Maizefarmer

i've finally got some land and want to plant a few mango, papaya, banana trees for my own consumption....

any experience with, which is easiest, and if much maintenance needs to be done? or can i just plant em and wait for the fruit?

If its only a couple rai and a non-commercial exercise- go for it, take the advise of locals who grow around you, keep your inputs low, keep it simple and above all enjoy it - in Thailands climate, just about anything will flower and produce fruit with little input.

Don't worry about the odd bug - its quite natural to have leaves chomped by all sorts of creepy crawlies, and then they move on to the neighbours yard.....

From:

http://www.checkbiotech.org/blocks/dsp_doc...fm?doc_id=10129

- and I’ll add at this point, for as many different articals one can find, you can find different figures – this article however seems to be a good middle of the road set of figures

“In the tests in the Northeast, the average total revenue per hectare for farmers was around 67,000 baht from growing 416 kg a year - 12,727 kg, or two million baht in 30 years. Estimated biodiesel production per hectare was about 3,000 litres over the same 30 years”

Baht67K for 416kg – that has to be end product (i.e. 4kg seed pod produces around 1litre biodiesel)

I hectare = about 6.5 rai, therefore 67/6.5 = Baht10300 p/year per rai or Baht 860 per/month (mmm… still tight, but I can see it appealing to some folk whose land aint much good for anything else).

Same article goes on to say:

“D1 says it can refine up to five million litres of Jatropha oil per year from plantations totalling 31,205 rai. It takes four kilogrammes of Jatropha seeds to refine into one litre of oil.”

Baht 2 000 0000 over 30years per hectare, which – do your math, comes back to roughly Baht 860 p/rai per month.

Yes – it would appear I got my figures wrong - which doesn’t suprize me, those figures were really too low to be credible or make sense.

Now thats still tight, the average veggie farmer will get more than Baht 860 per month per rai - but I can see it starting to make sense on a large scale where the inputs for other crops on a large scale would simply push the scale of economies beyound a breakeven point. Still, no -- not for me - it still equates to your 1 rai producing the equivilant to buy less than a tank of diesel per month for the average pickup.

But 1890 litres per hectare – hel_l, Chownah – that would equate to over Baht 3k per month per rai !!!! – now, that is VERY VERY attractive by any standard. Not been sarcastic, not challenging – but that figure puts this crop into "super crop" catergories if that is a possible 50 rai would wipe out my fuel bill (and a bit).

Tim

Have just got up to milk my cows!!!!

Can anyone in BKK tell me what is actually going on down there at the moment (i.e. now - early morning) - or is this all a storm in a teacup.

Tim

Actuall TT I considered that - but look at the figures - even using the residue as a fodder (which is actually not to bad for what it is - although the plant yield and residue is not much), it still does not make any sense.

1rai will produce roughly 60 litres bio-diesel per year.

What does diesel cost now? - about Baht27 p/litre.

So "growing" biodiesel, even if it was worth normal diesel (which it is not and that's the whole objective) would earn you Baht 1620 per rai per year or Baht 135 per month.

I just can't see the economics in it - even if it was worth 5 or 10 times that it still doesn't earn you much per rai per month.

And that too is not its real worth - its real worth is actually the differance between the normal price of diesel and what this stuff costs to grow - so suddenly your theoretical Baht135 per month per rai becomes becomes something around Baht 100 per month!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll earn 10 times more growing hay.

It's an absolute complete no brainer.

PS - the figures I am using are quoted from an IMO publication - someone please tell me I have got my math wrong.

Tim

1 hectare (about 6-7rai) will give you about 400kg of biodiesel per year or about 6-7 tankfuls for the average pickup (and that is with everything working just right based on around 4kg of seed to 1kg of biodiesel).

Tim

Adding the residue in with the cattle feed, as a high protien source, would add to the economics of it.

Regards

Checkout:

www.jatropha.de/Thailand/index.htm

At the bottom of the page is a link to a document which contains a rather good study - specifically aginst the background of Thai conditions.

You will need to download a copy of Winrar (any Winrar programme will do - not just the one advertised) to open it.

You will see the theory is somewhat different from reality - look at it like this:

1 hectare (about 6-7rai) will give you about 400kg of biodiesel per year or about 6-7 tankfuls for the average pickup (and that is with everything working just right based on around 4kg of seed to 1kg of biodiesel).

Compare the cost of diesel to the cost of producing that and ask yourself how much you need to produce per year a) for your own consumption, and then for it to be economically viable as a farm crop or business project.

Tim

Oh hel_l…… what kind of reply is that Chownah!

Read what I wrote – yes, good idea, plant sun hemp, on balance it’s a good choice, nothing wrong with it, and added it will be a good idea at some point to know just how much nitrogen you have in the soil.

Makes sense doesn’t it.

And what do you do – you come back with a whole set of qualifications & challenges to what I contributed. You have often sought to take challenge my contributions. You will selectively look for a point (or points) to isolate them out of the context of what I have said, and take some or other issue with it. What for (?).

Read what CNXPAT said: “in 2 months time they would be harvesting the rice crop around where he lives”.

He made no mention about organic rice farming.

Granted, and I quote from what you said: “As an organic farmer let me just say that life should be so sweet that by growing one crop of sun hemp a year I could have too much nitrogen......only in my dreams”, in your case excessive nitrogen would not be an issue as, as you say yourself that is your “manure crop” (i.e. your methodology of getting nitrogen into the soil). But I doubt that to be the case with the farmers around him – they will be average Thai farmers who use loads of nitrogen based fertilisers (especially in the case of rice in which nitrogen is its primary requirement).

That was the background against which I submitted my contribution – not against your specific circumstances (i.e. organic), and against that background, I am sorry but I must disagree with you - there is a very real chance that both application of commercial fertilisers and green cropping/manure cropping – without instituting a programme to monitor nitrogen levels - has the potential to effect the soil with excessive nitrogen with the result that future rice harvests could be reduced from a whole host of potential problems that are associated with excessive nitrogen.

Tim

I'll concurr with CHOWNAH on this issue - whatever you decide to do, the objective should be to get the soil into as good condition as is possible for the next rice crop - and if that means running a nitrogen fix programme for a few months then there ain't much around that will beat S/hemp.

However (and I must say right at the start I am NOT a rice expert by any measure - so I stand to be corrected), rotating wet riceland with a dry soil crop can be a double edged sword. Research at KK Uni has shown that "bad managment" of nitrogenous rates (meaning excessive nitrogen) is a catalyst for disease in rice fields - but not nematode types. In summary, any programme to enhance Nitrigen content in rice field soil should ideally be monitered against a method that measures the nitrogern content.

Excessive nitrogen can be as bad as to insufficient nitrogen - on balance though, the chances of a Thai rice field having excessive nitrogen are I think rather slim knowing just how tightly Thai rice farmers are squeezed when it comes to spending money on fertilser i.e. you'd do well to try out rotating S/hemp for 2 or 3 growings before having to worry about excessive nitrogen in the soil.

Tim

In 2 months or so they will start harvesting the rice around here. After that, the land will not be used for a few months.

Any ideas if anything useful can be done (short term) with the land that will not damage the soil for the next rice crop? How do others deal with it?

Cnxpat,

There are two ways that I can interpret your question: 1. Is there some crop which I can harvest and sell...and 2. Is there some way I can improve the soil.

I'm going to address #2, what can be done to improve the soil. In the dry season there isn't much that can be done without irrigation but there is one option for soil improvement that I am working on implementing up here in the north...growing sunn hemp as a green manure crop.

Sunn hemp (no relationship to true hemp or ganja) is a fast growing legume that is efficient in taking nitrogen from the air and incorporating it into its tissues and the soil. Sunn hemp is not a good host for nematodes (small soil organisms that damage many crops...rice included) and growing sunn hemp suppresses nematode numbers.....some sources say that there is some active agent produced by the sunn hemp that does this and other sources say that by simply not offering a habitat for nematodes there numbers dwindle....regardless...this is seen as a benefit and part of an integrated pest management approach to nematode control.

The big advantage for sunn hemp (they say) is that if you plant it in wet soil it will germinate and grow enough to fix nitrogen even if there is no rain and no irrigation. This seems like it would be a good thing for Isaan with its long dry spells. They say that if you plant it in wet soil it will grow fine all the way until blooming starts and if you irrigate at that time (about 60 days after planting) then no further water is needed for development and maturation of seed.

Another use for sunn hemp is its ability to inhibit weed growth when it is broadcast thickly due to the thick canopy which keeps light from reaching the lower story of weeds. I'm experimenting with using it in my garden whenever a small section is waiting for the next crop to be planted to keep weed growth down and to enrich the soil at the same time.

The gov't gave out some free sunn hemp seeds last year and I got some (5 kg)....I've been learning how to grow them (its very easy really....its just that I'm inexperienced in field cropping) and have planted both for seed production and as a green manure. Right now I'm gearing up to try to raise a bunch of seed (100 kg or more).

Anyway...if you ask around you can probably find some seed there....I get all my info about sunn hemp off of the internet...if there is any interest we can discuss.

Chownah

PUNSTEDT

Negative – the flow meter is an optional xtra. Anything

Between Baht885 – 945 (K) is about right for the 448 in Thailand.

…… and if you are contracting, adding a GPS may be an option – there can never be any argument about how many rai you have harvested ( “the satellite doesn’t lie”).

There is little regulation by manufacturers in Thailand over dealer retail pricing – they leave dealers to set their own pricing – hence there are always “promotions” going on and “xtras” been offered.

The SU - Special Utility– anything around Baht 560 – 615 (K) is about right.

If you want the parts for dual pto speed and large front rims – I can offer both later if the dealer can’t/does not want to offer them to you. I think he is trying to move stock that has been sitting on his show room floor for sometime (hence the promotional extras.). If you send me the VIN I can check on Kubota’s dealer database to see when it was made and imported – if you wish.

RDC

M5000’s are much the same price up here – and its much the same across Thailand – except right down south, where there are a lot of “grey market” examples brought in from Malaysia – far more Kubota tractors than other makes – Kubota been the big tractor name in Malaysia, and can be as much as 20% cheaper!! (yup, that much).

They really are a well built product – solid and with top class engines & drive train – you’ll never break an M series drive-train.

There is a 4 pot machine up here (in a Loei delearship) with 2034 hrs – just over Bht 400K – dual pto and big front rims (so its been used in a paddy field. Back tires are about 60% and fronts are about 75%. ROP.

Adding a dual pto and converting the drive train ratio for smaller front wheels is down for Baht 43K and 79K respectively. Changing the pto from 540 to 1000 or from 1000 to 540 is about Baht32K. Which is best – 1000rpm is always more versatile (and it’s a lot easier and cheaper to reduce rpms with v-belts than it is to increase).

The difference between Thai and Jap/imported rice harvesting machines:

The local machines are by and large copies of the imported machines – an effort to beat the costs of imported machines. They tend to be heavier, less reliable and of poorer quality components, and in the long run cost more to maintain and run.

But – they have one advantage which contractors find attractive: you’ll always be able to get parts for a local made machine and get it up and running the same day – and from a daily cash flow perspective Thai contractors always find it easier to accommodate regular small maintenance costs than occasional high maintenance costs (even if the regular small costs add up to more than the occasional high maintenance costs).

I know guys up here who have added auto-lube systems to there Thai made harvesters – which have turned them into machines as reliable in the long run as the Jap imports.

Tim

PNUSTEDT

Just for my own personal curiosity, do you mind if I ask some questions - and make some suggestions.

448T

Sounds like you might be offering a contractual harvesting service - did you specify a flow meter on the 448T? In any event - you have a good machine, make sure the driver maintains it, and it'll give you little to no trouble

M5000

a) Which M5000 series model do you have - 4cylinder or 5 cylinder block (both excellent)

Are you aware that you can get dual speed rear pto output stub config i.e. 540rpm & 1000rpm (if not, and if there is still time to specify that, I suggest you ask for that option) -doubles the range of powered implements that you can choose from.

c) Transmission - the M series (from 5000 thru 9000) come with several transmission types - I won't bore you with all the detail, but if you are going to be using it a lot in rice paddies I suggest you to specify equal ratio transmission output for front and back wheel drives i.e. this will allow you to use the same size wheel rim setup on the front as is on the back - see picture below - the pic on the top is okay, no prob's, the pic on the bottom - great setup for rice paddy work. In any event the M series are in my opinion Rolls Royce quality tractors

I wish you all the best.

Tim

PNUSTEDT

Yes - I am an authorised service agent for both Yanmar and Kubota - and stock spare parts for both makes - and more specifically the products you are talking about.

First question: - which model do you have, and look at the VIN data plate, is yours a CKD/N (complete knockdown kit) from the Yanmar plant in China and put together in Thailand, or is your from Japan.

Generally both are great products, but a few points to pay attention to in the first few weeks/month or so, of use.

- watch the bearing seals (for lubrication leaking through)

- watch all belt tensions (particularly units assembled in Thailand from Chnese kits - the belt tensions are often not setup correctly - quite abit of slipping and undue wear - not serious, but keep an eye on it)

- Tracks - this is where you can quickly run into high maintenance cost if things go wrong: check track tensions. Clean all dirt and stones out from the tracks and the rollers after use each time - and DO NOT DO NOT use a jet power sprayer to clean the track assemblies - it will damage the seals on the drive hubs -which will cost you a rather rather amount to repair - the single most expensive components on the combine after the engine.

....... and last but not least, make sure whoever has the responsibility to operate the machine follows the maintenance procedures religously.

The most common cause of downtime in Thailand on these units is damage caused by:

a) low oil/hydraulic fluid levels and the use of just any old hydrualic fluid on hand - insist on the correct grade been used, and each time it requires topping up find out why i.e. check the filters - and

DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT use "counterfeit filter elements" - pay the full price for the genuine articals, and just in case you don't know - the fact that a filter is branded and boxed up to look like genuine is no garuntee that it is genuine. Order a couple of spare filters with your combine - they will be genuine. The way to check "dodgey" filters is they inevatibly will have spelling errors in the the graphics printed on them, or on the boxes they come in - 99% of the time there will be a spelling or typo error of some sort. I can't emphasize enough the importance of making sure you do not run your combine with counterfeit hydraulic/oil filters.

Other problems leading to down time -

c) not cleaning out the sieves after use each day and not lubricating the sieve mechanism as per the maintenance schedule.

Otherwise, happy harvesting.

The M5000 4WD - I have a container leaving Japan 28 - there is space for a 5000 in that, and I have one leaving Amsterdam next week - into which I can put a 5000 as well. I am off to Holland tonight to finalise shipping on a container, so if you are seriously interested I can probaberly pick one up there for you and get it into the container - more than likely a low hour good condition 2nd hand one.

Baler - I have none myself but can put you in touch with the right people/companies in Thailand.

If my M5000 "solution" apeals to you - drop me a PM - and we can take the matter further. The idea would be to have the M5000 broken down into its main parts (i.e. axle trumpets, engine, rear case, wheels, and bolt on parts/accesseries. It's then put into a 30ft container with 2 - 10 other broken down tractors adn they all come into the country as spare parts (which is essentially how every tractor brought into Thailand is brought in. Get the container into the workshop/yard, take all the parts out and re-assemble. Much cheaper than importing complete units.

Now, having made an effort to sell myself - I am quite happy to send you a brochure for the M5000 and a number of bailers, if you PM your postal address to me.

Let me know either way - oh, and send me your phone number so I can give you a ring.

By the way I will be meeting up with some other forum members in Europe on Thursday and Friday - will be back in Loei on Sunday afteroon.

Tim

Anyone have any experience with the Yanmar combine harvester? Would be interested to compare notes as I've just ordered one and take delivery in a couple of weeks.

Also need a tractor and baler. I like the Kubota M5000 4WD but I'm having difficulty getting baler specs./brochure out of the dealer - anyone know much about them?

Could that be for dried chilli powder (per kg?) as opposed to fresh market chillie?

Tim

I went to the price link to see why the farm price for chilli was so high. The chilli they quote data for is called prik yai which means big chilli and neither my wife nor I know exactly what variety this might be. We raised a few chilli plants last year and sold the chillis in the 5baht to 10baht range which my wife says is typical....the variety we grew is called prik noom and is a common variety grown around here. My wife says she can't imagine paying 60 baht for chillies when buying them retail at the market...much less selling them wholesale at that price....

ALLBLACK

I have sent you a PM message to your message box attached to this forum - it should "pop-up" as soon as you open up this webpage. perhaps best for the questions I have asked.

Regards

Tim

Allblack

Sorry to sound harsh – and please correct me if I am wrong – but something doesn’t add up here.

You are hoping have a animal breeding project operational in March 2007 – and it’s now September 2006, and you are only now looking for animal feed suppliers in the Chang Rai region!!

By this stage you would have submitted your business plan to the BOI and, they have approved (?), and that means you have your chosen the land (Zone 3 would that be?) and the infrastructure is in place (or is been built)…….and I could ask nearly a 100 other questions that would be applicable by this stage (i.e. by the stage that the decision to be operational by next March would imply).

……….. and the most important question – just why have you chosen to go down the BOI route?

The question you are asking is not inline with what I would expect to still be a remaining issue to be resolved for any livestock project, if the plan is to be up and running in March next year – let alone one been set up under BOI rules & regs (and operating and there rules & regs in theory is one thing, but in practise is another!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).

But I could be wrong – and please do correct me if I am.

Anyway to answer your question – the companies I suggest you contact are (and I am presuming you are looking for bulk purchase):

Thai Feed Mills

48 Moo8

Buddamonthon Soi 4

Sampran

Nakornpathom

73220

Thailand

Tel: 02 - 814 3480

Fax: 02 – 429 2811

Website: www.directory.thailand.net/tfm/

They do not manufacture up North, but their distribution network is good and they will custom mix for end users – subject to quantity (around 10 metic ton or more) and will of course debunk to your own silo. Their pricing is very competitive.

Lee Pattana Company

28th Flr

Wall Street Tower

33/137 Surawong Rd.,

Bangrak

Bangkok 10500 Thailand

Tel 02 - 632 7300

Fax 02 – 236 7751

Website: www.leepattana.com

Again, no Northern mill, but they distribute nationwide, will custom mix and deliver, are one of the major pig-food suppliers – but do cattle feed as well. My contact here is Khun Manop Kaoruang on the above number Ext 407 or email him on [email protected]

Charoen Pokhand Feedmills (known in Thailand as CP Gropu)

CP Tower

313 Silom Road

Bangrak

Bangkok

Tel: 02 – 2310231 (and any last 2 digits up till 50)

The big name in Thailand on livestock feed and have mills all over the place. Speak to Khun Phong Visedpaitoon

P Charoen Phan Feedmills

69 / 6 -13 Suksawad Road

Ratburana

Bangkok

Tel 02 – 4630040

A small company, but that will make them more inclined to be willing to offer you a customised product at a more competative price. Contact a guy called Khun Prasit Sirimongkolkasem (speaks English well) – remember in Tahiland L’s are pronounced as “N” – so ask for SirimongkoNkasem (use the L and a good chance the sec. wont know who you’re talking about).

Singeng Sawankaloke Company

620 / 76 – 78 Sathupradit Road

Yannawa

Bangkok

Tel 02 – 294 63 29, 2946330 and 294 6331

Fax 02 – 294 6332

Another small company – Thai Chinese owned, but a great reputation for good quality. Sorry – I don’ have a contact name for these guys.

Star Feedmills

29/8

3 Phetkasem Road

Bangkok

Tel 02 – 421 1025-6, 02 – 2580030

I know nothing about these guys – just have a contact name, Khun Pongthep Chiarayanont.

Thai Silp Cattle Feed Company

1584 / 67 – 71

Samrong Centre

Sukhumvit Road

Samrong Nua

Samut Prakan

Tel 02 – 3932178-9, 02 – 3931956 – 7

Big up North –sepak to Khun Pichai Unopas

The the big big boys are, last but not least:

Cargill Siam Ltd.

18th Floor, Sindhorn Tower III

130-132 Wireless Road, Lumpini

Patumwan, Bangkok 10330

Thailand

Tel 02-263 2929

Fax 02-263 2940

…… and as can be expected, they are proberbly the most expensive feed manufacturers but can and do offer the biggest range of feed products.

As you can see most of these are BKK based, but they have mills all over the country and do distribute up North.

I wish you all the best and if there is anything you want to know - just ask, there is a wealth of info on this forum from many contirbutors.

Tim

I was not sure just how dry it was - you said nothing about it been brittle, which says a lot about how just how dry it is...... which was what I was trying to establish before I offered any advise.

I'll let others carry on with this one.....

back to what I said first time round - nope, not much mileage in that

Is this sweet corn/normal - as in picked when the maize stalk is still green, or are we talking about a dried and withered out maize plant from which the dried cobs are picked? - if its a dried out (brown and brittle) maize stalk, then this is not going to work - must have greeness to it and the stalk must still have mositure (some) in it.

The dried brittle stuff, this opening line I thought was something of a give away

Around here they sell the maize when it's dried, this leaves a dried and withered stalk. Can this be somehow utilised as cow food ?

the idea was that although it might not be very good there is loads of the stuff around for free and was there any way to improve it into a viable feed.

Yea the fang mak silos could be used for silage not prob, just have to take most of the front wall out (about 70 cm high)to get tractor accsess. If I can grow enough next year the three of them full will go a long way to aliviating my dry season deficite

Hang on - I know this sounds stupid after all you have written, but I want to make sure I am on the right track here......

Is this sweet corn/normal - as in picked when the maize stalk is still green, or are we talking about a dried and withered out maize plant from which the dried cobs are picked? - if its a dried out (brown and brittle) maize stalk, then this is not going to work - must have greeness to it and the stalk must still have mositure (some) in it.

I'll get down to the nitty gritty detail (chop size, water, additive ratio and so on.... ) as soon as you have cleared this up.

Personally I would not add the cassava chips at this stage - I'd mix them in just before feeding, but I'll get back to the whys & wherefor's next posting.

Sounds like you have perfect storage facilities.

As a base for silage - nope, little mileage I would think - as it is.

What is left out from the "question" is just how long this maize been leftover, before you get hold of it? Lets assume its more than 1 day, and also, that it has not been "chipped" (chopped up).

The problem then is a) its dried out so much that it is going to burn off within a couple weeks of been clamped - you'll wake up one morning and find smoke coming from the silage clamp, and , its not chipped - which means you can't add water - it will run off and accumulate at the base of the clamp.

As you know, and do not need to be told in this case RDC, this is not about an optimiun silage - this is about a comprise i.e. finding a way to utilise what is avalible - so the benefit is going to lie in been able to offset the cost of cassava as an additive in the free avaliability of the maize waste.

I can see a possible solution - subject to the following:

a) Possible to get this maize leftover as soon as it is harvested i.e. find out where it comes from and go and have a word with farmer. Get it the same day it is cut down, and chip it the same day - a chipper is easy to make (can be made for Bht 5k - 10K - and I can send you plans on how to make one) - portable and capable of processing about 1.5ton and hour.

Even if you can't get the maize waste in sufficent quantity untill say the next day, you're still fine I think - as, if you have invested in a chipper, the option of adding a water/molasses/acid mix is now possible and will address the lost moisture.

So the problem now is not one of feed/silage avaibility, but one of logistics and a bit off added work in preparing the stuff to be stored.

If you can get into this position so to speak, you will have a viable silage base crop - and may well find the added labour at the time, is recovered by way of reduced feedcosts during the dry season.

Tim

Cheers Chownah, I think they are talking about the whole plant, but it's just dried out a bit. I'm talking about the leftover stalk and leaves.

GUYSHOWN

Mechanical cut &carry - no, not for hay but for fresh feed and silage. Thats is how th majority of people do it in Thailand but there is no reason why it can't be used for haylage - except that the cut & carry would not take place daily, but just once when the whole field is ready to be cut.

Lots of talk on this forum about different breeds and mixes - and arguments for and against different breeds. The best breed is the breed (mix or purebred - makes no differance) that fits in with your circumstances and situation best i.e. gives you the best margin and best return. It can be anything in Thailand. Successful dairy and beef farming in Thailand is more about this approach (as described above) versus going out and looking for the best breed (in the conventional sense of the argument). I have cows that look good on paper but don't hold a candle to some which I have that look bad on paper.

Alfalfa - generaly not a promoted or extensively used forage crop in Thailand. As you know coming form a livestock background in the USA (where alfalfa is used extensively), it needs a well drained soil and will not tolerate saturated ground, so come rainy season in Thailand - that wil lbe th eend of your crop, and you will have to replant the following year.

It is also very suspectible fungus, and to insects alfalfa is what honey is to bees.

It can be grown, but a glance at the management required against the background of conditions in Thailand (i.e. rainfall pattern, soil types, insect populations, fertilaser requirements ect ect....) versus what can be achieved/obtained with other forage type crops, quickly shows Alfalfa ranking at far end of the "best options for Thai conditons" chart.

Growing a forage crop in rubber plantations is practised in Thailand until that is, the rubber tree canopy becomes suffciently dense to cut off the sunlight (I guess around 4 - 5 years - beleive me, some rubber plantations can get so dark that harvesting with headlamps in daytime is not unusual).

But how alfalfa would fit in with a rubber tree crop - I just don't know (I know nothing about rubber trees and how there water/soil requirment would fit in with that required by alfalfa).

Alfalfa - would not be on my list of options as aforage crop - fresh or ensiled. Its my opinion that better alternatives exist for conditions in Thailand.

Tim

ISSANGEORGE

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh - you haven't been reading the fine print......no, the buckets are not in the ground. They just sit on the surface, or you can put a couple of stones underneath each bucket.

Using them in a rubber field - thats a good idea, rubber tree plantations are often "dual cropped" with some or other crop in the early stages - you should get about 18 months production (maybe 24) - and water them the same time you water the rubber trees.

Makua plants can grow to about 1.8meters high with a folage diameter of 2 - 2.5m diameter - so bare that mind with people walking around them everyday after 3 - 4months (when they start producing makua).

Tim

CNXPAT

Okay - I have attached some pages/diagrams here for you - courtesy of my youngster (good english writing practise for her).

Nope - don't worry about "owing" anything - just make a success of it, and put the effort into doing it properly to start with - you'll reap the reward later in maakua production.

You have a bit of capital outlay here - so you may even wish to start with 1/2 a rai - and then scale up afterwards. Thats fine, the layout is for a 40m x 40m filed (i.e. 1rai = 1600sqaure meters).

So long as you keep the 1.5m x 1.5m spacing between rows and plants, you can go ahead and layout any length and breadth you wish.

Oh yes, and there is enough info here for you to work out if your pump is okay for the job (I'm sure it is - so long as the engine is 3hp or more it should be fine - no harm if it's more, just run the engine slower.

To check how much the drippers are delivering get a 0.5 litre bottle and see how long it takes to fill up - and then adjust the engine rpm accordingly. You shouldn't get more than about 10-15% differance in flow rate from the dripper closest to the pump and the dripper furthest from the pump - as they self regulate (more or less).

I use Naan drippers - so I know they work properly and last - if for some reason you can't get Naan drippers, get any other 8litre per hour dripper (and if its 6 liter or 10 liter per hour - just adjust pump speed accordinglly - but don't exceed th epump delivery volume divided by the amount of drippers - 10 liter per hour maybe to much for the pump.

You may want to check out the Naan website (www. naandan..... something or other).

As for other fittings - dont worry about brand name - just get whats avalible (i.e. tubing ect ect) - but do try to get the Naan drippers - they last for ever.

Rmemebr what I said: take the pump delivery volume per hour and divide it by the number of drippers. If 8 liter per hour is too much, no prob's just select 6 liter per hour drippers

Good luck get back to me if you have questions.

Tim

CNXPAT

No prob’s – after the cows are milked and morning chores are done I’ll sit down with “junior” (my youngest kid) and we’ll get here to draw some pic’s for you – she love’s doing that. While she’s at it I’ll put together some info on exactlt what tubing and drippers you (manufacturer name, product code ect ect…. it’s all avalible in Thailand off the shelf – worst case scenario is you’ll have to phone the distributor to find out where your nearest stockist is in your area).

Do me favour though please – somewhere on your pump will be a sticker that tells you hour many liters per hour and at what engine/pump rpm or pressure. I need that info. The the pump is so old that that sticker is no longer there – then I need to know the Hunda engine type/model number and the pump that is attached to it – pump type and/or model number. In both cases it will be stamped somewhere on the metal work of both the metal and the engine. From that we can work out exactly wht the pump is capable of.

Plasticiser/UV inhibator – put it this way: if the container is flexible and you can bend it without it fracturing/splitting or crack through, then for the time been that will be fine for your f 1st rai – assuming that it is the way you are going to start off (which if you can – go for it, nothing to loose).

No Makua growing around you – that sounds good – won’t take long for news to get round that you’re the local Makua man.

Check back late today – I’ll get the above done later this morning.

Tim

There is an official Ducati dealer in Bangkok.

Ducatisti Co. Ltd.

482 Soi Thonglor Sukhumvit Rd.

Klongton Nua, Wattana, Krung Thep Maha Nakhon [bangkok], Thailand

Tel.: +66 2 3818811 - 3818812

Fax: +66 2 3818810

Website: www.ducatisti.co.th - (but this webiste never works!)

He was in business in 2005, so I presume he's still in business.

He tried to tell me that you are not allowed to import 2nd hand Ducati's (or any 2nd hand bike into Thailand) - still have his email. That PXXXXD me off big time, so I done just that: I imported mine (an old 750SS, 1974) - then took it round to him to ask if he could service it - and to to remind him what he had told me!!

But theres something odd here - the Thai guy who runs Ducatisti Co (Thailand) was was selling some 999R's (XEROX paintwork - 2004 models) in early 2005 for about Baht 1.5million - yup, fully legal and genuine but not sure if that included the Baht 70K odd for registration. So with that in mind , Baht 1.3million (or even Baht 995K) would seem a little high for a 2nd hand 998S with 18 000km on the clock.

The other way of looking at it as that the person who borught that 998S into Thailand would have been lumbered with a very high import duty/tax rate - higher than what a dealer would have had to pay to bring the 999R into Thailand (because the dealer buys the bike from Ducati at about 30% less than what the public buys the same Ducati for) -so the guy who bought that 998S into Thailand has had to pay a total I would think is somewhat more than the dealer would have paid to get the 999R into Thailand.

If you look at it like that, then the 998S is not overpriced (despite the high mileage) - unless of course this 998S came from that same dealer originally in 2004!

The only way I think you "beat" the system so to speak - legally - is to strip the bike down at home, to literally "bits and pieces" and then bring it in/get it sent over by post, over time as "spare parts", - half a crank case today, a few gears in a few weeks time, the tank, the wheel rims, the frame ect ect..... all over a few months (will cost in fair bit in postage costs) - and then re-assemble it and take it off to get registered.

You will still get lumbered with the registration cost, but you'll have got away with the bike import duties.

Someone please correct me if the above statement is incorrect.

Tim

GUYSHOWN

On cultivated/maintained pasture you can maintain a cow and 2 calves (possibly 3), or 2 cows and 1 calf

On open land (i.e. not cultivated or maintained) - hard to say, because untill one sees what is growing its impossible to tell what it would support - but on average green growth, and assuming you were not worried about milk yield, then 1 cow & 1 calf, and maybe - just maybe 2 cows - so long as their was rain to promote re-growth.

But in dry season on an open field - you wouldn't be able to maintain 1 cow - it would quickly tear out what was there, and with no regrowth would run out of food within a couple weeks.

Tim

Thanks for the pics Cheeky,

Anyone know if Pla Yeesok is good to eat ?

If got a few in my pond, cant catch the buggers tho'.

Not first on the list of fresh water fish to eat - lots of bones, flesh is coarse and have tough scales - wouldn't be my first choice, but there again, served with the skin off and fillited with enough chilly or fresh lemon, I find one freshwater fish is as good as the next (wouldn't be able to tell what fish it was).

Pla Doog - they are nice.

Fair enough......

I plunge dip all my cattle on a regular basis - with Amitraze and Tixafly - that deals with the ticks - and most other bug pests..... takes about an hour to do the whole lot and costs less than Bht1k - efficient.

Tim

CHOWNAH / CNXPAT.............always forget something don't I.....

HOLES - yes, best & quickest way to make holes is to take a piece of re-bar or similar (anything from 1/4" - 1" diameter), heat it up on the old gas cooker flame and stick about a dozen holes at the bottom of the container (much quicker than using a drill) - through the sides about 1/2" from the base - NOT THROUGH THE BASE (i.e. through the sides). Piercing the container thru the side just above the base is much better for drainage.

Plasticiser/UV inhibitor - either is fine, but in my experiance (and have both types), I have found that the extra cost for containers sold specifically described as UV protected pushes the price up quite significantly - while, for this size/volume, in practise you'll find that "plasticised pails are just as long lasting.

The distinction I was trying to make was that you get containers and you containers i.e. some if you try and bend them will reach a deformation point and then just "shatter" or crack, whereas others, you can stand on, bend them - whatever, and they just deform. As a rule, the lighter the pigment in the plastic, the longer it will last - and if it's not white (which most are in any case) - invest in a 20 litre of the cheapest whitewash emulsion you can get form the hardware store, and whitewash or the containers - that will protect them from the sunlight good & proper for 2 or 3 years.

Tim