007 RED

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

I thought I saw someone here who installed 3 phase solar. 

I thought it was red007 but think I'm mistaken.

Sorry...... Not guilty.... I'm definitely on single phase supply.

1 hour ago, MJCM said:

Another question, this time about NO-Export

 

Suppose you have NO-Export turned on, and your house is only using let's say 300W, but the Panels are producing (again let's say) 1500W.

 

Where does those approx 1200W (difference between usage and producing) go instead of going into the grid?

As @Crossy has indicated above, it really never gets generated.  My inverter (Sofar 2.2kW GTI) can be set to export from zero to 100%.  I have it set to zero and activate 'NO EXPORT' a couple of days prior to meter reader visiting.  During the 'NO EXPORT' period the Current Transformer (CT) which is clamped over the live wire between the consumer box in the house and the meter on the pole outside is sending feedback to the inverter as to how much power we are using in the house.  The inverter then adjust itself to only produce enough power such that no power is exported thus making the meter spin backwards.

 

Take a look at the graph below produced from the system's monitoring facility the day before the meter reader came.  The system was in 'NO EXPORT' mode, and shows power production (blue) against power consumption (red). 

 

You will notice that at times the consumption 'hits the roof' and the system tries to match that demand but fails abysmally because there was not enough sunshine hitting the photocells.   You will also see that at other times the power production equals the power consumption even when there was good sunshine (mid-day) thus illustrating that power production is matching power consumption.

I have a small scale solar system installed on my car port roof.  It comprises 4 x 415W half cut mono panels linked to a 2.2kW PEA approved grid tied inverter.  This was a DIY installed project, so no labour costs involved just my time and effort. Total hardware cost was 28,000 THB. 

 

 

 

The system has been running for almost a year now and during this time it has produced 2,555 units, effectively reducing my pre-installation monthly electricity bills by 75%.  This represents a saving of 10,731 THB (based upon 4.2 THB per unit which was the price I paid prior to the system’s installation). 

 

Hence my ROI should be in the order of (28,000 / 10,731) = 2.6 years.  Obviously if the price per unit rises, the payback time will be shorter ????.

 

If I had a company to do the installation, then the labour costs would be in the order of 100,000 THB, and that's without getting approval from my local PEA.  If I wanted a PEA 'approved installer’ to install and obtain certification, then the cost would soar to 200,000 plus THB.  In both cases the cost of the hardware would be extra and no doubt considerably more than the 28,000 THB that I paid.

 

As you will see, there is a tremendous difference between the cost of my DIY install and that of a PEA 'approved' installation.  Unfortunately, the bureaucracy* and cost of obtaining approval for a system, is no incentive whatsoever for most people here in Thailand to go solar.

 

Unfortunately there is no way that Somchai, on a basic minimum wage, is going to be able to afford the initial capital outlay for a simple system which could meet their basic electric needs.

 

*We Brits invented bureaucracy, Thais have just perfected it.

 

On 9/21/2022 at 8:28 AM, Bandersnatch said:

Probably not up to date:

 

https://solar-thailand.com/pdf/PEA.pdf

 

13 hours ago, Thaifish said:

To install legally on your roof it is not hard as long as the Inverter is one of the approved type by PEA. There is a list of approved inverters. I don't have a link to the approved inverters at the moment which you can find online....

FYI.... The attached PDF is an up-to-date list of PEA approved inverters... look forward to seeing their approved list of solar panels and mountings ????.... I wonder if mine and @Crossy mountings will be on the list ????

PEA-InverterList-4-2565.pdf

15 hours ago, Misab said:

Thank you all for your comments, they are really appreciated and a great help. Some of you talked about PEA which made me search on the internet. For those of you there are interested in updated rules. I found this:

https://www.kunini.com/solar-rooftop-update/

 

 

Thanks for posting this article/advert.  I have to say I'm a little bit skeptical for a few reasons.

 

Firstly, it would have been nice if the author of the article/advert had provided a link to the specific details of this government announcement e.g.  when was it made, which government department made it and details of the new/modified regulations.  Having searched the internet I've not been unable to find any other reference to such change, other than this article.

 

Secondly, reading the article/advert and comparing it with the current regulations concerning the supply of electricity to the grid which falls under the 'umbrella' of EGAT, which if I'm correct was introduced in 2013, there is in fact very little difference in the basic requirements concerning the installation of solar systems, except for the 'special' requirements which I've pointed out bellow.

 

Thirdly, according to the article/advert:

"solar equipment needs to be verified and approved by the PEA/MEA; this includes Solar panels, inverters and mounting structures".  So now the PEA/MEA will not only have a list of approved inverters, but a list of solar panels and mounting fixtures which can be used. 

 

"The roof structure needs to be checked/verified by a Thai structural engineer to ensure that it can support the load".  This will be good fun.  Finding a licenced structural engineer in Thailand will be like finding a needle in a haystack, and if you do find one its going to cost an arm and a leg to get him/her to certify the structure.

 

"... once installed it needs to be registered with the Tessaban...."  Why?  What has the local authority got to do with someone having a solar panel system on their roof.

 

The above 'new' requirements, in my opinion, are not going to encourage people to go solar in the same way that the original regulations did nothing.

 

 

 

On 8/21/2022 at 4:37 PM, Crossy said:

 

This is something I've pondered in the past.

 

There is no doubt they can monitor the HV trunk supplies, but there are no CTs on our village transformer (on LV or HV) so down to village level is unlikely.

 

Now whether our few kW of solar is noticed (it would be seen as a load reduction rather than actual -ve power unless everyone was dead and using no juice at all) in amongst the big scheme of things ...

 

And if they do notice are they going to expend manpower going looking? (other than the man on the ground meter readers). I did note that our meter chap came rather later in the day than usual this last time, could just have been running late.

 

I've decided it's not worth worrying about, if they are sufficiently concerned that they are going looking then so be it.

 

It wouldn't beyond possibility that they could hire some drone operators to go looking, this is being done in the US where certain states actively discourage even off-grid solar - the supply authorities make less $$$.

Sorry to butt in on this interesting post, but there is something than may be worth considering, albeit fairly remote here in Thailand.

 

I think that its fairly unlikely that the PEA will get a drone to do a search to find any untoward solar systems.   They would have to know where to look in the first place.   However there is something that a lot of local authorities (planning Departments) in the UK have adopted as it helps to ensure that properties are taxed within the correct banding. 

 

A friend of mine who live in a very remote rural area decided to have a conservatory built at the rear of the house.  The builder (reputable firm) advised that the size of the addition was below that which required planning permission, so construction went ahead.  I should add that because of the remote location, the conservatory can't be seen from the nearby road, or any neighbors.

 

Approximately 18 months after the conservatory was constructed, my friend's wife who was at home at the time, had a visit from a local authority planning officer.  He advised her that he was aware that there had been an addition to the property and that their records showed that no application for planning permission had been submitted.  He asked her to show him to the rear of the house where he inspected, and took photos of, the conservatory. 

 

During the conversation with the planning officer, my friend's wife noticed that he had photos of the property which she recognized as satellite images.  She asked him where he had got them.  The officer advised that they (the local authority) purchase high quality digital images every 6 months from the same company which Google use for their low grade satellite images.  He explained that the digital images are fed into an AI system which compares the current image with the image obtained 6 months previously.  The system spews out any anomalies which are then investigated.  Hence his visit.  As it turned out the builder was correct, the conservatory was under the size which required planning permission.

 

Apparently the cost of the high grade digital satellite images is not that great, but I very much doubt that the local PEA will cotton onto this survey method.

 

Take a look at Google maps of your area, and switch to satellite image.  You may be surprised.  Spot the difference in the images below.

The above Google Map image was taken early 2021, the one below taken earlier this year

 

Have you spotted the solar panels.... 4 of them on the blue roof (white with black dots).

7 hours ago, PR3 said:

 

Anyhoo back to the CT clamp. I was hoping to fit it inside the house consumer unit but there's insufficient space to get the damned thing around the live cable. 

And I'm more than reluctant to start messing around with hot wiring.

Only other place I can find access is the inspection/connection cover on the outside wall.

The thing is.....its about a 20 metre run to the inverter once I've negotiated corners, obstacles and placed it in trunking. 

Will that sort of length affect the performance of the CT device runnning in 2 x 0.5 outdoor cable (i bought 8 metres today so i could still use that up to the switch maybe)?

Otherwise I don't know.

Also the switch used to isolate the clamp, should it be a 2 pole or is a single pole switch okay on the live (I guess)  only reason I ask is that I have 2 single pole in stock.

And ...lol...so many questions. To identify the live rather than the neutral would a clamp meter suffice?

 

Hi @PR3... No problem...this is what the forum is for - sharing info and experiences.

 

 As indicated in my previous post it must be located somewhere between the consumer unit and the supply meter and it must be attached to the live supply wire.   Yes a clamp meter will help identify the live wire.  That said, if you put it on the wrong wire, or the arrow on the clamp is facing the house, the CT just wont work and your inverter will export all the time. So if that happens you just swap the clamp to the other wire and make sure the arrow is pointing toward the meter.

 

Initially I thought that I could clamp the CT onto the live cable on the pole outside the house and then run my CT connecting cable along with the few communications cables which pass our car port where the inverter is mounted.  I was advised that if the communications companies spot a non communications cable they are likely to cut it and report it to the local PEA because they (the communications companies) have to pay a 'rental' fee to the PEA to use their poles etc.

 

So I ended up locating the CT clamp in the roof space where the cables come in to the house from the pole.  I then ran the connecting CT cable across the roof space and across a 4 meter gap to the car port.  The CT cable being secured at both the house and car port.

 

The approximate length of connecting cable between the CT clamp and the inverter connection is about 30 meters.  When I discussed the wire size with @Crossy, he informed me that he has used 2 x 0.5mm² cable in the past without any problem, but with his current set up he used 2 x 1mm² cable for about the same length (30 meters).  So because of the cable having to cross the gap between the house and the car port I opted for the 2 x 1mm² cable and this has worked fine.

 

The light switch that I used was a single pole switch (big enough for her in doors to use).  It just need to open and close the circuit between the CT clamp and the inverter.  Remember.... when the switch is in the 'OPEN' position your inverter will EXPORT, and when closed it will NOT EXPORT.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

 

PS.... Just seen that @Crossy has also replied.. he's an early bird too.

6 hours ago, PR3 said:

 

I notice Crossy and 007RED have a switch fitted to stop export.

Not sure how it's configured and have yet to ask.

But I suppose fitting one is likely a good idea.

Main thing is as you so rightly mention is not to get nabbed.

 

Yep..... you definitely want to make sure that your meter reader does not see the disc spinning backwards at a hundred mile an hour.

 

The first task is to be aware on what day(s) your meter reader comes.  If you're not aware, take a look at your past bills as this will give the meter reading date, or if you go to the PEA website you can obtain details of past readings for about a year or more.  I think you will find that the meter reader normally comes within a couple of days 'window' so its best to power down until you get your system set up to not export.

 

The first thing that you will need is a CT Clamp.  Some models of Sofar inverters provide this in the box.  If yours doesn't then you can get one via Shopee https://shopee.co.th/????ยอดขายอันดับ1-CT-กันย้อน-ตัวกันย้อน-1P-Grid-tie-On-grid-SOFAR-อินเวอเตอร์-กริดไทล์-ออนกริด-MPPT-Solar-โซล่าเซลล์-i.12941857.7171127309?xptdk=8b960a1c-d7a2-4435-9a63-4d0acf5fa17b

 

This needs to be clamped over the Positive supply cable coming from your meter to the consumer box in the house.  Note... it has a direction arrow engraved on the body of the clamp which must face towards the meter.

 

The wires attached to the CT clamp are then connected to your CT input connection on the inverter.  You will then need to set your inverter "REACTIVE" setting to zero.  Don't ask why they have called it reactive as I don't know, but it's the setting which dictates how much power can be fed into the grid.

 

With the CT clamp in place and the reactive setting set to zero, your inverter will not export, it will only produce enough (or less) power as is being used in the house.  If you put a simple switch into the line from the CT clamp to the inverter, when the switch is open the inverter will export, when close it will not export.  Its then a case of remembering when to turn off your export before the meter reader comes.

 

I initially did this using a simple light switch housed in a box a shown below.

 

I have subsequently adopted @Crossy NO EXPORT device which allows me to control the export facility via the internet as shown in the screen shot below.

 

 

I hope this helps and good luck with rest of your project.

 

5 hours ago, unheard said:

Let's get real here.

The OP is not building a new house!

There are lots of suggestions mentioned in this thread that will require a major capital investment.

Just to save a few baht on the already small electrical bill?

As I mentioned in my post above, my small scale DIY solar system comprising 4 x 415W panels linked into a 2.2kW GTI cost 28,000THB and is producing about 7 units a day, that equates to approximately 11,000THB a year, which means that the system will have paid for itself in 2.5 years (sooner if they put the price of electricity up) and everything there after is a nice reward on the investment.

 

Ask yourself a simple question.  How much will your bank give you in interest on 28K THB in a savings account?  I bet it wont be 11K THB per annum.

@Custard boy

 

FYI.....  Way back in 2019, whilst trawling through what was then Thai Visa I came across an interesting thread entitled “How about a solar car port on a budget”

The thread rapidly expanded with helpful contributions from many forum members who shared Crossy’s interest, achievements and the odd disappointment.

 

I confess to having no previous experience of solar systems and a fairly basic knowledge of electrical systems dating back to my days at Coventry Polytechnic some 50 plus years ago.  In fact, I would happily describe myself as a total nerd when it comes to solar systems.  That said, DIY seems to be in my DNA and Crossy’s thread inspired me to take the ‘bull-by-the-horns’ and consider doing something similar.

 

We (my wife and I) had a car port constructed in 2018 on land that we purchased adjacent to our house.  From the information derived from Crossy’s thread, the car port was ideally positioned in so far that one side of the roof was South facing and inclined was about 150.  Most importantly it was not shaded during the day, therefore, any solar panels mounted on the roof should (in theory) capture maximum sunlight during the day.

 

OK, so I was inspired by Crossy’s thread, but what was the motivation for me wanting to construct a small scale grid tied solar system on our car port roof?

 

The cost of the electricity in Thailand is relatively cheap (especially when compared to the current cost in the UK), and my wife and I aren’t heavy consumers.  Our average monthly bill being around 1,000THB.  So, cost savings wasn’t really a major ‘driver’.

 

Was it because going ‘green’ or ‘carbon neutral’ and saving the planet was the right thing to do?  No not really.  The amount of electricity we use is relatively small so it’s unlikely to make a massive difference to the world’s carbon footprint.  That said, every drop of CO2 less should help.

 

Oh, and one forum member suggested that saving just a few Baht a month was ‘penny pinching’.  Well, if you consider the pathetic interest rate that you get from most bank savings accounts, compared to the potential cost saving per year generated by a solar system, solar out performs the interest rate by far, so I think it’s fair to say solar is in fact a shrewd long term investment.

 

I think that the real motivation for me was that at the age of 74, designing, installing and commissioning a grid tied solar system, albeit a small one, was a great challenge.  Throughout my life, I have always enjoyed the challenges which have been ‘thrown’ at me.  Any long term financial payback, or contribution towards assisting the world to become carbon neutral would just be an incidental bonus so far as I was concerned.

 

I ended up designing a small scale solar system on the car port roof with the ambition of reducing our monthly electric bill by no more than 75%.  The installation comprises 4 x 415W Half-Cut monocrystalline solar panels linked to a 2.2kW grid tied inverter.

 

 

In theory the panels (under ideal laboratory conditions) should be capable of producing 1,660W, but unfortunately we aren’t living a laboratory and in reality they can be expected to produce somewhere around 1,200W, which with good sunshine for around 6 hours per day will yield approximately 7 units .  The graph below (from the system's monitoring facility) shows the solar panel output on a recent 'good day' when it achieved just over 8 units. 

 

 

The system cost me 28,000 THB (DIY installation) and it’s been running for almost a year now.  As originally planned, the system has been reducing our electric bills by around 70% a month.  I anticipate payback on the initial investment will be around 2.5 years - shorter if the price of electricity is increased.  As I said earlier, a shrewd little investment. 

 

A few words of caution

 

Firstly, it should be noted that the electric authorities (MEA or PEA) will not approve a DIY grid tied installation.  According to their policies, all solar system installations which are connected to the grid must be undertaken by one of their approved installers and it must have an electronic meter fitted.  The system must be subsequently certified by one of their engineers.

 

The cost of having a system installed and approved is very expensive, and the payback for any power which the system might feedback into the grid is very low (approximately half that of the normal purchasing price).

 

Secondly, if you DIY install a grid tied solar system and have a spinning disc type meter, any excess power produced by the system can potentially be fed back into the grid and make the disc spin backwards thus reducing the number of units used.  This practice is frowned upon by the electric authorities and if discovered (usually by the meter reader) they (MEA/PEA) will at best replace the meter with an electronic one which prevents ‘spin back’ or at worse they may disconnect the supply and demand that the solar system’ be removed and/or impose a fine.

 

Thirdly, if you create a system that constantly produces negative meter readings, that is to say the new reading is less than the previous reading, this will most certainly ring alarm bells within the MEA/PEA office, who undoubtedly will send an inspector to investigate the meter, which could result in the problems that I’ve described above.

 

I hope this helps in your endeavour to reduce your electricity bill.  Good luck. 

@Pink7....  FYI..

I adopted a slightly different approach for mounting my panels.  I don't have access to a disc cutter, pedestal drilling machine  or welding equipment, so I had to think of an alternative way to mount the panels onto the corrugated cement tiles of the car port roof.

 

I opted to a 'bridge' type mounting solution as shown below.

 

The mounts are made from 1.2mm stainless steel which are bolted down to the metal structure of the car port roof.  They save a lot of weight.  Made for me by a local tinsmith from off cuts @ 50 THB each.

 

A small coat of clear silicon was applied to the underside of each bracket to help prevent any water ingression via the mounting bolts. 

 

Great advantage of stainless steel is that it won't rust and doesn't need painting = less maintenance.

Been in service for 10 months and no problems with wind.