007 RED

For me, it's that time of the month again when the meter reader calleth. 

 

Good news... The FT discount is still being applied, as can be seen from the screen shot of the bill which popped through the letter box about 15 minutes ago... 

Once again, despite fluctuating weather conditions during the past month, our small scale GTI system managed to produce a reasonable 192 units which represented 73% of our household needs during the month.  As can be seen from the bill above, we only needed to purchase 73 units from our local PEA this month... 

 

 

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

"According to Solar Energy UK, solar panel performance falls by 0.34 percentage points for every degree that the temperature rises above 25C." ????

The efficiency drop which they quote is about right for most solar panels, bearing in mind that the tests to establish the output rating for panel will have been done under laboratory conditions with a precise light source projected perpendicularly onto the the photo cell which is maintained at precisely 25^oC.

 

What they seem to forget is that in the real world although the ambient temperature is say 25^oC, the actual temperature of the panel can in fact be considerably higher due to the panel absorbing heat radiated by the sun.

 

Late last year I was concerned that my system didn't seem to be performing as well as I expected.  In theory my 4 x 415W panels should be capable of producing 1,660W when the sun is at its highest point (e.g. mid day) with no clouds, but I was lucky if the system was producing 1,400W, which represents an efficiency loss of  approximately 16%.

 

I decided to do a none scientific test.  At mid day there was good strong sunshine with no clouds/haze.  The ambient temperature in the shade (under the car port) was 30^oC.  I climbed onto the roof of the car port and using an 'cheap' electronic temperature gun (same type used to measure people's temperature during the Covid lockdown) I took a number of readings pointing the gun close to the glass of the panels.  I have attached below a photo of the lowest reading.

 

As will be seen above, the temperature of the panel(s) is shown at just over 63^oC.  This being 38^oC above the panel's laboratory test figure of 25^oC.  My panels have a temperature coefficient = -0.37%/^oC.  Hence, 38 x 0.37 indicates a 14% reduction in efficiency, which accounts for the lower output from the panels.

 

So its fair to say that a nice sunny day can actually decrease the efficiency of the panels.

 

Well, its that time of the month again.  Meter reading day!  The guy has just been and dropped our bill into the post box.

 

The good news is that the Ft discount is still being applied as can be seen from the screen shot of the bill below.

As far as my small scale system is concerned, despite the fluctuating weather condition over the past billing month, it has managed to produce 192 units, which represents 72% of our household usage, leaving us to purchase just 74 units from our local PEA as can be seen from the graph below.

 

According to the system's monitoring facility, my small scale system has been running for almost 18 months, during which time it has produced 4,920 units.  Which based upon the total cost per unit on the day that I switched the system on, it has knocked 20,700 THB off our electricity bills.  Based upon this, I estimate that the system will have paid for itself in just over 2 years.  A reasonable ROI.

11 hours ago, TimeMachine said:

I'm wondering why you need all that steel to raise the solar panels. Couldn't you have used  4 x L brackets of the appropriate dimensions for each panel?

One of the main considerations when mounting solar panels is the need to ensure that, given their size, they are securely held to whatever structure they are going to mounted to, and that they aren't going to blow away in the slightest breeze.

 

If your referring to @Crossy original post, then I suspect that he decided to use steel box section as it was both readily available and considerably cheaper than using proprietary off-the-shelf aluminium mounts/supports.

 

When I designed my small scale system (4 x 415W PVs to be located on my carport roof), I didn't have the power tools needed to cut, drill and weld the steel box sections as per @Crossy original design.  So I opted for a simple 'bridge' design to lift and hold the PVs above the corrugated roof profile thus allowing for air circulation beneath the PVs to help cool them.  The 'bridges' are securely bolted down onto the carport roof structure and they weigh considerably less than the steel design originally used by @Crossy.  The 'bridges' were produced by a local tinsmith from 2mm stainless steel at considerably less cost than purchasing standard aluminium mounting fixtures.

 

 

 

 

I would endorse @Crossy comments above regarding using you 'parking structure' for mounting your PVs etc if that is possible/practical.  

 

I have a small scale grid tied system comprising 4 x 415W half cut mono panels connected in series to a 2kW GTI.  The panels are mounted on our carport roof which just happens to face almost due South, with a 15^o slope (approximately), which is almost an ideal setup.

 

 

The GTI is located under the carport roof, as shown in the photos below.

 

 

FYI.... The cost of the hardware for my system (DIY installation) was 28,000 THB, give or take a few THB.

 

As will be seen from the photos above, there is enough space on the carport roof to hold far more PVs.  I estimate that it could hold 12.  That said, when I designed the system (some 2 years ago), I set a target of reducing our electric bills by 75% per month.  OK, my wife and I are not heavy electric users and we only run our ACs (living room and bedroom) when the humidity exceeds 70% - they've been running 'overtime' recently due to high heat and humidity but the system is still on target.

 

During the past 19 months our small scale system has achieved our bill reduction objective, and all being well it will have paid for itself in just under 2.5 years.

 

Good luck with your proposed project.

33 minutes ago, streetlite said:

What kind of savings do you recoup from this setup?

As at 12:00 Hrs today, my small scale system has produced 4,460kWh of power since it was first turned on 18 months ago.

 

Based upon the unit cost of electricity on the day the system was turned on (4.2 THB per unit), the system has saved us 18,730 THB on our electric bills.

 

As I've mentioned in my post above, the system cost 28,000 THB, so I estimate the ROI will be approximately 2.5 years.  That said, given the increase in the cost of electricity the ROI is likely to be nearer 2 years.

 

How many savings accounts/investments will pay you 18,730 THB interest on 28,000 THB, in 18 months?

On 4/20/2023 at 4:19 PM, DJ54 said:

Red thanks for the detailed information. Not knowing much about solar and where to buy hardware to do DIY … I’d go with a set-up/size similar to yours… any suggestions? Have prices for hardware increased or about the same?
 

The current lecky bills is 25% more than the usual over last 2 years. 
Think it’s time to offset some with solor…

 

Thanks 

As requested, I done a little research and as expected the costs of the hardware used in my small scale solar installation 18 months ago has risen.

 

Inverter  Sofar   2200TL-G3 Single Phase Grid Tied Inverter

A search via Google at the time showed multiple suppliers within Thailand.  I opted for a company called Chang-Store.com. based in Chai Nat.  Their price was 9,500 THB which was one of the lowest at the time and included delivery by DHL.  Because this model of inverter does not come with a current transformer (CT) in the box, they provided one FOC.

 

Although the company still has its own website, they now also have a presence now on Shopee.  Their current list price on both their own website and Shopee is now 12,900 THB, but I don’t know if this includes delivery or if they will still include the CT free of charge..

 

So, inverter is now 3,400 THB more expensive.

 

Solar Panels    Sunpal   SP415-72H Monocrystalline Half-Cell

A search on Google at the time indicated several suppliers of this make/model of solar panel on Shopee and Lazada, with a price ranging from 4,000 to 4,500 THB, which did not include delivery. 

 

During a trip into BKK one day I noticed a shop (Roove Solar) that had recently opened and were displaying solar equipment, so my better half and I paid them a visit a few days later.  As it happened, they stocked the make/model that I was interested in and their price being 4,000 THB per unit.  My better half managed to get them to discount the price to 3,800 THB each, plus free delivery, if we cash purchased the 4 panels I required.

 

The shop is still open.  However, they have Facebook and Shoppe presence which only shows a limited product range so I’m not able to give their current price of the make/model of solar panels.  A google search for the make/model of solar panels now shows a price range around 5,200 THB plus delivery costs.

 

So, the solar panels are now appear to be about 1,800 THB each more expensive.

 

Mounting Brackets

20 off, 1.2mm thick stainless steel were made by local 'tinsmith' from off cuts @ 50 THB each.

 

I’m not sure if I could get them for the same price today as at the he gave us a very good discount due to the fact that we had recently ordered a large number of bespoke stainless steel cupboards and double sink unit for our washroom.  I have estimated that the cost today would be approximately 2,000 THB.

 

Ancillaries

Isolator boxes (appropriate circuit breaker + surge arrestor), cable, MC4 plugs all ordered online via Shoppe.  Cost approximately 2,300 THB.  Looking up the items today indicates a total price increase of approximately 400 THB.

 

Cost at Time of Installation			Cost Today
Inverter	X1	9,500	12,900
Solar Panels	X4	15,200	20,800
Mounting Bracket	X20	1,000	2,000
Ancillaries	Various	2,300	2,700
TOTAL COST		28,000	38,400

 

As shown above, the cost of hardware for my installation have increased by 10,400 THB.  The biggest increase being the cost of the solar panels, which could well be due to the world shortage of silicon chips.

 

Obviously using Google you may well be able to find cheaper alternatives.

 

I hope this helps and good luck.

39 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Red thanks for the detailed information. Not knowing much about solar and where to buy hardware to do DIY … I’d go with a set-up/size similar to yours… any suggestions? Have prices for hardware increased or about the same?
 

The current lecky bills is 25% more than the usual over last 2 years. 
Think it’s time to offset some with solor…

 

Thanks 

NO problem... glad to help.

 

I'm not sure on today's prices of hardware, so give me a few days and I'll do a bit of research and come back to you with some info.

Going back to the original theme of the post.

 

Those of us with grid tied system that is 'linked' to an old type meter which will merrily spin backwards when the system produced excess power are all to aware that they need to ensure that their system does not export on the day the meter reader cometh.

 

This is OK if your meter is the only one on the pole.  You have a fairly good idea what day the meter read normally comes and there is little chance of the local PEA turn up at the pole unless there is a fault.  But what happens when there is more than just your meter on the pole?

 

In my case, there are 5 meters on the pole outside our house. 

 

OK the meter reader comes on the designated day and reads all the meters.  No problem.  But what happens when a neighbour has a fault, or didn't pay their bill on time. 

 

Recently my wife and I were returning home from our weekly shop when as we pulled into our Moo there to my horror was the PEA man at the pole outside of our house disconnecting the neighbour's supply.  I have to say my heart sank into my sandals anticipating that he would have spotted our meter spinning backwards.   Obviously there was nothing I could do, or say.

 

After I parked the car under our carport I immediately turned my 'patented' NO EXPORT switch on (located next to the gates) in the belated hope that it would stop any further surplus being fed back into the grid. 

 

As my wife and I walked back towards the house I heard the 'sweet sound' of the washing machine going through its spin cycle which hopefully would have drawn enough power to prevent my system from exporting prior to me activating the NO EXPORT switch. 

 

By the time I got into the house and turned on our CCTV, I saw the PEA man posting something in the neighbour's letter box and ride off on his motorbike.

 

Looking at my system's monitoring facility, it was fairly obvious that at the time the PEA man was there, my small scale system was not really producing a lot of power due to the pollution haze that we were experiencing.

 

I left the system in NO EXPORT mode and sure enough a couple of days later the PEA man was back and connecting the neighbour's supply.

 

So the moral of this is you have absolutely no control of when the PEA will turn up unannounced at your pole.  Be warned if you have more than one meter on your pole.

 

Other than switching the system to NO EXPORT every time we leave the house, has anyone any sensible suggestions as to what I can do to minimise the risk of this occurring again.

 

@dinga  Welcome to the Alternative/Renewable Energy Forum.

 

Approximately 3 years ago I was inspired by @Crossy original post “How about a solar carport on a budget”.

 

 

I appreciate that this post has expanded considerably since it was started ( now 23 pages), but I would suggest that you take the time to read through it as it will give you a wealth of information from various forum members who have ventured into solar, including myself.

 

In fact I've just noticed that on page 18 of @Crossy original post, you asked me a range of questions about my system, to which I subsequently responded.

 

FYI…. I only had a limited knowledge of electrical systems which was acquired when did my degree in control system technology, some 55 years previously.  That said, DIY was inbuilt into my DNA, so considering such a project at my age (then 73 YO) presented a wonderful challenge and great learning experience, especially during the pandemic lockdown.

 

Like you, our (my wife and I) electricity usage was relatively low, with an average usage of about 280 units/month over the preceding 2 years.

 

I decided that we would go for a simple grid tied system with the aim of reducing our monthly usage by 75%.  As a result, I opted for 4 x 415W half cut mono panels linked to a 2kW grid tied inverter.

 

The panels would be mounted onto our carport roof, which is South facing and angled at approximately 15^o, which was almost ideal for our location (24 km West of BKK). 

 

The inverter and breakers are mounted in the shade under the roof of the carport below the panels.

 

The total cost of the hardware was 28,000 THB, give/take a few THB.  It was a DIY installation, with basic tools, so no additional labour costs, just my time and effort.

 

The system has now been running for 18 months and has saved us approximately 18,000 THB off our electric bills.  I estimate that ROI will be approximately 2.5 years based on the cost of the electricity (4.2 THB/unit) when the system was commissioned.  Not a bad investment when compared to the inept interest rates paid by banks these days.

 

The major drawback with our gid tied system is that when the sun is shining brightly, with no clouds and we are only using minimal appliances within the house, our old type of electric meter spins backwards at a 'fair rate of knots' because the solar system is then feeding surplus power back to the grid.

 

This is something that you don’t want your local PEA to see as it is in fact illegal.  If they (PEA) discover you are back feeding, at best they will fit a digital meter which wont spin backwards.  At worse they can demand that you remove/disconnect the solar system and/or pay a fine (10 x the estimated loss of revenue) and/or threaten to disconnect you from the grid.

 

Many of us the have a simple grid tied system, with an old type of meter which can merrily spin backwards, are all to aware of the need to 'not to export' on the day that the meter reader comes or to go into a negative meter reading situation, that is to say the current meter reading is less that the previous one, as that will ring alarm bells with the PEA.

 

In your current post you mentioned that a contractor indicated that feedback to the grid would not be available.  This is because the contractor is well aware that they may well become liable if the PEA discovered your system was back feeding into the grid.

 

For a solar system to be approved by the PEA to back feed, there is a complex set of rules/regulations which must be adhered to, coupled with a massive amount of paperwork, which increases the cost of an installation and ‘commission fees’ considerably.

 

Please don’t be put off.  If I can do a DIY set up at my age with limite electrical experience/knowledge, so can anyone else with a reasonable degree of applied common sense. 

 

Don't hesitate to ask questions, that's what the forum is for.

 

Good luck.

On 4/13/2023 at 4:49 PM, eddysacc said:

What I should to do, I assume, is checking if my solar farm checks all the requirements from the PEA.

 

Thanks to crossy I checked the inverter list already. And my inverter is on that list.

 

The engineer clearly stated that for 1 Phase house connections there is a limit of 5000w per meter.

I got 8x 450w panels at the moment and would upgrade to 11x 450w panels = 4950w before applying.

 

What about safety features of the solar farm? Is there a handbook with all.the requirements from.the PEA/MEA?

 

Any advice?

@eddysacc  FYI.....  I've attached below an unofficial translation of the so called ERC Rules & Regulations on Thailand's Solar Rooftop Programme. 

 

Good bed time reading and will give you a good insight into what is required in order to get MEA/PEA approval to feed into the grid.

 

The real nitty gritty stuff relating to 'hardware' is contained in Annex 5, which is from about page 49 onwards.  The preceding pages deal with the basic application/approval process.

 

As you will already be aware, the inverter must be on the MEA/PEA approved list, but unfortunately that's not the end of the story.  Your panels and wiring must also meet the required MEA/PEA standards.  If you are having the PVs mounted on your roof, you will need to have a licenced structural engineer certify that the roof will not collapse under the additional weight of the panels etc and that the proposed panel mounting structure will hold the panels in wind etc.  You will then need to employ an approved (MEA/PEA) installer to actually do the installation.  The installer must hold the of a minimum of a Batchelor Degree and be a licenced electrical engineer.  The person supervising the installation must also be a certified electrical technician and must be onsite throughout the installation process.  Once the installation is completed, the installer will arrange for an engineer from the Council of Engineers to come and inspect the installation.

 

As you can imagine all these requirements will come at a cost (+++), above the cost of the hardware.  Hence the reason why having a professional installation done is so expensive.

 

As I think @Crossy has already mentioned, if your installation was a DIY job there is very little chance of you getting MEA/PEA approval to feedback into the grid.

 

Best of luck.

20130918_giz_translation_solar_rooftop.pdf

Well our local PEA meter reader has just called and delivered his little piece of paper into our letter box.

 

Good news.  It appears from the bill that the FT discount is still being applied.  As can be seen from the image below we got a discount of 72.71 THB.  I don't know if this is because, thanks to our small scale GTI solar system, we only needed to purchase 79 units this month and maybe this kept us in a low user category.

As several other members have commented in other posts, this has not been a particularly good month in terms of power produced v units purchased.  As can be seen from the graph below, since the 7 April we have been purchasing more units per day because we have used our air cons to help lower the extremely high humidity and filter out some of the PM2.5 pollution that has been blighting us recently.  

 

That said, our small scale system has still managed to hit my original design target of producing approximately 25% of our household needs.

 

 

FYI.... On the 4th April our system produced 7.64 Units, with fairly good sunshine and minimal clouds during the day.  Because the panels were getting quite dirty due to the dust/pollution, I cleaned the 4 panels at around 06:30am on the 5th April.  It will be noted that there was an appreciable increase in power produced that day to 8.86 units with sunshine and minimal clouds as per the previous day.  However, the next day (6th April) we were blanketed by PM2.5 pollution and the panels hardly saw the sun all day, resulting in the system only producing 3.26 units that day and us having to purchase 6 units from the PEA to compensate.

@nomad2019

 

OP… not sure why so many members have given you information relating to the requirements of the America Embassy in BKK.  They obviously missed your opening remark “my divorce in uk will be through 5th april 2023..ill then wait on decree absolute ...”

 

If you go to the British Embassy website you will find a comprehensive list of obstacles (documents and procedures) you will need to jump through.  For your ease, I’ve attached a link below to the relevant page.

 

https://www.gov.uk/marriage-abroad/y/thailand/opposite_sex

 

However, there are few things that you need to be aware of that may ‘screw’ your plan(s) up’. 

 

Firstly, when making your application for an Affirmation of Marriage you will need to provide the embassy with a copy of your decree absolute, so the question for you will be, will that come through before you come to Thailand?

 

Secondly, appointments for you to attend the Embassy to swear your Affirmation are like ‘gold’ and you may well be looking at several weeks ahead for an appointment.

 

Thirdly, once you have your Affirmation from the Embassy, you will need to get it translated to Thai and the translation then certified by the Thai the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in BKK.

 

FYI.... It may well be advisable to get a certified copy of your passport done whilst you are at the Embassy as most amphur’s require a certified copy which has been translated into Thai and certified by the Thai the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in BKK.

 

It is possible to get all of this done by yourself.  Just allow plenty of time and don’t get too frustrated by all the hurdles you have to jump over.    As someone above has suggested, it is possible to get an agent to help with the ’legwork’ at a cost of course.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.