Tofer

17 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Only when you provide evidence to back up your assumption.

Standard response we can expect from you, when you've lost an argument.

Have you not heard of the EU's Covid recovery fund, a shared loan in contradiction of the EU rules by the way, which all EU states will be paying into for the next how many years, whether they like it or not!

50 minutes ago, candide said:

You are trolling. How exactly does it contradict what I wrote?

Try this,

Quoting you; 

You may hold any opinion you like, fact is that the decisions have been made and implemented while UK was still under EU law, and in accordance with EU law.

Followed by;

51 minutes ago, candide said:

  7 hours ago, Tofer said:

 

Make your mind up. It was you who stated;

 

During the transition period, the EU law applied. As to the vaccine joint procurement program, It's an initiative, not a law.

looks like contradictory statements to me...

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

16 hours ago, Tofer said:

PS: The NHS are not the only ones administering the vaccine.

 Really?

 

Who else is doing it then?

The Army, health workers, and volunteers, i.e anyone over the age of 18.

12 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Utter rubbish. The NHS have, and do more than just "physically sticking needles in arms!"

What involvement exactly did the NHS have in the funding, procurement and distribution of vaccines??

The NHS stick needles in arms, manage the appointments to stick needles in arms, train and supervise volunteers to stick needles in arms. What else, please enlighten us?

13 hours ago, 7by7 said:

16 hours ago, Tofer said:

In other words, had we still been tied to the EU's influence, as were all the other 27 states, we would not have been able to make the success, that we did, of the vaccine roll out, which I think you must now admit was a result of Brexit.

More rubbish.

I think the current facts prove my statements.

Or were the EU nations simply happy to prolong the agony to show solidarity within the EU, whilst suffering delays to their recovery, more deaths and more disruption to their businesses?

14 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well nearly 42 for £ where's the pub stool guys saying the £ will hit bottom.

I had one chap tell me the pound would halve in value when we finally left the EU. It appears he was wrong..... Awful news, Brexit was a total disaster.... ????

I see the remainers conspicuously ignore this good news, it must really stick in their craw.

More to come guys, if you show a little patience....

15 hours ago, candide said:

No semantics, facts! 

It's you who is arguing semantics!

You may hold any opinion you like, fact is that the decisions have been made and implemented while UK was still under EU law, and in accordance with EU law.

Make your mind up. It was you who stated;

During the transition period, the EU law applied. As to the vaccine joint procurement program, It's an initiative, not a law.

15 hours ago, Sujo said:

Which the uk made whilst still in eu influence.

 

Is it that difficult to understand?

We were outside the Covid recovery fund arrangements.

Is that so difficult to understand!!

13 minutes ago, candide said:

Are you that obtuse or just pretending to be?

The UK "independent arrangement" has been decided and implemented while EU law still applied in UK, and would have been allowed in the same way without Brexit.

 

As I wrote before, the joint program was not imposed by EU law, it was allowed by EU law. EU countries were allowed not to join.

You're simply arguing semantics now.

The reality is that we made our own decisions as a consequence of being outside the influence of the EU, as an independent nation dealing with the issue in our own way, with our own funding, outside of the EU's finances and control. 

I doubt any EU state that decided to go it's own way would have received any support for the funding of the vaccines, hence they all fell in line with the UvdL's commissions directive, since they will be paying for the Covid fund for many years to come either way.

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Anyway I'm off to the pub.

We look forward with bated breath to tomorrows barstool wisdom.... ????

2 minutes ago, candide said:

So it is proven that the UK policy would have been possible in the EU, because decisions have actually been made in accordance with EU law, at a time UK was still subject to EU law.

Call it what you like, rules, regulations, laws or simply an initiative. The UK outside the EU made independent arrangements, by virtue of the fact we had left and no longer were obliged to fit in with the EU directive.

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Twisting? Trying to nail down your evasiveness would be closer to it.

So you have openly (and wrongly) claimed that the success of the vaccine program would not have been possible while we were in the EU.

 

"The vaccine programme has been established by the government with advance funding and orders for vaccine, well in advance of what would have been possible, and has proved to be so, within the EU."

 

Ergo without Brexit our own vaccine procurement would not have been possible.

 

I and several others have pointed out that it would have been possible because as we were in the transition period its what happened.  Do you understand this crucial detail? We ordered the vaccines while we were effectively still subject to EU rules and regulations.

 

You Brexiteers cannot dine out on the success of the vaccination because Brexit has nothing to do with it.

It is the dedication and professionalism of the NHS which has made it such a success.  

I retract my earlier comment, and accept that there was an implication in my earlier post that we did better outside of the EU, so in hindsight, I accept your comment that I had arguably made it contingent on Brexit. 

The UK government, whether conducting the process in blatant disregard for EU rules, regulations and laws or outside of the EU's influence / control as an initiative, were operating independently of the EU, i.e. Brexit, had orchestrated the procurement and scheduling of the vaccine roll out not the NHS, as I stated.

PS: The NHS are not the only ones administering the vaccine.

Don't get me wrong, I hold the NHS in high esteem, bit they were not the driving force behind funding and acquiring the vaccine and organising it's distribution, only physically sticking needles in arms.

4 hours ago, candide said:

During the transition period, the EU law applied. As to the vaccine joint procurement program, It's an initiative, not a law.

In other words, had we still been tied to the EU's influence, as were all the other 27 states, we would not have been able to make the success, that we did, of the vaccine roll out, which I think you must now admit was a result of Brexit.

4 hours ago, candide said:

During the transition period, the EU law applied. As to the vaccine joint procurement program, It's an initiative, not a law.

Make your mind up, it was law in your last reference;

Quote;

"The same distorted fact again! It has been made while UK was still subject to EU law and in accordance with EU law. So it has proved to be possible within the EU."

Changing the facts again to suit your argument.

13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

 

What you did was try and claim the success of the vaccine roll out is down to Brexit. I and several others have pointed out to you that this is in fact not true. 

I suggest you follow your own advice regarding reading and comprehension. 

There you go again, trying to twist it to suit your agenda....

Show me where I mention Brexit in my post, repeated below?

""The vaccine programme has been established by the government with advance funding and orders for vaccine, well in advance of what would have been possible, and has proved to be so, within the EU.""

This was a response to the post claiming it was all due to the endeavours of the NHS. Brexit was never mentioned.

18 hours ago, candide said:

The same distorted fact again! It has been made while UK was still subject to EU law and in accordance with EU law. So it has proved to be possible within the EU.

18 hours ago, candide said:

EU countries have chosen to follow a common approach rather than compete with each other to get vaccine supplies, and it obviously slowed down the process. However, they chose to join the scheme, and each country could have chosen not to participate.

Quite incorrect, we were in a transition period, and had no sitting MEPs to be able to vote on the subject, if in fact there was one?

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So Brexiteers cured corona ????????????????????????????

I never said they did. Read and comprehend before you respond in future, might be good advice.

22 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

There was nothing forcing countries within the EU to join the EU's joint vaccination program. They did so because they wanted to work together. If we had still been in the EU we could have either joined it or stayed separate.  

Is that so, so why didn't they, when they could see what a hash UvdL was making of it??

Or are they all happy to be waiting at the back of the queue - I don't think so, not from what I hear on the news, with regular criticism and calls for her resignation.....

18 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

It only slowed down the process for bigger countries like Germany or France maybe, who would have had enough clout to procure vaccines themselves. For all the other, much smaller countries, the bundled procurement is a blessing, because they would have ended up at the very end of the queue otherwise, similar to what happened the year before with the procurement of equipment. So if anything it’s the Germans and French that could complain, but then the EU is about solidarity, not to mention that better conditions the EU was able to negotiate given its clout. 

Not so much of a blessing when the EU citizens are so far behind in the roll out of the vaccine.

Hardly better conditions when you're at the back of the queue for vaccines, and not much solidarity in the EU either with many MEPs calling for UvdL's resignation over the failings.

53 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Success of the vaccine role out is due to the professionalism of the NHS. Nothing to do with Brexit or Brexiteers.

Complete and utter rubbish!!

The vaccine programme has been established by the government with advance funding and orders for vaccine, well in advance of what would have been possible, and has proved to be so, within the EU.

4 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Perhaps you could present some evidence to support your view that everything is just dandy.

I didn't make the statement that needs justifying...

38 minutes ago, bannork said:

You may have noted that all the problems of exports and trade with the EU began on January 1st. Now I wonder why that is.

There you again again, changing the subject to avoid the issue.

What I wonder is why you keep avoiding the question? 

Granted it was originally related to 3-2's statement, but you've perpetuated it.

15 hours ago, bannork said:

Your fault for bringing vaccines into a Brexit teething troubles thread . 

I'm sure you would prefer to ignore my full response to your disingenuous comment.

Here it is again just to remind you why it was necessary to introduce it;

It would appear you're attributing everything to Brexit - have you not heard about the Covid pandemic, very convenient for your doom and gloom scenario isn't it?

Would you care to attempt to dispel that theory, or will you just ignore the fact yet again....??

I think you'll then find it was the remainers, and you in particular, who turned it into an assassination of Boris' Covid related performance - not I...

15 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Not too wild and unsubstantiated, apparently:

 

Another, so called expert forcast....

What happened to all these hailed and informed (????) FACTS?