frantick

10 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I actually agree with you about Australia and New Zealand. But the person I was replying to cited them in support of his argument. So I let it ride.

???? <-That's a thumbs up BTW. Maybe doesn't show up on non Android.

8 hours ago, Skallywag said:

Herd immunity likely will not happen.

Simple solution for most is to get vaccinated. The vaccines were designed to prevent severe illness, not infection.

 

Unvaccinated and you are playing Russian roulette every time you go out for the rest of your life.

 

Until you're infected, and then there's a 99+% chance you'll recover without any problems and MAY have better protection from future infections than those vaccinated.

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Unfortunately, the weakness of democracy is that a country can be inflicted with terrible leadership. Australia and New Zealand both have managed to subdue Covid without adopting the Orwellian measures that characterize the Chinese system of govt. 

Yeah, 2 countries of 45m people on a few islands vs 1.3bn on a large continent surrounded by other countries. I hate to stick up for "Chyna", but I must.

Aus and NZ closed their islands basically. Not so easy for the rest of the world. But, it's not over yet. I think worse is coming for those 2 unfortunately.

9 hours ago, Denim said:

Some of our strange American cousins not only don't want to wear a mask they are hassling those that do ?  Wonder if these people are also daft enough to have an issue with vaccines.

 

 

Not sticking up for those tennesseans, but the video lacks context. We have no idea what was said to them earlier by the man driving away, unmasked by the way, in his car. Probably telling the crowd he was enforcing masks for children regardless of what the community wants for their own children. 

Most antimaskers I know are all for individual choice, and give 2cents what you do with your life.

44 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

Throughout my life, I have noted that common sense is inversely proportionate to intelligence.

I agree. Thus I'm in the wait and see category. Keeping my eyes on Iceland and Israel since their populations have a high vaccination percentage.

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think most medical doctors do not have PhDs. They have MDs. I would agree that PhDs can usually be assumed to have high intelligence but I'm sure that stat would be very different if it was specially about medical doctors. 

I don't know. Lot of talk elitists with PhDs want to be called doctor. ????

(Note, I did not say MEDICAL doctor in my original post)

5 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

I've looked at WebMD and can't find the study you are relating.

Could you provide a link to the page please?

Sure.

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210810/covid-vaccine-hesitancy-90-million

12 hours ago, cdemundo said:

Ridiculous.

I know it's unlikely on this website, but are you 12 years old?

You are constantly spewing the lamest of the lame lies and untruths.

 

Here are 4 detailed refutations of this ridiculous claim.

Number 4 does not require any understanding of science other than to note that a cause has to come before an effect in time.

You will note that this articles do not just make statements but back them up with evidence.

 

Again, I am posting these for those that have real concerns that the above claim might be true.

 

1) https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-did-covid-vaccines-cause-the-delta-variant/a-58242263

 

"Have vaccines caused the delta variant?

It is impossible for the delta variant to have been caused by vaccines.

This virus mutation was detected for the first time in October 2020 in the Indian state of Maharashtra. The first person in India to be vaccinated, however, did not receive that vaccination until January 2021, around three months after the delta variant developed. This refutes the claims mentioned at the beginning.

This fact check explains how mutations come about and why vaccines cannot be held responsible for them."

 

 

2) https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-variants/fact-check-no-evidence-vaccination-efforts-are-causing-new-covid-19-variants-idUSL2N2NL1M2

Fact Check-No evidence vaccination efforts are causing new COVID-19 variants (7 MIN READ)

 

3) https://www.healthline.com/health-news/no-vaccines-do-not-cause-new-sars-cov-2-variants

No, COVID-19 Vaccines Do Not Cause New Coronavirus Variants

 

4) https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/08/07/did-covid-19-vaccines-cause-coronavirus-delta-variants-no-evidence-behind-such-claims/?sh=3c25b174281d

Did Covid-19 Vaccines Cause Coronavirus Delta Variants? Here’s What The Timing Says

 

Ok, what I meant to say was, virus variants can occur anywhere the virus is active/replicating. So, since vaccinated people can contract covid, variants can occur in vaccinated people. Better?

9 hours ago, Victornoir said:

Smart people trusts science to provide solutions.

Of course, you are free to make your own choices for yourself, but you are not free to ruin the collective effort by pure obscurantism.

Funny that a higher percentage of PhD recipients do not want the "vaccine". From WebMD assuming that's an "accepted" site: "The eye-opener: By May, the group with PhDs were more hesitant than those with lower educational levels."

Aren't all those scientists and doctors being praised PhDs?

(Here's where you comment about all the stupid PhD recipients you know)

Touche`

Why do you post this nonsense? Go to Facebook and search "francis gonclaves". Obviously a promotional account set up to further the anti-freedom movement.

6 minutes ago, smylee52 said:

What worries me is the anti vaxers stretching out this pandemic longer than necessary . How about we institute vaccine passports you need to show for entry into an ICU if you have Covid . By the end of 2021 I expect everyone wanting to get a vaccine will get it . For those that refuse i respect your right to be an  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ so let's let natural  selection solve the dilemna .  Let's not waste time , money and resources on anti vaxers and allow them to follow their conscience . 

 

 

And what's your vice? Liquor? Food? Smoke? Women?

If so will need a passport for those too. Wouldn't want any of those diseases taking up valuable healthcare resources. 

Oh, sorry, I forgot you're young paleo, intermittent fasting, gym crushing, monk man.

As it's not the gun that kills you, but the man holding the gun, so it is not the unvaccinated man that kills you, but the virus. Learn to target your enemy.

2 hours ago, partington said:

 

There is no unwillingness to report these numbers, and it is simple common sense that when a vaccine is reported in the press to have efficacies of say, 85%, 70%, or 95% , it means that this is the percentage of people who are prevented from getting Covid after vaccination, compared to those who are unvaccinated.

 

Clearly this also directly informs you that 15%, 30% or 5% of people who are vaccinated will get Covid despite their vaccination status. There is nothing hidden or obscure about these statements!

 

Contrary to your implication that this is somehow hidden or deliberately obscured information, the mainstream UK newspaper The Guardian published a helpful article detailing exactly this only a month or so ago:

https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/commentisfree/2021/jun/27/why-most-people-who-now-die-with-covid-have-been-vaccinated

"Why most people who now die with Covid in England have had a vaccination

David Spiegelhalter and Anthony Masters

It could sound worrying that the majority of people dying in England with the now-dominant Delta (B.1.617.2) variant have been vaccinated. Does this mean the vaccines are ineffective? Far from it, it’s what we would expect from an effective but imperfect vaccine, a risk profile that varies hugely by age and the way the vaccines have been rolled out.

 

Consider the hypothetical world where absolutely everyone had received a less than perfect vaccine. Although the death rate would be low, everyone who died would have been fully vaccinated.

 

The vaccines are not perfect. PHE estimates two-dose effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta infections at around 94%. We can perhaps assume there is at least 95% protection against Covid-19 death, which means the lethal risk is reduced to less than a twentieth of its usual value."

I understand the numbers and the reasoning. Just don't find them easily, if at all, other than these onesy-twosy press articles. Kudos to the UK for printing this one.

I'm not a conspiracy guy, just wish these numbers, for example the US, were available in some type of database so we could run them ourselves to get the whole picture.

1 minute ago, MrJ2U said:

Why don't you just look at the news.

 

Your so odd.

vaccinated-hospital vs unvaccinated-hospital numbers

Show me where you find those numbers and I'll buy you a beer.

3 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

 "It's almost impossible to find those vaccinated-hospital vs unvaccinated-hospital numbers, why is that?"

 

Conspiracy theories really bore me.

 

Why don't you ask one of your Qanon friends?

Just want numbers, you know, science. Oh, I forgot, math is racist now.

2 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

 

I don't think you and the tin foil hat guys will ever understand science.

Laughable.

Happy to make you chuckle, we're here to entertain. 

I'm sure it's good for you to laugh to keep you from crying and cowering, masked up in the corner, over the coming doomsday virus variant and us (we?) superspreaders.

14 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

You wouldn't understand.

You won't until your in a hospital with COVID-19 like so many other anti vaxers.

99% worldwide unvaccinated maybe, but only because there wasn't much vaccination going on.

Check out countries with large percentages of vaccinated; Iceland, Israel. Their hospitalizations are now starting to become primarily the vaccinated which is logical because nearly everyone is vaccinated. Granted, the vaccines reduce those numbers, I've never denied, but the media doesn't like to report the fact that there will continue to be hospitalizations and death even if everyone gets vaccinated. It's almost impossible to find those vaccinated-hospital vs unvaccinated-hospital numbers, why is that?

11 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The unvaccinated will allow variants to keep cropping up. 

 

You remember all the battles to get helmet laws enacted?  Seat belt laws?  Drunk driving laws?

 

Seems anti vaxxers fall into these groups. If you don't want to get vaccinated, fine. Just pay your own medical bills. LOL

Vaccinations can cause variants also. Stop spreading fake news.

Not antivax, just anti this vax until it's proven over time. 

I DO pay my own medical bills, I'm from the U.S.

10 hours ago, cdemundo said:

But in any event you were lying when you said the efficacy of the new vaccines is not comparable to the vaccines of the past.

Those percentages in that article were from 8 months ago. A lot has changed. We'll see.

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

AstraZeneca 70%

Chickenpox 92%

Moderna 94.1%

Pfizer 95%

Measles 97%

Polio 99%

"3 coronavirus vaccines so far seem to prevent COVID-19. Here's how their efficacy compares to vaccines for flu, measles, and more."

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-compares-other-vaccines-2020-11

 

Not for frantick who obviously doesn't' care about the truth or he would have found this info himself, but for others who might be wondering what the truth is.

Interesting to note that 70% efficacy means that you chance of contracting symptomatic disease is 70% less than if unvaccinated.

And a fine example link; "Business Insider". Kind of telling isn't it?

Did you read the title of the article?:

3 coronavirus vaccines so far SEEM to prevent COVID-19.

3 hours ago, cdemundo said:

AstraZeneca 70%

Chickenpox 92%

Moderna 94.1%

Pfizer 95%

Measles 97%

Polio 99%

"3 coronavirus vaccines so far seem to prevent COVID-19. Here's how their efficacy compares to vaccines for flu, measles, and more."

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-compares-other-vaccines-2020-11

 

Not for frantick who obviously doesn't' care about the truth or he would have found this info himself, but for others who might be wondering what the truth is.

Interesting to note that 70% efficacy means that you chance of contracting symptomatic disease is 70% less than if unvaccinated.

Funny, never heard of thousands of breakthrough cases of polio, measles, or smallpox; other than the vaccine-induced breakout of polio. Yet here we are with thousands of COVID-19 vaccinated patients contracting the disease in Iceland, Israel, USA, UK, etc., etc. But you didn't provide that stat, did you?

But you stick with your stats. We'll compare them and talk again in another year and see where we are then. Who knows, I may have changed my mind and gotten vaccinated by then. But at this point, I'll stick with my 98% chances and await more data.