vinny41

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I wouldn't put too much stock in Thai news, especially Thaiger and BP ... IMHO

same article in the Thai examiner

Chinese EV players in Thailand may opt out of subsidies as a difficult year ends. But there is optimism for electric cars

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/12/06/chinese-ev-players-in-thailand-may-opt-out-of-subsidies-as-a-difficult-year-ends-but-there-is-hope/

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Actually everything.  Once the little war is over, and especially if the govt incentives end or aren't passed on the consumer, they'll all be raising their prices back to before the war.  EV will be selling for original MSRP, or close to.

 

With that, 2nd hand cars will be going up in price.

 

The insured value of our MG ZS EV when first purchased was based on MSRP, without incentive of 240k baht.   1.189M baht vs 949k baht (purchase price).  Insured value was 960k, 11k more than purchase price 

 

Same when we renewed the first year, just before the price war, and insured value again, was about same price of new ZS EV. 👍

 

Renewed couple months ago, and discount price of ZS EV (though never heard or read anyone actually buying one) was 599k, and new full price, was 829k, w/incentive.    New insured value, dropped to 590k.  Based on new price, with incentive now, depreciation now a bit more normal. about 15% a year.

 

If new ZS EV went back to original MSRP of 1M plus, and no incentives, then 2nd hand prices would also go up.   I would think.   That should be across the board, ICEV & EV, as now less completion, so ICEVs would also get a boost.  Our 2020 ZS (ICE) was 695k.

 

In theory ...   Incentives won't last forever, and they can't afford the price war for ever, as they can't be making much profit at these price.  Especially the ICEVs, as still getting hit with excise tax, which runs about 25% of the car value, before added on.

There are some brands that are selling In Thailand without subsidies as they haven't signed  the mou MOU to join the EV 3.5 import and production

Geely is one Chinese brand that hasn't signed 

Since GEELY Auto did not sign the MOU to join the EV 3.5 import and production compensation project, it did not receive a 100,000 baht discount per vehicle. The official price announcement will be held at Motor Expo 2024 on November 28, 2024 @ Challenger Hall 1-3, Muang Thong Thani.

https://autolifethailand.tv/geely-ex5-ev-bev-thailand-28nov-2024-thonburi/

The brands that did sign up are having a rethink and may withdraw from the EV 3.5 program which means they will have to build 1.5 cars  for every car imported into Thailand between 2022 until the period where they withdraw from the EV 3.5 program but wouldn't be required to build 1.5 cars in Thailand for every car sold after they withdraw from EV 3.5

“Many firms are mulling over ditching the subsidies.

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/thailand-ev-makers-reconsider-incentive-scheme-amid-market-slump

EV makers mull forgoing subsidies

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2915032/ev-makers-mull-forgoing-subsidies

I am not aware of any excise tax that is applied to ICEV made in Thailand yes there are various import taxes for all vehicles including BEV if they are imported into Thailand 

excise tax depends on value on the vehicle and engine size

42 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

Oh man, it was a done deal and now you got me thinking….😱……I know someone who has just bought an MG VS…..and that made me think…..

 

does anyone know if they are good? Anyone own either the new MG VS or ZS?

 

I was set on the atto3 and had gotten past the uncertainty of resale value, gotten past the wall charger and convinced I could used one of the cheaper alternatives and just a wall socket and also convinced myself charging at anoetrol station wasn’t a problem even though I’ve looked more and there does seem to be a lot of cars doing it at the petrol station close to my home even saw some waiting…..

then a friend told me today they bought an MG VS for 699……

 

anyone own an MG?

There should be little to no difference on the MG ZS  currently on sale today to the MG ZS that you have been driving for the past 2 years

5 hours ago, carlyai said:

Yesterday went for a test drive in the BYD Sealion 7 AWD. We loved it.

Is fast, but one complaint I have with out Honda CRV 2WD is it has no real passing power if things are mis-judged. It's all right for me as I've been driving a good while and always drop it down manually before I pass. But the Wifey sometimes gets herself passing where she maybe shouldn't  and doesn't just break and drop back in behind the car she is trying to pass. With a more powerful car this would be safer. Just put the foot down and pass.

As was mentioned before BYD have a price increase if no deposit by 10th Dec. Dealer said B100000 more expensive.

Honda would only give us B180000 for our well maintained, very good 2014 Honda CRV 2WD.

If BYD can give us around B300000 we'll put a deposit down today. I don't know the price of second-hand vehicles.

BYD also want an extra B20000 for the charger.

 

Here is BYD early bird offer which ends 10th December

for the  BYD Sealion 7 AWD the price should increase by B150K 

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/news/byd-sealion-7-price-announcement

within in these prices it includes the EV 3.5 subsidy which currently is B100K for 2024 but will be reduced to B75K for 2025

Have to wait and see if Byd will absorb the B25K subsidy reduction or pass it back to the customer

EV prices may increase in 2025 if Chinese EV manufacturers withdraw from the EV 3.5 subsidy program

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/motoring/2915032/ev-makers-mull-forgoing-subsidies

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/12/06/chinese-ev-players-in-thailand-may-opt-out-of-subsidies-as-a-difficult-year-ends-but-there-is-hope/

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You're right, because they don't want your car, they will offer less than they get from a tent as they want to make a profit on it, oft times they are guessing what a tent will offer them so have to be careful.

I went into a dealership and they offered less than the tent price so I assume the salesperson deducted their own commission for making the call to the tent

I went to a number of tents and was offered a higher price for cash 

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Doubtful, as so many other product, hobbies, sports can be harmful to children.  Look at the crap that they allow them to eat.  

 

And who is to judge, the same folks that force experimental drugs / vaccines on people, or the ones that think men can get pregnant.  The folks that allow diesel vehicles in urban areas.

 

You can't ban and or restrict products because people are irresponsible.  What next, sharp knives, bicycle, sports.   If you could, they would have done that a long time ago.  Wouldn't be hard to put speed limiters on all vehicles to do the speed limit, down to 55 mph or 90 kph.

 

Stricter enforcement of current laws apparently doesn't work, as USA is quite strict with traffic laws, and yet, far from the safest country to drive in.

 

You could end most of the MVA deaths in TH, by simply banning driving a MC without a helmet, and 2nd time caught, confiscate the MC.  Within a few months, everyone would be wearing a helmet.

 

I'm all for freedom of most things, just adjust the law, so that others aren't responsible.  Kill someone on a MC, without a helmet, no matter who's fault, the striking vehicle following the law, isn't responsible, and the idiot doesn't get compensated or covered by insurance.

 

Easy solutions, but not in the present societies we live in.  Lawsuits is an industry within itself ... profits are #1

 

Idiots walk & drive among us ... defensive driving.   Speed kills, teach you kids that, and how to drive, and they'll live longer ... maybe.

 

Parents need to start being parents, not friends to their kids.

I can remember back in the 70s there was a huge backlash in the USA over mandatory seatbelts and later drivers airbags automakers didn't want either option but at later date opted for seatbelts being less expensive than airbags

https://www.history.com/news/seat-belt-laws-resistance

36 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

All of the cars I have previously owned in Thailand have had 'any driver' insurance (first class).

 

With our EV, we could not have 'any driver' - both my Wife and I had to be Named Drivers - we were told this is an insurance regulation for EV's.

 

I'm not sure how true that is - its difficult to find out unless calling lots of insurance companies, and asking others on this forum etc  (but it was 1st year insurance included with the car so there was little we could do about it).

 

 

When your EV is as fast 0-100 kmh as the Ferrari Testarossa was... then I can see why the insurance companies want to be more careful. 

Named drivers for EVs's came into force June 1st this year as part of changes to EV insurance

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

So do you see them mandating only fast EV's or BMW M series cars too?

The scope of any such mandate would be down to the people putting forward such laws

if you go to MG and ask them to give you a written guarantee that they will never limited  or place restrictions on EV  acceleration

I would expect the stock answer will be they have no plans to  limited  or place restrictions on EV  acceleration all our cars currently comply with Thai laws

but i suspect they will never provide you with a written guarantee that would put them in direct conflict if a law was passed in the future

2 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Nonsense.  I can see businesses with fleets doing this voluntarily, but governments mandating it, it's not going to happen, it doesn't matter how many children are killed.

 

A similar approach to that with motorbikes might be possible.  Age restricted on driving licences (say up to 150 hp under 25 years old). 
A normal driving licence and a Supercar driving licence, possibly with mandated extra training needed for high performance cars is another possibility.

 

Fitting limiters only to EV's will never happen, it's like saying only the rich can drive fast cars (they buy Porsche's etc).  Impossible, political suicide.

 

You haven't thought it through Vinny.

 

Regarding Porsche Innodrive, my BYD has the same thing, Intelligent Cruise Control, it will slow you down at changing speed limits and restore to high speed afterwards.  It's here today, but it's nothing to do with restricting power.

Goverments will mandate if people are killed in high numbers especially if the high numbers are children

Porsche InnoDrive

Porsche InnoDrive offers optimised speed control for additional comfort, higher efficiency and a driving experience typical for Porsche. Based on navigation data together with radar and video sensors, the driving speed is predictively adapted to speed limits and road topology (gradients, bends). Acceleration and deceleration (including coasting) are controlled by Porsche InnoDrive. The system's ability to anticipate distances of up to three kilometres, as well as real-time optimisation of the driving strategy, enable harmonious and efficient journeys. Porsche InnoDrive also automatically adjusts the speed to allow for bends, roundabouts and speed limits. It detects the distance to the vehicle in front and controls it even when a vehicle cuts in from the side.

The basic design of the system is engineered for maximum comfort. It optimises the driving style in order to achieve the highest possible degree of smoothness with as few acceleration and braking processes as possible.

https://media.porsche.com/mediakit/taycan/en/porsche-taycan/die-assistenzsysteme

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I disagree.

 

To do that you would have to limit all cars with high performance.  What about all the BMW M variants, Mercedes AMG variants, Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Porsche's.

 

What you are saying is impossible.

Doesn't matter that you disagree or you think its impossible 

all it will take is a large number of child deaths and it will happen

There is a company that offers a hardware based solution so software solutions will be available

Here are some of the benefits on restricting  acceleration

The advantages of a RPM limiter:

Increased mileage from a full battery charge.

Enhanced comfort for passengers.

Up to 20% longer range. Reduced wear and tear on brakes and tires.

Improved efficiency of your vehicle.

Configurable in combination with a speed limiter.

https://www.zemco.eu/blogs/accelerator-limiter/

Electric vehicle acceleration poses 'risk and cost issues' for fleets

Greater rates of acceleration for electric vehicles (EVs), compared to their internal combustion engine (ICE) counterparts, is creating potential fleet risk management and cost issues, FleetCheck is warning.

Vehicles with this kind of performance would not just present a very real risk if drivers attempted to access the available performance on a public road, but there would be cost issues arising from excessive tyre and brake wear, he argues.

“Of course, there have been privately-owned cars on public roads that go this fast for some years, but the numbers have been tiny,” he continued.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/electric-vehicle-acceleration-poses-risk-and-cost-issues-for-fleets

If we see a major accident that kills a huge number of children due to excessive and dangerous EV vehicle acceleration I would expect immediate mandates from governments  to  liimited the vehicle acceleration

my understanding such a change would be implemented via a software update

1 hour ago, Yodarapper said:

My head is definitely spinning mate! Probably just my over thinking nature…..

went again today and saw the atto3 and the M6. Wife asked for us to test drive and wife and kids loved it but to me it seems less….nice. More room but the driver seat is lower and doesn’t feel so premium.

good things I guess is the 7 seater and bigger battery means more km but everything in be read puts the atto3 as a better car?

current offer means both are same price. But in thinking the atto3 is a better option because it’s a better car? 
thoughts?

deleted

7 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

If I were Yodarapper my head would be spinning.

 

For me, the solution is obvious.

 

Typical maximum journey is 185km to Rayong.  There are more than a dozen fast chargers on the way to Rayong and lots in Rayong.

 

He doesn't need an extended range vehicle, the standard Atto 3 is fine, but by all means go for the extended if you prefer.  It will get you to Rayong with as much again spare.  Top up on the way back at any of the chargers on the way back, I would top up at the first one for about 15-20 minutes to avoid range anxiety.

 

Next the issue of the home charger.  I would be budgeting 15,000 baht maximum (I may be as cheap as 9,500 baht) for a plug in 7Kw portable wall box, asking my landlord if I could fit a 32 amp socket where I park the car to allow EV charging, it improves the rentability of the property, he would be mad to say no.  Perhaps it costs 3-7,000 for that, that is the only wasted expenditure when you move to a new property, you unplug and take the charger with you.

 

You should not consider an ICE car, you've already driven the Atto and know how superior it is to drive over an ICE.

 

I think it would help if instead of bombarding Yodarapper with possibilities and information, we advised what we would do, bearing in mind a wall box is not included.

 It was @Yodarapper that posted he was looking at the atto3 extended and from his previous posts he stated ideally his preferance was for 7 seats has he has family coming over from Europe

New taxes for EVs

Excise taxes will be lowered for HEV makers that make an additional investment of at least three billion baht from 2024 to 2027 and use local parts, Mr Narit said. Vehicles will also need to have advanced driver-assistance systems to qualify, he said.
The EV Board also agreed to extend the production period of battery electric vehicles (BEV) under the so-called EV3 measure, which aims to propel EV industry growth. The measure comprises subsidies, reduced import duties for fully assembled cars and an excise tax cut.

However, between 2022 and 2023, about 84,000 EVs were imported under the EV3 measure, which means 124,000 vehicles must be produced in 2025.

But due to the current declining car sales, the EV Board decided to extend the production period to help the manufacturers, Mr Narit said.Some EV makers previously raised concerns that EVs produced locally under EV3.0 may have higher prices than EVs imported under EV3.5, putting them at a competitive disadvantage.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2914210/new-taxes-for-evs
 

8 hours ago, Yodarapper said:

What about the m6 - that has a range of 520 km? That’s a lot more than the atto3 right?

the Kia EV 5 also has more range?

M6 Extended has range of 530km they also have new model with 7 seats for B899K

https://autolifethailand.tv/official-discount-price-byd-m6-ev-thailand-motor-expo-2024/

https://www.reverautomotive.com/news/byd-m6-7-seat-price-announcement

38 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

Do we know which models Toyota is selling well at the motor show?

These are not sales these are bookings normally as a rule the number of bookings doesn't end with the same number of registrations

I have never seen a model by brand breakdown in these motorshow figures

21 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

What about the m6 - that has a range of 520 km? That’s a lot more than the atto3 right?

the Kia EV 5 also has more range?

Kia EV 5 price range from B1,299,000 – 1,799,000 

Light / Air Maximum driving distance per full charge is 490 kilometers (NEDC standard).

Earth Long Range Maximum driving distance per full charge is 665 kilometers (NEDC standard).

Earth Exclusive AWD Maximum driving distance per full charge is 620 kilometers (NEDC standard).

EV5 Earth Long Range : 1,599,000 baht

EV5 Earth Exclusive AWD : 1,799,000 baht

Atto 3 480 Extended Range   899,900 baht during Motor show

So nearly B700K extra  for EV5 Earth compared to atto 3 480 extended

6 minutes ago, Pib said:

There will always be new EV batteries coming out that will be hyped as a BIG improvement but in the real world they will simply be minor/significant improvements.   If a person continues to wait for the next big improved EV battery they will probably never buy an EV because they will always be waiting.   That's what Mr. Toyota wants.

Blade 2 battery has been talked about for the past 18 months the Electric EV God in  Australia has stated the blade 2 battery has extended cycle life and if he was looking for a Byd car currently he would wait

He has received confirmation from Byd as to the period that the blade 2 battery will be launched next year

27 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think we are looking at 3+ years down the line for these new blade batteries to appear in the models being sold in Thailand.

We haven’t seen the Seal platform 3.0 Evo yet.

 

in terms of affecting resale value, that is going to taper, depending on the age of the vehicle. Anybody who bought the old technology a year before the new technology is likely to be hit, but anybody with a car three years old, I doubt it’ll make any difference whatsoever. That means anybody buying a car now is unlikely to be affected at all.

I agree with your timeline for existing Byd models sold in Thailand although I suspect the byd blade 2 battery will come too Thailand for high end Byd models not announced yet more so if BYD competitors launch new models into Thailand with either the Qilin battery or the Shenxing PLUS battery both have similar ranges to the blade 2 battery

Its unlikely that Byd will allow any of their competitors to take Byd market share in Thailand without a fight

3 minutes ago, Yodarapper said:

 

Would this video give you pause if you were thiking of buying a BYD EV now??

Well the electric viking indicated in the video he would delay purchase

There are many unknowns which models will the blade 2 battery appear in 

will the blade 2 battery appear in any of the current models 

I would hazzard a guess that blade 2 initally  wouldn't appear in any of the current models

and due to worldwide supply and demand will be aimed at new top end models

In 2027 will blade 2 batteries appear in all models both future and existing is anyone guess

If current models and models with blade 2 appear in the showroom at the same price its a no-brainer that people will opt for the blade 2 battery

will it have a huge impact on resale values I would say yes it will

43 minutes ago, malathione said:

You and I obviously visit different parts of the country or the EV charging maps are not accurate. I suspect the former.

Byd blade 2 battery launching in 1st 6 months of 2025 rumors 1200km range

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

I think EV owners are more mindful of floods, I don't think any EV owner would deliberately take their car through a flood.  Both times I did it, I had already traveled 90km and didn't want to turn around.  I think it's the Wuling EV they demonstrate as amphibious here, it can float and cross floods.

There was a number of EV vehicles in Chiang Rai Province 2 months ago

If we look at the pictures and clips that RIDDARA Thailand posted, it is possible that at the very least, the depth of the floodwater that the RD6 can wade through is just above the lower edge of the passenger compartment door. Of course, in actual driving, it is possible that the water could have risen a little higher.

But at the very least, it will definitely flood the battery pack and the drive motor, as the vehicle is only about 220 millimeters above the ground, which is lower than many lifted pickup trucks.

https://www.ridebuster.com/news/riddara-rd6-flood-chaing-rai-rescue/

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

You may be right, I hope you aren't, in my opinion Hybrids are a con unless they are plug-in.

There are many different cons

Here is one the last time the UK Government advised people on what type of vehicles they should buy

It should be remembered that the UK Government has an outstanding record when it comes to advising their citizens on the types of vehicles to buy
2001 Gordon Brown slashed tax on diesel to entice drivers to switch from petrol
because diesels produce much lower carbon dioxide emissions than petrol cars. that's what we were told at the time
Dash for Diesel
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41985715

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Yes I read it, I knew you would enjoy it which is why I posted it.

I suspect Hybrids will be added to the 22% mandate

UK could loosen EV rules to allow sales of Prius-style hybrids until 2035

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/nov/29/uk-could-loosen-ev-rules-to-allow-sales-of-prius-style-hybrids-until-2035