007 RED

9 hours ago, lou62 said:

I've got a Yellow Book, Driver's license and ID card. I've found the ID Card to be basically worthless. A waste of time and money even bothering.

3 hours ago, Maestro said:

 

How much did the ID card cost you?

It cost me 50 Baht, a few minutes to fill in the application form and have my photo taken.  No real hassle.

I recovered the cost the first time I used it to enter Erawan National Park in Kanchanaburi.  I showed them my pink ID card and was given Thai entrance rate.  Saving 200 Baht.

PS.  There was a notice in English at the pay station advising that they no longer accept Thai driving licence or work permit to obtain Thai entrance rate.

1 hour ago, UKJASE said:

Thanks for all your help with this guys - she will appreciate everyone's opinions. 

 

I asked her when her thai passport was issued, and it was issued after she arrived back to Thailand, after a long time away.  So it does not have any exit stamps in it, in fact it has never been used.

 

Will this make it easier just for her to leave on her thai passport, and enter europe on her dutch passport?

 

Also, is there a chance that upon return, she will be stamped out, and not stamped into an onward country (on her thai passport) so the IO will ask to see her other passport, at which time the overstay may show up?

OK your friend has a new (clean) Thai passport, but unfortunately that does not guarantee that she will not encounter a problem when leaving the Kingdom using it.

Regardless of her going through the eGate, or presenting her Thai passport to the IO, the moment that the passport is scanned (the scanner reads the information at the bottom of the photo page between the <<<< >>>>) the immigration system will detect that the Thai passport is not known to the system.  The system will then do a cross-check using the gender code + date of birth + family name + first name(s) against the details held in the immigration database.  Despite the massive size of the database, the cross-check actually only takes a matter of seconds.

As you previously advised, your friends details are the same in both passports, therefore, the system will almost certainly (that is to say greater than 80% chance) identify that there is a Dutch passport in the system having the same personal details.  This will be flagged up on the IO’s monitor who will also be presented with the photo of your friend which was taken when she was admitted to the Kingdom on her Dutch passport.

Sorry to be so pessimistic, but as I said in an earlier post, unfortunately your friend has dropped herself in the proverbial fertiliser and unfortunately there is no easy or set solution to the problem.  Much will depend on the IO, which no one can predict.

If I was in her shoes, I would expect the worse.  That is to say prepare for the possibility of a 20,000 Baht fine for the 11 month overstay and a one year ban in her Dutch passport.  Anything less than that will be a bonus.  As mentioned before, if this does happen she will still be able to return to Thailand but she must ensure that she uses her Thai passport.  Although the Thai and Dutch passports will be linked on the Immigration system, as a Thai citizen she will be not be denied entry when using her Thai passport.

Regarding re-entering the Netherlands with her Dutch passport, that should not be a problem as more and more countries no longer engross passports with entry/exit stamps.

Good luck to your friend and let us know the eventual outcome.

33 minutes ago, Mattd said:

100% agree, we can all speculate, but none us truly know the answer.

I do wonder what would happen if she had previously departed Thailand on her Thai passport and then tried to depart Thailand on her Thai passport via an egate, there surely is a possibility that it would not allow her to depart due to the discrepancy of her technically not being in the country? The office building I work in has a smart card system for entry / exit for the lift lobbies, if the system did not register you going through it (in either direction) then it will not open to let you through again.

In this age of terrorism, then I am not entirely convinced that Governments don't care about the movement of their citizens, especially dual passport holders.

Quite correct about the egate in the scenario you gave.  The moment that she puts her passport onto the scanner the immigration system will flag up a possible problem e.g. previous exit but no entry, and an IO will then take her to one side for further examination/questioning.

40 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I believe you are quoting the correct translation of Section 62. However, I do not think the penalties under Section 62 apply to overstays. They basically are concerned with illegal entry.

 

The penalties for overstay are addressed in Section 81, and are (I believe) only intended to apply to foreigners. I do not think it is possible for Thai citizens to actually be on overstay, unless they are denying their citizenship status. Entering Thailand using a foreign passport does muddy the waters, but I do not think a judge would uphold a fine applicable only to aliens once Thai citizenship was established.

Tim… you are absolutely correct in pointing out that Section 62 penalty deals with illegal entry (including Thai nationals) and not overstay.  My post was in response to another person (Post 18) who introduced Section 62 and then miss-quoted the possible fine, and then said that I was talking nonsense when I pointed out the error.  Sorry if that went off topic.

I think you are also correct in your assumption that a Thai national cannot be charged with overstay.  However, the lady in question entered the Kingdom using her Dutch passport, so technically she is here as a Dutch citizen, not a Thai national.  She may well find that immigration will regard her as a Dutch citizen who has overstayed by 11 months and as such she could be liable to a 20,000 Baht overstay fine and a possible one year ban being stamped in her Dutch passport for overstaying longer than 90 days.

The ban on the Dutch passport will not cause her a problem provided that if she wants to visits the Kingdom again in the future she remembers to uses her Thai Passport.  She will just not be able to use the Dutch one until the ban period has run out.  Also getting a new Dutch passport will not work as the immigration system will quickly link her new passport to the old one.

Regarding your observation that a Judge would be unlikely to impose a fine on a Thai National.  That may possibly be true, but I’m not in a position to comment on that.  However, to make such an appeal would be both costly and time consuming bearing in mind how ‘efficient’ the Thai legal system is.

2 hours ago, realenglish1 said:

It is not an issue since immigration does not care about a Thai who entered the Kingdom......

 

If Thai immigration do not care about a Thai who enters and leaves the Kingdom, then why do they have to go through the immigration check point?

I can assure you that if this lady has been previously checked out of the Kingdom on her Thai passport and then she submits it to the IO on her forthcoming departure, it will be ‘flagged up’ and the IO will no doubt be asking questions as to why she is not showing as having arrived in the Kingdom.

Bear in mind that the Immigration Act (Sections: 11: 18 & 62) can penalise a Thai national who has entered the Kingdom incorrectly or without submitting the correct documentation which can result in a fine not exceeding 20,000Baht.

What the IO will do in this particular case is anyone’s guess.

14 hours ago, paz said:

 

Nonsense. I quoted a translation of the law, should I quote the original in Thai? 

 

Before saying that someone’s post is “nonsense” and stating “I quoted a translation of the law, should I quote the original in Thai?”, you really need to get your facts correct and come down off that high horse.

You stated in Post No. 20 the following:

“Section 62

Whoever fails to comply with the provisions of Sections 11 or 18 paragraph two shall be punished by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht.

If the person committing an offence under paragraph one is a Thai national, the offender will be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand baht.”

In my Post No. 21, I pointed out that the fine for the Thai national is in fact 20,000 Baht and not two thousand (2,000) Baht as you had indicated.

The source of my information concerning the Immigration Act B.E. 2522 is derived from the opening page of this particular forum - Thai visas, residency and work permits forum.  Just scroll down to the information section entitled Laws, regulations, Police Orders, etc. and open it.  Then scroll down to No. 17 – Immigration Act B.E. 2522 English translation, and open the PDF.  You will then see that Section 62 states the following:

“Whoever fails to comply with the provisions of Section 11 or Para.2 of Section 18 shall be punished by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht.

If the person committing an offense under Para.1, holds Thai citizenship he will be punished by a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht”.

If you Google Thai Immigration Act B.E. 2522, you will see a number of other English translations of the Act and they all concur with what I have indicated that the fine shall not exceed 20,000 Baht.

No apology necessary – we all make mistakes.

18 minutes ago, paz said:

Section 62 Whoever fails to comply with the provisions of Sections 11 or 18 paragraph two shall be punished by imprisonment not exceeding two years and a fine not exceeding twenty thousand baht.

If the person committing an offence under paragraph one is a Thai national, the offender will be punished by a fine not exceeding two thousand baht.

 

Sorry to correct you, but the fine for a Thai National is also 20K Baht, they just don't get the possible 2 year imprisonment.

22 minutes ago, paz said:

Do you realize that a Thai cannot be banned from Thailand? And that even if Immigration tries, no judge would "treat her as foreigner", in a court?

Using a foreign passport does not make anyone lose his citizenship, status, and rights!

Note, is not difficult to go to court, these are the "judge review" cases that usually last few minutes when over-stayers are caught then sent to IDC. Immigration does not have the last word, only the Judge has. If you are interested I can point you to the section in the Immigration Act that deals with Thais entering Thailand illegally.

No need to shout! 

I am not suggesting that she will be banned from Thailand as a Thai National or that she will lose her citizenship.

The fact is that she used her Dutch passport to enter the Kingdom and hence the overstay ban will be placed in her Dutch passport which will prevent her from entering the Kingdom again using a Dutch passport for the duration of the ban.   She will, however, still be able to re-enter the Kingdom using her Thai passport.

Yes I would be very interested in what section of the Immigration Act BE2522 deals with Thais entering the Kingdom illegally.

OP… Your friend has got really herself into the fertiliser and unfortunately there is no quick fix solution to her problem.

As I understand it from your original post, she entered Thailand using her Dutch passport and has now overstayed 11 months.  Your friend is a Thai national and also holds a Thai passport.

Because your friend entered the Kingdom on her Dutch passport, Thai immigration will treat her as a foreign national, regardless of the fact that she is a Thai national and also holds a Thai passport.  Therefore, if she surrenders to immigration and leaves Thailand on her Dutch passport she is going to be liable to a 20K Baht fine plus a one year ban.  If she stays another month the ban will be increased to 3 years.

If she tries to leave using her Thai passport much will depend upon whether she has used it before to enter/leave the Kingdom.  If she used it to leave the Kingdom previously, then the moment the IO scans her passport they will see that your friend has never re-entered the Kingdom and the IO will be asking questions as to how/when she entered the Kingdom.  Odds are, she will have to then admit she entered on her Dutch passport and has overstayed – outcome fine & ban.

If your friend has never used her Thai passport previously to enter/leave the Kingdom she will be able to use it and leave without a problem.  However, she will not be able to return to Thailand using her Dutch passport (even a new one) as the moment the IO scans the passport the IO will see that your friend has a previous entry record but no record of leaving Thailand. This will trigger a lot of very awkward questions.

As someone has already suggested, she will have to bite the bullet and accept that she is going to be fined and get a banned stamp in her Dutch passport.  Next time she should use her Thai passport to enter the Kingdom.

1 hour ago, Headgame said:

Can a third party transfer funds to my BKK bank account in Thailand by transferring funds through the BKK New York branch?

If I wanted to, my three UK pensions providers could transfer my pensions directly to my BB in BKK.  I have chosen not to do use this option as each transfer will incur a transfer fee of 20 GBP.  Instead my pensions are deposited into my UK bank account and I do one transfer online when I require.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUK/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUK.aspx

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

What kind of Foreign Currency account do you have, Savings, Fixed deposit or Current?

 

You obviously chose the - Specifying a foreign bank as Paying Bank (Advance Payment)
0.25%, or 500 baht min fee, no maximum fee.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBankThai/Documents/Site Documents/Interest Rates/FeesFCD_Table5_151116_En.pdf

FYI… My BB account is a Saving Foreign Currency Deposit Account (SFDA). 

I do an online transfer of funds from my UK bank account to BB London in GBP.  BB London then transfer the GBP funds (less their transfer fee of 20GBP) to my BB BKK SFCDA. 

Upon receiving the transferred funds (GBP) BB BKK charge an additional transfer fee of between 200 and 500 BHT depending upon the amount that I have transferred.  Transfer is normally cleared next day.

When I wish to withdraw funds from my BB BKK account I can do so in either GBP or in THB.  If I opt for THB then BB BKK use the TT Rate for that day/time.

Details http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/TransferingFunds/TransferringIntoThailand/ReceivingFundsfromUK/Pages/ReceivingFundsfromUK.aspx

8 minutes ago, bttao said:

Thanks all you guys for the help...

Another easy question:

Can the funds deposited in a Foreign Currency Account be used towards the Immigration 800K  requirement for Thai Retirement Visa/yearly extension; or it has to be in Baht?

Immigration will accept your FCA in US$ as funds for extension.  You will need to request a letter from the bank (charge 100BHT) confirming funds available.  Best to get this the day before you go to immigration.  Imigration may also ask to see your passbook.

6 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That is for a standard Thai savings account.

(Even so, your wrong. The 200-500 baht fee is not a deposit fee, it's a conversion fee $ to BAHT)

 

The OP asked about a Foreign currency account and my information is correct.

Read the links provided to BKK if you have any doubts

I've had a Foreign Currency Account (GBP) with Bangkok Bank for ten years and transfer GBP from the UK to my  GBP FCA here in BKK on regular basis.

BB London charge me 20GBP to make the transfer and BB BKK then charge me and fee when the funds are deposited to my FCA.  When I want to change GBP to THB they give me the TT rate and no charge is made.

Just now, teacherofwoe said:

Thanks. So my best next move is to contact Immigration Bangkok?

Yes... The IT centre is there and only they have the ability to correct the data.

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's transferred in $ and held in $.

It's transferred in $ and held in $.

You exchange to baht when ready at 0.25% maximum fee 500 baht.

 

Interest rates vary depending on the type of Foreign currency account.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBank/PersonalBanking/DailyBanking/Accounts/ForeignCurrencyAccount/Pages/Default.aspx

 

http://www.bangkokbank.com/BangkokBankThai/Documents/Site Documents/Interest Rates/FeesFCD_Table5_151116_En.pdf

"It's transferred in $ and held in $." ..... Correct

"It's transferred in $ and held in $."  ......  Wrong - when funds are transferred from USA BB HQ in Thailand make a deposited charge of between 200 and 500 Baht depending upon the amount being transferred.

"You exchange to baht when ready at 0.25% maximum fee 500 baht."  ..... Wrong - No fee is charge when you exchange to THB.  When you want to transfer from US$ to THB BB uses the TT rate which is better than the standard currency exchange rate.

Above info based upon Bangkok Bank details.

I have been transferring funds on a regular basis from my account in the UK to BB in BKK for 6 years plus.   Having today discovered through TV that BB that they now require registration to facilitate such transfers I contacted BB London by email with a couple of questions.

The following reply came back within 10 minutes.

Dear 007 RED

Thank you for your email.  I can see from our records that you are a long-term customer and have been sending funds from the same UK account for a few years. 

Therefore, provided you do not change that account, you do not need to register.

If you change the UK account that the funds are coming from, then you will need to register.

Regards

Christine Cownley

Admin. Officer

Customer Service

Bangkok Bank Pcl.

33 St. Mary Axe

London EC3A 8BY

Tel: +44 (0)207 929 4422 Ext. 2214

Fax: +44 (0)207283 3988

www.bangkokbank.com

A follow up email arrived 20 minutes later stating that they may ask for proof of ID and address etc. in the future, but at the moment they are concentrating of new customers

I have been transferring funds on a regular basis from my account in the UK to BB in BKK for 6 years plus.   Having today discovered through TV that BB that they now require registration to facilitate such transfers I contacted BB London by email with a couple of questions.

The following reply came back within 10 minutes.

Dear  007 RED

Thank you for your email.  I can see from our records that you are a long-term customer and have been sending funds from the same UK account for a few years. 

Therefore, provided you do not change that account, you do not need to register.

If you change the UK account that the funds are coming from, then you will need to register.

Regards

Christine Cownley

Admin. Officer

Customer Service

Bangkok Bank Pcl.

33 St. Mary Axe

London EC3A 8BY

Tel: +44 (0)207 929 4422 Ext. 2214

Fax: +44 (0)207283 3988

www.bangkokbank.com

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

.....It would be good idea to get a Tourist Visa this time to avoid extra scrutiny.

Having a valid TV in does not guarantee that you wont be scrutinised on arrival or admitted into the Kingdom.  Both factors are at the discretion of the immigration officer.

As others have indicated you should be allowed to enter the Kingdom as your overstay did not incur a ban.  That said, don't be surprised when you arrive and the immigration officer scans your passport that he/she asks you a few questions and may want to see some proof of funds to support your stay, hotel bookings and a departure ticket.

Someone might suggest that you get a new passport in order to avoid any problems.  Don't bother as the immigration system is very good at matching new/old passports and displaying your history to the immigration officer.

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Only 1st of January is a holiday unless they make the 2nd a substitute for new years eve.

The Cabinet yesterday (07/11/17) approved that the New Year holiday will be the 1st & 2nd January 2018.

Forgive me, but I was under the impression that this forum was dedicated to matters concerning Thai visas, residency and work permits not an agony aunt forum. 

I guess ladyboyHaHaHa is laughing at all the comments. 

Come on folks, his/her question was answered in the first couple of posts. Time to put this one to bed.

OP… you really need to do your homework on shipping personal items to Thailand, and don’t take what your local shipping agent tells you as being gospel. 

Thai customs officers are paid a bonus (x% of the amount of duty they collect), so it’s in the personal interest to ‘sting’ you for as much as they can.

A few years ago a good friend of mine was coming to live in Thailand with his wife on a retirement extension and they shipped most of their treasured possessions over.  The shipping agent assured them that if they listed the goods as second hand and gave a low cost figure for the items they would only be liable to a small amount of duty or a contribution to the 'tea fund'.  When the container arrived in Thailand the local representative contacted them and arranged to meet them at the port so as to complete the formalities.

When they arrived they were presented with a horrendous import and VAT bill from customs.  In fact that bill amounted to substantially more than they had estimated the second hand value of the goods.  It appeared that customs don’t work on second hand values, they work on 'as new' book prices.

To add insult to injury the calculations are done as follows:

The total cost of the items (as per customs reckoning) plus the cost of shipping plus the cost of insurance.  That figure is then used to calculate the import duty at x% which is then added to the first  total.  VAT at 7% is then charge against the grand total.

The local representative tried to negotiate a lower figure by arranging a donation to the 'tea fund', but the officer was having none of it.

My friend eventually decided to call it a day and abandoned the shipment as the costs were so prohibitive.  They also learned later that their items would be actioned off but they were unable to find out when/where that took place.  No doubt the customs officers are the only ones privileged to that information in order to buy the stuff cheaply and resell later.

To say my friends were 'shafted' is an understatement.

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

I got married in 2008 shipped the goods in 2009 when I sold my house, didn't get an extension of stay until 2014, spent the first 6 years here on a multi non imm O.

My wife hadn't been to the UK so all in my name. My wife made all the arrangements this end and I just had to deal with the dxxxhead in the UK. The service itself was excellent, packers were excellent, nothing broken. Container turned up exactly when they said.

Sanyf… Things have changed substantially since 2008.  Now you will find (with a few exceptions) any good being shipped into the Kingdom are subject to import duty and VAT, regardless of them being new or second hand.

The only exception are if a Thai person has been living outside the Kingdom for 12 months or more, they are allowed to bring back a reasonable quantity of household items.  The other exception is if a non-Thai person is coming to work in the Kingdom they also can bring a reason quantity of personal household items with them.  They need to show a work permit and valid non-B visa or extension .