Maizefarmer

Mobi

No no, nothing is unusual in the “Land of Smiles” – I’ve heard & seen it all before.

You’ve come back and asked again about crop ideas………

Really need to know something about the land. Example: if cattle are going to be considered one of the crops to grow could be maize (corn). But ain’t going to work on land that is flooded or soaked through during the wet season, and bone dry in the dry season…..

What’s growing there now, and do you have water – and if you haven’t seen the land yet, make sure that when land is chosen that access to year round fresh water is possible (otherwise NOTHING will grow to feed the cattle and there will be a big red dot next to the dry season financial spreadsheets!)

Where is the land relative to what’s around it – is it low or high – and now is the time to be looking (and next month or so). You want to check out land options when things are wet so that you can see what is draining and what is not. Again, land that becomes waterlogged in the wet season is seldom evident as such in the dry season, and you can get spun any story in the dry season. You’ll have a mess on your hands come wet season only to find your chosen land is a bog which you can’t keep cattle on or grow crops on.

Really need to know something about the land and the conditions before anyone can give you pointers on any type of crop of livestock

Tim

Another potential candidate for the IFFA Isaan Farang Farmers Association?

There is a ton of info on rubber plantations recently on a couple of the threads posted – which will tell you a lot – and there is also a fair bit on cattle.

The short of it – in both cases – is that you have A LOT OF HARD WORK ahead of you, if you are going to make a success of it (i.e. make a living out of it).

The fact that you are saying rubber plantations says something about the land – limited water(??) – in which case you are starting with one hand tied behind your back (commercially) at least as far as cattle are concerned.

So the first question has to be – have you got access to/get a constant supply of fresh and clean water year round?? Yes or No

The second question: what’s currently growing on the land (that will give me some idea of soil condition type, and what it will/can support).

The third question: what happens to that land in the rainy season (does it get all soggy and flooded or does it drain out quite well).

I’m going to stay out of the rubber side of it – know nothing about the subject – but

subject to the answers to the above 3 questions, there may/may not be a livestock potential………….and we’ll take it from there.

Tim

Nawtilus

Those astro-prices for Ostriches are over, but yes – in the beginning it was like that.

I should have added – there are a few different types of ostriches – the ones I have are African Blues (which give the most meat, leather and feathers)

A mature breeding pair in Thailand can fetch you around Bht100k – and I expect to have 2 pairs of my current lot breeding next year – so add Bht 200k to those earlier figures I gave – starts looking really attractive.

TT

hel_l – that irrigation system is a Thai design for sure (!)

Those are ferro-cement pipes used to support the plants?

How long for them to get to that growth stage – or have they just been stuck in as cut offs from established plants?

What about keeping the land clear of weeds and grass – once those sprinklers get growing the grass and weeds are going to shoot up everywhere.

And how long will each plant keep producing for?

Tim

TT

How many fruit (individual) per kilo on average?

Tim

Also try Business FLight Centre -one of the Soi's a the top of Sukhumvit - same side of Sukhumvit as the Beer Garden - I think its the Soi just before.

They have a good relationship with Gulf Air e.g. I got a Business Class return to London USD 647 2 months back, over the counter same day. Economy was about USD 297 - which was only half full, so I decamped to economy and stretched out flat across the centre seats.

Check Bangkok Post - they advertise just about everyday.

Global Home (Centre)

......have branches in Udon/T & KK and most major provincial towns

I think you can buy them with/without the usual 5hp Honda gas engine (meaning petrol)

Visarunner - 3Mil Bht investment.

Break that down for me - where does the 3mill go, how many chickens do you have to sell to get that +/- 100K every 6 weeks or so ect ect..........

Frankafey - couple of nice articles there - I liked the one about Metal/Steel in the Field - thanks for that link.

Dukes

Okay - some feedback from a neighbour who has an egg farm a few km's down the road.

Question - can you make a profit from 500 hundred hens?

As a hobby with alternative forms of income coming in - fine.

As a commercial enterprize for all income, no.

You could start with 500 hens - to see what involved but untill you get to around 3000 - 4000 hensyou won't be seeing a profit. ...... and this is from a guy who lives a pretty modest Thai rural lifestyle.

He gets on average 2800 eggs a day (from 3600 hens), uses family labour (to keep costs down)

Has a contract for all production - they go to a petfood factory and bakery.

All feed is commercial (only way he says he can sustain viable egg production rates).

Clears out between 10 - 15 dead hens a day (a natural & within average daily loss for Thai egg farms ).

Gets good quality stock from a guy who imports from Malaysia (these are the big rusty red colured hens you see -or don't because the real big commercial farms keep them in closed barns)

Monthly earnings - "San - San Qua" - meaning "Bht 100k to 100k & a bit" p/mnth (after all expenses associated with maintaining the hens).

Something to think about...

Tim

Sorry - I put a reply here that should have been put elswhere - s Have moved it.

Tim

ChuckD

Hi - I'm not far from Loei

There are a fe ex-pats around but not many - mostly NGO types, but also a few with girlfriends.

They "comes & goes but mostly at the end of the day they goes".

It is in my opinion the least spoilt part of Thailand - little infrastructure, and lots of land avalible. Prices range from well of Baht1million for less than 1/2 rai (in the centre of town), to less than Baht 10k for a blank piece of land 10km out of town with no water electricity (usualy old paddy fields).

You can get a nice piece of land (around 1/2 - 3/4 rai) pretty close to the centre in one of the residential parts for Baht 400k - 700k - and then, build a house which as you would know can cost more than the land. All in much cheaper than Pattaya and you'll get much more for your money. Building materials are also cheaper up here.

Much more relaxed about planning permission - that said, look at next paragraph (which answers your Tesco/Lotus question)!!

Lotus/Tesco - - all sorts of problems, with local Thai papers theorising on who was paid what to get round some of the planning permission restrictions (size of car park was one of them), and as it stands at the moment the talk is it may all come down and be moved to another site (although I doubt it at the end of the day - Tesco/Lotus will just open its wallet to sort that out, which may well be what its all about to start with).

To sum it up - the centre is not much different from other Thai provincial town centres, not as buzy though. Very beautiful countryside. Coldest province in Thailand in winter (0degrees C has occured and 5 - 6 degree Celcius is not unusual on a winter morning). Summer: blazing hot dry as a bone, not as humid as Bangkok.

If you have kids: government schools are as elsewhere (with lots of pupils per classroom).

No established ex-pat community get together - but would be nice and the more ex-pats around, the quicker something like that can be established.

Tim

I am considering buying my wife a house near Loei and would like some farang information. I own a home in Pattaya but will give this to my daughter when she marries and I might move to the house I purchase unless my wife becomes my ex-wife.

A few questions come to mind concerning Loei:

I understand there is a nine hole golf course there. Do they have golf carts and can the course be accessed easily?

Is there an expat community there and are they generally friendly? I'm from Texas and I like to calmly socialize at a watering hole. Not a drunk though.

What are some land costs around Loei? We are just looking for a couple of rai unless there is a house for sale that we like.

Is the Lotus store open yet?

Any comments you guys that live around there can provide me will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry Dukes - can't help you on that, I know nothing about chicken/egg farming other than to say that my guess would be that if you are going to run such a farm on a commercial basis take careful note of the "cautions" expressed by others so far in response to your query.

I can see it sustaining a Thai family tuned into the economics of living in Thailand, but it looks like a fine line to sustain the sorts of lifestyles/expense(s) we farangs are accustomed to.

I can't see decent "margins" on a commercial basis with 500 fowls, after the mortagage is paid for, the car is paid for, living expenses, travel expenses (lot of eggs to sell for a plane ticket to the UK or USA!), and the old regular visa run (untill you get permanent residance).

I think the the question should be - will his really be a business that is going to give me what i want, what is my motive - yer, thats a big one, the motives are so often in the heart and not the head (have seen it so many times).

But don't let my cautionary opinion turn you off, it is after all just my opinion (with the hindsight of living and working here nearly half my life) - look at the practicalites very carefully, do your homework, get a business plan sorted out, sort out some objectives and financial forecasting - and if you feel you can make a success out of it - put your best effort into it and go for it.

No shoratage of advise about chicken and egg farming in Thailand - its a major sector of agriculture in the country. The smallest commercial egg farm I know of is a family about 5 km's from me - they are successful with somewhere between 2000 - 3000 layers. I'll ask the old boy next time tomorrow when I drive past what he reckons the cut-off point is (in terms of number of chickens required) to make egg farming comemrcialy viable.

Tim

I put up a 2 x 4 open structure - tin roof about 10m x 8m - about 3.5m off the ground (ostriches get tall!), but no sides to it - totally open. Just so that they had cover from the mid-day sun, and they used it a lot.

The water trough with constant dripping freash water - just as important as it is with cows if not more so - was placed underneath this covering.

Ground should be grassed ideally, but if not bare ground will do.

Go over the ground with a fine toothcomb and remove every bit of broken glass, plastic, wire ect............... ###### birds will swallow anything (had one take my pipe out my top pocket and swallow it - and anything shiny like a cigerrette lighter - it'll be gone in a flash).

Leave all the stones on the ground - even the small ones - ostriches will recycle these through there digeestive system and use them as "grinders" in their stomachs.

Water Water Water - can't stress enough the importance of FRESH WATER - either have it running or change it twice daily.

I am not the person to give you "professional" advise if you are going to do this commercially, you need to go off and speak to the guys from CP Group, or one of the Uni's that have some knowldege.

There is a ton of info on the net - very commercially orientated, which to be honest, I did not pay 2 hoots of attention to - other than establishing that they needed a certain amount of space and x, y and z amount of various nutirents/protein to grow which I could get from my forage and a certain amount of commercial vitamin added to the water.

I made sure they were vaccinated when I purchased them.

I done some basic sums and took a brief look at the market - the indication was it is viable - so its something I may well try out in a couple of years time - I want to wait and see what happens when they start laying eggs and what the success rate of that side of it is.

Tim

Why not ostriches - I bought 12 chicks at 8 weeks old about 16 months back on a "hobby" basis.

Cost then: Baht 2800 (each) = Baht 33 600

Value now: Males x 4 Baht 18 000 (each) 72 000

Females x 8 Baht 12 000 (each) 96 000

Total: 168 000

Theoretical Profit: Baht Baht 134 400

Thats their value live. Slaughtered they would be a worth a lot more, and yes there is a market for there leather in Thailand - which is worth more than their meat (and their is a Thai market for that as well as the feathers).

They are susceptiable to bird flu - just like chickens - but can be vaccinated (which would obviosuly be the way to go with such a high value product).

Feed Costs: Haven't a clue - they were brought up on exactly the same forage diet (always fresh cut though) as the cattle (mixtures of maize and various forage grasses well chopped up). The only extra they have had is a regular dose of commercial vitamin additive to their fresh water (same stuff Thai chickenfarmers mix with the water they feed chickens), and the occassional sack of crushed shellfish shells (fresh water or marine - crab shells, oyster shells, mussel shells ect ect ...) to add extra roughage for their stomachs.

I've had no health problems with them - wish I could get that return on a cow over the same period of time.

Oh, land required: all kept together on 6 rai of land - but I am told you can keep 100 - 200 on that amount of land - only need to give "pairs" their own patch if you want them to breed.:

As for chicken/egg farming: its all been said - do your maths, do your homework, understand your market blah blah, blah blah......

Tim

Your'e quite right JB - Bran is "lam" is Loa/Isaan and Khmer and I was also I little confused because RDC said "rice polishings"

Anyway - as a feed or feed additive it has little differance: - a bit more lipolytic enzyme, so is worse to store. You can heat it up to dry it out - but then becomes useless as a binder, and looses most of its Vitiman B content. Its only use then is as a fiber additive - which from what I pick up from what RDC has said is not a problem.

Summary: Treat Bran & Polishings the same: same benefits, same problems.

Tim

RDC

Correct – no mistake, I am clear regards which rice processing by products you refer to.

It contains a high percentage of lipolytic enzyme. Result - it has to be fed fresh, or at the latest within a about 4 days of been seperated from the rice, otherwise it becomes to rancid (because of the lipoltic enzyme).

It means you can't buy bulk to store and use for feed or a feed mix - unless you can justify the incurred costs of cooled storage, or the extra cost associated with small volume purchase on a regular basis. In Thai conditions, the rancidity increases by as much as 1% per day.

Result: - you would be restricted to buying quantities for 3 or 4 days most, and be burdened with the hassle of ensuring that what you were getting in the first place was “fresh” - else after one or two days it would be a waste of money. To garuntee freshness, use smell and ask the miller how old it is and I would use a ph and moisture test each and every time. Again, I am honking on about the “practicality” issues, but I think they are valid considerations in this instance.

In a quick word with my other half I am told that it is used in certain formulated “finishing feeds” for up to 5 weeks before market/slaughter as the lipolytic enzme helps to add graininess to the fat and soften the meat.

You are correct – it is widely used by Thai feed-mills, and the reason why is simple: it is a good bulk creator to the volume of the feed (i.e. adds volume and weight economicly, and it is a good natural binder - the heat processes used in the manufacture of feedstock releases the fat and oil content of the polishings, binding all the seperate feed parts together – and as I am sure you would know – if the feed is a powder, it is because during production it was at one stage a solid pellet which has been dried and then crushed.

As a constituent in any feed ration you intend to mix yourself RDC, limit each animal’s intake of polishings to not more than 3.5kg for a dry cow and not more than 5.5kg for a lactating animal. If you want all the detail on the reasoning behind that, happy to share – but otherwise won’t bore you.

But while on the subject of rice and rice byproducts as a feed or feed additive, here is something else I think you should give some thought to.

Its called Rice Mill Feed – and I cannot think what the Thai colloquial word is – but I think you may have an option here.

It is a mixture of all the milled rice by products.

Some rules regarding its choice and usage.

Ensure what you get or are offered comes from a multistage rice mill, and not from a single stage rice mill. From a multistage mill the cost is nearly half what it is from a single stage mill in Thailand – its all to do with the rice production costs associated with the respective mill processing method(s).

For lactating cows you want a composition as follows:

Hull Content: 58 – 62%

Polishing Content: 5 – 9%

Bran Content: 30 – 40%

For a dry cow you want a composition as follows

Hull Content: 50 – 58%

Polishing Content: 8 – 12%

Bran Content: 35 – 45%

The Hulls stimulate appetite and are excellent for liver function. They can be used for “bulk” in concentrate mix or as added to silage or fresh forage at feed time.

The Bran is an excellent source of Vitamin B, and can be fed alone as a ration of lactating cows. For livestock going to market for meat processing, like polishings the Bran will help soften the meat if used as a standalone ration – but do not allow it to constitute more than around 35% of the entire daily feed ration, as the oil content will build up in the fat and meat excessively

Really what I am trying to do here RDC is offer a number of viable options based on what it sounds like is readily avaible in your part of the world. If formulated properly and feed properly, it will go a long way to filling in the gap.

Yup – cassava is well up this year, and there is every indication it will go even higher. Depending on the quantity you want you may consider getting an 8 or 10 wheeler down to Chon Buri/ Pattaya area where you could probably pick up a 10-20 ton load for about 15-20% cheaper than what it costs where you are. I am seriously thinking of getting about 100 tons this year - and will be buying it down there, as it is always.

So long as you keep it dry and keep the rats and mice out of it – it will keep long and well.

Tim

RDC

Rice "Polishings" as a feed?

No harm done - will fill the cow up, but of little benefit at all, and have next to nothing in the way of nutritients, protien ect........ Fiber content in particular is low.

In summary: fine as a fill up, next to useless as a milk yield feed.

No pob's with feeding Fang Mak, but you need to add something to it to provide the UIP content for the small intestine - anything: it can be brewers waste, pure fishmeal, concentrate, cassava chips, cassava leaves (fresh or ensiled).

I note your comments regards the economic feasability versus increased milk yield - but still, even if you add just 25% of what you have caluclated as the right or ideal amount, adding just that little will result in both an increase in milk yield in lactating cows, and increased growth rate/body score for growing animals.

Do some homework and find some crop/product that you can get your hands on locally to add for UIP while waiting for your fresh/ensiled forage arrangements to come on line.

Tim

RDC & MF

At the University of Khon Kaen in the Faculty of Agriculture

there are 2 research centres :-

The Tropical Livestock Feed Resource Research and Development Center

and, The Plant Breeding Research Center for Sustainable Agriculture

In the first, they have been researching local plants and

plant residues from industrial processes as supplements for treated rice

straw - including cassava amongst many others.

Well worth talking to them.

I have misplaced the name of the Professor heading up the projects

However, one good contact in the faculty would be to talk to Suwit Laohasiri...

His email [email protected]

The Tel Number 043 202 368

Good Luck !

Z21

Yup thats correct - my wife lectures there and is very much involved in various livestock projects. KK Uni is one of South East Asia's leading livestock/animal husbandry research centres.

Tim

…. which is what I said in the first place (i.e. submersible pump).

Your description of “requirements” has taken on a very different picture since you first posted the question. Is there anything that needs to be added to the requirement?

I have a 92m hole that was sunk in 1994. All inclusive, except the Grundfoss submersible pump. Cost for hole was Baht 104 000. The guy turned up with a huge Ingersoll Rand truck mounted compressor and used water at around bar 600 to drill the 12” diameter hole, clearing it out with clay slurry. It was done and lined in 2 and a half days. Never had a problem with it – as good as the day it was sunk.

I would think hard before going down the DIY route. The theory of borehole drilling (as on the net) versus the practise is very different - and Thai conditions, if anything just make it that much more problematic. It’s going to be frustrating if you hit shale, sand stone or water indeed, before you get down to the depth you want to. You are going to use much more slurry than you budgeted for, you are going to have to have a big tank to settle it all out before reuse, you have to keep the slurry density just right – a big mess afterwards, lots of tubing. Then you have to get the lining down – not always easy. There will always be some complication or other that the theory didn’t explain. Let the pro’s deal with it.

Nice toy to have – but the cost of getting it done professionally should not be much different from what it would cost you to purchase a drill. Mind you, you may well be able to sell the drill afterwards to some local, who if he’s seen it drilled with may well want it – even if you “give it away” at half cost it will have saved you some cash.

Lots of guys around who can drill a borehole, fewer who can show you a hole they bored 10-12years ago that is still productive and or hasn’t silted up. And the silting up of deep holes is very much dependant on the quality of the bore casing/lining – which if the bore it wasn’t supported with the correct density slurry when been bored, will be great to start off with, but over time the soil will collaspse and tighten around the lining and reduce the flow rate down to potentially a trickle or nothing. And when that happens at 50m, it’s a nuisance to say the least.

The 2 sizes most drillers will offer you in Thailand will be 6”for domestic supplies or 12” diameter for agricultural/industrial supplies.

No – my opinion is get a guy in to do the job, with a garuntee (some garuntees): no water – no payment and that the well will produce all year round. The professionals will be able to give you graphs for water table levels for the last 20 years or so in your area, and will also be willing to offer you the above garuntee (in writing for what a written garuntee in Thailand may/may not be worth).

Also check what lining you are been offered

Check what hole diameter you are been offered

Check what flow rates you are been garunteed

Check what depth you are been offered and ensure its well bellow the driest w/table level experienced over the last 10 – 15 years (else the garuntee of water flow can’t be worth much).

Check that everything is included – i.e. slurry, taking away the mess afterwards (there will be a mess left after the hole is bored).

And lastly, for what it worth I can put you in touch with the guy who done my hole - he is still in business and will go anywher in the country.

Yes – you will have to go down to the local district office and get permission to sink it, but it’s a formality and you are not going to get turned down unless there is some known reason why the ground water in your area is not safe. In your case there are no industries so there will be no regional volume quotes, which sometimes are also a reason why holes can't be sunk in certain places. But in your area as you describe - there should be not reason why not.

Tim

RDC

Rice "Polishings" as a feed?

No harm done - will fill the cow up, but of little benefit at all, and have next to nothing in the way of nutritients, protien ect........ Fiber content in particular is low.

In summary: fine as a fill up, next to useless as a milk yield feed.

No pob's with feeding Fang Mak, but you need to add something to it to provide the UIP content for the small intestine - anything: it can be brewers waste, pure fishmeal, concentrate, cassava chips, cassava leaves (fresh or ensiled).

I note your comments regards the economic feasability versus increased milk yield - but still, even if you add just 25% of what you have caluclated as the right or ideal amount, adding just that little will result in both an increase in milk yield in lactating cows, and increased growth rate/body score for growing animals.

Do some homework and find some crop/product that you can get your hands on locally to add for UIP while waiting for your fresh/ensiled forage arrangements to come on line.

Tim

TT

I have to tread real careful here before I put my foot in my mouth.

My statement(s) on this subject are based on knowledge and experience – not on Google searches which I fear may be my undoing. However lets, run through this point by point and reply to the points you raise. As I have said before, if I am going to make a statement, if challenged on the accuracy of it I need to reply – or shut up in the first place.

About the abbreviations – I should have at least stated what they mean:

A cows digestive system sees "protein" as DIP (degradable Intake Protein) which is deal't with in the rumen, and UIP (Undegradable Intake Protein) which is deal't with in the small intestine.

Actually that’s an over simplification over the process – it is actually fed on in the ruman by microbes creating ammonia. The portion of DIP that is not used by the microbes in the ruman will degrade into amino acid(s) which will pass through to the small intestine and be absorbed there. At this stage it becomes UIP

Here goes:

Both proteins are the sum of the CP (crude protein) of any given feed

Yes and No – it depends what you are feeding. In the case of fang or fang mak and cassava it would be true to say the sum total would be from what the cow was feeding on.

In the case of commercial concentrate this would not be true, as in this case the protein is been fed as/or in its UIP form, it is not the product of microbial action in the rumen.

We are talking about rumen degradable and undegradable (bypass) protein?

Correct.

For a cow to ingest 400gms of protein (of any type) she will have to eat 11 kilos of cassava chips, presuming 4% protein and 90% dry matter.

In theory assuming the mathamatics is correct that would be true. However, because a cow is consuming 11 kilos of cassava chips, would not automatically mean it would ingest 400grams of protein (of any type). The actual amount absorbed would be dependant on the balance between UIP and DIP- and it was this point TT, that I was trying to convey in my posting.

Fang or Mak will be broken down in the rumen much more so than cassava – leaving little for UIP to be moved on to the small intenstine for conversion to amino acid.

Conversly, a cassava only diet can potentialy “overload” the animal with ammonia in the rumen, which when absorbed from the rumen into the blood stream will reduce milk production and stress the liver – which job it is to extract the excess rumen ammonia from the blood and convert it to urea for excretion in the urine.

To take it a step further, the importance of amino acids in cattle are primarily for growth through a hormone known as “bovine somatotropin”.

There are about 180 a/acids to this hormone, and I mention the amount not to try and be a “clever boy” (and that figure is probably off a bit one way or the other), but because - and here the whole relivanceto this subject is: Bingo - they are the same amino acids which stimulate milk production.

In summary: with the reduced UIP which the small intestine will get from a fang/fang mak diet only, as opposed to a diet with cassava added, there will be less amino acid avalibility for the cow - resulting in less growth and/or less milk production.

Growth has nothing to do with this note but I add it as in Thailand it is a significant manisfestation of low UIP and amino acid avalibility.

I have tried to keep it simple so all can get some sense out of it.

Tim

SHEEP

(4 + (26 x 84))

+

GOATS

( 26 + ( 4 x25))

= ? (work it out)

Tim

So whats the answer?

TT

Do you understand the difference between DIP protein and UIP protein, and the role DIP’s versus UIP’s play in milk yield of lactating cows?

From a DIP point of view you are correct in describing fang and cassava has having similar protein content (DIP), but from a UIP point of view the two are very different – I must disagree with you when you describe the difference as “academic”. It is far from academic.

The one is avalible straight from the rumen for the cow to use, the other requires microbial breakdown in the rumen before the cow can use it.

It is generally accepted that DIP can only supply roughly 7% - 8% of total CP requirements. So if you have a cow been fed loads of commercial concentrate which for arguments sake is 25, 30 or even 50%, it could be a complete waste of time (and money – the big issue with all dairy farms in Thailand if you consider how tight argins are) if there is a low DIP in the feed/concentrate. To enable the cow to benefit from that extra protein content or for it to be able to increase its total crude protein intake it needs to have its DIP intake increased so the rumen can use all the UIP and CP. In the case of lactating cows (in my experience in Thailand – and I say my experiance because someone is going to get on the internet and say they are in such and such place and they only use X amount) you should be ensuring that at least 45% - 50% of total CP intake is made up from DIP – which can come from Cassava/cassava chips (ie. fresh or dried) but it will not come from a diet of rice straw.

Brewery dreggs/mash/hopps are also an excellent alternative/compliment to livestock feeds - but most of what comes out of Thai breweries goes striaght to the CP group - who long time back relasied the benefit and setup contracts with Thai brewers. They use it in the production of the livestock feeds the sell commercially to chicken, cattle and pig farmers. It all goes to the CP feedmill on the left hand side of the road just past saraburi heading towards Bangkok.

We've all missed the boat on that one...................

Hope that helps.

Tim

Andy

Keep it simple mate - if you have access to AC household power, that is the way to go - its the simplest and cheapest.

No, windmills are not that common in Thailand (but do exist). Solar power is an option - as well, but like windmills requires an extra budget and is dependant on the weather.

Your first option to consider is an ac submersible pump - which can be obtained from just about town/village hardware/machinarey dealer. Check that it has a float switch on to prevent dry running and install a float switch in the tank to prevent over filling.

All told you shouldn't have to spend more than around Bhat 5K - 7K (dpending on the size of the pump - but that should be fine for the average hosuhold).

Tim

G'day Cockies,

Ive enjoyed following this blog, its good to see information and experience being pooled for the benefit of all.

I will be looking for alternative water on my small plot of land soon and was wondering if windmill pumps are common in Thailand. I am from Aussie so of course they are very common but I dont recall seeing any in the area of Issan I will be building our house which is West of Khon Kaen.

I will be sinking a bore soon and I want to consider the different pumping methods from the ground to the already existing storage tanks

Any info on this would be appreciated, google has let me down on this one.

Hoo'roo

Andy

I

RDC

I went to KK Uni today (the missus had to go so I took the day off and drove down).

In the library I found some Thai articles which are a summary of Chinese research. To keep it as short and as to the point as possible – as well as practical, the following may interest you.

A large scale project in China in 1998 was conducted into the use of “rice-straw” as a feed alternative.

The cows chosen were randomly selected across both age and lactation cycles completed (i.e. – a complete mix). The cows were Holstein/Friesian mix.

The animals were fed 2 meals a day over a 56 day period. Both intake and rejection was recorded (in kg’s) of each animal. This was compared with milk production over the same period.

The sponsors of this programme were, Khon Kaen Uni, the TDPO (Thai Dairy Farming Organisation), Newcastle Upon Tyne Uni and the Thailand Research Fund (TRF). It’s just that it was undertaken in China.

The composition of the rice straw was as follows:

Dry Matter 93%, which on a percentile basis was made up as follows:

Ash 14.3%, Crude protein 4.3%, NDF 76.8%, ADF 45.3%

The first question has to be – how does this compare with Thai rice straw? It’s not far off actually – and for the purpose of the experiment is sufficient close so as not to have a significant impact on experiment results (i.e. use Thai rice straw and you will get the same results in principal).

What happened: - milk production dropped, and as it dropped so to did Fat, Protein, Lactose and SNF of the milk – as follows.

Fat started off at 4.39% - after 56 days was 3.71%

Protein dropped from 3.63% - after 56 days was 3.21%

Lactose dropped from 4.32 – after 56 days was 3.89%

SNF dropped from 8.91% - after 56 days was 7.93%

Now these differences do not sound much, but they are significant indicators that the cows diet is severely lacking.

At the end of the 56 days another experiment commenced – the objective of which was to increasingly replace a portion of the rice straw with a “supplemental feed” – to increase carbohydrate and high bypass protein – both “intake values” which significantly impact milk yield. The “supplemental feed” was cassava chips – which are abundantly available in Thailand and dried out are a brilliant and economical feed additive for cattle – beef & dairy.

There was a steady and consistent increase in milk yield and milk composition to the point that after.

The feed “exchange” continued in 5% steps p/week until the increase in milk yield and composition levelled off. This took 62 days, by which time all cows were back up to original levels, and 38% had increased levels of milk production. No correlation was found between increase versus age and/or increase versus lactation cycle(s) (i.e. it was really random and showed the changes recorded were down to feed composition).

I have not completed reading the article (which I now have a photo-copy of) as I was digging around for other things as well. But, this clearly demonstrates the problem you had.

Now I have no experience feeding rice straw (treated or untreated) except for one occasion which was flop, so I can’t offer any personal advise on it, but I am wondering if you can get over the shortfall you anticipate by going back to rice straw (while you sort out the fresh forage/silage problem), and supplement it with cassava – which is available around your area. The evidence is that combined with rice straw it can offer a viable feed alternative.

Dried cassava chips keep well, and can in my experience be mixed with any forage grass or maize. It has a high bypass protein content – not far off the bypass content of commercial fishmeal based concentrates and can be used to reduce commercial concentrate costs.

Tim

Not a farming subject – but for those of you who have youngsters in Thailand and are wondering where they should be sent to get a good quality education – take note as follows: On satillite TV Sunday morning, my daughter was astounded to watch the following: – a programme called the GREAT BRITISH QUIZ, the question was as follows:

4 Sheep and 26 Goats go to a party. Each sheep took 25 goat guests, and each goat took 84 sheep guests. In total how many animals were at the party?

Now then, this was about 3am-4am in the morning UK time so I guess a lot of people who were up may well have been under the weather, but still.

She counted somewhere between 30 – 40 phones calls over the space of a couple hours – before she gave up watching. Yup, no one came up with the right answer – not one person.

European/USA passport my be great fun – but I wonder about the quality of education in the UK.

I do know about the quality of education in China (nowadays) – its XXXXhot, well organised and well disciplined – as good as Japan

I have very serious concerns about the world my children are growing up into.

How many of you have children and what is your opinion regards the education they are getting in Thailand? What problems do you recognise in the Thai school education system? What about the quality of the teachers?

Who intends to send their kids to Europe/USA for education at some time during their schooling – and why?

All opinions welcome………….

Tim

I should add that when using the micro wave method the idea is to heat slowly at a low heat, and check every 30 seconds or so – and then just keep repeating the 30second heating interval until the weight cease to drop anymore – which indicates you have extracted as much moisture as can practically be extracted.

It;s a good idea to mash up the crop with a Thai pestal & mortar, and spread it out on a plate – speeds up the moisture extraction.

If you start off with a “mashed up” weight of exactly 100grams (and make sure you know the weight of the plate) it makes it very easy to work things out on a percentage basis

Why a microwave and not a stove – because as most of you will know – the heat a microwave oven generates is proportional to the moisture content of the product/foo that is been heated, and once it is dry it stops heating i.e.you will not destroy any of the dry matter or residual mass of whatever you are weighing - you will only be driving out the water/mositure

Tim