Any bets that when Pfizer is fully FDA approved, that the company will STILL be immune from prosecution? I'm thinking yes, and wondering why.

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

He may or may not have had it. 

 

But, he [BritManToo] has stated as fact that he had Covid-19 and used the lack of severity of symptoms to justify an opinion that Covid-19 is not serious and that a vaccine is unnecessary.

 

 

 

Actually, millions of covid survivors have proven that. It's in the stats.

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/kids-sick-covid-are-filling-children-s-hospitals-areas-seeing-n1276238

 

Kids sick with Covid are filling up children's hospitals in areas seeing spikes

“Absolutely household infections are the beginning of this pandemic, that is a major driving force in the spread of infections. We see it often within households, parents to children,” a pediatrician said.

"Our children's hospitals are busy, predominantly because of the winter viruses that have come back with a vengeance," he said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/viruses-are-landing-kids-icu-summer-it-s-not-all-n1274355

2 hours ago, cdemundo said:

"Funny that a higher percentage of PhD recipients do not want the "vaccine". From WebMD assuming that's an "accepted" site:"

 

OK, my explanation was bad. 

The above quote (from another poster) was referring to a WebMD article that was discussing a FB survey.

I pointed out that the source of the WebMD article was a FB survey in order to discredit it.

 

So for once we agree on something, nobody trusts FB as a source.

 

 

Carnegie Mellon University and University of Pittsburgh did the actual study, so whatever that's worth. The study has been reported by many 'accepted' news sources, also FWIW.

If true, it just shows the distrust (knowledge) of the educated and their peers. 

Now I'm agog.

5 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Which was the point of this exchange as the poster I was replying to had been all agog over the survey he found that had been done on FB, which he had not been aware of.

 

You ought to know what is being discussed before jumping into something you don't understand.

I was not agog.

3 hours ago, DBath said:

You may be right and I certainly hope you're wrong. The funny thing is, nobody can tell me what are the odds, I mean what is the percent chance I will get covid if I'm super careful - which I am and I will continue to be. Does that make me inconsiderate of others, not in my opinion.

 

What irks me - and steels my resolve - is when people try to imply I'm not an intelligent person, because I'm "not willing to follow the science" - I say <deleted> the science, but I don't say that without taking all the proper precautions and weighing the risks. And if not taking some half-proven inoculation is not part of my plan, then I don't know what you want me to say.

 

Can you tell I'm fed up with people telling me what I should and shouldn't do with regard to getting 'the jab'? 

I think you're smart. The science keeps changing every day. Pfizer initially reported at 95% efficacy, now down to 42% with the Delta (still COVID-19) variant. I've read the FDA would not have approved any vaccine under 50%.

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

You don't really know that you don't have Covid-19 unless you're testing yourself every day. Yes, many cases are asymptomatic and of course all cases start that way. Your mitigation measures sound very good but especially with Delta, they aren't nearly 100 percent effective.

Everything you said here applies to a vaccinated person as well.

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

I think even if they stop the lockdown whos going to risk going out to crowded malls or travel.  

 

Risk getting sick and know there's not even a hospital bed if you need one.

 

I'd like to get in my SUV and travel to Hua Hin.  Stay at the Marriott or Hilton

  Stay to myself, walk on the beach, read a book on the beachfront balcony.

 

Wife put the Kebash on that idea.

 

For many people with families, you have to think of everyones safety, especially the young children.

 

 

I would have no problem returning to 2019 old normal. Young children are more susceptible to flu than covid.; .03 to .02. CDC, look it up.

Either way, I have no elders, other than myself, or children to worry about.

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

As has repeatedly been pointed out to you, even when there is a breakthrough case, it tends to be milder and of shorter duration so that means less transmission of the virus. And what don't you understand about the fact that over 99% of covid-19 deaths in hospitals are of the unvaccinated?

 

As for their being 'issues with the vaccines down the road', to quote a fella named Jesus Christ "Sufficient unto the day are the troubles thereof." I got facts, you got hypotheticals.

Hypotheticals only because the numbers keep changing. Right now, sufficient unto the day, they're 58% and 25%. You can't even answer that question?

What I have been unable to find, is a study of reinfection for natural immunity from infection vs initial or reinfection of vaccinated (not having been previously naturally infected).

There's a study out there from Kentucky, that tries to present itself as this, but it is not. It is reinfected naturally no vaccine vs reinfected post natural infection+vaccine. 2.34 times less likely to reinfect or something.

I know they're saying the vaccine helps prevent reinfection of the naturally infected, I don't dispute that. But that's not what I'm looking for.

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Not really, even if unvaccinated people and breakthrough cases transmitted equal amounts of various, you're disregarding the fact that it's less likely for a vaccinated person to be infected in the first place. And when vaccinated people are infected their symptoms tend to be milder and not last as long. So less virus produced.

Sure. What is it now, 42% efficacy for Pfizer and 75% for moderna? Meaning 25 to 58% of vaccinated people could be variant factories.

Do you feel safe knowing 58% of your vaccinated friends could give you covid? At what percentage do the vaxers stop demanding everyone join their club? What if it's 98% breakthrough possible, would you still demand injections for all? Why?

Isn't the truth that, if there ARE issues with the vaccines down the road, you want everyone to be in the same boat as you?

6 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

Wow.

I've been waiting.

You finally said something that was true.

"Which anyone would interpret to say neither vaccinated nor unvaccinated are the actual CAUSE of the variants"

 

The cause of the variants is the phenomenon of errors in replication.

Now that we're seeing so many breakthrough cases, this makes those prior fear mongering headlines, "unvaccinated are variant factories", and "unvaccinated people are fueling coronavirus variants", equally true of those breakthrough cases. But they won't say that now, will they.

20 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

"Lots of facts there. No evidence. What does that even mean? It means they're not 100% sure, or they would state "vaccines do not cause variants". And they would state how they know."

 

You mean like this? 

 

3) https://www.healthline.com/health-news/no-vaccines-do-not-cause-new-sars-cov-2-variants

No, COVID-19 Vaccines Do Not Cause New Coronavirus Variants

Ok, one scientists says they do and one scientists states they don't. But he also stated “Mutations and variants occur randomly and independently of vaccination or any other selection process. In fact, they may precede selection by years or millennia,”

Which anyone would interpret to say neither vaccinated nor unvaccinated are the actual CAUSE of the variants. So all of the claims of unvaccinated causing the variants is also bogus. If you're infected, either way, you could be the creation host of the variant.

oh, sorry, I forgot this is the thread I bowed out of.

Lots of facts there. No evidence. What does that even mean? It means they're not 100% sure, or they would state "vaccines do not cause variants". And they would state how they know.

Scientists for decades have been unable to produce a successful vaccine against any coronavirus, and now we're supposed to believe they have. Ok. Maybe they can, they just haven't because the yearly flu vaccine, which I've NEVER had, is a lucrative business for their employers/funders.

Prior to 2020 90% of posts were Trump and Brexit, now 90% are covid and I'm getting ready to bug out too.

Anyone upgrade their Aerox forks? ????

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So the survey was online.

 

It is not unreasonable to, given the political charged nature of the vaccine issue, to expect ‘motivated individuals’ make returns supporting their political position and adding a few imagined credentials to bolster their position,

 

 

If that's true, that the data source of that link was from an online survey, I agree. Funny that WebMD would publish it.

6 hours ago, cmarshall said:

Here's an opinion from that well-known Communist source, Forbes Magazine, written by former Harvard Medical School professor, William Haseltine, PhD, about the success of China's anti-Covid policies.  The article dates from January, 2021 when the Covid death toll in America was only 400,000.

 

I decry the stubborn resistance of most governments and people to acknowledge and to learn from China’s success. For most, their resistance is led by ignorance. China’s successes are not widely known and rarely covered by the US and international media. For others who are more well informed, it is willful disregard of an important public health achievement that we should all be learning from. When this negligence comes from our government representatives, it borders on dereliction of their public health duty. 

 

Yes, I do believe China's numbers, in part because of personal experience and the stories from my colleagues in China who describe their Covid-free daily lives. 

 

And no, China’s success in containing Covid-19 is not the consequence of totalitarianism. It is the consequence of a government that has learned to protect its people from pandemic tragedies. China is following a rulebook they first learned in large part at the Harvard School of Public Health following SARS. That China applied these lessons while we did not is a lasting embarrassment and tragedy for the nearly 400,000 lives lost, the one million-plus of our citizens who are scarred for life from their encounter with Covid-19, and for so many of us who have mourned the loss of family members and friends.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/01/14/why-america-should-look-to-china-to-contain-covid-19/

Forbes, a business rag.  Spewing love for the CCP as their readership businesses all are in need of the mighty Yuan.

Yeah, welding granny's doors shut was learned at Harvard. /s

Although I defended the Chinese in my prior post, I do not believe the Chinese numbers. I believe the virus escaped from their lab. I believe US money was used to support the research. I believe we shouldn't be making viruses capable of human infection for viruses that may never migrate to humans. I believe cmarshall stands for China Marshall.

17 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

 

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.20.21260795v1.full-text

the original study is here.

"The association between hesitancy and education level followed a U-shaped curve with the lowest hesitancy among those with a master’s degree (RR=0.75 [95% CI 0.72-0.78] and the highest hesitancy among those with a PhD (RR=2.16 [95%CI 2.05-2.28]) or ≤high school education(RR=1.88 [95%CI 1.83-1.93]) versus a bachelor’s degree."

 

So this survey found  high school education or less and PhD to be most hesitant.

So that is interesting.

This study is self-congratulatory about having a higher granularity of educational levels than most surveys which simply report "College Degree or higher". That is (could be) a good point and many surveys which use "health care workers" as a category place all health care workers in the same category whether CNAs, dental hygienists or MDs.

 

A couple of problems with this study, in spite of the sophisticated statistical data analysis:

Participation was self-selected, "on line survey" is all it says, but study was sponsored by Zuckerberg's foundation so I am guessing (since the study doesn't state) that this was done on Facebook.

Self-selection is of course a possible source of bias.

 

The second problem: "Additionally, we assume the survey was completed in good faith." in a controversial study such as this the assumption is questionable. 

No one knows better than you the lack of good faith in the vaccine debate.

Additionally, even assuming good faith report of PhD level of education: PhDs are granted in French Literature, Art History, Linguistics etc.; so not all PhDs indicate a higher level of knowledge about viruses and vaccines.

 

Other studies have found conflicting results.

So for example a study on the same server, "Predictors of COVID-19 vaccination uptake", states:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261261v1.full.pdf

 

"Higher education level (Schrading et al., 2021), higher income (McCabe et al., 2021), and higher rank occupation (Malesza & Bozym, 2021) were related with higher levels of COVID-19 vaccination uptake."

 

"COVID-19 vaccination uptake was more likely in physicians (Schrading et al., 2021), in allied health professionals and administrative/executive staff (Martin et al., 2021), and in healthcare workers in university hospitals and intensive care units (Barry et al., 2021)."

 

"As we found in our review, limited knowledge about the vaccines decreases the probability to take a COVID-19 vaccine (L. Nguyen et al., 2021)."

 

So the finding about PhDs in the Facebook survey you quoted must be taken with a grain of salt.

Even still, it is an interesting finding, but it certainly needs to be clarified.

As some discussed after my post, we don't conclude that having a PhD necessarily means you're smart. I've known a few, professional students, as they're called, that upon receiving their PhD, couldn't make a wise decision if their life depended on it. One became a house husband.

I just found it interesting.

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

When it comes to private health concerns you have a right to be as weird as you like. When it comes to public health concerns, not so much. Or do you think that smokers have the right to treat others to the second hand smoke experience?

As a mildly obese smoker, which you've probably already ascertained by now because of my non fear of covid, I DO believe others should get reprieve from my 2nd hand smoke. But I think there are limits. Like when a smoking area is 30 feet away and a non smoker whines about catching a wiff. One wiff is not going to give you lung cancer; it's a cumulative thing. Or when a bar has ashtrays out and you are there first and a non smoker sits down and complains. Charcoal grills on a deck. I think it smells heavenly, but not the neighbor above. Can't they both come to an agreement?

I have non smoking friends. And even though they say they don't mind, I usually walk away when I light up. Other smoking friends light up and don't give a toot. I admire their tenacity.

There are many non smoking venues; use them or if not, open one. They're not all one person's toys to have as he needs when he needs.

But I'm off topic now, so back to covid, public health. I think LIVING is fraught with unhealthy, dangerous, avoidable activities, and unavoidable problems. We either learn to accept our humanity and treat all healthcare equally, or we open a Pandora's box of haves and have nots.

The last thing I want in this world is for everyone to be the same.

Just now, cdemundo said:

Link please. Since you have a history of promoting falsehoods.

 

Posted above, read the thread.

1 minute ago, MrJ2U said:

Blah, blah, 

Your such a weirdo.

 

 

Selfish weirdo to you, thank you.

Just now, MrJ2U said:

Unless its COVID-19.

 

I know you're an vaxer Qanon guy.

 

Its like talking in circles to a follower of a cult.

 

Story of a QAnon freak below:

 

"Man says he killed his kids over QAnon conspiracy theories and "serpent DNA," fearing they'd become "monsters"" 

 

 

Actually the cultists are the ones trying to tell everyone else what to do. I only post my reasonings for my choice to not vaccinate at this time.

Just now, MrJ2U said:

Or die.

Everybody dies, you never know how or when.