twix38

Re post above from Sparky38. Anyone used the Pattaya Royal Beauty Clinic or heard good/bad reports etc?

Also any news on surgeon Dr Tongsuk, as he seems to be the man doing all the work there?

Be interested to learn about the above regarding this place?

Don't have a photo scanned at present so will try to sort that out.

It is for my laughter lines that I mainly want correction. The rest could look better, but willing to just get eye wrinkles done for now.

Do you have any idea of the choices available? I will be in Thailand in a couple of months and would like to arrange to start the process off and get a consultation

I am a 44 year old English guy and seek personal advice on getting a facelift in Thailand.

My main concern is safety and getting a good job done, followed a long way behind by price.

Is it better (safer and better guaranteed results) to have it done in UK or Thailand?

Can anyone (preferably from personal experience) recommend the best Hospital and particularly the actual Surgeon to do the facelift in Thailand?

What is approximate price?

Of course I would rather pay whatever price, than have it go wrong.

Any other information would be most helpfull, such as a guide to procedures, consultation process and how to takle this whole issue before I go under the knife.

Thanks

Thanks DJpat,

I will enquire there.

Does anyone else have experience of a facelift and advice/recommendations/warnings etc as per my post, please?

Hello,

I played both at the Embassador Hotel.

I am in England now, but plan to relocate to Pattaya where I own a Condo later this year.

I am keen to play both and my level is of a good standard, but rusty.

It would be great to email directly and discuss with anyone interested in the Pattaya area.

[email protected]

Regards

Martin

I am a 44 year old English guy and seek personal advice on getting a facelift in Thailand.

My main concern is safety and getting a good job done, followed a long way behind by price.

Is it better (safer and better guaranteed results) to have it done in UK or Thailand?

Can anyone (preferably from personal experience) recommend the best Hospital and particularly the actual Surgeon to do the facelift in Thailand?

What is approximate price?

Of course I would rather pay whatever price, than have it go wrong.

Any other information would be most helpfull, such as a guide to procedures, consultation process and how to takle this whole issue before I go under the knife.

Thanks

Hopefully, you didn't just waste $40. I would expect that this is not the official Roche Tamiflu tablets.

If you want this as a safeguard in case of emergency, I think it would pay to make sure it is likely to work and do the job. Should be easy enough to confirm if it is the real thing

Call for urgent action on bird flu amid fears 2m could die

LOUISE GRAY

THE government must take urgent action to tackle an inevitable flu pandemic that could kill two million Britons, health experts and politicians warned yesterday.

Ministers have already warned that bird flu, currently at large in Asia, could mutate into a virus that would affect 50,000 people in the UK.

But even this stark estimate was branded "optimistic" by Professor Hugh Pennington, the country’s leading microbiologist, who said 3 per cent of the population could be wiped out.

The government has ordered 14.6 million vaccine doses, but they will take up to two years to arrive.

Edwina Currie, the former Tory health minister, said "urgent action" was needed.

Ken Livingstone, the mayor of London, said the virus was a bigger threat than al-Qaeda. "We are more at risk of dying from bird flu than we are from being blown up by any terrorist," he said.

WHO warns of human bird flu mutation

The World Health Organisation (WHO) says the bird flu virus may be changing into a form that humans can pass on.

The WHO is worried that bird flu, which has killed 47 people in Asia, could mutate into an easily spread form that sparks the next influenza pandemic.

The organisation has identified a cluster of human bird flu cases among relatives and possibly health workers in Vietnam.

"Such cases can provide the first signal that the virus is altering its behaviour in human populations and thus alert authorities to the need to intervene quickly," the WHO said in a statement.

The main concern of the WHO was a series of cases of the deadly H5N1 bird flu virus in a family in the northern Vietnam province of Thai Binh and the possible infection of two nurses who cared for one of the patients.

The WHO also says it has received confirmation of an additional 10 cases of human infections from Vietnam's Health Ministry.

The new cases were detected in early March or through re-examination of older cases, some of which dated back to late January and three of which had been fatal, the WHO said.

Toastwars, you have a great sense of humor and a very easy attitude but in this case you dont have the foggiest clue.

Bless him, He has his head in the clouds and then once they lift, he buries it in the sand.

I am enjoying life and aim to try to take sensible safeguards to keep it that way, if I can

Good luck all and maybe it will never happen.

putting it in to perspective, if 12000-18000 die of flu every year, then 53000 does not seem like a a lot.....i think you should be prepared but there does seem to be a lot of scare tactics going on here.

my only personal concern is that these figures are based on British health care etc....and i will be in thailand, cambodia and vietnam may - august. if i were to get the old bird flu in cambodia, vietnam or thailand what would be my best course of action? who has the best health care?

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53,000, I believe, is a conservative lower end forecast, which is still 3 times higher than normal and infections will be 10 fold the normal population infection rates when not in a Pandemic.

If it stays anywhere near as deadly when it makes the leap into Pandemic status it will be terrible. Mortality rate will hopefully come down from the approx. 75% by then, I hope!!

I got a feeling mr toastwars will flame me for this - but what's $219.99 if it some day saves my sons life ?

Of course, my sentiments entirely. Only the poor and ill informed would not take sensible precautions.

As Tamiflu is preventative and the only treatment to at least reduce symptoms and perhaps save lives and is for all Flu types, it is only common sense if you are informed to have some in this environment.

The W.H.O. expert last night on Channel 4 in England actually said Antivirals were 1st line of defence right now.

Well said Felt 35,

A sensible and rational view based on the facts as they unfold and the best projections available.

You might want to avoid Pizza too. :-) (joke re earlier post)

I might stop eating pizza!

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Nice one,

I might stop breathing, that should stop infections :-)

"shock,Horror" not 12 people, that is devastating I must rush

off to give a pharmacy a big pile of cash..how long has this "crisis" been

going on? The death toll is massive...Oh wait...hasn't it been going on

for over a year? me thinks pizza is a bigger killer than bird flu, is there

a vacine against pizza?

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Projections, heard of them? Scientific expectations, W.H.O., CDC, Press warnings, read any of them? Heard we are overdue and if not Bird Flu then another Flu and deemed not IF but when. Tamiflu, a general Flu medicine, so always welcome in the Medicne cabinet.

I will now make a prediction. You can't afford a packet of Asprin, let alone more expensive medicine. Otherwise, you would have it already just to play on the safe side instead of arguing the professional advice and warnings being issued.

You are not the cautious type, that I feel confident about.

Good luck to you anyway. We each have our own oppinion and way of dealing with potential levels of threat.

bina

get serious, if Bird Flu is prevalent, Human to Human transmission confirmed, generally people suffering with it and in the daily news, then you might think more carefully about any Flu symptoms on top of these facts. It's a common sense approach. Bird Flu transmissions occuring = see a doctor if you have Flu symtoms and take Tamiflu in a common sense way relative to the circumstances. It is a Flu medication and not just for Bird Flu.

Ebola not around, but if it was in my back yard with the WHO banging on about it, I would be giving the same (even more urgent) advice to get out or get any medication recommended in a similar way.

To me there is something wrong with some people's view of the situation and taking minor reasonable precautions on a "just in case" basis to be sensible.

You might get knocked down by a Bus tomorrow, but if you knew the bus was forcast (W.H.O.) by the timetable to come along and you were in the middle of the road, would you stay where you are, sit down and shut your eyes.... waiting, rather than make the slightest effort to move(get some protection). Timescales are relative and this Bus is already running late and overdue!!

It is my preference to take sensible precautions in advance, if they are reasonable, practical and affordable. Then with peace of mind (even if deluded) I can sleep better. If I never take my Tamiflu, then great. I never got the Flu

Could it really be about cost and availability. If it was $15 and in the Chemist down the road, would you have it already in the cabinet with the Asprins? I think so...

BTW, I am nothng to do with Roche etc, just happens that Tamiflu is the only drug around(look for yourself what's recommended and being stockpiled) and the risks imho, if realised, are not worth ignoring.

bina

get serious, if Bird Flu is prevalent, Human to Human transmission confirmed, people in suffering with it and in the daily news, then you might think more carefully about any Flu symptoms on top of these facts. It's a common sense approach. Bird Flu transmission occuring = see a doctor if you have Flu symtoms and take Tamiflu in a common sense way reletive to the circumstances. It is a Flu medication and not just for Bird Flu, so check and act on symptoms in first 2 days.

Ebola not around, but if it was in my back yard, I would be giving the same (even more urgent) advice to get out or get any medication recommended in a similar way.

To me there is something wrong with some people's view of the situation and taking minor reasonable precautions on a "just in case" basis to be sensible.

You might get knocked down by a Bus tomorrow, but if you knew the bus was forcast (W.H.O.) by the timetable to come along and you were in the middle of the road, would you stay where you are, sit down and shut your eyes.... waiting, rather than make the slightest effort to move(get some protection). Timescales are relative and this Bus is already running late and overdue!!

cheers twix - just having a bit of a rant but i would point out to you and many of the other posters that seem to think that 'tamiflu' is somehow going to do anything save for cure a few minor symptoms are dreaming -and that is not a rant. pls re-read the blurb from cdc:

Fever was often the first symptom,

dyspnea often occurred a median of 5 days after illness onset (range 1–16). all patients were found to have fever, cough, and dyspnea,

almost half had myalgia and diarrhea.

intermittent high fevers [NOTE THIS IS HUGE DANGER FOR ADULTS]

persistent cough productive of thick sputum.

One patient had a small amount of hemoptysis.

organ failure or dysfunction was commonly observed,

including respiratory failure in 9 (75%) patients,

cardiac failure in 5 (42%),

renal dysfunction in 4 (33%).

this is potentially a massive problem on the scale persons currently living have never seen and you are living in the epicenter.

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I agree H5NI, these symptoms are dreadfull. My oppinion however is that although Tamiflu is not the real answer (a vaccine is) it is the best we have. As the medicine MUST be taken within first 2 days of symptoms, the reason for this is clear because Tamiflu blocks the cell receptors that the Bird Flu virus attaches to and it must have a chance to compete with the virus. Thus, it follows that as the virus in this cell cannot then multiply and infect new cells the further details you supply should not occur. Well this is the theory and who knows it's perhaps a 50/50 (I would hope a little better)rather than the odds you get without it.

I fully realise we do not know the full facts and many other important factors, but as I have said, it is all there is right now and I would rather have some.

Good luck to all you out there in Asia. I am in the UK now and you should see the government plan being prepared if it comes here. Contingency for portable morgues, evacuating Cities and banning large gatherings such as Football matches and concerts etc. Governments are indeed also ordering to stockpile Tamiflu, and Ken Livingstone (London Mayor) has placed an order for key workers such as Hospital, emergency services etc.

I might add that the WHO expect a strong possibility that the Pandemic will be next year. Of course it may never happen (well it will one day!)

If fear of this flu makes me scour the web and have to read "the Scotsman", pay out $109 bucks for a drug that I may need because 15 people have died from it in three months. Then I think I would rather take my chances. By anyones standard the death toll is not that high and you will probably get knocked down by a bus on the way to the chemist because you reading the Lancet and not looking where you were going. It is peoples reliance on drugs and antibioics that have created all these super bugs, yet we still go running to the pharmacy at the slightest urgeing from the WHO, it's like using petrol to put out a fire

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Toastwars,

A simple Google search for top stories does the trick. Mortality rate at about 70%+, although could change and hopefully reduce on reassortment, if becomes a Pandemic. It's not the figures now, it's the potential if gene reassortment allows sustained human to human transmission.

Surely the WHO are not known for scaremongering and the future threat is real and alarming. My crystal ball is no better than your own, but as a cautious guy I would rather have some Tamiflu than not. The WHO seem to think a Pandemic overdue and quite likely that Bird Flu could become the next Pandemic, if so you may not live to regret it. Of course, you may well personally help your wish for Human pruning. Each to their own. Pesonally a few £'s, $'s or Baht is not a heavy price to pay and it treats all types of Flu, so good enough to keep in the medicine cabinet for you or a friend in the years to come.

Perhaps your visits to the beach to bury your head in the sand should continue. He he

I do agree with you generally on our race to the Doctors at the slightest sneeze for Antibiotics and that we have made our own problems in regard to bacterial resistance etc. Often Antibiotics are not even correctly prescribed in the first place

May I mention that my original posting also made the point that Thaskin was playing fast and loose with public health again, just as he has focused on tourism and economic priorities before. True to form he even tried to hide the truth about the earlier Bird Flu episode until he no longer could. IMHO he should now be culling the Duck population as recommended by his own minister for the committee set up to oversee these operations and public health. This guy is a businessman, crook and liability. Whilst I also have to recognise he is perhaps the best there is available and won a resounding victory.

H5N1,

I have no reason to doubt the Scotsman's reporting just because they are not the Lancet etc. It is not the first article I have read to this effect and another did give a reason, as I quoted earlier. I suspect that your suspisions about Adults working with the birds is of course complete guess work. At least I have read mine more than once and posted one link. Nobody knows how this will turn out yet, but it could be a factor that healthy adults are hit dissproportionately and let's just have a wild guess that they all worked directly with the birds and make up a few other nice stories too. Perhaps the Lancet will post it from Dr H5N1.

Anyway, you have a biased viewpoint and simply will not believe it possible. No worries and frankly as it is a side issue I can't be bothered to discuss it anymore.

Has anyone found a source to obtain Tamiflu, especially on-line?

To H5n1,

In answer to your comment below.

If you are a smoker, youre screwed. so keep smokin them spags up homies! twix says thems healthy!

Here is some proof taken from an article in the Scotsman today. I have highlighted the section of note below and provided the link. I have already stated why the 20 to 40 age group can get worst hit. Perhaps you think they all kept smokin those spags up and died of lung Cancer , but strangely with Flu symptoms.

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=4171032

The 1918 pandemic of “Spanish ‘Flu” killed more people than the First World War which immediately preceded it.

More people died of influenza in a single year than in four years of the “Black Death”, caused by bubonic plague, between 1347 and 1351.

Over two years the virus ravaged the Earth and infected a fifth of the world’s population.

Unusually for ‘flu, which normally hits the old and infirm the hardest, it was most deadly for people aged 20 to 40.

But despite its horrific death toll, Spanish ‘Flu could look tame next to a virulent and easily transmissible strain of bird ’flu.

Dr Cox added: “We don’t know which of the genes in the avian virus are responsible for its virulence.

“If the virus that became transmissible retained those features that cause it to be so lethal in humans, we could have a high case fatality rate.

“That would be the perfect storm.”

Dr Shigeru Omi, of the World Health Organisation, today told a conference on the issue in Thailand: “We believe that the world is now in the gravest possible danger of a pandemic.”

twix38: "Infact they are disproportionatly worse off overalll. "

rubbish. here are stats from cdc. it would appear the young (and eldest) are indeed most at risk. my hunch is those in the middle had direct contact w/ the birds although i have no facts on this, nor am i an epidemiologist.

2, M

5, M

6, M

6, M

6, M

7, M

13, M

27, F

31, M

46, F

39, F

58, F

as for my comment about villages/cities:

"All 12 confirmed case-patients resided in VILLAGES that experienced abnormal chicken deaths"....of course, when this thing breaks loose, youll see it everywhere.

credit where due twix:

Treatment for all patients included broad-spectrum antimicrobial drugs aiming to cover most of the usual and unusual respiratory pathogens. Eight patients were treated with corticosteroid drugs, including 2 patients who survived and 6 patients who died. Seven patients were treated with the neuraminidase inhibitor OSELTAMIVIR at various stages of illness.

> not posting this just to slag you twix.

BUT...the notion that a weaker immune system is a 'better' to combat the (any) virus - you have to post the link, that is just tripe. by reason then if you abuse your body you will be in better stead?

hey people - this is REALLY, REALLY nasty, DEADLY. you should go have a look at the link. if you are thinking about a headache and runny nose -get a clue.

if you are a person who is not in good shape, i would make preparation to be near healthcare facilities if you are staying in thailand. returning home would not be a bad idea either - have a look before poo-pooing this statement:

Fever was often the first symptom, and dyspnea often occurred a median of 5 days after illness onset (range 1–16). During the initial evaluation at hospital, all patients were found to have fever, cough, and dyspnea, and almost half had myalgia and diarrhea. The hospital course was characterized by intermittent high fevers and persistent cough productive of thick sputum. One patient had a small amount of hemoptysis. Later in the course of the disease, organ failure or dysfunction was commonly observed, including respiratory failure in 9 (75%) patients, cardiac failure in 5 (42%), and renal dysfunction in 4 (33%).

if you are a smoker, youre screwed. so keep smokin them spags up homies! twix says thems healthy!

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol11no02/04-1061.htm

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Well, I certainly read that a strong immune system is more likely ON BALANCE to cause more severe secondary complications as the fever etc is the body's response to the virus and the worse the response (hence, stronger the immune response) the worse the outcome can perhaps be. So young healthy adults were potentially more at risk. Statistics of deaths to date mean nothing much as the spread is so limited to make statistical analysis worthless in such a small sample group. I am sure it was on a WHO notice, but the only thing I am 100% certain of was I read it from an informed source in the last 3 weeks, as I have looked at many articles. I don't know myself, but if this is correct it is a biological immune response and not necessarily directly effected by smoking and drinking.

Anyway. I don't want to get hung up on this aspect of the topic. You are right and I don't really give a ######, frankly.

The main thing is general awareness and the fact that imho Thailand is not doing enough and Taksin has proven he cannot be trusted to admit problems or deal with them in a timely manner. He continues not to want to alarm the public or tourists or try to cull Ducks etc as should now be done. He just has to look at how HK slaughtered all their birds quickly and efficiently in 1997 and stopped it dead in it's tracks (not going to happen this time, but no justification for inaction or lack of appropriate action) We just need to look at his usual behaviour to know his motives are not primarily concerned with Healthcare.

Ignoring the difference over immune response, I am pleased that I took the trouble to make people aware, informed and promote a discussion and of course mention the vaccine/Tamiflu topic as this COULD potentially be such a big issue.

Everything crossed

Here is where a forum like this can make a huge differance. I dont want the cheapest stores to find Vegamite or the best pizza, what I would really like to hear of is a pharmacy that stocks and sells Tamiflu. I think its critical to lay in a supply. If anyone can find such a pharmacy, please post its location. I have checked about 20 pharmacies around Sukhumvit and found nothing.

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Loading up with sythetic antivirals aint going to help, health eating and moderatin will stand you in better stead, "my body is a temple, I leave my shoes on the outside and don't fill it full of crap"

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Ridiculous!! Tamiflu is only taken when you have the Flu and clear symptoms (fever etc) It is not taken otherwise and sits in the draw as a means of last resort at the time of last resort. It is all there is right now, so you keep pumping yourself full of food and moderation.

Ok,

Firstly it is NOT true that fit healthy young and middle aged people have nothing to fear. Infact they are disproportionatly worse off overalll. The reason is that the better your immune system the stronger the response to the virus and the more chance of dying because you die from the subsequent secondary complications too as you battle to fight it off. This is documented by the W.H.O. who point out that in some cases having a weaker immune system which does not over-react is a good thing.

SARS was whipped up by the media. It was never going to spread like Flu and this Bird Flu has the potential to kill 3 out of 4 who catch it. The CDC (Centre for Disiese Control in USA) expect a great chance of a Pandemic next year, it could come earlier.

Tamiflu is all there currently is to assist, until a vaccine comes along.

I suggest you visit an international hospital or get friend's in Europe to send you some. The internet is useless as companies do not have stock. It is unobtainable unless someone knows different?

My aim was to inform and make people aware as it may never happen, but it very well could do, and possibly soon.

This topic should really not be tucked away on this forum only. In the current environment it should be a pinned or highlighted topic. It's not going to go away and until there is a vaccine it is a real and present danger to Asia and the wider world.

It seems to be not if, but when.

Bird Flu topic on the BBC and ITV news last night with the new developments and advice that although governments stockpilling vaccine, the vaccine may well be useless because nobody can predict the strain and evolution of the virus until it has arrived.

Also Newsnight on BBC2 highlighted the fact that the W.H.O. had taken the unpresidented step of actually recommending that the stockpilling of Flu vaccine and of Tamiflu should occur, as it is all we currently have. The manufacturer, Roche, are stepping up production as governments place orders and the UK government are in talks. France, Italy and USA have already placed orders.

The mortality rate was quoted as high as 80%. Fortunately you have to catch it first and I think I am right in saying between 25% to 35% of the worlds population would be expected to catch it, so that does leave most people flu free. However, millions would catch it and estimates vary on the deathtoll with a minimum 2 million worldwide and the W.H.O. projecting between 2 and 7 million as a conservative estimate worldwide.

What is Tamiflu? A vaccine for bird flu?

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No, it is not a vaccine. It is an Antiviral. It works by blocking the receptors in cells in your body (i.e. taking the link that the bird flu virus would occupy in the cell). It does not kill the H5N1 virus, but it stops it reproducing and infecting new cells. The infected cell will die, but if taken within the first 2 days of symptoms there is a fair chance you can survive.

It is the only medication recommended by the WHO, until a vaccine is readily available and enough of it. This is all down to timing. What happens first.