hammered

The Thai people seem to have a savvy understanding and natural introspective analysis of the purpose of Thai media. In spite of virtually all the mainstream traditional media being pro-Democrat, at least soft yellow and/or extreme conservative the people repeatedly vote the other way. It is an interesting case study for students of media studies as in most countries media manipulation affects electoral outcome. Why does the mainstream media in Thailand have so little sway over opinion? The mainstream print media are the voice of the ultra rich and powerful in Thailand.

Dont worry half the country or more know the government passed a flood relief bill and the unelected senators and opposition then placed cases in court preventing it form being enacted. It is still locked up in court now. Of course the Dems, their media mates, unelected senators and their minority support around the country will blame the government for everything without mentioning this rather important fact. And of course the government and political allies and the reds will tell their supporters who represent most of the country that it is the opposition and courts fault. And of course the actual voting Thai people will choose to believe the version of events put forward by the politicians that they trust. Reality.

If the opposition wants to win the votes they need to ever win an election, they have to stop locking everything the government do up in court cases. Whenever they do that the government has a nice convenient out of blaming the opposition. Recent polls have shown PT as having double the support of the Dems without even adding on their allies. They have also shown the current constitution, courts and media are seen as creating conflict by more than half the country. Let's just hope nobody tries to do anything stupid again.

Total rubbish.

The government borrowed or got approval to borrow B350bn for the flood relief projects. They (Thaksin) appointed an arrogant ignorant idiot (Plodprasop) to be in charge. He went ahead, without the legally required EIAs and local support, to implement some of the projects. The opposition rightly forced him into carrying out the proper studies & hearings. All the delays are due to Plodprasop's refusal to listen to any advice and his inability to manage projects that he is not competent to head up. His one 'qualification' is to do according to his master's voice.

You are welcome to believe polls that have as much credibility as those picking PTP to win the Bangkok governor election. Also, if you have any idea about democracy you would know that checks & balances are an important part of it. The current constitution was accepted by the people - a first - and the CC is well within it's rights to rule on how it should be amended. The PTP of course think that an election entitles them to do what they like. They have learned that they can't - so far. Maybe you need to learn that too.

You could chose to believe the media and elite propaganda I guess. Personally I do not.

This will run and run. A more efficient way for this forum to comment might be to make a separate thread for each of K. Boonyakiat's ten points (above). Yes, I realise its all been said before.......

My post is about the present. For the future (and past and present of course) Education is the biggest failure

For me the increase to the minimum wage is the most outrageous and unsustainable policy of the day.

IF it was 200 and now 300 that is a 50% increase.

IF it was 250 and now 300 that is a 20% increase.

Either way barking mad! All prices have to rise accordingly across the economy, and a good many rural workers used to getting 200 will now be unemployable at the lower end of the market. The evidence is already out there - far more men sat around doing squat, or forming demonstrations, when they should be at work earning 200 a day.... And the girls, bored, getting pregnant/married creating more mouths to feed.... (And I understand demographic projections are encouraging this).

Businesses across the board from the smallest restaurant just breaking even to factories will either go out of business, or, pass on the increased labour costs to customers - read consumers!.... And eventually a good many of those businesses become uncompetitive, and surprise surprise will go out of business.

International companies are looking elsewhere to base their Asian operations to ensure their Labour costs continue to fit their business plan models.

Unemployment is at 1% don't you know. That is the biggest lie which will bite the hardest just as soon as tax increases start to hurt, and empty mouths cannot be fed.

Actually if you bother talking to senior management in Chonburi industrial zones where many many workers are employed you will find that:

1. They are having to pay Thai workers more than 300 baht per day as the workers can return to their villages and receive that remuneration.

2. They have no problem paying in excess of 300 baht per day as their margins allow for this easily.

This would seem to imply that those who actually employ hundreds of thousands of people and actually know whatt is going on are saying the 300 baht wage is pretty much a nationwide reality and that the fairer days wage is actually no problem for them. In fact many will tell you that it is good to see the poor get a better deal.

The opinion of one person. It is rather badly headlined as "Thai Opinion". The Thai people as a whole can have their say at the next election. Simple. That is how democracy works.

The last bunch actually spent 1.4 trillion on giving people 1000 baht notes in their hands and there was hardly a quibble from all those moaning now. And yet the people voted them out clearly not trusting them to run the country in a way that actually helped the majority. The current opposition after being unceremoniously booted out in this way should learn the lesson and adapt and try to get elected instead of spending all their time throwing tantrums, chairs, insulting the rural poor and locking everything up in a myriad of court cases to prevent any policy being implemented. Thailand needs a viable electable alternative to the current government. Right now they lack one. The history of the initial rise of Thaksin shows it is possible to appeal to the majority and electorally come from virtually nowhere and defeat established parties. It just means finding common ground with the majority. The opposition would be well served by learning form their nemesis and modernising their own archaic regionally hampered party structure although admittedly getting the inbuilt southern executive control to agree to give up their power of controlling the party without consideration for others is going to be hard and beyond a lightweight like Abhisit.

Imagine Yingluck asks everyone in Isaan and elsewhere if she should borrow 10,000 baht on behalf of each one of them and give the cash straight to them. Unlike them she actually has the power to get such a loan. The repayment will be done over many years by the government incl. Interest. Do you think they would say yes or no to that? Now imagine if she changed it to 100,000 baht each, what do you think they would say? Now imagine a million baht each, cash in hand today, eventually repaid by the government incl. Interest, what do you think they would say?

can we agree they would all be lining up for the cash? Can we also agree that people who think taking out such a loan is a good idea, should not be making any decisions at all?

You may be unaware of this but debt financing projects is common practice although the economically amateurish handing out of 1000 baht notes to all and sundry by the previous regime was lacking in any form of fiscal or economic discipline so we should draw a line at that. Also the main concerns of international economists that have been written about in international economic journals etc have been that this necessary expenditure will be delayed because of political or court action and the Thai economy will then weaken. Of course this latter possibility is still there, and could as with the delaying of the flood prevention plans by court action result in more misery for the people. Local, regional and international financiers and economists in general welcome this plan by the elected Yingluck administration although from reading the vitriolic rantings of the local media especially you would be unaware of this fact. Still it is advisable to read widely and not just believe what is written in local propaganda apparatus.

The opposition is utterly useless in parliament. The anti-government street gangs have little support. The military. even if united enough to consider it, will likely not want to risk a coup against organized reds, a popular PM and with likely international condemnation and at a time when a political incident could derail the Thai economy. That means the only threat to the government are the various bodies set up under the coup and filled largely with people who hate the government, but in whom the public has little faith These bodies have loads of cases fed to them by the opposition they can use. The counter to these is the red shirts on the streets. Things are just slowly being cranked up to where if needed the reds can come out en masse. It creates pressure on the remaining bastion of the elite opponents of Thaksin at a time when most arraigned against him are in disarray, and there are rumours of a done deal. If the reds come out en masse this time, there could be a lot more anger among them than on previous occasions. Hopefully it will not all end in tears.

In the last few years, these potential clashes have been avoided as bodies stand down and street groups remain uncalled from home. That is probably a tradition best hoped for.

What was it Chalerm said? The "fascists" are funded by three companies: a food business, a bank and an alcohol company.

By the way, the rural poor often or usually drink locally distilled lao khao so it won't affect them

Chat clearly doesn't believe "and" is the same as "or"...

cant wait to see the responses from the red faithful on TV on this

It can be deferred, delayed, postponed, whatever, for a long time but eventually the PM serving at that time will be brought to court to justify his actions / decisions and to account for the unarmed civilians who were murdered and injured by the military during his period of tenure and under his authority.

Absolutely no problem with this statement, leaders and former leaders need to be brought to account for their alleged wrong doings, and if a Thai court decides that that the accused parties have infact committed a crime, they should serve their court imposed sentances...

or of course they could be found guilty and run for the hills and hide away...

It certainly appears that these charges have been laid against the former PM in an attempt to strong arm him into agreeing to an amesty bill, which will absolve a certan other PM from any wrong doing...ie agree to what we want and we will drop the charges

So its good to see the former PM calling their bluff and not doing a runner and standing by his principles, which is not common in Thai politics or any politics for that matter

I'm not quite sure what principles are being upheld by Abhisit refusing to turn up at the courts - just like the Red Bull youth.It seems a little ironic that Abhisit boasts of his respect for the courts and Thai justice, and then finds a weird excuses to avoid his case being considered.Perhaps I am being premature and he will turn up next month - we shall see.But as several members pointed out months ago everyone in this game knows Abhisit will never serve a day in prison - even though his alleged crime is far worse than the relatively trivial crime with which Thaksin has been charged.He knows it, the educated Thai population knows it and Thaksin knows it.the only group that don't know it are the usual suspects.

I would say virtually every Thai knows it educated or not. The red bull heir parallels are obvious. What the democrats fails to consider is that he is going to lead them into the next election while charged with murder. This is going to be a red flag to the bull reminder to all of government supporters to get out and vote PTP again. The irony of Thaksin being quickly found guilty and given a jail sentence for a comparatively minor crime compared to murder also only serves to reinforce the (rather bizarre) notion that Thaksin is the same as "us" among so many of the rural and urban poor.

Oh I guess I am assuming their will be an election and no kind of political game to remove the elected government.

The opinion of one person. It is rather badly headlined as "Thai Opinion". The Thai people as a whole can have their say at the next election. Simple. That is how democracy works.

The last bunch actually spent 1.4 trillion on giving people 1000 baht notes in their hands and there was hardly a quibble from all those moaning now. And yet the people voted them out clearly not trusting them to run the country in a way that actually helped the majority. The current opposition after being unceremoniously booted out in this way should learn the lesson and adapt and try to get elected instead of spending all their time throwing tantrums, chairs, insulting the rural poor and locking everything up in a myriad of court cases to prevent any policy being implemented. Thailand needs a viable electable alternative to the current government. Right now they lack one. The history of the initial rise of Thaksin shows it is possible to appeal to the majority and electorally come from virtually nowhere and defeat established parties. It just means finding common ground with the majority. The opposition would be well served by learning form their nemesis and modernising their own archaic regionally hampered party structure although admittedly getting the inbuilt southern executive control to agree to give up their power of controlling the party without consideration for others is going to be hard and beyond a lightweight like Abhisit.

Yesterday the courts accepted a bunch of anti-government cases while yet again delaying a case against government opponents. Does anyone here think that this goes unnoticed?

Dont worry half the country or more know the government passed a flood relief bill and the unelected senators and opposition then placed cases in court preventing it form being enacted. It is still locked up in court now. Of course the Dems, their media mates, unelected senators and their minority support around the country will blame the government for everything without mentioning this rather important fact. And of course the government and political allies and the reds will tell their supporters who represent most of the country that it is the opposition and courts fault. And of course the actual voting Thai people will choose to believe the version of events put forward by the politicians that they trust. Reality.

If the opposition wants to win the votes they need to ever win an election, they have to stop locking everything the government do up in court cases. Whenever they do that the government has a nice convenient out of blaming the opposition. Recent polls have shown PT as having double the support of the Dems without even adding on their allies. They have also shown the current constitution, courts and media are seen as creating conflict by more than half the country. Let's just hope nobody tries to do anything stupid again.

The Great Game of Thailand. Deals and... It has all been openly analysed and explained elsewhere. I will clue you up. If the Demos take to the streets and start using bad words, it means they are right old angry that the elusive one they didnt manage to get arrested or extradited or anything silly like that and the aging shadowy elites have cut the mother of all deals or at least a tiny one that leaves the Demos out of the picture. Of course the army aint going to get charged with anything in this scenario. I think Tarit said this already

The lesse holders in the industrial estates were a bit upset in the massive floods in 2011. In order to prevent

them all from fleeing to a dry country, I recall Yingluck promising them the estates would never flood again.

Will be curious to see what happens in the next couple of weeks.....

Yes that was before the national flood prevention scheme was delayed for god knows how long by certain people taking it to court to prevent it being carried out.

It is going to be a bit of an uphill struggle considering the vitriolic anti-woman and mysogynistic attacks that even a female PM receives from so called educated people and with a feminist movement that ignores it.

This is an article from The Nation

as the Democratic Party's Media Division it is their job to come up with stories that cast Yingluck in a bad light.

This has as much relevance as that other burning question .... Why hasn't she visited Belize, or, er, Bermuda?

Agree with the sentiment but the BKK Post is more a Democrat newspaper or at least its shareholding and management has rather obvious links. From what I have read/heard the Nation leadership has more of an irrational or maybe rational hatred of anything connected to Thaksin because of a business deal one of its owners lost out to him on many years ago. Can't be bothered checking the veracity but I have seen/heard it form several sources. Take it for what its worth.

Funny how the Thai media has repeatedly made mention of Yingluck's shortcomings with the Thai language ever since she was elected and yet, some farang on here claims she speaks perfect Thai.

Because she does speak perfect Thai like most middle class people who have the language as their mother tongue - though she does have a pronounced accent (I'm surmising like many of Thai Visa's English speakers).

I have this on authority of a Cambridge educated Thai lawyer since I was genuinely puzzled by the references to her poor Thai language skills in the Thai press (which the poster refers to) and more particularly on the social media.Much of this seems to be just political schtick

Her English language skills are a different matter and obviously she is much less proficient than Abhisit with his years overseas at outstanding schools and university.On the other hand she is a great deal better than Chuan or Banharn.Frankly she seems fairly typical of middle class Thais whose sole overseas experience was at a third tier US university.

But it's hard to demonstrate she has significant shortcomings in the Thai language.Not being very articulate is a different matter.

Funniest one of those attacking Yingluck's English has to be that "Concentration Citizens against Yingluck" on Facebook. They all go on about her poor English and yet the name of their page is a linguistic abomination that even the average construction worker screaming "You" couldn't do worse than that.

We shouldn't forget the cultural supremacy of the central Thai dialect among those obsessed with such things and how it used as a measure of intelligence among them. Of course the vast majority of the Thai people do not actually use that dialect on a daily basis (I can remember the figures off hand but it is a huge majority), and certainly do not chose to use it with friends, family etc so in that way Yingluck is with the majority. When people say a Thai person does not speak Thai properly it says more about the person making the statement.

I did read that her trips were a one two double blow as big bro set things up for her to mosey on in to town and sign a bunch of investment deals. However, whatever the truth in that one, it sure keeps her out of harms way leaving better brawlers to deal with the gutter politics game. It also winds her opponents up something chronic in to a frenzy where the make ill thought out comments that play politically into PT hands. Every attack on her has backfired against the perpetrator keeping Yingluck's popularity high up among the never polled regions and making sure PT are miles ahead of the Dems if it comes to an election. Plus lets be honest old Abhisit who never wins elections was pretty well hidden away and unseen when the army were all over the streets of Bangkok apparently controlled by him ( I see even Giles has defended Abhisit from the accusation of having ordered the army to do anything by saying quite simply Abhisit lacked the power to even think of doing such a thing and considering his quote to the western journo hounded out by dodgy doctoral degree man's law suits it is likely he is only a lacky for all vested interests). Now Yingluck I would say has far more power than that.

Having spent most of today looking around at what international, regional and local economists said about the 2.2 trillion project I discovered that they thought Thailand could handle the debt over the time frame, but more importantly were worried that the Thai economy would slow down if it wasnt passed in a timely fashion, and we are now at the limit of that. They were also worried about the Thai economy being derailed by what they describe as political incidents.

So if the legislature has passed the bill and time is of the essence and the level of debt (not much more than chosen one Abhisit's massive handouts after he was manipulated into power) is not of real concern over the time frame to economists, why would the party that cannot win elections suddenly come up with this scheme? If it were intended as part of normal democratic process, then it should have been raised before the legislature considered things. It is too late now unless they expect one of those incidents that economists say will screw the Thai economy but allow the hapless Abhisit back into power until the electorate kick them out again. Of course it could also just be insanity as the the party that cannot win elections realise they have been abandoned by even their own previous backers and actually have no chance of winning an election any time soon.

Read the accounts elsewhere. They are very different. Virtually anyone can tell you why this riot occurred after the majority of the rubber farmers had agreed to a government deal, and the roadblock site had been peacefully cleared at 7AM. That fact is something the Nation seem to have overlooked. Whether that holds now we will see. Lots of politics in this.

Why not let PT write their version of a new constitution and let the people vote on whether they want to adopt it or keep the current one?

The politicians have too many vested interests. Let the people decide..... that's democracy.

When the 2007 constitution was put to the people they were told if you don't like it elect people who can change/replace it. That turned out to be a bit of a fibber. So yes, let the elected representatives of the people write their version and then see how it flies vis-a-vis the coup government one in a referendum. The problem is that everyone knows the coup government constitution will get slaughtered in a referendum and that does not suit many of the powerful vested interests in the country.

However, that is democracy. And if the elected representatives overstep what the people want, the people can vote them out.

Anyway it seems that there is a general agreement between PT and the powerful (minus the democrat party who will no doubt be whipping up turmoil to appear relevant to the powerful and also some weird fascist loons) over what way things will go. After all they all want to get back to the business of business and that works best in a nice big business group hug by all (minus the sacrificed dems probably).

A small Thai educational company that are setting up a tutor school style operation want to employ me in a non-teacher position as an adviser. Can they do this? I am not sure myself.

It is only one of the many groups that are coming out and showing the growing discontent with PT and what they are doing and trying to do.

Just in the last few days we have had the farmers and other poor at Govt house, the environmentalists and others at Chaing Mai, the local administration group and now these ones.

Then we have the reds with their big loss of face when their 100,000 did not turn up because they were not paid.

No wonder PT are thinking about a snap election to try to get another 2 years before they lose so much support that they have no show of winning an election.

So, putting your whisling in the dark comments to one side, you believe the PTP would win a snap election now ? Presumably yes from what you say, but with a larger or smaller majority than before? I presume you think with a smaller majority though most informed opinion believes the government would do better now in a general election than last time.

Abhisit certainly takes that view.As for waiting until the end of the term one normally expects a government's poularity to taper off after several years in power.I would expect if an election take place in a couple of years PTP will be able to form a government but with a smaller majority.

In a parliamentary democracy incidentally it is perfectly normal for a government to pick and choose the timing of a general election so that it gains the maximum advantage.

Of course any election must takes place before the term of government expires as determined by law.Most governments running out of steam tend to hang on to the end

Context may well be linked to that piece in the Post by their (non-PTP favoring) military affairs reporter yesterday saying the army wanted change at the top. If true that is a big one and explains both why Yingluck feels she can speak openly, why the legislature suddenly decided to stand up to the courts, why the Dems are in chaos, why the authoritarian elite (as opposed to the liberal elite who split with them years ago) are attacking so hard etc

Someone a while ago wrote that an elite-Thaksin rapprochement made most sense for both sides and that the symptoms of it happening would be the Dems going into overdrive to prove their worth to the elite and the authoritarian elitists trying to conjur up incidents. Who knows. There is also the reds position to be considered. Most people still remember Thaksin having to apologize to them a while back after their relationship became fraught over amnesty for all including the military.

Interesting times, but a snap election will show clearly if PTP can increase its majority (they will not lose), and also if the Dems can maintain their previous vote. I would guess an election this year will see the the PTP majority increase if they chose to push for it, and the Dems numbers to decrease whatever happens. There are plenty in their own party who both know they will not beat PTP and who would love to see their current secretary general chastened.

Lets get real. The ruling minority won't be winning elections.

The Nation is softening up the crowd for another coup.

Does anyone really believe anything this newspaper puts out?

Let Thai people vote with international observers and the losers respect the outcome.

The army does not have the credibility to do the choosing every time they disagree with the winner.

With the army getting a "just following orders" pass from the DSI the other day, they just may stay out of this one. After all, they know who will win any election and they know that another coup will not just bring heavy opposition internally but also from abroad. This is a NIDA poll. Nida is a pretty yellow place and this poll is out of line with previous polls on the constitutional court.

If the army sit on the sidelines it will be the legislature who decide the outcome as they are the law makers in whom the will of the people reside and the only body that can break an impasse (true when you have a clash of the estates in most parliamentary democracies). If things do not take this route then it will get very messy and result in street politics. However, the reds have a very big advantage in this area, so with a bit of luck it will be avoided. It is best to just hope the Thai people find a way round all of this and one in which violence is at least minimized.