vinny41

17 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

That's great for consumers because all those vehicles will be sold cheaper, so the numbers are still accurate.

Did you read the article from the telegraph 

As well as the changes to the market, Pigounakis claims the ZEV mandate has also introduced bizarre incentives resulting in manufacturers registering increasing proportions of battery-electric cars, many of which haven’t actually been sold, which is artificially skewing the operation of the free market.

EV sales not as they seem

The effect is to skew the market and give a false impression of the popularity of EVs in the first year of the ZEV mandate. While the headline figure is that EV registrations are showing a 14.2 per cent year-on-year increase, with a total EV mix of new car registrations of 18.1 per cent (well short of the 22 per cent required under the mandate), closer examination doesn’t look quite so rosy.

Private EV sales of 59,500 are 3.8 per cent down year on year, true fleet registrations of 142,174 are only 1.6 per cent up; it is dealer and manufacturer registrations which are up 12.8 and 27.8 per cent respectively, with demonstrator cars up 37.7 per cent and Motability registrations of 48,750 are a 110.4 per cent increase.

“The rate of rejection from Motability customers has been high,” says Pigounakis. “So many cars have been sold into this market, in fact, that Motability has called a halt to EV sales. It has decided that it has too many EVs on its fleet and manufacturers have had to draw back.” 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/how-zero-emissions-vehicle-mandate-skewing-uk-car-market/

Current price of MG4 in Thailand is B599K Current UK price of MG4 is B1,179,472

In Thailand you could buy 2 MG4 for the price that you pay for 1 MG4 in th UK

The cheapest EV in the UK was launched this year at £14,995 or B 655,121 that being the  Dacia Spring

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/electric-cars/cheap

12 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Some auto manufacturers are in trouble in the UK.  They are going to be fined around 600,000 THB per car they sell that fails to enable them to hit a 22% threshold on EV's (not sure if PHEV count, but I know a man who will comment, cue: Vinny)

 

Separate research by The Telegraph motoring desk show a litany of seemingly successful companies which, with only a month to the end of the year, are facing massive bills for non-compliance. 

 

Electric-only producers such as Tesla and BYD are obviously in the clear, with BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Jeep and Cupra – along with MG – having EV sales comfortably over this year’s 22 per cent threshold. In fact, some of those companies are trading their surplus in a carbon market that has been encouraged by Government.

 

Less comfortable are Lexus, Hyundai, Vauxhall, Honda and Audi. 

Those selling large volumes of cars, many of them uncompliant with the ZEV mandate, face the largest fines. Think Toyota, Skoda, Kia, Nissan, Volkswagen, Ford, Mazda, Jaguar Land Rover, Seat and Suzuki.

 

How the Zero Emissions Vehicle mandate is skewing the UK car market

I suspect there will be very few that will be actual fined

the auto manufacturers will be looking at their own internal fleet of vehicles were in the past where management cars may have been kept for 2 years and non- management cars kept for 3 years this year they will replace everything 

Extend the range of people and maybe discount to captive” sales, which are sales to employees, friends and families

Sell the rest to themselves or their dealers as pre registered 

Manufacturers are selling cars to themselves with demonstration car registrations showing a big year-on-year increase up 14.8 per cent. Also, up 12 per cent are “captive” sales, which are sales to employees, friends and families, dealer registrations are up two per cent and what are known as OEM sales are up 11.3 per cent.

It amounts to a lot of extra EVs which aren’t necessarily reflected

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/news/how-zero-emissions-vehicle-mandate-skewing-uk-car-market/

Looking on Autotrader there are large numbers of used cars for sale 2021-2024 with less than 50 miles on the clock both ev's and ice vehicles 

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Driving through standing water is not so much about ground clearance as it is about 'fording depth' otherwise called 'wading depth'.... 

 

The issue with this is that sometimes manufactures, especially of EV's will not provide a 'wading depth' because they may be concerned that this encourages drivers to 'use their car in flood water'... 

 

Realistically - when driving in heavy rain water gets everywhere anyway - thus the wading depth of any EV is going to be similar to that of any similar ICE.

Majority of vehicles that have higher  ground clearance also have the highest wading depth as seen here

https://www.autodeal.com.ph/articles/car-features/vehicles-high-water-wading-depth

The only exception to the rule is the forums favourite The Nissan leaf  which has a wading depth of 700mm with a ground clearance of 155mm

https://www.wapcar.my/news/900-mm-wading-depth-top-5-best-cars-for-driving-through-floods-in-malaysia-9934

6 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

... and young vinny41 thinks this 50 mm makes a big difference? 

If the water level is 180mm that does make a difference if the ground clearance of your vehicle is only 161mm

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

But the MG will drive through a flood, the Yaris won't. 

 

Ground clearance is irrelevant.

Ground clearance is relevant and there are numerous reports of MG ZS EV batteries damaged due to water ingress

I see on MG cars that have the lifetime warranty there is a new service item every 12 months or 20,000 km

Cleaner and protector for high voltage cables, B1,265 excluding vat

High-voltage wire cleaning and maintenance spray, especially suitable for electric vehicles. Protect and maintain the wires of your beloved EV, keep them clean like new with High Voltage Harness Cleaner & Protect spray. Properties of wire cleaning and maintenance spray 1. Effectively removes oil stains, dust and dirt on the outside of the wire harness, rubber and plastic parts. 2. Able to keep the surface of the wire harness and rubber and plastic parts clean for a long time, which facilitates heat dissipation of the wire harness. Can effectively reduce corrosion of hazardous substances. 3. Helps extend the lifespan and slow down the formation of brittleness of plastic and rubber parts effectively

Flood water damage resulting in full battery replacement

https://www.mgevs.com/threads/flood-water-damage-resulting-in-full-battery-replacement.16373/

MG ZS EV strands me after driving through water: Spends 4 months at ASC

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/mg-zs-ev-strands-me-after-driving-through-water-spends-4-months-asc

57 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yep ... ICEV, unless having a snorkel is limited to the depth of the exhaust.  BEVs are not.

 

Not that I would drive my BEV or any car through water that would touch the bottom of the car.  But I certainly wouldn't worry about not making it through a silly large area of water on the road, vs not even attempting in an ICEV.

 

I think our battery pack is rated for about 30 mins of submersion, and nope, won't be testing that out any time soon.

 

 

MG ZS EV Ground Clearance 161mm

Yaris Cross Ground Clearance 210mm

Yaris Cross Ground clearance is 49mm more than MG ZS EV 

2 hours ago, SiSePuede419 said:

I see lots of EV cars in Chiang Rai.  Their popularity has exploded in the past 2 years.  But during the recent flooding in October when there was standing water in certain areas for a few days, did not see one EV car going through the floodwater.

My wife's cousin came to rescue us after we took a BOAT out of our house (no electric, no water) to take us to a hotel in a Yaris.

A Yaris was a better vehicle in a flood than any EV car*

 

A Yaris. 😭

 

*I'm a EE who worked for an EV startup in Silicon Valley, so I know what I am talking about unlike some of the Chinese salespeople here sprouting off talking points 

Its more likely that the yaris you were in was the Yaris Cross model where the ground clearance is 210mm

where the standard yaris ground clearance is 135mm 

Yaris Cross ground clearance is similar to some pickup trucks for example

The 2022 Mitsubishi Triton GLX (4x2) has a ground clearance of 200 millimeters

EV ground clearance examples

BYD Seal has a ground clearance of 145 mm

Atto3  ground clearance 175mm

7 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Battery prices were forecast to drop about 50% this year, I think this is one of the major reasons we are seeing price cuts.  I doubt these cuts will be temporary.

Once the oversupply issue has been resolved  should expect a price increase of between 10-15% due to higher manufacturing for EV manufacturing in Thailand

Last year the price of a battery pack fell by 10-14%, said the FTI.

As total car sales in Thailand decline, EV manufacturers, particularly those from China, need to carefully manage their production costs, including expensive EV components and the high cost of energy bills in Thailand, said Mr Shen.

The prices of domestically sourced car parts for EV assembly are typically 10-15% higher than those produced in China, he said.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2904017/raft-of-issues-hindering-ev-industry

4 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

i don't think we'll see much more price cuts from byd thailand in the next few months ... this prices are now only slightly higher than in china  ... 

Bloomberg reported that China's leading electric carmaker BYD has asked suppliers to accept "further price cuts" next year , a sign that the EV maker is bracing for a more intense price war in 2025 .

A partial screenshot of an email purporting to be from a Shenzhen-based auto giant went viral on social media on Wednesday (Nov 27), demanding a 10% price cut for an unnamed supplier from January, which turned out to be from BYD .

https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/world/1155489

23 minutes ago, Pib said:

Seems the cut throat pricing and price war is still in full swing.

It was reported in the news that they are clearing out Imported stock as Thai version of the seal will be released shortly further price reduction  on  imported atto 3

BYD Atto3 (MY2024) 100% electric car

Official price (CBU imported from China)

Atto 3 410 Dynamic  899,900 759,900 baht

Atto 3 480 Extended Range  1,049,900  899,900 baht

* 140,000 baht discount on the Atto3 410 Dynamic model from 899,900 to 759,900 baht and 150,000 baht discount on the Atto3 480 Extended Range model from 1,049,900 to 899,900 baht, Motor Expo 2024 campaign.

https://autolifethailand.tv/official-price-byd-atto3-discount-motor-expo-2024/

Nissan sells portion of Mitsubishi Motors’ shares

November 7, 2024

YOKOHAMA, Japan – Nissan Motor Co., Ltd. today announced sale of up to 149,028,300 shares (approximately 10.02% of Mitsubishi Motors Corporation (MMC) the total number of issued shares (excluding treasury shares)) reducing its current 34.07% stake (506,620,577 shares) in MMC.

https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/241107-03-e

After recent share sale Nissan still own 24% of Mitsubishi Motors

Logitech M720 Triathlon can use bluetooth or usb receiver

 mouse can be connected to  on 3 different devices

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Do you mean the BYD Seagull ( called the Dolphin Mini in some markets ) ?

 

 

In which case I don’t know, maybe the Motor Show will shed some light on this although the focus will be on Sealion 07 .

 

Seems like it has been talked about for a while already but who knows maybe it will come, same for the Shark pickup, seems like Thailand has a market for both.

Imported EV pickup trucks no subsidy

Thai locally builtEV  pickup trucks B100K subsidy until the end of 2027

20 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I’m sure my daughters could explain your thesis, but they are ‘hard at it’ studying at Payap University while I have to slum it in my Executive Suite at the Dusit Princess Hotel on Phu Quoc. Please sympathize with me.

 

 

Are you testing out your favorite brand of EV since they have delayed their launch in Thailand

VinFast Secures Top Market Position in Vietnam

Hanoi, November 12, 2024 – VinFast announced it has delivered more than 11,000 electric vehicles (EVs) to domestic customers in October, bringing its total sales since the beginning of the year to over 51,000 EVs. This positions VinFast as the best-selling automotive brand in the Vietnamese market for October and the first ten months of 2024. VinFast is confident in maintaining its domestic leadership and contributing to the green transition of Vietnam’s transportation sector.

Following strong sales in September 2024, VinFast continued its momentum in October by delivering more than 11,000 EVs—a 21% increase over the previous month. The VF 3 and VF 5 were the top-selling models, with nearly 5,000 EVs and over 2,600 EVs sold, respectively.

https://vinfastauto.us/investor-relations/news/vinfast-secures-top-market-position-in-vietnam#:~:text=Hanoi

37 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I didn’t understand your last post Vinny, could you explain it in more detail, please?

As you have previously mentioned both your daughters are in University I am sure they can explain the post if you don't understand

 I am sure the Chinese shareholders and the fully paid up ev influencers reading this forum understood my post 

30 minutes ago, atpeace said:

Fair enough but what is the trend over the last 5-10 years?  I think you would agree that there are many variables that have a large impact on ICE and EV sales.  You can pick cherry pick a geographic region or a period of time but that is disingenuous.  Car sales are down in 2024 as a whole( EV numbers are slightly up), no EV incentives, and the economy is struggling just to name a few variables.

 

Passenger car sales in Thailand have had huge swings over the last 2 decades. Some years dropping 20% yet EV sales are still growing ( not by much ) this year when ICE sales down substantially.  Car manufacturing was down ~ 17% the first 6 months of this year!

 

I'm still not convinced EVs will dominate the passenger car market in the coming decades but is sure seems likely.  When EVs have 600-1000 km range as the norm, they are cheaper, and the charging network improves, do you really think ICE will be the vehicle of choice for most (not all) buyers?  

 

I force myself to look at the EV revolution with doubt.  There is quite a bit of positive data but will the current batteries last 10-20 years? I like real world ownership data and at this point that isn't available.  I decided on an entry level EV and still have my truck.  The truck is great to load up with trash but that is all I use it for now. 

 

The EV is free to drive and now I drive MUCH more because it is free. Camping will be great during the heat of the day when I can draw 3000 watts from the car to run an AC and power electroncis. Already have a LFP battery and don't need PEA but if shtt happens with my system I have a car that could power my house for days.  Down the road I'm sure there will be things that need to be replaced but so far it has been a wonderful experience.

 

I have too much time on my hands to ramble 🙂

There are still various subsidies in place for EV for this year until the end of 2027 under the BEV 3.5 incentive policy they are divided into 2 sections

1) Passenger Bev For both imported and locally assembled passenger BEVs based on battery sizes and price

2)  For BEV pick-up trucks and e-motorcycles (locally assembled ones only): for pick-up trucks based on weight price and battery size

Passenger Bev subsidy is reducing each year while Thailand built  BEV pick-up trucks and e-motorcycles for subsidy remains the same for the period 2024- until end of 2027

This article contains all the details on the various subsidies 

https://www.ey.com/en_gl/technical/tax-alerts/thailand---subsidies--duties--excise-tax-incentives-to-encourage

The entire car market in Thailand has changed 

in the case of the used car market there has been huge increase over the past 2 years of repossessions which has had an knock on affect to the used car market due to oversupply of additional cars entering the used car market and banks and finance companies selling those vehicles for whatever they are offered and then going after the original purchaser or the guarantor if the sale of the vehicle doesn't cover the outstanding balance

when we look at car buyers in Thailand they should be divided into 2 groups

Expats and Thai

Majority of expats normally pay for their vehicles in cash while the majority of Thai nationals tend to finance their vehicle purchase

Some Thai nationals will pay cash and likewise some expats will pay for their vehicles via finance however I supect they are in the  minority

In the past people would keep their vehicles for 4/5 years received a reasonable trade in value for their vehicle and used that for the down payment on a new vehicle Banks and finance  companies are now asking for down payments of between 25% upwards as they are concerned about NPL (  repossessions )

I have seen many reports in the facebook groups of people deciding to keep their existing vehicles longer due to the low offer they have received on their trade-ins

over the next few years we should find out how long batteries last as between this year and 2032 there are over 20 million ev's in china where there battery warranty has ended 

Nio's William Li urges more focus on battery life as warranties expire on nearly 20 million NEVs over next 8 years

Li said batteries with lifetimes of up to 15 years are technically feasible, but it will take a concerted effort by the entire industry to advance the goal.

https://cnevpost.com/2024/03/17/nio-william-li-urges-more-focus-on-battery-life/

In the USA Nissan has started a buyback scheme as batteries are failing within the 8 year warranty period and Nissan are having problems sourcing replacement batteries with some owners reporting waiting for 12 months or longer 

Just received a call from Nissan offering a repurchase for my 2016 SV Nissan leaf 30kwh, said new battery might take 6 months to a year, has anyone with the same vehicle taken the repurchase ? Mine currently has 98,000 miles and is in a good overall condition. If yes to my question could you tell me how much was your repurchase offer ? Or any idea how much is worth ? I'm in USA Texas

https://www.facebook.com/groups/NissanLeafOwners/posts/7030862667011662/

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I took this graphic from the EV Club Thailand group on Facebook.

 

It’s fairly clear EV market share is increasing substantially and this can only mean the ICE market share is decreasing.  
 

I thought I better post it as it’s clear young Vinny is either not able or capable.

 

 

Here is the full graphic from  EV Club Thailand group on Facebook. which shows 2023 and 2024  registration figures and market share

number of EV sales in 2023 was approx 90,000 and December sales are shown in January 2024 ev registration numbers

18 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

No surprise there, as they were primarily going to produce the Neta s.   Since CN put a hold on that, would seem silly for TH to do it on their own.  Without the Neta, makes sense to wait & see, before diving into battery production, as image that would have been for the Neta s also.

I think you will find that Neta had talks with PTT about PTT providing  a factory for building neta cars in Thailand 

In the end Neta selected a different company

NETA's EV manufacturing plant in Thailand is a collaboration between NETA and Bangchan General Assembly Co., Ltd.

https://www.neta.co.th/en/news/brands-pr-news/NETAproductioninThailand

Neta V” is not an EV brand “PTT” “Arun Plus” moves forward with a complete production plant

https://www.bangkokbiznews.com/auto/1038676

So the planned new factory was for Arun Plus PTT own brand of EV 

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I took this graphic from the EV Club Thailand group on Facebook.

 

It’s fairly clear EV market share is increasing substantially and this can only mean the ICE market share is decreasing.  
 

I thought I better post it as it’s clear young Vinny is either not able or capable.

 

 

I think you must be smoking something strong if you  think  the EV market share is increasing substantially based on those numbers I don't think the EV brand manufacturers would agree with you since if demand was outstripping supply I am not aware of any industry that if demand was greater than supply would feel the need to resort to price reductions to increase their sales

As previously stated many times before EV were available ICEV had 100% market share so it only takes to sell 1 EV for ICE vehicles market share  to be  decreasing.  

As for your request to do the research I chosed the option if you want the figures you should provide them yourself and you would have found it takes a lot of time and effort

where looking at 2 links from 2023 and 2024 on Ev registrations took approx 2 minutes

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

Vinny, you’re nothing more than an old troll peddling misinformation.

Where is the misinformation. and I believe from a mod post becuase people don't agree with your views doesn't mean they are trolls

I provided link for current ev registrations January to October 2024

and the whole of 2023

look at the 2023 link look at the total number of EV registrations remove the November and December figures and you have total number of ev registrations for the period of January to October 2023

then compared that with the 2024 link that shows total number of ev registrations for the period of January to October 2024 that is how you reach a YOY % increase of 2.159% difference between 2023 and 2024

1 hour ago, HighPriority said:

Vinny, or do you never buy one and miss out on the benefits ?

Here an idea you walk into your car dealership you looking for a new car

the salesman offers you 3 sealed envelopes

envelope 1 shows the current market price

envelope 2 shows the price after the 1st price reduction because the car isn't selling in the numbers that the brand require

envelope 3 show the price after the 2nd price reduction 

Now if you absoutely need a new car next week or next month people will be forced to go with envelope 1

the others will more than likely walk out of the door and wait for envelope 2 or envelope 3 pricing

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

Vinny, you can post absolute numbers but you’re incapable of researching percentages?

 

I believe EV market share has grown massively and ICE market share has declined massively.

 

I thought you might be capable enough to extrapolate those figure, apparently, I’m wrong. Perhaps someone more capable will do that.

I was always told if you want something done do it yourself

You want to know market share to support your beliefs even when the absolute numbers on the door show a different view

meanwhile a new EV Factory in Thailand has been put on hold

Read More: https://www.kaohooninternational.com/markets/548215

 

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Perhaps you could quote market shares instead of absolute numbers, they we can see buyer behavior.

Sorry No can do  and buyer behavior or market share  doesn't sell cars

going forward I think the Chinese EV Brands are going to have to rethink how they sell cars

Maybe one solution would be a  Guaranteed Future Value based on part costs

so you take the 20 most expensive parts of a new EV and the brand offers you a GFV value taking into account wear and tear useage etc etc

3 hours ago, atpeace said:

Not a banner year for the auto industry. As stated in the article car manufacturing is down 17% but on the bright side the article states a slight growth of about 5% for EVs. In this environment it is surprising EV manufacturing is still expected to increase.  I thought Thailand EV sales would surely drop without the incentives and the slow economy.

Currently YOY ev registrations for 2024 for period 1st January 2024 to 31st October 2024 are 59,327 an increase of 2.159% over same period in 2023

 ev registrations for same period 2023 numbers are 58,074

EV sales for the whole of 2023 was approx 90,000

EV sales for 2024 currently are 45,674 

We will have to wait and see if 45,000 ev are sold between November 1st and 31st December 2024

problem I see if your buying a new car that costs B1 million baht do you buy when launched at B1 million or do you wait for 1st priice reduction after 7-8 months and buy at B750,000 or do you wait for 15 months and buy at 50% price reduction of B500,000 

https://autolifethailand.tv/total-ev-bev-register-2023-thailand/

https://autolifethailand.tv/ev-register-oct-2024-thailand/

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Changing a 21 year-old girl's opinion is like trying to herd cats.

I am sure if you dangle the seal keys in front of her she might say okay Dad