Mike Teavee

5 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The liability is actually 82,999.2 on 1 million baht remitted

less the U.K. tax paid (if any) on the £ sent

but only if they are not married (+60,000 allowance +30,000 per parent-in-law 

and none of the 1 million was pension (+100,000 allowance)

they are under 65 (over 65 +190,000 allowance)

have no Thai health insurance 

have no Thai life insurance 

 

the expense allowance is universal and already calculated in the 83k

 

so for younger people not getting any pension income with few ties to Thailand 83k tax to pay

I think we're in agreement here, only I'm a lot slopier with my numbers 🙂 [Which is actually <82,800 on 84K pm or 1,008,000) 😛 ) Assuming no other allowances

https://ata-outsourcing.com/calculate-your-personal-income-tax/ 

Point being that even without additional allowances, 83K pm is not really worth spending 6 months outside of Thailand unless you want to spend time out of Thailand.

Personally I'd lose more than that in 3 months rent I'd be paying on my condo while I'm not there so makes no sense to me, but if you're bringing in a large amount of untaxed income (e.g. the 12.5 Million in my example) then it makes absolute sense to do a Hotblack Desiato

8 hours ago, mstevens said:

 

This sounds good. Just did a quick look around and haven't been able to find it. Any tips on where I should look?

Sorry I got it on my WizzTV subscription.

I've just checked and it is available on CInemaHD which does allow you to download shows BUT looking at the available streams they're all Dizilab so will have hard coded Turkish Subtitles & I've no doubt these will occasionally block out the Show's English subtitles (when the characters speak French there are built in English Subs) so might get annoying unless you're fluent in French.

Hopefully somebody will be able to point you in the right direction as it is a good show.  

1 hour ago, Mike Teavee said:

Sorry I should have mentioned that these are worse case numbers, it's possible (Depending on your country's DTA with Thailand) that you'll be able to claim a Tax Credit for Tax you've already paid on the income.

 

E.g. lets say £1=50THB so you're remitting £20,000, 1st £12,570 has been taxed in the UK at 0% & the remaining £7,430 taxed at 20% so you've paid £1,486 (74,300 THB) tax on it already which (assuming it's covered by the DTA) you should be able to get a Tax Credit in Thailand for and only pay the difference (If there is any)

 

Unfortunately you cannot use this to claim back any tax if the Tax in Thailand is lower. 

 

 

@Chalky0w This post from the main Tax thread might be of interest to you 

3 hours ago, Chalky0w said:

Thanks Mike! This is useful!
 

You’re correct that I’m not married or over 50.

 

I’m not too worried about 80k for tax but if I had to pay tax on total income it might get a bit knarly especially since paid UK taxes already.

 

Appreciate the advice!

Sorry I should have mentioned that these are worse case numbers, it's possible (Depending on your country's DTA with Thailand) that you'll be able to claim a Tax Credit for Tax you've already paid on the income.

E.g. lets say £1=50THB so you're remitting £20,000, 1st £12,570 has been taxed in the UK at 0% & the remaining £7,430 taxed at 20% so you've paid £1,486 (74,300 THB) tax on it already which (assuming it's covered by the DTA) you should be able to get a Tax Credit in Thailand for and only pay the difference (If there is any)

Unfortunately you cannot use this to claim back any tax if the Tax in Thailand is lower. 

1 hour ago, Chalky0w said:

Definitely looking interesting!

 

I’m in almost the reverse position of “the hordes” some are saying will come to work illegally - I have my own business in UK but normally only work a few months a year here and spend the rest of the year in Thailand or elsewhere not working.
 

Had a few METV in the past but this would be better value and more flexible for length of stays. Presumably I can bring my laptop and claim to work even if all I do is check a few emails?

 

Guess no one has any insight into how tax would work if I stayed more than 180 days?

- Pay business and personal tax in UK

- Income earned in UK (but guess I’d have to say some was earned while in Thailand)

- No Thai clients / nothing Thai related for income

- I guess I would spend / remit approx. 1mil baht a year depending on how long there (guess I could pay Thai tax on that if I have to)

- Annual income from work and investments is much higher than 1mil baht (don’t want to pay tax on the extra)

 

This will probably get buried in other chat but would appreciate any insights!

If you're in Thailand for > 180 days in a calendar year then you will have to pay Tax on any assessable income which would include things like income from your Business in the UK but no need to have any Thai Clients / Sourced Income. 

As you've mentioned using METVs I'm assuming you're not married & are under 50 so you'd pay approx. 80K on 1Million of Income (NB you might be able to claim an additional 100K allowance for "Business Expenses" which would reduce this to approx. 62K)

If you're over 50 (Or very wealthy 🙂 ) - Check out the Long Term Residency visa as this would give you Tax Free remittances on income. 

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

The thing about gifts to a spouse being personal property of that spouse and not conjugal property is a pure concoction that has no basis in the Civil and Commercial Code or any case studies that I am aware of.  According to the Civil and Commercial Code all assets acquired by either party to a marriage after the date the marriage was registered automatically become conjugal property.

Agree with everything you said apart from this part, as "Gifts" are usually Personal/Non Marital property (Sin Suan Tua) 

I've posted a link previously that probably covers this better but can't find it now & gotta run, so here's the 1st one I came across... 

https://thailand.acclime.com/guides/marital-property-assets/

What is Sin Suan Tua?

Sin Suan Tua or personal property consists of (section 1471):

• Property belonging to either spouse before marriage
• Property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse
• Property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift
• Dowry

If the Sin Suan Tua has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, the property or money acquired is Sin Suan Tua.

However, it is possible for the gift to be marital assets (Sin Somros) IF the condition of the Gift (or Will) states that it's made to both spouses...  

What is Sin Somros?

Sin Somros or marital property consists of (section 1474):

• Property acquired during a marriage
• Property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift made in writing
• Fruits of personal property (eg income in the form of rent from personal property)

I think your parents giving you & your wife a Gift & stating that it's a Joint gift would be OK but I don't think you would get away with giving your wife a gift and saying "This is for both of us", at best it would be considered 1/2 the Gift was for your wife but could be ruled as an invalid specification & 100% to your wife. 

Just now, Dogmatix said:

 

I wouldn't recommend this. If she remitted the money to herself, it would not be considered a gift.  In this case, half of the remittance is technically a gift and the other a transfer to herself but the RD might choose to consider all of it a transfer to herself.  I don't know of any Thai cases where ownership of assets in joint accounts is considered by the RD but, in other jurisdictions the assets are deemed owned by the account holders pro rata. For inheritance tax which is a common area where jointly owned assets are taxed, this is usually the case.   The US goes further and asks surviving account holders to prove they funded their share of the account themselves.

Interesting, when it comes to Joint Debts (in the UK at least) they're usually considered "Joint and Several" which means either party can "Own" up to 100% of the debt (i.e. One party cannot just say here's my 1/2 I'm clear). 

Also, in the event of one of the joint holders dying then (in the vast majority of cases) all of the joint assets are considered owned by the surviving partner (Law of Survivorship) & do not form part of their estate so can be withdrawn without probate.

Given this, IMHO Your wife sending herself money from a joint account is basically the same as her sending it from her own account.  

These kind of threads always make me smile as people are very quick to jump on somebody when they spend (what in their eyes) is a lot of money, but often turn into a competition to see who spends the least.

I spend approx. 20% more than I originally budgeted for, but my available budget for the 4.5 years since moving here fulltime has been 2x what I'd planned it would be (I err on the side of caution & treat things like Rental & 1/2 my dividend Income as a "Bonus" not to be relied up in my planned budget) so I'm comfortable with this. 

Oh & the 15% increase in GBP:THB has really helped 🙂 

1 hour ago, CANSIAM said:

It's likely that your coming online 90 day report after re-entering May 8 will be rejected, In their system your 90 day cycle count is still on from prior to your departure. Many offices want you to go in person after arrival state that you have left and returned to the same address - they will reset your 90 day to your new arrival date - should work online next time.

I don't think it's the break in the cycle so much as I've done trips outside of Thailand before & with the exception of the one time it was due at the same time as me moving address (Had to file TM30 & 90 day report) I've done them all online

This time I'm changing (UK) passport which will be fun 🙂  

25 minutes ago, webcrawler00 said:

I have done my 90-day reporting online many times.... but this time I got rejected and at least this time IMM gave a reason but I have no idea what it means. Does someone know?  I entered Thailand from Myanmar within the last 90 days. Still, 1.5 weeks before the 90-days report is due.

 

For first-time requests of a 90-day notification in each country visit, in-person presentation at the immigration office is required.

 

From what I've read elsewhere it seems like you need to do your 1st 90 day report after re-entering Thailand in person/mail/via an agent

I'll find out for sure when my next 90 day is due (Got back to Thailand May 8th) - Have done the past 3-4 years online with no problems. 

On 7/4/2024 at 5:48 AM, Richard5 said:

Interesting....thanks. I wish they had Okinawa and Fukuoka. I'm looking at those as alternatives to Thailand if the second Global Tax revision is approved. 

Expatistan has Fukuoka https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/fukuoka

18 minutes ago, JimGant said:

What's so difficult about excluding all income from Thai taxation that the treaty says is excludable

This is exactly how I understand DTAs to work in that they are for the "Filer" to use when working out how much "Assessable Income" they have (& as evidence should their return be challenged).

E.g. If I were a US guy receiving/remitting $3,000 pm from SS & one year remitted extra money that included $10,000 of Capital Gains (approx. 365,000 THB) that I hadn't paid tax on in the US, then I would ignore the SS (covered by DTA) & only report on the 365,000 Capital Gain.

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

You do not need a Thai ID (or tabien ban) to obtain a TIN.  If you have a Thai ID, you use that number for filing tax, making the TIN irrevelant.

 

If you don't have a Thai ID, you apply for a TIN to use as a substitute number for tax filing purposes.

 

I'll repeat.  If you have a Thai ID, that IS your tax number.  You don't need a substitute number.  It's normally only expats that applied for a TIN before obtaining a Thai ID that have both.

 

Just march your little butt down to the local tax office and apply.  I believe you only need to show passport with long-stay visa, no residence certificate required.  Others who have applied recently can confirm.  You'll likely be told you don't need one, but the claim that you need it to file taxes to claim interest tax refund should be sufficient reason.

I needed a Residence Certificate when I got mine from the Naklua Office approx. 18 months ago.  

17 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

The TRD Code states that a Thai tax resident must obtain a Thai TIN, within 60 days of exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k) regardless of whether tax is payable or not.

 

 

 

 

Have you guys seen the long long lines at the Tax offices of the Thais eager to get their tax number within 60 days of their income exceeding the minimum threshold (60k, 120k or 220k)??

 

LOL

 

Most Thais have never been to the tax office in their life and they have no plans to visit a tax office EVER......

 

There are LOADS of Thai laws that are ignored.....Especially by the Thais regarding taxes...

I understand the point you're making, but it was a bad example as Thais are given a TIN at Birth (It's their national ID number) so there is no need for them to go get one. 

8 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

ATMS', credit card, exchange booths, bank accounts etc.  People really think the government has the technology, staff and motivation to track all these transactions for tax purposes?

Unbelievable.

CRS only reports end of period account balances (IIRC could be as little as once per year) so no way of tracking ATM withdrawals or credit card transactions. 

However, TRD could decide to do an audit on anybody who doesn't appear to be spending any money from a Thai Bank account and ask them where they are getting the money to live on... If they then decide that you're lifestyle costs 100,000 THB pm, they can tax you on this amount & apply any penalties for not reporting the income. 

Edit: OP Wise transfers will be reported even if they show up as an Internal Transfer. 

Not an official site but I received an email with this link today…

https://btisolutions.co/videos/dtv-visa-2024-updates/

Might have some useful info, I’ve no interest in DTV so Caveat emptor

50 minutes ago, topt said:

HL and II certainly do and I would have thought all the bigger broker companies provide that information at year end just as the banks do. Does your not?

 

But yes it could become painful with the tax year discrepancy - UK vs Thailand.

For Dividends yes, by law they have to send you an annual CTC showing dividend/interest income (I wait for this before sending the Info to my accountant to file the return) but for Capital Gains no... 

Do HL & II show you Capital Gains? TBH I've had some of these shares longer than I've had a Broker so even if my Broker did do it, they couldn't calculate it 100% accurately as neither they (nor I) know the accurate Book Value of all of the Shares... 

3 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

It's a simple task to calculate your own annual totals for capital gains, dividends and interest based on monthly statements or transaction notices.  I don't think TRD will consider that the annual 1099 (for US) is the only valid reporting document.  In fact that's how I make decisions in the last few days of a taxation year to ensure I maximize my income without crossing the boundary into a higher tax bracket.

In the UK you have to calculate your own Capital Gains as your Broker doesn't do it for you, fortunately for me (as a long tern Expat) it's not reportable, if I had to report it I wouldn't know where to start working out the average value* for one of my holdings as:-

1. I've never gone to zero shares on it so some of the shares were acquired >35 years ago.
2. Some of the shares came from Profit Sharing Awards (I used to worked for the company) with bonus shares added for keeping them > 7 years, Scrip Dividends, Exec Share Options, Stock Splits etc...
3. I have occasional sold & repurchased the stock within 30 days when there's been a dip & UK has a 30 day rule which means I would have to revalue the shares as at the price of the shares I sold..

For Dividends it's easy to work out how many shares you had at a date & multiply it by the dividend per share, and how much tax credit is available (IIRC it's 0% on the 1st £1,000 & then 8.75% on everything over this) but (again, as an Expat) "Disregarded Income" rules can come into Play & I'm not familiar with calculating this so rely on my Accountant to calculate it when they file my return (usually 1st week in July, did 2023/24's return 2 Days ago).

*Appreciate the US allows you to use different models for which shares you've sold but in the UK we have to use "Average Value" (AKA  "Section 104 holding")

Edit: I guess the safest way would be to not remit income until after you've got your home country Tax Report (Which for me means remitting most of this year's income in the 2nd half of next year).

7 hours ago, shdmn said:

I doubt it since this is not for permanent residents.

Nor are any of the other Visas (Elite, any of the Non-IMMs, even LTR is not for permanent residents). 
 

AFAIK, It’s only Thai Citizens, PRs & LTR Visa Holders that don’t need to Report every 90 days, even guys on BOI Smart Visas need to so I’d be very surprised if you didn’t need to do one on a DTV. 
 

Would be nice if you didn’t have to & at the same time they moved everybody’s reporting to 180 days / 1 year or better still only report when you change your address. 

9 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

You are not listening Mike. He defined repatriated funds as reported to TRD in terms of money into a Thai bank account. He did not say there was no other ways to bring money into Thailand.  He was saying that ATM withdrawals would not be reported to TRD.  You are taking exact words and using them out of context.  I know what questions he was answering and what he meant - but videos often make things interpretable many ways. Yes Chris should have asked clarifying questions - a lot of times I would have done so and asked him "Did you mean ..........." 

We clearly have a different interpretation of what he said, I do admit that I tend to take things literally so could have misunderstood him (Seem to remember I got a similar impression from the 1st video).

I'm sure he's forgotten more about Tax than I will ever know, but on the subject of remitted income I'm going to stick with my understanding of what counts (Including Debit & Credit cards), I figure if I err on the side of caution I can't get bit if I'm wrong 🙂 

9 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

IMO they would work out well - if you dont mind the extra charges. Wise is basically a bank with holding and exchange powers.

 

I was also thinking of maybe using Western Union - who are not a bank - and who will pay you the cash at a branch. But when I think about it, the fact is that they will be keeping Passport details - and therefore the question is - will they be reporting to TRD all local payouts?   

I'd lump WU in with the Exchange booths & assume that they're going to be reporting transactions to TRD. 

Just now, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Very simple - having a bank account in Thailand and remitting funds into your bank account in Thailand.  What you do not realise (think) is that he did not say something like " There are no other ways to incur taxation liabilities in Thailand" (such as bringing in cash). What he is talking about is the remittances of money into Thailand (that are reported by the banks to TRD).  Simple.  Stop reading into what he said, what you think he means - listen. 

 

He was asked a direct question about what would be considered "Repatriated Funds" & was definitive in his reply, what did I miss? 

He was also very clear that Debit/Credit card usage would not be considered "Repatriated Funds" & I think he's wrong, common sense says that if you take money from an Overseas account using an ATM in Thailand you're remitting that money.