assessment of the impact of not reaching a deal with the EU. They are literally making it up as they go along, whilst doing nothing to mitigate against their possible failure. As if there weren't enough reasons to leave the UK, there is no credible opposition to hold these people to account.

So the SNP's bizarre & sadistic mindset is to interfere with Brexit negotiations without knowing the full facts? It's political spite as the SNP dispise the Tories, nothing more nothing less.

So Scotland doesn't trust the Tories? What's new there, time to move on from the Thatcher bashing years.

No plans for Brexit, which part of unknown territory do many still not grasp?

As for economic assessment, check out the Leave EU & other Vote to leave sources some of the economic assessments are available, there was enough media trash about the £350 a week for the NHS for a start so info is there.


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Quite.
 
If Sturgeon wants another referendum, then the Scottish people should be in possession of all the facts.
 
This includes what Scotland's relationship with the EU will be post Brexit if it remains in the UK, and likewise if it leaves.
 
One has to wonder why Sturgeon does not want the Scottish people to have that information before they vote.
 

I think that due to the poor campaigning from both Remain/leave in respect to Brexit then many of the electorate simply do not trust what's being put out to the wider domain.

The Scottish electorate should be fully informed of Scotlands intention, Sturgeon knows her EU ambitions are dead and yet the electorate do not know what the SNP's plans are, it's still on the SNP website that the parties intention is EU or bust.

Nothing concrete has been obtained to secure this ambition, yet recent events state the SNP want the EFTA now. The electorate are more confused now than they've ever been. Inform your voting electorate of your strategic aim and be honest, up front and transparency is key.



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Certainly if there are more Scotland haters than I suspected. Is the angry man in the video more common than I thought?

I think 'Scotland Haters' summary on just a few threads on here is a poor dim to be fair, I know of at least 3 forums debating Scotland & Brexit and the majority of what I've read on other sources is pure nationalist drivel too and focusing on damaging the UK as a whole with the SNP being the main architect's.

That's not to say Scotland doesn't deserve a voice, because quite rightly it should be treated equal, like Wales and NI. The only difference is the other two are not hell bent in breaking up the Union without a coherent properly laid post policy.

I've no doubt in a post Brexit period and beyond that Scotland will equally prosper as long as all political elements allow the bigger picture to progressively proceed. Scotland voted to remain in the UK and the Uk voted to leave the EU, IIRC there was no option on the voting sheet for special internal country preference as the UK government must ensure the whole country is catered for.

Yes, it's only my viewpoint but attempting to divide a nation when we have a generation to look after post Brexit is priority, as a Scot living in England I am concerned for my remaining family back in Scotland.


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Scots Nats have an abundance of principles.  So many in fact that they can afford to have one set for themselves, and another for everyone else!!!

SNP hypocrisy?

Nah, I wouldn't believe that for a minute [emoji849]


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You posted this shameful example of journalistic deceit on the other thread and I explained there that even the article itself doesn't back up the lie in the headline.

Journalistic deceit?

I'm aware these journalists have a prime agenda however you yourself agreed that Scotlands fiscal status requires radical urgent overhaul.

Excuse if I missed anyone's reply however I did ask if the SNP planning on addressing this issue prior or post possible independence as I'm sure the electorate have a right to know.


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The Spanish have long memories of the Scottish referendum, and they're just one member apposed.

Why Spain will block any attempt by Scotland to join the EU - the guardian
https://apple.news/AHfzmPrygQJSQcZrMecmAMg


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Another reminder that Scotland's best hope is remain in the U.K.

The Spanish are just one member apparently supposed to Scotland's EU dream (as I re-read on their website today).

The following lefty article hits the nail on the head.

Why Spain will block any attempt by Scotland to join the EU - the guardian
https://apple.news/AHfzmPrygQJSQcZrMecmAMg


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Whilst I don't want to suggest that anyone is blind to the fact that Scotland requires to restructure its finances and spending in a radical and, quite probably, painful manner, it is not correct to suggest that Professor McLaren, the author of the report in question, has no skin in the game.
 
On the positive side, figures out today show unemployment down in Scotland by 16,000 and our jobless rate is now comparable with the UK as a whole.

Genuine question:

And when does the SNP plan on following through on these radical and painful fiscal restructuring....Prior or post possible independence?

(Even the Tory led Government have admitted it'll take longer to balance the books, basic economists could have worked out that it would take 'at least' 2 Government periods to try and reduce the deficit.)

Stabilising Economic's in radical terms requires monetary easing (inflation fluctuations) and which part of the ongoing UK's £1.7trillion debt upon independence are they going to address to?


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I am not sure about that one - according to Wikipedia, the castle and estates are the private property of the monarch and not the Crown, however whether she is expected to pay for their upkeep is not clear to me.
Balmoral Estates generates an income - possibly that is retained to pay for the upkeep of the castle?

Revenue earned ploughed back into the estate would certainly be plausible, however another way of finding out if the annual accounts were accessed via the open source means, i.e. The monarch website.

I understand the austerity element, however meddling and using the royal estates are not something that's a political pawn nor used for point scoring either.


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Independent analysis versus SNP fiscal policies.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/indyref2-independent-scotland-would-face-11bn-deficit-economist-1-4392517

Hope the article sources are factual as this could be a tactile but gentle reminder to the SNP and the electorate..


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Fantastic - post of the day in my book. 300 years back from where you clearly are would see the first creatures emerge from the sea.

You should probably be aware that the police are now investigating a catalogue of online threats to the First Minister.

Unfortunately online trolls are the Vermin and disease of the internet, it's one of the main justifications I refuse to use FB too.

I certainly hope this kind of action is nipped in the bud sharpish as it's detracts from the bigger strategic more important issues that lay ahead.

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Excuse for minor thread distraction, however the SNP are planning to vote against Buckingham Palace repairs.

My question is, is the SG or Royal family responsibilities of Ballater Castle, Balmoral estates?

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/snp-to-vote-against-369m-buckingham-palace-repairs-a3490331.html


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Sturgeon may have some 'common' sense after all.....

However I'll believe it when I see her future tone & actions.

Nicola Sturgeon signals Scotland referendum could be held after Brexit - the guardian
https://apple.news/AfUhXMtS1TTO7jD-tUFECvA


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I think I addressed this in my previous post, but if you want specifics:
 
You decried the SNP's domestic performance and I asked you to elaborate. Your response was "Poor domestic governance: primarily narrowing the focus on the SNP."
That is what I mean by froth - a lack of reasoning to back up a significant claim.
 
I also suggested that the Tory party was in dissaray because of internal power struggles and their failure to plan for Brexit. You responded with "The only party in more disarray than Labour is the SNP.".
Again, that is a very strong statement to make in the current climate, and again you offer no evidence to back it up.
 
 

As Froth equates to rabid, we'll respectfully disagree.

Reasoning, ok.... permissible only with factual relevant up to date links otherwise it's only classed as a viewpoint.




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Once in a generation - as long as there was no material change in the UK that went at odds against the expressed wishes of the Scottish people.

I can appreciate that some find that hard to take - maybe I would feel the same if I wasn't (a) in favour of Scottish independence and ( in favour of remaining in the EU, but as I see both as important for the future of my country, I will support any means of achieving them.

I firmly believe Scotland remaining in the UK is strategically & vitally important, and I will support by any means, resources and capability to ensure we the UK remain united.

Primary focus is a United Kingdom prospering outside an EU, I also understand that many will be passionate and struggle to believe the UK can globally prosper after an amicable 40 year EU relationship however it is possible, achievable with the calm level heads required.

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OK, I actually thought you wanted to contribute to the debate but the above is simply biased froth with literally nothing to support your statements.

Please elaborate on biased froth?

Or is a open dislike for a political party frowned upon?

I'm fully aware of how passionate this issue is yet I've shown no indication of froth that I can see..


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I do not think the SNP really want to join the EU, just an excuse to have another referendum, as you pointed out in your previous post there are many conditions the EU will insist on that will turn the stomachs of most Scott's 

I've absolutely no intention to a froth debate (excuse if that impression) and very simply contribute to a balanced unbiased facts and constructive viewpoints.

I'm on a few forums debating exactly the issue and it's interesting the same points are being raised in various disguises. Half my family remains is Scotland and I've witnessed first hand SNP canvassing and campaigning and their attitude and tactics and deplorable to near disgusting to say the least.

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But she has a point. We have a government foisted upon us that has one single representative out of 59 MPs. Unfortunately there may be no easy way to say this, but Scotland has had to endure a Tory coalition then a Tory majority government, and all the failed and highly damaging austerity that went with it, because of English tory voters. That isn't anti-English sentiment but reality.

 

Brexit is the same situation - the overwhelming wish of the Scottish people, far more emphatic than their wish to stay part of the UK, was to remain in Europe. As the country's democratically elected leader, she is mandated to respect that wish and fight for it however she can.

So the 'once in a generation' Scottish referendum' result now simply being ignored despite Scotland still being part of the UK.

Sturgeon can fight, froth and demand all she wants, Scotland voted to remain in the UK.

Brexit was a UK as a whole decision, just because Scotland and Ireland voted otherwise internally doesn't change the overall result.

Even London overall voted to remain, the fact remains the majority of the UK wants out.

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Wrong...
 
The SNP have only one objective,     ...Independence
 
They did not win the last referendum and before the last vote was counted they started calling for another...
 
Surely if   ...and if they were to get another referendum ...and if they actually win do you not think it reasonable for those opposed to call for another referendum???  
 
My thoughts on referendum is they rules should be changed  for all referendums so only if there was a clear majority (say 65%) in favour would the motion be carried.
 
 

Independence with trying to join the EU, ill await to proven otherwise.


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