twix38

I am no expert, but if you send GBP and have it converted in Thailand you should receive the onshore rate. This is better than the offshore rate that you see from the UK.

No worries Pattaya Tony, I understand and good luck.

If you do feel the need to tell someone privatly (I would genuinely be interested and have rather put my own oppinion forward, irrespective) then PM me. Which part of the UK are you returning to. Retirement or work? No worries if rather not respond. Good luck

Amen to that guys

As has been said..............

"There is not one gambling den, not one brothel, not one drug dealer that operates in Thailand without the police being paid off. Thai people usually say being involved with the Thai police is like raising cobras. One day you will get bitten"

Dig below the fake Thai smiles to find the image of a Cash Cow being milked.

There's little sincere respect for foreigners (admitedly some Foreigners at the lower end of the spectrum do tend to gravitate to Pattaya and misbehave).

There comes a time when things just get too much and too obvious or/and become unacceptable. That's the time to think about calling it a day before this government or the next military coup makes it even worse.

See if there's much Baht left in the Bank account, try to sell the property in a company name that nobody wants anymore although estate agents and Lawyers were happy to recommend them as safe for years and take their fees. Sure, no direct problem, at the moment anyway, to keep them and live there, but try selling one!! It's not as easy as it used to be and a price discount is necessary, if you can even find a foreign buyer and not many Thais can afford to - yet.

If the truth was written down on an entry card to Thailand about all the unfair, zenophobic, corrupt and unequal treatment dished out to foreigners as a matter of course (or double pricing) nobody would invest here happily and foreigners would be a lot more worldy wise to their motives and the state of play, along with better reporting and articles in our home countries together with an awareness of the risks involved of the more leathal crimes and scams against foreigners (and in some instances by foreigners too).

No wonder all the Thais smile! ..........................I can see right through many of the shiny smiles to the mass of dental work waiting to be taken on.

I think it is an Asian thing and the Philappines is even worse. Thailand probably comes out as one of the better ones and for what it's worth I am really trying only to disuade investment and the conversion of too many GBP's to Baht. I do recommend Thailand as a holiday destination, but often not a great place to do business, as impressions are misleading and full of pitt falls.

It's on the money advice imho.

Have a good day in LOS

I'm not leaving for women trouble reasons. Infact she will be leaving to join me in UK.

I want to work and it's impossible to get a decent job, salary here unless I buy my own work permit (usually) and all the other red tape. That's IF I could even find anyone to employ me above a Thai. I don't want to teach English either. Anyway, that is all fair enough as it is Thailand, so I choose to work where it is easy and more beneficial for me, in the UK and for 5 days a week etc.

My points on "Thailand Living" for a foreigner in Pattaya at least are why I am selling up and not committing anything more (time and money) to this country except holidays whilst it is still cheap and pleasant. I think Thailand is fine as a holiday destination.

The more acquainted with the sorts of Thais I refer to (and there are many on the long or short rip-off game whether the public, Police, businessmen or Politicians, then the more disinchanted one becomes. I would not trust many Thais, with some exceptions, When it really comes down to it you can usually see that money is the root of the association.

I often laugh when a Thai does not really understand and just says yes, because they do not want to appear stupid (loose face). Can you tell me which way to Sukhumvit, please, is it left or right? "Yes". So it's Left? "Yes". Or is it right? "Yes". I have had this on a few occasions. If they don't know or don't understand why smile and say Yes, <deleted>!

Actually I have not been burned at all. I have a Condo in a Foreign name and otherwise my funds in GBP. A long term GF and a vast amount of experience on Thais that has kept me carefull and happy. I would not think to invest or committ funds in Thailand other than I have to date and I sleep soundly for that fact.

I have been in Thailand for 3 years and I have my Condo up for sale.

I am returning to uk for reasons of Thai corruption, laws to disadvantage foreigners are too much now, instability (coup & social divisions) visa tightening up and company scheme enforcement, violence against foreigners, rip-offs, scams and when you dig under the surface zenophobia. These are just some of the reasons, as you also fall into a "Don't need to know" basis.

Enough to say that LOS is only so if you don't know the real life and you are the one who must remain smiling, otherwise the Thai temper is often quick to punish. As always Thai's want the money but not the foreigner that comes with it and much deception is therefore induced and played out.

On the surface Thailand is inviting and it's peolpe friendly and really lovely. Underneath too many are pulling the wool over our eyes and as a foreigner you can rarely win. It's the biggest and longest played scam of all and little wonder we fall for it like mugs when compared to our own independent selfish women, but this Thai game is altogether more devious and common than is realised.

By no means all, but by every means many more than is thought and this is only those playing the long term rip-off game, without including the outright muggers, robbers, thievies, murders, pick pockets, scams etc that happen weekly if not daily in Pattaya. Just ask a Policeman for help after you have had to bribe him too, of course!!!

PattayaTony,

May I ask why you are now leaving Thailand after 3 years?

Thanks

I have been in this condo for 3 years but in Thailand for much longer. If I put the reason on here I would get kicked off TV. Put in jail for defaming Thailand etc etc. So its on a need to know basis and guess what you dont need to know.

I dont have a visa problem but I know of plenty that do.

Cheers Tony

PattayaTony,

May I ask why you are now leaving Thailand after 3 years?

Thanks

give it up as a bad idea.

Not a level or even fair playing field. Too much risk, doubt, insecurity, corruption and rip-off's to throw your money away on and that ignores the zenophobic people running the country and political instability.

Come for a holiday and leave your savings invested in the UK, for a relaxing and more profitable visit/stay. It looks great here and it is if you don't invest more than you can afford to loose.

Some make it, a few more break even or just keep head above living costs. Most regret it and become disillusioned at the uphill struggle just to stay still. The really clever ones use Thailand for their own holiday requirements and keep the GBP safely in GBP.

as an investor and tourist in Thailand, I was financially a lot better off with Taxin and a lot more secure.

I see trouble ahead with this Miliatsry Coup and sham government. Democracy or any chance of something close looks further away then ever and a time may well come when many will welcome Taxin back.

I knew he was a crook and corrupt (to whatever degree) and I also knew he was very likely better than what ever else may come along. I still think the same. From a Western and moral standpoint Taxin was unacceptable, but from a reality point of view I think I was economically and for foreigner's benefit, right to prefer he stayed as a businessman he did at least feather Thailand's pocket (and his own). They all do it in Asia and this lot are doing it too.

He is truly abismal, but I feel sad for the poor guy now.

Shall we start a "bring back the Geordie for a weekly guest spot" Just one night a week or one week a quarter. In very small doses it would be amusing and remind of how painfull and lucky we are to have somebody (anybody) else.

I wish Pattaya People had been asked who gave this guy the job and had even dared to reply to this. If it was Neils Colov, he should sack himself. LOL

GEODIE IS JUST TALKING ABOUT THE POLICE HAVING A TEACHING COURSE TO TEACH THEM ENGLISH AND TO IMPROVE BASIC ENGLISH LANGUAGE. The first pupil should be this very newsreader!!

As we are 7 hours ahead of UK, it's of little surprise that the change over to withdraw cash is 7am Thai time. Not too amazing and well known to me anyway.

Other info appreciated

I thought the women was not too bad.

However this guy stopped learning English at around the age of 6! He can't read a punctuated sentance and makes a pigs ear of the meaning and flow. It's laughable to hear him stop and start in completely the wrong places.

It's not his fault. He is just not suitable for this job and whoever hired him for the position should be the first to be sacked for incompetance above and beyond the call of common sense!

It''s so painfull to listen to, I often have to turn over

It reminds me of Neil Colov's English (not too bad at all) but often monotone and with the occasional deeper sound to emphasis the ending of some sentances when finishing statements. He gets a bit gruff. LOL

"Either they were posed by the incompetent police or they were shot in the back while sitting in the chairs which means there should be bullet holes in the chairs. It shouldn't be hard to figure out exactly where they were. However, knowing how the Thai police operate I bet the tabloids came and they posed the bodies first thing and then sat down to have some som tam and sangsom on the crime scene. "

I had a look at the murder site whilst riding by today. Loosly cordened off with tape and unguarded. Still a beer bottle and glass left there, but put down on the floor. There were NO holes on the deck chairs that I could see (possible I missed it, but I don't think so). I doubt a shot came from behind and I doubt anything can be used from the crime scene in future as anyone could tamper with it easily.

niether one particularly good.

There is Blind Beggar, but once again nothing special and it's out off Beach Road, Jomtien somewhere. Soi Wat Boon, I think. Open from midday.

Gravelrash,

If you find yourself Pattaya way, I would be very delighted to buy you a beer. Thanks for your viewpoint and all the best.

Popshirt,

Of course you should have the choice to go for fixed commission or net price. That's not the issue.

If you go for net price, I assume that you then just walk away and the estate agent keeps anything extra (if there is anything of course) as a bonus on top of whatever may have been a reasonable commission that they will of course have allowed for in the final sale price and you are happy to receive your net price. Once again great.

How about what I am talking about, though? Where the seller agrees that the commission rate will be say 3% or 5%. That is the Estate Agent's fee addressed and taken care of. Then the seller is asked for their net selling price and told the estate agent will plus all "costs on top" of this net price (i.e. their commission and any transfer tax etc. Not always explained, although should be obvious enough). This will then be the new sale price.

If the estate agent receives more than the agreed "costs on top" of your net selling price from the buyer, I wonder who has given the estate agent permission to keep that as well in this typical example?

You may do, but believe me most sellers are ignorant of the fact that any more money received will not be passed on! Clearly the seller has agreed a commission payment already for the estate agent. Few people are happy to pay lots more than has been disclosed or agreed!

Especially when this extra amount can in some cases amount to tens and hundred(s) of thousands of Baht which the seller (owner of the asset) should receive unless he has a contract detailing that he has set a maximum amount payable (cheatingly also often known in the trade as a "Net price") and further more that he/she realises what they are actually doing in this regard. It is NEVER stated or even mentioned that this practice will happen, of course.

As I and the professionals have stated. It is a scam and fraud.

Not totally, but at least in large measure because there is no regulation as it attracts and perpetuates this behaviour. Nobody wants red tape for it's own sake, but neither do we want the wild west!

It is played as a game to cheat and get a nice big extra bonus by some.

Think of the used car salesman's reputation and then double it for many of the wild west Pattaya estate agents who indulge occasionally or more regularly, but always secretly.........................Simple as that

If Temasek's takeover was legal and met all required sale stipulations of the law at the time, then Thailand will just have to wear it or offer a fair market price and ask for good faith.

There is enough corruption and cheating in Thailand, that if this asset was legally sold and bought, then tough 5hit.

I do not see this coup government turning out good for Thailand or being willing to let go when it really comes down to it. I fully expect the interim government will NOT be replaced by a demorcratic one that anywhere near meets a normal international definition of democracy.

hear hear Sunbelt Asia.

SPOT ON!

Noel,

This may be of interest

A Cancer vaccine called Trovax (it is treament) is in final phase 3 testing and recruiting subjects. It has very few if any sideeffects and is administered along with normal treatment. It identifies Cancer Tumours by attacking any cells with 5T4 present. As 5T4 is only present on Cancer cells it has a remarkable effect on Cancer tumours, whilst ignoring healthy cells. It is the new Gene Therapy type medicines and if your Cancer is applicable, I would go for it.

More details can be found at www.oxfordbiomedica.co.uk

Gravelrash,

I have NOT sold my Condo. It is on the market. I made a frank and uncompromising observation from my experience and distastefull dealings once being informed of this common and dire practice here.

You may rarely get a foreigner asking for a net price. In Pattaya I rarely go into an Estate Agent and don't have them suggest it, by asking for my net price. Rather, it is a struggle to stop it. I tell them I am on to your little crooked game, and you know what, when we then discuss it they all say it is very common, but they don't do it. Apart from 2 agents that even admitted to me that they do. It's really more like 90% of agents who can't resist it, if they get the opportunity and they can certainly try to make the opportunity.

I am not lashing out, but how do/would you feel being made aware that your property sold for 4 million, although you only got your net price of 3.8 million, irrespective of fees and taxes also paid. The net price has been used as a maximum. Then you realise why the agent was pushing a little or just asked for your net price. It does happen. Blimey I am being told by agents themselves it happens, so it must be common enough!

Perhaps we should just leave it that you do not know Pattaya practices and I can tell you some of them stink. How's that sir?

What are the visa regs for a brit?

Get one on arrival at airport or HAVE to go to BKK to get a visa at Vietnam embassy before leaving Thailand?

Thanks

Sunbelt and Quicksilva,

Good.

Clearly Gravelrash is talking his own book and whilst I have no doubt he/she is genuine and does not enter into this scam, I fail to see how when the worst practices are undertaken as per my posts and evidence, he/she can do anything other than call it what it is and accept that the facts confirm it is ongoing. OR is it possible that either Gravelrash has failed to really fully understand and accept it is widespread (still) or that I have misread Gravelrash and he/she is actually trying to defend this practice via the back door!!!!!!!!!

Agreed, the sooner we get this industry regulated, the better. Gravelrash, I don't hear you calling for regulation for the industry, as a responsible, respectable and aware representative certainly should be in the circumstances? Come on, it's the Wild West in Pattaya, as you yorself say, so let's see you take the Bull by the horns, stand up and be counted. Certainly, the Thai Estate Agent business left to self regulation is as corrupt as many other things in this amazing country. Is it any wonder. It is certainly indefensible.

There is clearly only one response to this issue and you guys (Sunbelt and Quicksilva) have my utmost respect.

Gravelash, you are in a monority and bordering on appeasement for fraud and substandard practices!

it didn't take me nearly 2 years to work out that from within Thailand, it's not going to happen.

I was also told there is a quota or formula for how many foreigners can be employed and hence only the higher jobs usually go to foreigners as Thais will fill the rest. You do really need to be sent here from abroad. I was offered a sniff at one job momentarily and that was to teach them English, not Banking at all! Never even got to the interview stage.

I worked for a merchant Bank in London and had good banking experience and qualifications, but it took me 1 week of touring around and collecting info, to decide it was pointless or it may take me many years of fails and false hope.

After 2 years, I would have thought you would have realised this reality ages ago and given up. If you have seriously been looking all this time from within Thailand. Amazing!

Gravelrash,

Not a bad mood, so much as rather fed up with all the corruption I see/hear and find this practice a really shady one that is simply outright robbery.

Not tarring you with the same brush, although from your reply and experience you were probably out to paint a better picture for the industry than I have been made aware of in Pattaya, so if we get a balance somewhere inbetween our views then that probably hits the right note.

My Taxi driver etc point was that whatever they do, it's a fraction in money terms to this Estate Agent rip-off, when it is employed. Just a small commission rather than thousands of Baht.

My actual and original point was not to go for a net amount, followed by the unregulated nature of Estate Agents in Thailand and the opportunity to follow the norm into corrupt practices. This still all hold true and I wanted to alert and inform other less aware individuals here.

Couldn't find the "dripping blood font" but i'll keep a look out for it ;-)

Peter,

Thanks for your invaluable comments on a serious debate that Sunbelt Asia has actually called fraud.

If I was robbed of thousands of Baht by those Estate Agents, masquerading in effect as lowlife unregulated thieves, I would be rather unhappy.

Personally I think it is too bad that the admins/moderators don't step in and put a stop to the bickering and ad hominem attacks that occur in so many of these threads. It seems to get worse every week.

Peter

I don't work in Pattaya, but we do get owners that want to sell for net price, usually Thai owners. Our contracts have the option of 3 percent or net price, it is all transparent. On the sale contract the owner can see what the actual selling price was IF IT'S THE TRUTH, AS BOTH PARTIES KEPT APART, as it usually ends up about 3% anyway there are no dramas as it was their choice. We actually prefer to work on commission as it gives more flexibility in negotiations; we are more interested in turn over. Ridiculous net prices or bumped up prices don't sell, just waste everyone’s time. Net prices are not negotiable, they are not a minimum or maximum, that is the only amount the owner will accept. FINE WHEN ALL HONEST AND VISIBLE, AS YOU SAY. I AM TALKING ABOUT A WIDESPREAD PRACTICE HERE IN PATTAYA THAT HAS BEEN CONFIRMED FROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, MY GIRLFRIEND IS IN THE TRADE AND BY OTHER ESTATE AGENTS THEMSELVES. IT IS WIDE OPEN TO ABUSE AND OCCURS HERE, IF YOU HAVE READ MY POSTED DETAILS.

The net price is more common in large land deals where the separate land owners gets so much, the land gatherer bumps it up, the real estate then bumps up that and quite often there is another party working for the purchaser that bumps it yet again. These can get very confusing. Occasionally there can be a freelance in there as well who has also bumped it up. It would be much easier (and safer) to just sell on commission, but you often don't have that option. Usually the buyers are Thai and are well aware of what is going on, but ignore it all if the final price is still reasonable. THE NET PRICE IS VERY COMMON HERE AS THIS IS WHAT MOST AGENTS ACTUALLY ASK "WHAT YOU WANT NET, SIR" YOU NEVER GET MORE THAN YOU ASK FOR NET, NO MATTER WHAT THE BUYER ACTUALLY PAYS (ANY EXTRA IS THE ESTATE AGENTS ADDITIONAL PROFIT ABOVE AND BEYOND THEIR AGREED COMISSION)

Saying that it is immoral or fraud is ridiculous, it is all contracted like that. Generally the purchaser has seen a number of properties and has a feel for comparative market value. Perhaps the buyers in Pattaya are less savvy, as generally buyers here do haggle for good deals. OFTEN THE PURCHASER HERE PLACES TRUST IN ESTATE AGENTS PRICING GUIDE AND ITS SO EASY TO PAY AN EXTRA 50,000 OR 100,000 ON PURCHASE VALUES IN THE MILLIONS. GREAT TO HAVE A SALE BONUS OF 50,000 OR 100,000 EXTRA THOUGH, AFTER THE SELLER GETS HIS NET AMOUNT. IT RIDICULOUS TO ARGUE AGAINST THE FACTS AND EVIDENCE JUST HERE ON THIS THREAD LET ALONE WHEN YOU SEE IT AND GET TOLD ABOUT IT PERSONALLY.

Buyers tend to forget who the agent is working for: the owner. If the owner instructs to sell for a net price then that is what you do. Does anyone really think a commission price will be cheaper to buy? The higher the sale price the higher the commission. If an agent is pushing you to set a net price and you don't want to do that, then find a better agent, you are the seller and it should be your choice.MY POINT ENTIRELY, MOST AGENTS HERE ARE WORKING FOR THEMSELVES FIRST AND FOREMOST, THEN THE SELLER. DON'T GET CONFUSED WITH WORKING OUT THE HIGHER COMMISSION AMOUNTS ON HIGHER SALES PRICES. IT'S IRRELEVANT IF YOU JUST KEEP THE EXTRA CASH AS YOUR RIP-OFF BONUS, AS WELL AS THE EVER SO SLIGHTLY AGREED LOWER COMMISSION. JUST KEEP ALL THE EXTRA ABOVE SELLER'S REQUESTED NET PRICE!!! AND THEY DO, OFTEN.

THIS PRACTICE IS WHAT WE DO CALL IMMORAL, FRAUD, RIP-OFF. I LIKE TO CALL IT WHAT IT IS!!!!!

I WOULD BE DISMAYED TO FIND OUT MY BUYER PAID 50,000 BAHT MORE THAN I WAS TOLD OR RECEIVED BECAUSE THE AGENT DIDN'T JUST NOT TELL ME AND TAKE A SLIGHTLY INCREASED COMMISSION AMOUNT, GIVING ME THE TRUE SALE AMOUNT. OH NO, THE AGENT KEPT THE WHOLE 50,000 AS I GOT MY NET AMOUNT, SO I SHOULD BE HAPPY. I AM NOT HAPPY AT THIS LIE AND RIP OFF. IT'S INDEFENSIBLE TO ANY RIGHT THINKING PERSON AND DISINGENUOUS TO SUGGEST IT DOES NOT HAPPEN. IT HAPPENS IN PATTAYA EVERY DAY AND SELLERS ARE IGNORANT THAT THEY WERE ROBBED OF THE REAL FULL VALUE OF THEIR NEGOTIATED SELLING PRICE!

AN AGENT I KNOW SAID SHE MADE A MISTAKE IN DROPING A PRICE TOO MUCH TOO FAST AND LOST 100,000 PROFIT. I ASKED HOW? BECAUSE THE NET PRICE WAS 300,000 BELOW THE AGENTS SALE PRICE AND THE UNINFORMED BUYER WAS WILLING TO PAY MORE THAN THE EQUIVALENT NET PRICE PLUS ALL COSTS AMOUNTED TO. IT TRANSPIRED (OBVIOUSLY) THAT THE AGENT WAS GETING THE BEST PRICE FOR THEMSELVES AND NOT THE SELLER, OF COURSE. THE SELLER'S NET PRICE IS THE BASE LINE AND ANYTHING MORE IS THE AGENTS GOOD FORTUNE.

Likewise people who try to sell their properties themselves. There is a perception among some buyers that these are the bargains. Is the seller selling below market value? No. he is simply selling at the same price the property would be set at any way, he just wishes to pocket the commission amount rather than pay the agent which is his choice. YES AND YOUR POINT? Also if you think it is clever to contact the building manager to get a deal, think again, they are in the commission either by percent or net price. Likewise the taxi driver who took you there, the hotel concierge or guide who recommended the building etc. YES, NOT A GREAT PRACTICE BUT YOU LOOSE A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE ONLY AND NOT QUITE SUCH A MAMOUTH LIE. THERE'S NO SIGNED CONTRACT OR TRUST BUILT UP.

Finally my favorite, the foreign customer that shows up with his Thai spouse, as she is going to get the best deal for him. I gather the assumption being that her speaking Thai somehow makes her an authority of real estate values? Either that or use her to speak direct with the owner and then cut the agent out. I've seen a few of these where the guy actually paid more than he had to, guess who the commission went to? We definitely do try to keep buyers from meeting owners. Firstly to avoid getting cut out and secondly to prevent buyers negotiating direct with the owner. Why? Because often they are just testing the market and not serious, no signed contract at offer with deposit, then no offers put forward. Saw another girl do an auction between owners (in the days we didn't keep them apart) as to who would pay her the most, she got an amazing 500k. Her husband, yes husband, would have been much better off coming alone. Bring her to approve the choice but keep her out of the negotiating...but, up to you. YES, DIGRESSING AWAY FROM THE CORE POINT OF IMMORAL, FRAUDULENT, RIP-OFF ESTATE AGENTS THOUGH. THANKS FOR THE LARGELY OBVIOUS HEADS UP THAT THAI GF'S ARE NOT PROPERTY EXPERTS, DON'T HELP AND MAY BE ON THE TAKE. THEY WOULD DO WELL TO SET UP ESTATE AGENTS HERE IN PATTAYA - PERHAPS WITH THEIR FORIGNERS MONEY, MANY HAVE .

Make sure it states the the funds are to buy a Condo.

The transfer to Thai bank MUST state that the funds are to purchase a Condo.