citybiker

That is true but I think many of the traditional Tory voters may not bother this time.  A large amount were Remainers (especially in the south) and they may well feel reluctant to rubber stamp May's approach to Brexit.
 
May will win because there is no viable opposition and she knows that.  If there were then she wouldn't risk an election now.

I'm on the fence whether May will achieve the majority win she's seeking, the turnout will be questionable seeing as there's local elections first on 4th May, then the June 8th GE one.

The Tories are still unpopular in many northern parts of England & even with Brexit on the Horizon many just want the Government to focus on achieving the best deal possible with the EU, and it's clear from the offset succeeding will be very tough.

The electorate can be a fickle bunch, but also frustrated at calling an election when our politicians should be united as a country for Brexit not political party infighting which is May's justification for calling the snap GE.


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Stewart Hosie SNP economist spokesman on BBC breakfast.

'Hard Brexit'
'Hard Brexit'
'Hard Brexit'

So the remaining serious issues to be highlighted & debated in Scotland irrelevant in his interview?




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Also she technically needs a vote in parliament which she has yet to do under the new Fixed Term Parliament Rules which don't appear to be worth the paper they are written on.

Much like the Article 50 paper that wasn't properly designed to be used.

I understand why May has reluctantly done this however I still have reservations.


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A Labour/LD/SNP coalition?

Now that would be interesting & highly unlikely as the leadership contest would be a bloodbath.

As for Blair & Farron....Tony is an egotist & craves power but realistically & thankfully will not return to a leadership position, Corybn despite what he says on tv is no UK leader & Farron is more of a clown than Sturgeon.



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I will make a prediction, Jeremy Corbyn will not lead the Labor party into this election campaign 

 

If May wins, I predict Corbyn & Farron gone by the end of the summer, JC never wanted Labour leader job & gives him a respectable justification to stand down saying he's done his best, and Farron will accept anything that's media air time just to promote what's remaining of the LD's.

 

As for Sturgeon, she's clearly very unhappy at today's call.

 

Overall, that'll teach the other political parties to be careful what they wish for (Labour & LD called for a snap GE back in 2016). Let the other parties implode & force each other into a corner, May's justification is very much warranted. The UK needs strong leadership & support for Brexit not childish petty political game playing by the nay Sayers.

 

Fair play to ruthless TM, Westminster has been given a wake up call & bloody nose all in one day..

 

 

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They have the most to loose!

IIRC Labour has lost one already on the snap GE news.

Alan Johnston, sorry no link.

At least the frenzy of political campaigning will be short & then revert to focus on ensuring the UK can see Brexit being delivered along with other domestic business.

I think Sturgeon is realising she's not dealing with a damp squib in TM, the other political parties being caught on the hop over this is mainly their 'own doing'.

Less party political infighting, bitching & bickering & focus on the what the electorate voted MP's for, representing them in a constructive, progressive and positive manner.


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Because of the EU, we don't need national service! Yet...

And hopefully post Brexit no U.K. Government will reintroduce it either.

With an UK unemployment rate at 4.7% unlikely to happen in the near future either.


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If Brexit wasn't on the table the conservatives would have no chance. They used it to grab power at the last election and they will use it again to keep the power for another 5 years. In the mean time real issues like the NHS low taxes for all their mates will be ignored.


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And if Labour were in power the UK national debt would be significantly higher than the scarily high £1.7 trillion with they're borrowing policies.

Brexit is an opportunity, Labour didn't trust the electorate enough to be given the choice, if the EU/UK fails to achieve an amicable deal then we could be a low tax investment attractive country that prospers even more.

Meaning more investment in our services like the NHS, financial governance is what the NHS severely lacks & quite frankly I wouldn't trust Labour with a department brew fund let alone the country's budget.


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I can't agree with your comment that brexit is unaffected.  If what the remainers say is true then the Tories will lose, after which all bets are off.  (Not that most remain voters will be willing to vote Corybn in). That is why it's a clever gambit by May.  

It's taken nearly 9 months for the anti-Brexit mob (HoP etc) to finally accept the democratic result, not even JC is stupid enough to risk annoying the electorate.

What's more irritating is the standard of politicians who are hell bent in obstructing progress & jumping on the media bandwagon with the Hard Brexit theme.

IIRC only anti-Brexit & lefty media sources continue to spout the HB tripe.


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Brexit referundum2?  Quite clever of her.

Brexit is unaffected.

Source: European Council amongst one.

As a side note, the other parties have been caught on the hop & the 4th May local elections will be a good indicator.

Fair play to TM on this, her speech was strong, determined & gave clear clarity to the pathetic politicians wishing to consistently obstruct progress.

If I hear Tim Farron mention 'Hard Brexit' again I hope the LD's get equally crushed as Labour do, and JC will have a reasonable excuse to resign.

As for Sturgeon?


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This is very astute timing by May.

Shes sending a very clear message, put up or shut up as the political game playing is hindering the Brexit process.

Interesting times lay ahead.


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PMTM has called a snapped GE for June 8th.

Reluctantly done although she's made it clear the Westminster political game playing is frustrating her & she's seeking a clear coherent mandate.

Labour to implode ?
LD's wimper
SNP being a thorn
Problematic for UKIP's survival.


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@RR

Ref: post #668

The SNP & Sturgeon do not represent the will of the 'whole of Scotland'.

Lastly, I hope the SNP have learnt lesson's however we do agree that a the HoP does indeed require a strong credible opposition, unfortunately IMO I'm not seeing much tangible evidence of this to date from either parties.

Which is disappointing.


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My point was that Spain is behaving in an inflammatory manner after initially responding sensibly to Lord Howard's silliness. Why does one of it's warships need to keep sailing right up to the rock?

Simple provocation?

Either that, or it's a poor pathetic Naval/Political wind up from the Spanish authorities.

There's a much larger strategic issue needing addressed here, yet the Spanish/EU political elements need to get a grip, judging by recent events I won't hold my breath.




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Maybe you can point out where I mentioned anything about voting.
My point was made in the context of the whole post, that their 'views', with reference to the SNP, expressed in any campaign should be given serious consideration and not overshadowed by those that may be clouded from the past.

Valid point reference voting within your post.

However, you say the views of young should be given priority of older people.

It affects all, the young will do what generations did before them....adapt, adjust and overcome.


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"A family member recently mentioned that the SNP can't be trusted"
 
That is a left over from the old days, there was always a question mark over the relationship between the SNP and the SNA, and to many south of the border they were one and the same.
 
It is the younger generation that is going to have to face the fallout of any decision so it is their views that should be given priority rather than those with lingering memories of the past. I would include myself in that as I remember the rallies Alex Salmond held in his early days and wouldn't trust him with my future. I accept that is probably unfair as people are known to change.

Oh yes, the age discrimination dilemma.

The younger generation also blamed the middle aged and older generation for the Brexit result, unfortunately democracy doesn't consider the age factor in these situations & quite right too.

Lastly, if more of the younger UK generation 'bothered' to vote then that argument would have some credibility.


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Five minutes in...
Portillo - "You said at the time is would be settled for a generation."
Salmond - "That was last year".

Portillo's summary is harsh truth, Scottish electorate feel cheated.

I do admire AN in these programmes.


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Not at all - you are making a play to stir up controversy by going off topic. 

IIRC didn't you recently mention & raise the question 'why Scotland shouldn't be accepted by the Eu'?
(Unless there is a thread & I've missed it)

Not aiming to be pedantic but that could be classed as going off topic...

As to Scotland's future, I understand the SG want to run its own affair's, obviously Scottish devolution will never be sufficient however the constant belittlement of Westminster & blocking anything constructive and progressive is beyond tiresome and particularly childish, it's well known behind the scenes that Sturgeons being pressured by Salmon (unofficially) which explains her independence proposal speech, and attempting to simply interfere with the Brexit timetable deserved the blatant Churchill sign.

It's currently on & off the bus with the SNP and wanting either the EU or other alternative, the SNP, as you said yourself fiscal policy requires overhaul so why not focus and get domestic issues resolved and improved first then be in a much stronger position to totally self govern, IF the Scottish electorate vote for it.

A family member recently mentioned that the SNP can't be trusted as the once in a generation referendum only works when the SG gets the desired result, so the electorate decision back in 2014 was irrelevant, if it was then the SNP wouldn't be pushing so hard for a 2nd vote, instead of using Brexit as an excuse.


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I strongly suspect that the SNP is trying to 'strike whilst the iron is still hot' in relation to the Scottish brexit referendum vote. That they are (rather recklessly) pushing this, ahead of all other reasoning. Because once brexit has actually happened and there is no economic earthquake, the moment will be lost, their chance gone.

IMO 'recklessly' is the key & expect better from all politicians that are representing the electorate.

Currently, SNP Professionalism certain appears an afterthought.


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If you consider the highlighting of deficiencies and seemingly insurmountable flaws as belittling, then what hope is there for betterment? The Scottish government presented the Prime Minister with a strategic proposal for a Brexit compromise that wasn't even entertained, let alone considered.

But you ignore that and push your ad hominems...

Yet again ignoring facts as the SG proposals 'have' been considered & consulted, the PM has clearly informed Sturgeon now isn't the right time. The primary deficiency is the SNP not being in the correct position to be holding all the Brexit facts. The whole of Scotland at least deserves this seeing how important the issue is.

The flaws are in the SNP's timing, Sturgeon's inability to wait before submitting a comprehensive and coherent tangible plan to the electorate. The SNP pushing a tunnel vision agenda is hardly credible or warranted to achieve and independence debate.


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Unfortunately there are those in England who are outraged that Scots have the impertinence to suggest that there may be a better way to run their country than from Westminster, so they take every opportunity to run Scotland down and denigrate it's leaders.
 
Personally, I am fine with it. It helps in convincing my fellow Scots that independence is a very good thing, although more and more are realising that themselves every day; it also demonstrates just how little in the way of a positive case for the union there actually is.
 

The more astute Scots, irrespective of their current location also are far more aware to look above & beyond our neighbours attitude towards Scotland as a country, being fully aware & irritated of how the SNP take every opportunity to disengage and be obstinate towards the Tory Government and not look at the strategic picture to improve Scotland overall.

Personally, I'm relieved we've finally got a PM that doesn't pander to the SG and willing to say NO in a more diplomatic and constructive manner. It's also disappointing to hear that the only people that are constantly belittling the Union are Nationalist SNP supporters.


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I agree with you - much like we have seen and are continuing to see with the unsatisfactory Brexit result, but I think that it would be a hard sell, the die having been cast with the 2 recent referendi.
 
 

The Brexit result was only 'unsatisfactory' to pro-EU remain & Pro-EU Scottish voters & NI, on the other hand it was a satisfactory Brexit result for Pro-Scottish Union, England & Wales, does the latter combined voter base not matter, especially as they won democratically?

Either way, Scotland accepted staying with the Union in the last referendum, thus also accepting the UK democratically voted to leave the EU, if Scotland wasn't part of the Union it would have a case but it is.

Once a Brexit deal is complete (pending the whole UK implications) then TM will consult SG on they're proposed referendum request, I'll await Sturgeon's further actions once we, the electorate know what all parts of the U.K. as a whole have to deal with.



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2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

I'd say this is likely.

 

But there is an aggressive and influential hard right that would happily see UK crash out without a deal, as the idea of the country becoming a mega Hong Kong appeals to them.  They have clout, are master agitators, and strategists- the very fact that Brexit was swayed tells us that.

 

Would that be so very bad?  Preferably I would like to stay in EU, but failing that it may be the best remaining option. 

 

I still have doubts as to whether anything other than a soft Brexit (with a single market trade deal) will get through Parliament.  After all that is what the people appear to want.

I do agree there is an element of the hard right that would be satisfied (happy inappropriate term IMO) with walking away with no deal however TM will work strongly towards obtaining a pragmatic deal, possibly not satisfying all but a positive strategic deal for the whole UK is what she's focusing on.

 

lastly, let's not forget a hard right deal may well be difficult to pass through Parliament, especially as the SNP are likely to block anything that's counter-productive to the rest of the Union. She's made it very clear it's the best deal for the whole UK and both sides need to realise and not be naive to understand they can't have both.

 

What a sad and sordid enterprise the EU is. I expect the rest of the world is looking on in astonishment at the way how it behaves.

 

The EU's behaviour, primarily the top table muppets like Guy and Antonio are behaving like schoolyard children, Junker, Tusk and Merkel from what I've seen to date are much more subtle.

 

Agree'd, the rest of the world is monitoring this from the sidelines, and many countries wishing to trade or EU neighbours looking to join would pause and think, although Turkey wants to be member tells you all you need to know.

 

Tusk was meeting TM today, primarily to discuss the negotiations format etc, inclusions and exclusions (Gibraltar non-negotIable) but primarily to tone the exchange of words, I'm hoping its constructive and productive.

 

 

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