mikebike

Friends I know work 6 months on 6 months off, under enforcement of the rules these people can no longer enjoy there time off work in Thailand even though they have condo's or rented houses. What are their options ?

Why can they no longer enjoy Thailand? 6on/6off is ideal for double entry visa. Or did you mean they can no longer enjoy Thailand by exploiting the border-run loop-hole?

Not 'entirely' true.

I've been a frequent flyer since 98', and in all that time, I've been asked for a forwarding ticket, maybe six times only.

While the antidotal stories are nice, it remains true that MOST countries have very similar requirements/laws. The fact that they enforce these requirements/laws at their own discretion does not invalidate the requirements/laws.

She did a Homer Simpson with that bit of not thinking.

image.jpg

When I'm doing something illegal, must remember not to advertise it for the world to see

I feel that many farang here assume because they have been exploiting loop-holes so cleverly that Thai officials have no idea what is going on. It is the complete opposite. They know exactly what going on, its just they have, previously, chosen to do nothing about it. It reminds me of the police in our village. They appear to be doing very little and let 99% of things slide... but when you speak with them and press them about the village goings-on they know way more than the gossipy auntie down the road and are totally aware of all the nefarious activities in the village - they just choose a laissez-faire attitude until they have to do something!

Not derailing.

She was refused entry because they suspected she was working illegally, which it appears, she was.

Thousands of Burmese, everyday, are working in occupations reserved for Thai's only, yet, it is allowed, on a big scale. They are working illegally.

This girl was working in the dive industry and has been deported.

Just comparing the two case when it comes to enforcement.

You are confusing the employment laws for westerners vs, Burmese. The labour/employment laws which apply to Burmese are covered by Thai Migrant Worker Policy. See a primer here: http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/Burmese-Migrants-in-Thailand-4.html

It states, in part:

With growing demands by employers to allow employment of foreign workers, the Thai government developed a registration program through Cabinet Decisions to monitor and permit migrant employment. Prior to 2001, the Thai government cautiously experimented with registration programs to regularize and control migration into Thailand from Myanmar. Initially, the cabinet decisions to regularize migration were limited to certain geographical locations and made applicable to only a few occupational sectors. For example, in 1992, employers in only ten provinces near the Myanmar border were allowed to legally hire and register migrants with the Thai government. The registration program for migrant workers has expanded consistently throughout the years. Cabinet Decisions in 2002 and 2003 permitted migrant to work in all sectors and provinces. In 2004, over 1,280,000 migrants registered with the Ministry of Interior and 814,000 of those registrants applied for work permits with the Ministry of Labour.

My wife just got her IR-1 visa to america and she will be granted her Green Card upon arrival. going through the paperwork was somewhat of a hassle but it was a relatively easy process. I much rather deal with the american immigration restriction than Thailand's immigration. This latest crackdown is a prime reason why

Adding that the process your wife went through is a one-time deal which "sorts" her for life, without ANY additional processes EVER.

Conversely a mate of mine has been trying to get his Thai wife a simple visa for the USA for years ands has been repeatedly denied. They live and work out of KL, she has her own money and he earns big in the oil biz. Both have higher education, no criminal records, they provide evidence of return flights... His family is in NC and mom and dad are a doctor and lawyer - the country-club set... Why? Discretion of the Immigration Office is all the response they get.

It's interesting to see that they're already deporting people arriving by air in Phuket.

This situation is going to get ugly fast.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/725414-russian-denied-entry-at-phuket-international-airport-over-visa-crackdown/?p=7808831

Firstly the lady was not deported,she was refused entry. And as mentioned (and linked to) in the same thread there is ample evidence that this young lady was working illegally in Phuket. She had the misfortune of providing her employment details on her LinkedIn page...So this, contrary to your intent, actually supports this threads topic - that Thai Immigration is trying to do something about foreigners working illegally and that they are well aware of foreigner's petty deceptions aimed at keeping themselves here and working. I believe there will be few issues for those here who respect the limitations of being a guest in Thailand, but for those in the grey area, hiding in the cracks may well have become much more difficult.

I am sure Impulse posted those images, for awareness... rather than try to take this off topic.... (?)

The thing is, positive news and images promote awareness as well as negative, without having the doom-and-gloom, news at six feeling. Controversial and/or shocking images do little to sway those who don't care anyway, but do to tend to reinforce the abhorrence felt by those posting them...

You are incorrect. Teachers at Bangkok University in recent times, have been required to make 15/30 land crossings, despite legitimate employment at established universities.

Why would they have to do 15/30s if they have a work permit and visa? If 'established universities' cannot provide legitimate work permits/visas annually to legitimate professors then the fault lies with the uni's system/administration. Teachers being exploited again. Its sad that there is so little respect for such an important profession.

Technically,there is a separate Visa-on-Arrival type of visa. Only certain countries are allowed VEs, again the same for VoAs, and then there are some countries that do not qualify for either must obtain a visa prior to entering thailand, usually at a specific embassy.

But similar to extensions vs visa, people usually confuse the terminology of VoA vs VE.

Which is why I preambled with 'most western nationals'...

To be more clear, there is VoA but it is not applicable to MOST of the posters and G7+ nationals.

A visa on arrival is a visa for tourists, therefor a tourist visa.

You mean 'people don't understand 'tourist visa' and 'visa exempt entry''.

Edit:just noticed you already acknowledged the terminology was not correct.

I've always thought it was fairly simple for most western nationals.

If you are going to travel to Thailand for the purpose of tourism and you obtain a visa from a Thai Embassy/Consulate in your country of origin, or any other country (other than Thailand of course) along the way, you have a (ta-da!) TOURIST VISA and all the privileges bestowed upon it, such as extension.

If you arrive at the airport WITHOUT obtaining TOURIST VISA from a Thai Embassy/Consulate in another country, you have a VISA EXEMPT entry and no privileges whatsoever.

Visa-on-arrival is simply a misnomer referring to VISA EXEMPT entry.

More to it than that.

The Thai government doesn't want foreign school teachers getting Thai citizenship.

Employing them 'short-time' nicely solves that little problem.

Legally obtaining Thai Citizenship has no relevance whatsoever. The rules are difficult and circuitous and can take a decade to complete, and are the same for everyone, teachers, divers, entrepreneurs, husbands, whomever. Westerners looking for actual Thai Citizenship are incredibly rare. Residence is a different matter. Thais do not seem to have any issue with foreigners establishing residence if and when they qualify for a visa to support it ,whether you are a teacher or employed in some other sector - foreign chefs suffer much the same issues. Foreign teachers however are routinely exploited by the Thai education system simply because there is an endless supply of them, unlike qualified chefs.

Well, it's a good suggestion, especially for people who are living on border runs. Walen didn't make this new rule, they are just informing people there is an alternative, one that would let them learn Thai and in the long run probably save them money. It's a very long thread and no one is going to read through every post, so the occasional update seems very reasonable to me.

I think most negatives were towards rumour-spreading with no factual basis (50-55) btw...

To me it comes across as unsolicited advertising (again, fully understanding that he is paying the site admin for this privilege). Why not start a searchable thread expounding the virtues of the school, its curriculum, and its potential visa benefits? Those curious, or in need of these services would be targeted, rather than randomly cold-calling posters in quasi-relevant threads.

You don't seem to understand or care, but this new rule would make life extremely difficult for foreign teachers like him who work at government schools. Their work permits are often only for when school is in session, so if they change schools and don't extend at their old one, they have a couple months where they have no visa and are waiting until they have a new contract with a new school, so they can apply for a new non B visa and work permit. They can go apply for a tourist visa, but as I'm sure you're aware (and probably laugh about) they don't make much, and they aren't being paid during the school break either.

Fully understood but... what you don't seem to understand is that the Thai education system has been exploiting NES teachers as a matter of daily business. Being underfunded I sympathize with the authorities predicament BUT the root cause of qualified teachers issues lies with individual schools, agencies and the Ministry of Education exploiting the system by not basing contracts on a annual basis to coincide with employment visa renewal requirements applicable to all sectors of employment. NES teachers are the victims of the Thai english-language education system trying to 'game' their own immigration and visa laws. The system would fail entirely if it weren't for the seeming endless supply of mostly young, native english speakers willing to put themselves through this ordeal to support their lifestyle/travel without fully understanding or researching the situation they are putting themselves in.

Mike2011, seems you don't know much about Walen School. We already have a large number of students who happily study Thai or English and who don't have any visa problems. No need to criticize Walen too much as one day you may need a quality service from a reliable school and then you will be happy that there is a school like Walen. All the best to you.

Sent from my GT-I9190 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Don't know what people are having a go at Walen school.

Could be because of the number of times the same 'suggestion' has been posted in the same thread... And yes, I do realize that he is paying for that privilege.

1. There are plenty of down right inhuman visa rules out there, but I don't see why Thailand should go down that rabbit hole and how that will benefit the country as a whole?

2. A friend of mine once arrived in Moscow at 10 pm, but his visa was only valid for the next day. No problem he though, I will just wait 2 hours in the transit area until midnight, but NIET!

Back on the same plane all the way to Houston. He was upset, especially because once he arrived in the US, the company had another ticket for Moscow ready for him.

1. Refer to SAntiSuk's observation (post 607), which, truly unfortunately, is the reality.

"Shame, but inevitable that under-regulated activities in one part of the world eventually move towards the regulated"

its all about control and lock-stepping with the paranoia of Washington and their patently ridiculous 'Homeland Security' initiatives.

2. In a sarcastic tone I ask, "Did your friend check with the Russian Foreign Ministry regarding waiting in the Transit Area when he booked a ticket arriving BEFORE his visa was valid OR did he just believe in Hollywood stories?"

We're going off topic here, but were the '15 days at landborders' not introduced in 2006 or 2007?

2008-09 I believe...

Just found it... December 2008.

Link to thread OP:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/227227-translation-of-new-15-day-exempt-entry-rule/?p=2379979

If you are unable to grasp the difference between enforcement against the abuse of tourist visas and Nazi genocide/political repression, you are truly an idiot.

You must be referring to the USA...

What's the correct Visa for someone, who lives on his Savings, is not yet 50 (retirement visa), does none business, volunteering, study, is there any????

Don't come now up, with the investment visa (requires 10 million, right).

Asa with most countries in the world, there is not one. As with most countries YOU, as the guest, must figure out which pigeon-hole you can legally fit into. Its not a one-size-fits-all deal and some will not ever fit. C'est la vie.

For me, prior to turning 50 I ran a business I did not particularly want, BUT I made it one I was very interested in as a hobby - restoring old, classic motorbikes. Found my pigeon-hole relatively easily...

About 5 years ago, a friend of mine came to Thailand with his wife and 3 young kids for a 1 month vacation. The reason for the trip was that the youngest kid suffered from asthma especially during the western winter. The Thai climate turned out to be a miracle cure for the kids asthma, so they extended their stay to 60 days by passing one of the land borders during their stay.

Can anybody honestly claim they abused Thailand's visa exempt system and should be forced to travel through Bangkok's traffic (twice) and do a round-trip flight to extend their stay?

Strange, if they arrived visa exempt by air (30 days) they would have only gotten 15 days at a land border. If they arrived on a visa they would already have had 60 days.

But after an arrival by air visa exempt they would under this interpretation still be entitled to a land exit and entry.

About 5 years ago you still got 30 days at a land crossing stevenl.

About 5 years ago, a friend of mine came to Thailand with his wife and 3 young kids for a 1 month vacation. The reason for the trip was that the youngest kid suffered from asthma especially during the western winter. The Thai climate turned out to be a miracle cure for the kids asthma, so they extended their stay to 60 days by passing one of the land borders during their stay.

Can anybody honestly claim they abused Thailand's visa exempt system and should be forced to travel through Bangkok's traffic (twice) and do a round-trip flight to extend their stay?

"Can anybody honestly claim they abused Thailand's visa exempt system..."

Yes.

When they 'discovered' that the Thai climate was a 'miracle cure' and decided to extend their stay beyond the legal limitations of a Visa Exempt entry for this reason they were legally required to exit the country and obtain a proper Tourist Visa from a Thai embassy/consulate abroad to continue the child's hospice. By choosing to do a 'border-run' rather than obtaining a visa, which they may well have been advised was the best course of action, they, probably unwittingly, broke the law. Ignorance equals abuse for the most part. If you do not even take the time to research and comprehend laws how can you expect not to fall victim to them?

Think of the situation in reverse. A Thai child has a malady that is 'miraculously' cured on a vaycay with the family to Aus. To get to Aus in the first place the Thai family had to jump more hoops, squeeze into more pigeon-holes, and supply reams more paper just do begin the visa application process - no Visa-On-Arrival or Visa Exempt for them. THEN when their visa expired do you believe Aussie Immigration would allow them to 'hop' on over to NZ or Indo and return WITHOUT obtaining another visa (a minimum 30 day process BTW)?

I don't understand what makes following a country's visa and immigration laws so difficult. Its not about individual convenience peeps.

The highly regarded American poet Tobias Keith Covel wrote about this:

We got winners, we got losers

Chain smokers and boozers

And we got yuppies, we got bikers

We got thirsty hitchhikers

And the girls next door dress up like movie stars

We got cowboys, we got truckers

Broken-hearted fools and suckers

And we got hustlers, we got fighters

Early birds and all-nighters

And the veterans talk about their battle scars

Hmm, hmm, hmm I love this bar

Personally I like his prose re Willy!!!

@FD&S - I have just completed a mini-poll of a half dozen of my friends in the oil/gas biz. They in turn have been speaking with all of their friends, probably a half-dozen or so each... none are in the least concerned with the changes in interpretation/enforcement... seems like its easy enough to have your shizzle together.