vinny41
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Posts posted by vinny41
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16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:
I think there is an issue with how we consider depreciation of EV's.
A car (to take Vinny's example) that used to cost 1,189k and now costs 599k by comparing to a purchase cost of 1,189k will have depreciated massively. But if we compare it to the new cost of 599k then it hasn't depreciated so much.
I think the moment a manufacturer slashes the price of their cars, all used examples take an extra hit of depreciation.
Is it fair to say EV's depreciate rapidly because of that? aren't we taking an extraordinary event to make a generalised conclusion?
I think manufacturers are finding their feet regarding pricing of EV's. Particularly the Chinese who aren't slashing their prices to survive, they are simply adjusting them to what they should be, and especially with the price of batteries falling.
Chinese EV's are sold in China at a realistic price, nobody thinks they are dumping product there, yet their cars are much cheaper there than Thailand which IMHO should be harmonised to that price structure. There is no valid reason they should cost so much more here.
I think they entered the Thai market thinking they could make a quick killing and now that they have competition, ( mostly from each other) they are stabilising to real price and real value.
The big issue I think, is if China can build and sell quality EV's in China to a price, why can't the rest of the world even get remotely close to that?
Competition is great for the consumer, it pushes price down and quality up.
For anyone that bought a MG ZS EV in 2022 and paid the after subsidy price of B949,000
their car value is approx B485K although most MG ZS EV are being advertised for around B469K now if there was no price reductions and alllowing an annual depreciation rate of 10% per year their car should be valued at B769K
The Chinese EV Brands are reducing their prices to sell and they have a huge overstock but at the same time the price of parts are not reducing at the same level that is taking place with the price reductions on cars
For the Chinese EV manufacturers that signed up to EV 3.0 subsidy in 2022 the conditions are for every car they imported in 2022 and 2023 they are required to build on a 1 to 1 ratio in 2024 there is an allowance that states if you don't build your quota in 2024 you can carry over that quota into 2025 but the ratio changes to 1.5 Thai builds for every 1 vehicle imported if you don't hit the quota and the end of 2025 they have to repay the subsidy + fines + import duties I have seen reports where the fines range from B550K to B750K
The easiest solution would be if they were allowed for the 2023,2024 imports to be allowed to delay some of the local build into 2025/2026 on the same ratio as 2024 1 to 1 ratio
Even with B450K price reductions that is still cheaper than paying back the subsidy y + fines + import duties
Chinese EV industry in Thailand faces a crisis. It is demanding an urgent hearing from the government on its promotions
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First class car insurance BYD ATTO 3
This year, the car insurance of BYD ATTO 3 has increased significantly from the first year of its launch. And many insurance companies have also 'delayed the warranty for electric cars', which has reduced the number of leading insurance companies quite a bit.
https://money.priceza.com/blog/car-insurance/byd-atto-3-price-insure-blog/
Thaivivat adjusts EV insurance premiums after the Office of Insurance Commission (OIC) gives the green light to adjust premiums by 50% according to risk...
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3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:
2 months ago, so let's deal in the present.
Told wife, they have that price, 'till they run out of cars'. She didn't ask, and nobody stated, if they actually had cars available.
Just stated the avert was real. Since they are still showing it, and no cars available, well .... nuff said.
MG updated their website 1st October
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19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:
You're not going to find one for 599k, as one poster tried locating.
So new price is 829k, and 2 yr old insured value is 590k = ~28% depreciation over 2 yrs. Much better than our ICE version's depreciation, 695k & 400k = 42%. But it was a buyer's market, especially where we live, and w were motivated sellers. Probably could have easily got 450k for it or ~35% depreciation.
I'm going by real life experiences, and numbers that are real, new price vs insured value. The 2nd hand advertised market means nothing to me. MG marketing to get you in the showroom means nothing.
Obviously, this is a unique time to buy vehicles, with the BEV price wars, and may go on for quite sometimes, since basically a new, emerging 'mass produced now', technology.
Depreciation is only relevant to those selling after a few years vs people (us) planning on keeping till it dies or repurposed into the solar system.
Before coming to TH, I was a 'hold 'em' till they die vehicle owner. First 3 POS new cars I bought here .. well ... you get what you pay for. So very happy MG arrived as quite happy with both ZSs and price points compared other offerings.
Still just a machine to get from point A to B. Though do enjoy the better performing and comfy ride over previous 3 POS, (Toyota & Mazda) we had before the ZSs. Especially when O&A, exploring locally or beyond.
You not going to find a new one at B829 as MG reduced the price to B599K as they wanted to clear the remaining stock before the replacement model comes in next year
And you wife confirmed with your local MG dealer that the B599k price was valid while stocks last as you posted here
And you posted "The 599k & 699k advert is accurate, and available a MG dealer, while supplies last. And if past sales #s are any indication, they have more than few sitting around."
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11 minutes ago, jacob29 said:
In 2023, EV sales in Thailand surged nearly eight-fold to 76,000 units, representing 12% of all vehicles sold
Sample size one.. are you being serious?
Thailand EV sales in 2023 went up 684% vs 2022
684% increase of ev sales between 2022 and 2023 not the 900% that you posted and still haven't provided a link to support that claim
There are plenty of facebook pages from various EV brands all stating that Insurance has doubled in insurance premium and that capital value has been reduced
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16 minutes ago, jacob29 said:
Your article says 100% increase in claims, not costs. EV sales increased by 900%, so they likely had more than 100% increase in policies as well.
Look foward to you providing a supporting link that EV sales have increased by 900%
You are correct the 100% increase in insurance premium was incorrect it was 122% increase in Insurance premium from B9k to B20K with a capital value reduction from B840K to B640K
as stated by the op here
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1 hour ago, KhunLA said:
Coming up on 2 years (Oct 30), of owning the 2022 MG ZS EV, and still Lovin' It. Can't think of any negatives for us. Really like the ZS, ICE & E versions.
We seem to average 20k +/- kms a year. 2 yrs / 40k kms with ICE version, and now 2 yrs / 35.5k with the E version. (19.5k the 1st year). Been hanging around the house more this past year.
Half our kms are O&A, requiring CSs & hotel stays. Half our local driving is also away from the house, exploring locally (50-125 kms, one way), no CSs or hotels needed.
~95%, or more, of home charging is done with solar. We really have not need for the grid, though connected for ฿26 a month, JIC.
MG dealer, service shop has been excellent, though very little needed, aside from check ups @ 10k kms. Local dealer is also their oops / body shop, and did an excellent job with our minor oops, and Roojai insurance was excellent, start to finish.
No negatives worth mentioning. BEVs fits our lifestyle & transport needs perfectly, whether car, MB or ebike.
Stated many times, for us, savings (long game) was motivation to buying, and afterwards, performance was way more impressive than expected, making it an even better choice for us. Makes driving fun again. If wanting either, highly recommend owning or at least test driving a BEV, before your next vehicle purchase.
With that, think I'm done with this thread, unless asked a specific question. I think everything I could think of was covered in the thread.
Thanks for contributing, asking questions, and helping with my choice before owning, and along the way.
HAPPY MOTORING
Solar & EV info is why I joined the forum, so thanks for all the info and assistance with those. Owning E-MB for 3 yrs, BEV for 2 years, w/Solar for 2 yrs, to compliment them. Threads on each if interested.
PEACE OUT
I think the major negatives are cost of ownership EV vs Petrol
2020 MG ZS 1.5 model D millage between 60K-80K prices on one2car range from B345K to B369K no next to nothing in depreciation from when you sold your car in 2022 at B400k
However the 2022 MG ZS EV model D has taken a huge hit in depreciation mainly from subsidy and price reductions
price before subsidy 1,189,000 baht
price after subsidy 949,000
Current price at dealers B599,000 for a brand new car
There is a MG 2022 model x millage 10K-15K advertised for B495K
depreciation and 100% increase in insurance costs + major reduction in Insurance capital value due to price reduction
I would have expect the inital price of EV insurance to have been substantially lower than ICEV on the basis that only 20 moving parts on EV compared to 2,000 on ICEV
but the killer is the EV battery which replacement costs are approx 70% of the total cost of the vehicle where compared to an ICEV there isn't a single component that costs 70% of the total cost of the vehicle
Viriyah Insurance
Mr. Surachai said that the number of EV insurance claims in the first quarter of 2024 grew by 100% compared to the first quarter of 2023. It is expected that the number of insurance claims in 2024 will grow by no less than 50% compared to 2023.
https://www.thairath.co.th/news/auto/evcar/2798462
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1 hour ago, KhunLA said:
You can't fix stupid
" IP67 dust and water-resistant rating "
Water resistant ... not 'waterproof'. I don't and won't drive our EV through deep water, or even water higher than the lowest all rubber part of the wheel, and guessing ~15 cm.
From the 'owner's manual ' ...
If you plan on driving in / through water, then a BEV may not be a wise choice.
42 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:Won't each individual vehicle have a 'wading height' ???
The wading height of the MG ZS EV is 450 mm. This means the vehicle can safely drive through water levels up to 450 mm without risking engine or electrical damage.
This is the same wading heigh as the petrol variant.
If you plan on driving in / through water, then a BEV may not be a wise choice.
Flash-flood warning for 48 provinces, including Bangkok
Flash flooding is a regular occurence in Thailand just going for a weekly shop in Makro or Big C you can come out and find the roads floodedMG produced a video of ZS driving through water
Like all other videos it doesn't show real life of a large truck or bus coming in the other direction and the amount of wash that vehicle will produce especially as some drivers believe the faster you go in flooded water the safer your vehicle will be
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7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:
Neither does ICEV if water gets into engine. I know from experience after someone drive my car into a lake. Didn't last long after that.
Take care of your vehicles, and they usually take care of you. Yea, and a little research goes a long way to avoiding known issues.
But from AN postings, it's pretty obviously most haven't a clue when it comes to vehicles. They seem to buy and recommend some real crap products.
Their bias/stupidity in choices explains a lot of their unhappy vehicle experiences. You'd think at our ages, they would have learned a bit more at this stage.
~2000 vs ~20 parts, and shouldn't take a statistician to figure those odds. Aside using a fuel that degrades every part of the vehicle it touches.
Oh well
MG ZS EV strands me after driving through water: Spends 4 months at ASC
On the mentioned date, adverse weather conditions, including heavy rainfall and water clogging on the roads (water levels up to 1-1.5 feet), posed a serious challenge to driving conditions. While navigating near Richmond Road, our vehicle was unexpectedly impacted by a surge of water from the opposite lane, caused by a passing BMTC bus. Consequently, upon reaching our destination near my residence, the car abruptly came to a halt. Despite our efforts to restart the vehicle, it failed to respond (Transmission fault showed up on the dash).
There have been several previous cases discussed on MG ZS EV forums where MG India has refused to honour warranty on the battery in the event of water damage. They seemed to have an unofficial policy where they made the customer claim insurance coverage even when it should have been covered under MG warranty. Several customers were frustrated and eventually forced to go along with this suggestion while some took MG to court. Was your insurance purchased via MG?
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/mg-zs-ev-strands-me-after-driving-through-water-spends-4-months-asc
It would be interesting to see if insurance companies published the number of ev's written off due to water ingress verus the number of ICEV written off due to water ingress
hence huge increase on EV insurance premiums
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1 hour ago, KhunLA said:
My last car in the USA was a very dependable Ford Escort. OK, it was the last model year, that it was completely made by Mazda
Did have an F-150 that served me well, before all the anti pollution crap was mandatory on vehicles. So easy to self maintain.
On Topic (as always) .... dependability should be a simple decision when realizing an ICE has ~2000 parts, and a BEV motor has ~20 parts, and seem to run forever.
You have choices ... just choose wisely
BEV doesn't run the ever if water/humidity enters the battery compartment
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18 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:
Can I ask the model number?I’ve ordered the 75T7B
I noticed one seller selling for B23K no soundbar but no option for delivery by seller own fleet
for delicate items I prefer using seller own fleet
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For Cash on Delivery new law came in from 3rd October 2024
Rights and duties of consumers
1. Open the
product. The right to open and view the product according to the announcement of the Contract Committee in front of the delivery staff, along with recording evidence in the form of photographs, videos, or others by physical inspection, such as type, color, size, and quantity. If the product does not match the order or is damaged or defective, or the product was not ordered but was delivered, the consumer has the right to refuse to accept the product and not pay.2. Rights to return products and request a refund.
The right to notify the business operator to return products and request a refund within 5 days from the date of payment and receipt of the product. If the product does not match the order or the product is damaged or defective, or the product was not ordered but was delivered, with recorded evidence in the form of photos, videos, or other means, if it is true, the consumer will receive the full amount of the product within 15 days from the date of notification of the dispute.3. Rejecting all products
In the case that the ordered products are more than 1 piece per parcel, if it appears that the product does not match the order or the product is damaged or defective, the consumer must refuse to accept or notify the return of all products, including free gifts, and return them to the business operator.4. If you are not satisfied with the product, you cannot return it.
You cannot refuse to accept the product or request a refund due to dissatisfaction with the product.-
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37 minutes ago, KhunLA said:
Not sure about that, using the ZS (ZS & VS are similar size)
Closer to the HS, as wheelbase is a bit telling ...
Most are assuming it is a revamped ZS. Although, I'm leaning toward discontinuing the ZS EV, since a hybrid is coming out for 2025.
Same with the MG3, now as a hybrid.
Maybe they want the BEVs to be a separate designated model.
ES5
MG4
EP PLUS
ES
In the UK MG is planning to retain the name ZS for the Hybrid and name the BEV replacement MG S5
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SAIC’s MG ES5 all-electric SUV debuts in China with 525 km range
Built based on SAIC’s Nebula pure electric architecture
https://carnewschina.com/2024/10/15/saics-mg-es5-all-electric-suv-debuts-in-china-with-525-km-range/
Think this is the MG ZS EV replacement which will either be in the Bangkok Motor show end of November or March next year
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24 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:
ITs a good question as they used to lock you in for the full duration - i.e. if you wanted to pay off early, you'd still have to pay the same amount.
There was a recent law / regulation change regarding this - I'm not quite sure what it is... BUT, from what I recall, its something like the above.
If after taking out 48 month finance on car
a) You want to pay it off early (before 12 months)
- You pay xx % on the first 12 months, and the outstanding amount without interest.
b) You want to pay it off early (after the first 12 months)
- You pay the remainder at a reduced rate for the next xx months, then outstanding amount without interest (or it could be a smaller rate)
Thats a pretty poor explanation - however, my point is that the finance 'situation' with regards to paying off early has improved - before you were locked in at the agreed interest. Now, there are laws to protect you from paying the full amount, .. but there is still some form of 'early pay off penalty' depending on the agreement signed.
Law was changed from 10th January 2023
The announcement of the Contract Committee on the matter of the car and motorcycle leasing business being a contract-controlled business B.E. 2565, which will be applicable only to leasing contracts made from January 10, 2566 onwards.
As for the hire-purchase contracts made before January 10, 2023, they will remain in effect until the contract ends. If the lessee’s rights are violated by the business operator, they can seek advice via the 1166 hotline or file a complaint via the OCPB Connect application or via the website www.ocpb.go.th 24 hours a day.
https://justicechannel.org/read/newlaw51-1?fbclid=
Bottom part of the website is in English
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1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:
I will try to explain. I know nothing about cars other than I like some and some not so much. I have a family and didn’t have the cash to buy when we first arrived so rented and just kept going.
My work in contractual and we are here for fixed contracts but we have family etc back home and never know how long we will be here but again that means we may be here 5 years or 2? Who knows!!??
The reason to buy is thinking that if and when we leave we will be able to sell and recoup something…..renting we are just spending 18k every month and at the end we won’t recoup anything.
We send money back every month and invest in private pension etc so to buy outright we would have to stop that for 3/4 months - hence why I prefer to buy on finance. I can put down 170-200k down payment.
buying new seems easy and straight forward - second hand I don’t want to risk and I’m not sure they do finance. Also I don’t have a Thai guarantor but someone said if you put a big enough Dow payment you don’t need one?
well I hope that helps explain a little better my situation.
advice?
Banks and non-banks are strict about car loans, asking for a 30% down payment to reduce bad debt and seize cars.
https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/finance/investment/1118155
Personally I would look at a Brand where their 2024 sales figures are not good as they might be inclined to offer you a good deal
GWM sold 310 cars in August and 4,799 for the whole of 2024
GWM are offering
GWM launches a campaign with 0% interest, low down payment, and full discounts and installment assistance
https://autolifethailand.tv/gwm-august-promotion/
Yaris cross up to 30th June sold 19,668 its been the number 1 seller in the B-SUV / Crossover for thw whole of 2024
https://autolifethailand.tv/sales-report-b-suv-crossover-june-2024/
TOYOTA VELOZ sales for 2024 until end of July was 2,121
MITSUBISHI XPANDER sales for 2024 until end of July was 6,477
https://autolifethailand.tv/sales-report-mini-mpv-july-2024/
I have always found if a vehicle is selling well no need to offer incentives
Selling a car that is under finance can be tricky as shown in this thread here
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23 minutes ago, KhunLA said:
It makes no sense to buy a new vehicle, if knowing you be gone in 2-3 years, unless you just simply want one.
Just decide what your budge is, and what's available in that budget.
Could be a comfy used ICEV, or even a new BEV, PHIEV, for the same price, or a used EV for half the new price, but sill like new.
If 2nd hand, I'd buy from a city, district, province that isn't prone to flooding.
I agree with you it is more confusing when you read the op post 2 weeks ago
So currently renting MG ZS B18,000 per month he will be in Thailand until next July and then possibly another year or 2
Doesn't want don’t want a big down payment or big monthly iinstallments no higher than B20K per month
I assume with rental Insurance , servicing costs are all built into the rental contract
and getting B600K return selling car after 3 years
If car cost was B1,000,000 and you can find any dealer willing to accept just 10% down payment leaving balance of B900,000 if that was on 0% installments over a 48 month period that would be B18,750 per month excluding road tax,insurance and servicing
he should expect to take a huge hit if he leaves next July
if he stays the full 2 years repayments to finance would be B450,000 (24XB18.750per month) leaving B150K assuming he gets the B600K on resale
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9 hours ago, RayC said:
That may well be the case, but that doesn't change my opinion that Spain will be more inclined to raise the issue of Gibraltar's sovereignity once again now that the UK is outside the EU.
When the Uk was part of the EU it didn't stop Spain raising the Issue of Gibraltar many times as detailed here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_Gibraltar
Spain tried to move the goalposts last Friday but came unstuck as their actions also affected Spainish Nationals trying to enter Gibraltar
Tit-for-tat immigration controls cause rush hour border chaos
https://www.chronicle.gi/tit-for-tat-immigration-controls-cause-rush-hour-border-chaos/
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1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:
Thanks yes I am looking at the Yaris - only issue is it seems to be smaller than my current MG ZS.
i am looking for people with experience with the following 3 cars:
TOYOTA YARIS CROSS
MITSUBISHI XPANDER CROSS
TOYOTA VELOZ
those are the 3 I am looking to buy.
There is a Veloz hybrid coming out shortly
https://www.car250.com/toyota-veloz-2024-10.html
If your looking to get a new car without putting down a downpayment you should check out Toyota leasing scheme Kinto
Yaris Cross 36 month lease B18,440 per month
https://www.kinto-th.com/Home.aspx
The necessary documents for consideration include:
1.National ID card or passport.
2.Work permit for foreign nationals working in Thailand.
3.Thai driver's license or international driving permit.
4.Various income documents such as the latest monthly salary slip, bank account statement for the past 3-6 months.It is possible to apply for the service without the need for a guarantor.
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55 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:
I did try but they said no.....
I am now looking at 3 vehicles - The Toyota Yaris Cross, The Toyota Veloz and The Mitsubishi Xpander Cross HEV. I am going to try to test drive all 3 at some point if I ever have time but I am thinking that checking them out with the family, test driving them and seeing what deals are available will help me make a decision.
Any owners of any of these cars have any advice? Thanks Anything else to look out for?
@LosLobo purchased a Yaris Cross recently maybe check past posts or maybe they can give you some useful tips
I know that the Yaris Cross has ground clearance of 210mm which is quite high as most pickup's are around 220-225mm
MG ZS has ground clearance of 177mm
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27 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:
Yes, most are working in Spain
That is incorrect the majority of the workforce working in Gibralter are Spanish nationals. Living and residents in Spain
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As you are in the 3rd year of your rental car and assuming it was brand new when you 1st started the rental have you considered asking the rental company for a price to buy the car
as your rental must have nearly paid for the car
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More than half (53 Percent) of the labour force are resident in Spain or are non Gibraltarians. According to the Government of Gibraltar's statistics, around 45 Percent of the total employee jobs, and 58% of the private sector jobs, are held by frontier workers (employees who are normally resident in Spain but are employed in Gibraltar). Around 63 Percent of the frontier workers are Spanish nationals. More than half (55 Percent) of the private sector employee jobs are held by persons who are not Gibraltarians or Other British nationalities. The public sector, on the other hand, employs mainly Gibraltarians and other British (90 Percent) [90]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibraltar#Economy
It seems that the majority of the workforce are Spanish nationals living in Spain
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1 hour ago, KhunLA said:
All vehicles across the board will be depreciating, as long as there is a price war. CN is bringing in a new era of 'auto sales', stopping the price gouging for their under performing POS,from the legacy auto makers, and it's coming to an end ... thankfully
All vehicles across the board will be depreciating as that is normal
EV's are taking an extra hit in deprecation due to lack of demand, oversupply and huge price reductions
oversupply and huge price reductions aren't happening in the ICEV as they still have an export market 86,000 vehicles exported in August
EV Owners … Real life experience & help thread
in Thailand Motor Discussion
Posted
It makes a huge difference also important to show the baseline number
if I sold one product in 2022 and then I said I increased sales by 1000% in 2023 that would mean I sold 10 products in 2023 selling 10 products not as impressive as saying sales increased by 1000%