citybiker

France will be next I pulling out of this EU experiment ,  once the new leader  is  in power.  Good Luck  EU  your  years  are numbered.
Geezer

I'll be very surprised if France leave's the EU.

However, I hope to be blatantly proved wrong on this occasion.


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Oh I say, "moonbat" is a bit unkind. He seems a cheerful little chappie, a sort of latter day George Formby , seems to pop up quite regularly on the BBC Radio 4 news.
Living here one gets so out of touch - what does he do exactly?
 

Agreed, moonbat maybe a tad harsh.

Although Tim's recent campaigning is hardly going to plan according to media reports.

Oh dear...


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The Labour party has been stuck between a rock and a hard place for a looooong time. The parliamentary wing is infested with Blairite 'soundbite'  yuppies with no moral compass, who might as well be  Liberal Democrats . The constituency wing is infested with the purple-haired nose-ring brigade which got Corbyn into the box seat, What a bloody mess!

Which is probably the reason why Sturgeon offered a 'fig leaf coalition' proposal, along with that moonbat Tim Farron.

I admire TM in that she's the opposite of Cameron in many ways, since taking office despite her flaws she's given a clear defining focus on her objectives & overall aim, and not given a running commentary is a wise tactic, only speaking when necessary thus giving more weight to what she actually says, although i remain cautious to the June 8th GE for now.


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The Labour party has been stuck between a rock and a hard place for a looooong time. The parliamentary wing is infested with Blairite 'soundbite'  yuppies with no moral compass, who might as well be  Liberal Democrats . The constituency wing is infested with the purple-haired nose-ring brigade which got Corbyn into the box seat, What a bloody mess!

Which is probably the reason why Sturgeon offered a 'fig leaf coalition' proposal, along with that moonbat Tim Farron.

I admire TM in that she's the opposite of Cameron in many ways, since taking office despite her flaws she's given a clear defining focus on her objectives & overall aim, and not given a running commentary is a wise tactic, only speaking when necessary thus giving more weight to what she actually says, although i remain cautious to the June 8th GE for now.


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Oooh.  This could get good if it goes the other way.

If it goes the other way, there's going to be a hell of a mess to clear up.

Corbyn, would you honestly allow this man to represent the UK on the global stage?

A strong, positive and strategic Brexit is what the UK needs right now, not some protestor come Benny Hill plastic politician controlled by the Union cartel's.


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Economic/Eurozone drag due to the weaker PIGS will always be tolerated as the survival of the EU is the most important issue of all.

It makes me laugh when the likes of Labours JC accuses the Government of attempting to undermine the EU when he EU itself has inequality.

For all those claiming the Euro is undervalued, action speaks louder than words.


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We shouldn't be surprised Federica is giving speeches like this.

Firstly, she's representing the EU, ensuring the EU's interests are safe guarded, which will include pro EU speeches including forecasts, predictions and of course facts, and the primary one is to educate, influence and deter.

It's far too early to summarise who'll lose or gain, Federico fully knows this, same as the European Commission.

It's political poker, the UK has its own priorities to deal with and ensuring a constructive, strategic and progressive Brexit is aimed for.


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I think Turkey is about to be taken OFF constant review & returned to the bottom drawer marked 'LATER'

In an ideal world I'd agree with your POV.

However, if it was a perfect world, it wouldn't be.


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I can just imagine 'possible end of 2017 being:

May. UK leader (Hopefully)
Le Pen. France leader (unlikely)
Merkel. Germany's leader (highly likely)

France & Germany will continue with the EU project telling others how to run Europe while the black sheep UK doesn't play to the EU script whilst the likes of Italy, Greece and Spain focus on survival in some form or another.

And of course, putting Turkey's EU application on constant review.


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If May was going to do what was in the best interest of the country she would have stuck to her belief and principles to remain. On the basis the referendum was only advisory. Not become a Tory tart with no principles, with only a lust for power.

Oh dear tsk.

'Tory Tart'?

To that end, I'll refrain from any further response.


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I've never been an admirer of The Economist or Bloomberg but after reading those 2 reasonable but not entirely flawless free articles I may need a sit down.

 

Yes, holding firm against the more 'extreme' hard Conservatives is akin to like JC attempting to crack the whip with 'Momentum' and 'Labour uncut'.

[mention=231957]Grouse[/mention] thanks for sharing.

 

 

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And I agree in parts to your post
 
Yes the majority were dissatisfied with the status quo (inequality being the main underlying reason IMHO). But, there is/was a sizeable minority who were content with the status quo or at least felt that on balance, remain was the better choice.
 
I fear that if the Con government succeed in their covert plan to crash out, many Brexiteers are going to end up even worse off [emoji52]
 
At the the very least we need strong opposition and I would prefer a coalition.

I honestly didn't think that leave would succeed, especially after Jo Cox's tragic & unnecessary death, however we now move on from the result.

Also, I don't believe the Con's are aiming to crash out, covert or otherwise viewed as, unfortunately with the EU determined to make the UK an example to deter other's attempting to follow & May has regularly emphasised that what's best best for the country that matters.

Lastly, all the hard Brexit talk is deemed primarily from the left, media and any anti-Brexit source, although I do agree a strong opposition is needed but an SNP/Labour/LD coalition may sound inviting (but already squashed) it would involve further unnecessary infighting and less focus on ensuring the Government were bought to account to the wider more serious issues that Brexit contains. It's far too early to conclude if anyone is going to worse off however I'm a natural pessimist but also a staunch realist.


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The cultural (regional difference) is a factor that needs to taken into consideration why 'Brit's' often struggle abroad.

Narrowing the focus, in my experience English, Scots Welsh & NI will all have comparisons, hopes and expectations and when overseas they fail to meet any of those three then possibility negativity sets in, and failure to adapt.

Thailand & it's people are simply amazing, courteous and extremely friendly, treat people irrespective of nationality whilst in that country with equal respect. Enjoyment can be shared if the right mindset is applied.


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This at least gives us a chance to get rid of the rump and tail  of Thatcher's Nasty Party.  The creation of the European idea was first done by Britain's greatest Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill in 1947 in speech at Zurich University when he proposed a United States of Europe. May's actions have been nothing  but a betrayal of all that Sir Winston Churchill stood for. In the 1950's he built millions of decent council homes for the heroes of WW ll. Thatcher sold them off. What have UK servicemen now got a charity called "Help for Heroes". It was the Labour and Conservatives who mishandled the free movement of labour and they had the nerve to blame Europe for

interfering with us. France Germany and Italy all put a 6 or 7 year delay on the movement of east European nationals. The UK's politicians did not, this is why a Brexit referendum should never have happened. It only covered up their mistakes and errors. The continuous argument about unelected commissioners making all Europe's decisions is false. They are the civil service of the European Parliament. UK's civil service likewise does the same job in the UK and no-one ever criticizes them of interfering of making the Laws they work on. After all if you cross a may flower with a may fly. What do you get? Something twice as nasty. Anyone who thinks Theresa May is a strong leader is wrong. Originally she is alleged to have been a remainers, but chose to appease and support the Brexiteers of her party. Appeasement number 2, when the UK had the chair of Europe to take she appeased Europe by giving it up. Appeasement number 3, like Chamberlain running to shake hands with Hitler, she could not wait to run and hold hands with Trump. Of course Davis in her party campaigned that trade with be able all to carry on as normal. Now when questioned about what happens if there is no agreement on trade he says  "I haven't a clue". This is not the way to run a country. When there was $4 to £ in the late 1940's billions of dollars were borrowed to rebuild the UK. It was finally paid off in 2006. There should be no austerity and no huge debt. What are our politicians doing with our money? You can't blame Europe for it.

 

I agree in 'parts' to your post however I disagree that the Brexit referendum shouldn't have happened.

 

Cameron only held the referendum as he was arrogantly confident he'd win, politicians need reminding they're voted in to serve the electorate. Labour, for example didn't think the electorate were worthy of an EU vote thus never offered it. TM has a tough job ahead of her however I don't see anyone else capable.

 

The current status quo wasn't working, the EU vote was long overdue, warranted & fully justified.

 

 

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The Labour Party always rules out any coalition with other parties ahead of every election.

I'm not sure the Labour Party have that kind of luxury on their side.

Although, a coalition proposal would still need approval of the PLP.

It's going to be a long 7 weeks.....[emoji849]


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Well, there's going to be a fair amount of annoyed Labour voters joining the likes of the SNP & LD angry mob.

 

JC has ruled out a 2nd referendum & will not be in its manifesto.

JC has also ruled out any coalition with other parties.

UKIP seeking the marginal seats & also have Clacton to fight (Carswell resigned)

So that leaves sturgeon & Farron focusing on anything:

 

Anti-Tory

Anti-Brexit

Anti-establishment

 

And the leader's debate will have an empty chair representing the PM whilst the other's bitch fight between each other, TM is right to stay clear of it all.

 

 

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Sadly, a large proportion of the British people did not understand the ramifications.
 
There's no backstabbing; it's front stabbing now [emoji846]

I fully agree it's blatant front stabbing.

As Brexit is unknown territory I'd say there's ramifications for both parties involved if they don't pursue a common constructive positive goal instead of all this anti-Brexit nonsense.

The UK has a once in generation (sorry SNP) opportunity to get this right, however...

The EU have to answer to the other 27 countries & obviously only thinking of it's own interests.

As a ScotBrit the UK will always come first in my view, end of story.


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Looks like Gina Miller had something brewing and TM got wind of it.
 
"Ms Miller said the hadn’t been time to organise  “a formal progressive alliance,” so “we have to do what we can in the time available. We need to re-energise people about the importance of voting tactically.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/gina-miller-general-election-latest-tactical-voting-best-for-britain-article-20-new-group-mps-a7692121.html
 

Insufficient time? Tsk

She had enough time to drag the Government through the courts though. (I thought females were the best to multitask?)

Oh dear, never mind..


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The Times today
 
I think some Brexiteers, the xenophobic variety will now tend to be more attracted to UKIP because of their more extreme immigration stance. Probably more labour deserters than Tories I guess. It all helps though [emoji846]

In fairness UKIP's primary role is basically complete, we're officially leaving the EU (despite in denial Farron et al determined to obstruct).

UKIP will likely struggle, many of their staunch core voters will vote for the party however the moderate's will return to the Conservatives to ensure Brexit is delivered.

UKIP as a party has to focus on being much more professional, including policy review and do whatever's possible to shake off the 'one policy party' mindset.


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There is talk of the Greens not standing in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale as a way of helping the SNP unseat David Mundell, the only Tory MP in Scotland, and other possible strategic constituencies. 

 

Has the SNP ruled out an alliance with LibLab? If they were offered what they want, I see no reason why they would reject it. 

 

 

 

Corbyn has already ruled out a coalition.

 

Sturgeon unsurprisingly wants a coalition.

 

The Green's are labelled as SNP lite.

 

 

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The LIberal Democrats of course. The  only party + the SNP which have consistently been opposed to Brexit. And article 50 is not irreversible if a deal can't be made brexit will not happen - end of story.

Judging by how swiftly UK politics develop's 'end of story' would be factually incorrect.

A brief browse of the EU's red lines could well mean a no deal is a stark possibility & the U.K. Reverting to WTO.

As for the Liberal Democrats + SNP?

Opposing Brexit is a right of view & choice. Abstaining a vote in many eyes is clearly seen as weak, obtrusive and unwilling to adapt to changes.




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Yes, I am suggesting that. Hopefully the opposition will miss no opportunity to point out that she is scared to face scrutiny.

TM faces scrutiny every Wednesday at PMQ's & she's currently on the campaign trail (Bolton yesterday).

I also hear on the BBC that Corbyn has ruled himself out of a Labour/SNP coalition as it 'has' been suggested.

The Westminster opposition parties 'political game playing' rings so true after what TM stated in her speech, most of the electorate just wants the UK Government to focus on the Best Brexit deal possible.

My viewpoint of all the opposition is lower than ever for having TM reluctantly call a snap GE.




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522 for 13 against. 

Over 100 abstained.

Yet to see full breakdown of the culprits.


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As a relative newcomer to these forums the ad hominem & slang name calling does unfortunately lower & occasionally diverts the aim of that persons argument and indeed post. (I'm infrequently also guilty m'lord)

 

However I must confess to having a tough Ayrshire skin combined with my non disclosed background of being aware people's views do differ along with they're political support and alliance.

 

A constructive, balanced and progressive debate is what most aim for not a schoolyard slander deliberately intending to hack people off, I often disagree with a few on here but keeping it civil is the MO.

 

At least the forum hasn't descended into PMQ's.....yet.

 

 

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Yes that is broadly my analysis also, some attempt has to be made to go beyond the mud slinging and ask why now? That is the question of the day (Well yesterday).  Despite her repeatedly denying she would call an election, she saw that the simple and simplistic in/out Brexit was never going to happen, and as things came unstuck the the blame would fall on the Tories in 2020, who else can the voters blame?  Forget Corbyn's vomit inducing duplicity on Brexit, I expect he will be long gone after the likely significant loss of seats to come. Ukip are disappearing from view with their Xenophobic filth. May is obviously a nasty piece of work, but stupid she is not.

May an obvious nasty piece of work, any evidence to support that statement?

There's no simple in/out Brexit (albeit could have if the EU weren't so hell bent on making the UK an example) as it's completely unknown territory, but a vitally important one to get right strategically.


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