vinny41

47 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

HEV's are more economical around town and in stop-start driving, they are slightly worse than non-HEV on long distance, runs because of the extra weight.

 

 

Again, One Swallow does not a Summer make.

Sales figures for BEV in Thailand for 2024 8,670

Sales figures for HEV in Thailand for 2024 23,958

59 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

Spend a little more money PE-BC and keep the blood pressure at ease......... 

I flew last year with China airlines in PE which has fixed fixed shell type of seats very relaxing flight more so knowing that if there was a thieving scumbag in front they  couldn't steal any of my paid for space.

What I don't like with some airlines where on the 1st leg they only offer cattle class and its only on the 2nd leg that they offer PE, I only look for airlines that offer PE for the entire route which is only 3-4 airlines

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

NO, more like power to the people, as Big Oil has lost their 'total' control of the auto industry.  Consumers are demanding better for their money, and CH is delivering.   So the rest JP, then USA eventually, will have to adjust, or get left behind.

 

To much competition / free market now ... thankfully and about time.  A few more years, and hybrids will follow the all ICEVs,, into extinction, as BEV's range match & exceeds them, at an affordable price.

 

Big Oil still controls the MSM, (obvious by the trolling here) but the wallet & competition will finally win in the end.  Five years time, and I really can't see anyone buying ICEVs in the future.

 

For those still driving, they'll be paying a premium for that dinosaur fuel, as it turns into a niche market for dinosaurs.

Hybrid will be around for quite a while as they also qualify for incentives

The Government of Thailand has instituted fiscal incentives designed to make hybrid vehicles more attainable for the general populace. Such initiatives include diminished taxation rates and subsidies aimed at encouraging a shift towards environmentally friendly automotive options. These efforts are indicative of a broader dedication to reducing the nation’s carbon emissions and fostering a market for clean transportation alternatives.

https://thethaiger.com/guides/automotive/are-hybrid-vehicles-the-smart-choice-for-thailands-future-mobility#:~:text=

5 hours ago, CANSIAM said:

I personally enjoy when an inconsiderate prick in the seat in front of you has his seat fully reclined at meal times.......

I tend to choose airlines that have fixed shell type of seats that way when the inconsiderate prick in front reclines they only reclining in their seat space

MG ZS EV refuses to start after charging, leaves me stranded  HV Battery Shut Off

https://www.team-bhp.com/news/mg-zs-ev-refuses-start-after-charging-leaves-me-stranded

What is the cause of the HV Battery Shut off problem??

https://evguarantee.net/2023/01/08/ประเด็นดัง-ปัญหารถดับ-hv-battery-shut/

Solve the HV Battery Shut Off symptom of MG electric cars after charging with DC and the car shuts down

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The primary reason hybrids sales are so significant is because they are typically the top variation of a given model.

 

If you want the leather, you have to buy the hybrid...

Not any more Toyota Yaris CROSS : 789,000 – 899,000 all 3 models are hybrid, Honda city HEV price starts from B769K

On 4/5/2024 at 4:07 PM, grs90 said:

What an epic topic!

 

I have read through nearly all the posts in this thread although still a few pages to go.  Some great information and some hilarious exchanges.   A fairly recent one though, about the availability of “Fast Charges” is reminiscent of my junior school years.  

 

“There aren’t many fast chargers”

“Yes there are”

“Oh no there aren’t”

“Look at the map - there are Loads”

“Liar, liar, pants on fire”

 

Come on gentleman, surely you are better than this?  If it was the kids having the argument you would tell them to grow up.  As an unbiased observer it seems a “fast charger” is one that uses DC other than AC to charge the vehicle.  If it is DC it is classed as a fast charger.  However, a fast charger does not necessarily mean a quick charger in terms of time taken to charge.  So you are both correct and it is just an issue over the terminology.  

 

Anyway, on on to my post.

 

 

I nearly bought a new EV but didn’t.  This is why.

 

In late 2023 I was in the market for a new car.  Budget was around 800K baht but in the end went slightly over that by buying a Toyota Yaris Cross..  Four months in I am very happy with the car.  Drives well, handles well and meets our requirements perfectly.  Also it is very economical returning an average of 24.4km per litre.  I appreciate though that this is more than a BEV costs to run.  I also have some regrets when I think about the performance difference between the car I bought and the EVs I tested.

 

I was really close to going for a BEV.  I read all the posts in this thread and on others on AN.  I also did a lot of research on other sites.  I test drove 3 BEVs and loved the experience.  Way superior to the traditional cars in terms of acceleration and also handling which, I think, was probably due to a lower centre of gravity.  Ultimately though, I decided against a pure electric model and this was due to the following main issues.

 

1.  Convenience of charging when on a longer trip.

We mainly drive locally as I think most people probably do.  It would be relatively simple to install a charger in the carport and nearly all our charging would be done at home.  So an EV would be fine for 90%+ of the time.  We do a longer (600-1000km) trip several times a year so it is not that often that we would need to charge away from home.  

 

When I thought about this, based in particular on posts from KhunLA to whom I give thanks for the information, It was clear that there were plenty of opportunities to charge up the vehicle, in a reasonable time, when on a longer journey.  So no particular “range anxiety”.  I avoid travelling at busier times as I dislike crowds roads.  Based on my observations I have never seen a queue for a charger at PTT stations where we normally stop.  So no worries about waiting to use a charger.  

 

My main issue was over the timing of when to do a longer stop to charge up the car.  On a longer trip I typically have a pee/smoke stop every hour or so and these take less than 5 minutes.  I will also typically have one approx 30 minute stop to have some food.  However, these are normally quite soon after leaving home when I stop for breakfast, or when I am nearly at my destination when I stop for lunch to avoid arriving at the hotel too early for check-in.  I didn’t want the longer stop to be done when the car wanted to eat rather than when I wanted to.  

 

Ultimately this is a convenience issue,  I could manage the charging very easily within a reasonable period of time.  I just can’t be bothered to.

 

2.  Resale value.

This is a complete unknown.  I would expect to keep any new car for 6 or 7 years and, having been scalped previously when trying to sell a car with manual transmission which hardly anyone wanted, I was somewhat worried about what a 2003 battery EV would be worth in 2009/2010.  I wasn’t worried about the car being unusable as I don’t believe the scare stories about the batteries being useless after several years.  At worse the battery may just lose a low percentage of its ability.  My main concern was over why anyone would want to buy a 2003 BEV when, I am sure, a 2009/2010 BEV will be far superior in terms of its battery capacity and charging ability.  

 

Things in the BEV market still seem to be advancing at a rapid pace so will a 2003 car be effectively obsolete in 6 or 7 years time?

 

3.  Insurance and repair costs.

Another big unknown.  At the moment this doesn’t seem to be an issue but I’m a bit concerned after reading stories about high repair costs for a BEV and the limited number of people trained and qualified to do any repairs needed.  This may, or may not, be an issue going forward.

 

I am at a stage of my life where I hate uncertainty.  I don’t have any worries about getting a Toyota insured or repaired.  I don’t want to introduce a new “worry” in to my life when there are plenty already.

 

 

So, overall, there were just enough niggling little issues preventing me buying a BEV.  It was a close call though and I am sure the next purchase will be a BEV.

 

For me, now, I want to be able to buy a BEV for around 800K.  I want to be able to do a 450 to 500 KM journey without having to charge en-route.  I want the 1000baht per night type hotels to have charging points so I can charge overnight on arrival, rather than having to eff around finding a charging location near the hotel or paying for a more expensive hotel which provides charging points as many already do.  Will these requirements be met by 2009/2010?  I think, probably, yes.

 

So, in conclusion, no EV for me this time.  But keep the thread going because next time I am sure there will be!!

It seems that most car buyers in Thailand agree with you since hybrid is the 3rd most popular choice after petrol and diesel with 122,190 hybrid's registered since January 2023 with Honda and Toyota taking the lion share of the Hybrid market

41 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

This was exactly what happened to me when I bought my Seal Performance. I had to redo the finance agreement because the price of the car dropped by 100,000thb from when I initially went to purchase it. 

28 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Now you're comparing apples & orange/car loans & mortgages.  Long approval times, and what a seller/buyer accepts, is irrelevant when time for approval, and the appraisal is done.

 

I'm not very trustworthy of used car assoc. opinions, as lets be real, does he or whoever have more ICEs in stock, or EVs.

 

They're not going to say EVs are the way to go, easy approval, unless they have a large inventory of.   Read between the lines people, and use common marketing sense.

 

That's how I got to where I am, thinking for myself, not listening to those with a vested interest.

See post from @Mr Meeseeks

When ever there is a change in value of the  vehicle on a loan application the approval process for finance has to start from the beginning with the revised value

It looks like you got lucky again and dodge a bullet not buying that MG EP/EP+ many reports in the facebook groups of losing power 

I have to say well done to BYD for providing refunds to anyone that bought a BYD from January 1st 2024 against the current pricing reductions

4 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You correct, I don't bother reading all these silly links, and go by life experiences from people I know & respect.

 

And certainly not Thaiger news-blips.  Might as well read DailyMail or National Enquirer.

 

As I stated, banks loan money at based on appraised value, not future depreciation.  My experiences anyway, and I'll stick with that knowledge, which directly conflicts with what you're implying.

And the Thaiger article was also written in BP was authored by Pinyo Tanawatcharaporn, the former president of the Association of Used Cars.

And while you are correct that banks and financial institutions based their loans on appraised value if the value drops in value during the application process they will start the application approval from the beginning against the new revised appraised value 

I have seen it happen many times during mortgage applications where if the seller accepts a reduce offer it starts a new  application approval

7 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

And you know this how ?

 

Do you really think the bank cares what you borrow money to buy might depreciate in the future, as that's pretty much a given, with the exception of Land & RE.

 

More what ifs ... any real info or personal experiences.  Not even a friend of my cousin's boss story.

 

 

Clearly  you didn't read or understand the article 

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

When chevrolet announced their 50% firesale financial institutions immediately suspended any future loans against   chevrolet vehicles maybe they were concerned about customers ending up with negative equity on the car loan

8 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I can't see EV being any more of a risk that ICEV repos, as they are basically the same price, and loans approved on same qualifying rules.

 

If anything, less risk, as cheaper to operate, so buyer has more liquid baht to pay the bank note.  More silliness from the anti folks.  Another what if scenario, along with the ol' doom & gloom sells.   Getting old & unoriginal.  Don't have anything else, at least more interesting  

 

Thaiger, noted for the excellent spot on blips.

 

I like the last sentence, as might be able to pick up a 2nd, on the cheap, from bank.

ICE repos  financial institutions are willing to provide loans, EV repos financial institutions are unwilling to provide loans on used models

you go to your bank ask for a loan for a used ev  for  x amount and advise the bank at the same  that the value of the EV may drop by up to B250,000 in the next 4 weeks  because the manufacturer as reduce the price on new models  to generate new sales Bank will tell you come back 4 weeks later when the price has dropped

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

All valid points, but with a million EV cars on the road, some EV buyers are probably also being lured away from the showrooms and into the second hand EV market. 

This is something we haven't seen in Thailand yet, but if and when the BYD fabric start pumping out 150,000 units, we might get a thriving second hand market around 2025/26 and that could put a damper on new EV sales.

 

"There are now over a million electric cars on our roads.....

 

Electric vehicle market faces risk from non-performing loans

“The association expects to see EV seizures increase in the second half of this year.”

Pinyo further explained that if these seized EVs were to be sold in the second-hand car market, it’s unlikely that financial institutions would provide loan schemes for potential buyers of used EVs. The lack of confidence in granting loans in the second-hand EV market stems from the market’s expected small size and the continued fluctuation in new EV prices, making it difficult for banks to calculate the value of used EVs, said Pinyo.

https://thethaiger.com/news/business/electric-vehicle-market-faces-risk-from-non-performing-loans

I am not sure I would call it a thriving second hand market as these finance institutions will sell for whatever they can get and then go after the original buyer for the outstanding balance

39 minutes ago, giddyup said:

To think I paid around 120,000 baht for my first 42" plasma TV, and had to buy a digital tuner separately.

Was that a Panasonic Professional Display model starting with TH

 Panasonic Professional went through a period of asking their engineers to design monitors without cost restraints placed on them 

all models were designed without a built in tuner

early models around 2000 started at approx £6,000 for 42" models

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I've always bought the base models, and the screens have always been perfect.

Perfect in your eyes could be horrible to some one else eyes

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think PHEV helps to give those that think Thailand is not ready for EV's, the confidence to think about full EV later.  Some drivers can operate in EV mode almost all the time.

 

 

You can thank electric aircon compressors for that

 

 

A weird approach, but it does lend itself to HEV mode or full BEV mode by simply replacing the ICE generator with a battery.  Insanity if you ask me, but to be expected from a company who S & P rate their credit as "Junk".

You have overlooked the Price of PHEV in Thailand

PHEV is never going to be a huge seller in Thailand it is a niche product which is expensive,

cheapest PHEV at the moment is Haval H6 and MG at B1.4 million

Cheapest HEV price starts around B789K 

Petrol PHEV total  registrations for 2023 11,495

Diesel PHEV total  registrations for 2023 208

HEV total registrations for 2023 85,022

5 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I don't think people make a choice to choose HEV, the model they like just happens to be HEV or it's the top model in the range that they would buy anyway.

 

I think PHEV is sometimes a choice.  Often it's not a choice and some people who buy PHEV never plug them in, what I find interesting is customer behaviour.  When Mercedes opened a new dealership in Chiang Rai, I went to the opening and the CEO of MB Thailand was there and we talked about this, he was disappointed that most MB PHEV buyers don't plug them in and he was pleased that I ran mine in EV mode as often as possible.

 

 

Yes and you have the option to drive a decent distance in EV mode.

 

 

I like the KISS methodology (Keep It Simple, Stupid).

PHEV is never going to be a huge seller in Thailand it is a niche product which is expensive,

cheapest PHEV at the moment is Haval H6 and MG at B1.4 million

And GWM are not happy selling at that price they want to put the price back to B1.7M

Depending on how often and how far you drive on electric mode, you may not save much fuel or emissions compared to a regular hybrid. PHEVs also have heavier batteries that add weight and reduce cargo space. The main drawback is twice the powertrains - twice the costs, complexity & confusion

If climate change is the main reason for BEV then a halfway house is HEV which reduces  emissions

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think HEV figures are largely irrelevant but I do think PHEV is relevant.

At the moment HEV  is  the 3rd most popular fuel choice after petrol and diesel

It will be interesting to see if BEV overtakes HEV to be come the 3rd most most popular fuel choice after petrol and diesel

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

That's the spreadsheet I was using.  I just downloaded it again at 9:45am/today/5Apr and still get 5,001.  See the cells I have Excel totalling up which represent above mentioned RY categories.

 

For RY1 figures are 4,722

For RY3 figures are 21

For RY6 figures are 247

For RY9 figures are 1

For RY10 figures are 13

Total 5,004

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

They probably didn't include it because it was qualified by "but pretty damned good".

 

Ford recognises the threat posed by Chinese EV's, whether they can compete remains to be seen, and IMHO they can only compete if the gov't starts some protectionist policies.

 

I like that I can buy what I want here.

Some people would call it out as selected cherry picking or Spin

Remember

Alastair Campbell had Iraq dossier changed to fit US claims

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jan/10/alastair-campbell-iraq-dossier-inquiry

13 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You have a new lease on life, based on your new EV market share metrics.

I have made a little chart, just for you. It was a close call in February and starting May the first ray of summer sun ☀️ might start to shine.

 

It would be useful to include HEV figures in your chart

2024 registrations figures to the end of March are

Total BEV 22,332
Total HEV 38,100

33 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Your Ford article is wrong.

 

Mar 28 2024

Ford’s CEO Jim Farley called the Seagull “pretty damn good,” as he warned rivals. Farley said at the Wolfe Research Conference last month that if automakers fail to keep up with the Chinese, like BYD, “20% to 30% of your revenue is at risk.” In response, Ford is shifting from larger to smaller, more affordable EVs.

https://electrek.co/2024/03/28/byd-evs-enter-knockout-round-new-tech-launching/?fbclid=IwAR1_zbTBl60xSTRWz4i6XaTpsvQPHd-Tvdy6Qk3D-nEIFwoLT3PIzKORPAk_aem_AZotUpvMFEHhkEkcBuWbqMFVBI1zq1ltOQx1KORodh3-VEaBDXAlrWtSBxo2xmaKHs4

 

I added the bold emphasis.

Ford CEO stated 

Chinese auto giant BYD 's Seagull small electric vehicle, he said, has about $9,000 in material costs, and it will probably cost the company another $2,000 to meet crash test standards, for a total cost of around $11,000. It has a range of about 150 miles in cold weather, “not a fantastic vehicle, but pretty damn good.”

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2024/02/15/ford-ceo-says-company-will-rethink-where-it-builds-vehicles-after-last-years-autoworkers-strike/72612953007/

It seems selective quoting I wondered why they didn't include "not a fantastic vehicle"  in their quoted article

16 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

I'm in the looking stage of a new 75 inch and Panasonic android/google standing out for me 25-35k half the price on my 6 year old 65 inch LG that's developing turning on and off +wifi issues 🤔

I think you need to post your current LG model number there are many different types of TV and if you go by screen size alone you may end up with a new TV that has a worse picture quality than your 6 year old current model

5 hours ago, Pib said:

By using the DLT stats I can get the 5001 EV registered for March 2024 to match the autolifethailand article by adding the RY1 ,RY3, RY6, RY9, and RY10 categories.  Definition of the categories below.   

 

And before someone says the RY9 business category must have many vehicles, well, no it don't as there was only a total of 10 ICEV/EV in this category for March with 1 of the 10 registrations being an EV registration.....that 1 was an Aion model.

 

 And yea, I don't think the journalist is identifying all the various RY categories being counted and the categories being counted has probably expanded over the last year as more EV manufacturers and models come to the Thai market. 

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation

DLT updated their website late yesterday with a new spreadsheet named Fuel_NewCar_Mar67

using the RY1 ,RY3, RY6, RY9, and RY10 categories. the total number of BEV registered in March was 5,004

DLT also make corrections to Fuel_NewCar_2023 where autolifethailand showed 76,314 BEV

and using the RY1 ,RY3, RY6, RY9, and RY10 categories. DLT is showing an extra 39 BEV vehicles 

2023 shows little interest in PHEV 

Diesel PHEV 208 registered in 2023

Petrol PHEV 11,495 registered in 2023

HEV are the 3rd most popular fuel choice after petrol and diesel with 84,229 registrations in 2023

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I have requested 12 month price protection on my MG Cyberster from MG HQ in Thailand, or I will cancel my order.  It has gone up to HQ from the local dealer for consideration and I wouldn't be surprised if it has gone all the way to MG China.  In today's cut-throat market, I wouldn't buy another car without price protection unless it is one already heavily discounted.

 

I agree it is unheard of in the Auto industry, but it is common practice in the IT industry.  IBM used to try and stuff me full of kit at their year end and it always came with price protection.

 

 

What is important is the ratio of new EV's to new ICE.  I didn't consider a slump in the entire auto industry.  If the ratio starts to decrease over 3 months consecutively, then I will indeed concede EV's have a problem.

 

 

That plug is Level 2 normal AC Charging in Thailand (220v/380v).

Good Luck with trying to get a price reduction protection I am aware of some auto manufacturer offering a price increase protection but never price reduction protection

Personally I think the EV industry needs to look at other solutions to generate sales such as buying up insurance companies and offering 3-4 year insurance or buying up banks and offering 0% interest over 

60 or 72 months Currently some brands if they offer  0% interest rate its normally for a max term of 48 months

When Chevrolet offered 50% discount as part of their exit strategy they weren't concerned about their  existing Thai customer based loyalty or about the reduction in values of their customers  vehicles in Thailand

I am sure at the moment finance and banks are ultra cautious about finance on EV's

They take a very negative attitude against lending against a product that might be B250,000 less next month as the customer could end up with negative equity on the finance agreement

And of course  price reduction protection can work against customers

Would you have sold your daughter MG EP+ if the buyer insisted on a price reduction protection clause in the event that MG reduce the price of the MG EP+, I suspect you would have told the buyer to take an hike