Maizefarmer

Well well - starting to look like there may be more than a kernel of truth to the stories that he loaded up at some or other plane with more personal goods that would be need for the UN General meeting........

As for it been suticases of cash - mmm not sure about that.

I was in Holland 2 weeks ago to buy agrcultuarl equipment and the problems that caused me when I went to the bank to do the deal in cash - which was about Euro 150K - fits in a briefcase, so quite what Mr T thinks he can do with case loads of cash, I dont quite know. He has 2 choices - keep it under his bed or put it into the banking system, and a suitcase(s!) of cash going into any bank account nowadays leaves a paper trail and attracts a lot of questions.

Back to the repeated stories about the earnings from the sale of Shin Corp. ShinCorp was owned by Ample Rich (excuse the pun but thatwas the companies name) which was BVI registered. The buyer of Shin Corp (Tamasek Holdings) was also outside of Thailand. That deal took place "off-shore" and was ahndled by an off-shore company (Jardine Fleming in HK). i.e. the money that exchanged hands for that deal never came to Thailand, and quite frankly, if there is any reason why Mr T had packed his bags before hand (i.e. the move was planned before he flew off) I can only imagine that it was a case of "I've made my money - its out of the clutches of Thai authorities - I'm not going to survive much longer - might as well go now" - which is what he's done.

I wouldn't care much about loosing the Merc 500SL or the Bhat 50million house in Bangkok, if I had $2billion elswhere - would you.

The plane load(s) of personal goods is startiung to look a lot more sensible now......

Tim

All depends - if you're thinking of keeping hives - fine, but you will not find them anywhere near as productive as they are in Europe.

I have 12 Langstroth hives, and together I am lucky to get as much honey from them per year as a bee keeper will get from 3 hives in Europe. Dont ask me why - I havent got clue, but know that that is pretty much the case with all bee keepers in Thailand - low production rates.

Your big risk is ants - they will destroy a hive.

God only knows how clever an ant is - they are mean't to be pretty simply insects, but boy are they good at finding ways into bee hives. Then you have the usual problems with wasps and other pests, but no more so than anywhere else - ants will be your big problem.

As for the wild asian honey bee - that huge yellow bee that can get between 3cm - 4cm long and forms a huge single honey comb under the branch of trees - well, all I can say is good luck. They are extremely agressive - and cannot be handled like bee keepers handle hive bees. Great honey, but find a local who has experiance dealing with them otherwise you run the risk of getting seriously beaten up - they are really very different from hive bees and not to be messed with.

Two interesting things about this Asian honey bee - they come back to the same tree season after season, and studies have confirmed swarms from the North East of Thailand migrate as far as Malaysia, and then return to the same tree in North Eastern Thailand 2 or 3 years later. Just how do they do it, because the bees that comprised the swarm in Thailand before it left would have all been replaced by the time the swarm then left Malaysia a couple years later - just how do they pass on to the next generation not only where to go back to but also which tree??

Oh - and they won't stay in a hive - have tried - went so far as to put the queen in a cage - they built enough cone to breed a new one, feed it royal jelly and then when she hatched, pushed off with her abandoing the old one. So forget it, they cant be hived.

Then you also get swarms of stingless bees - they're quite common. Its a very small bee - smaller than a fly, makes very small cone out in the open (quite often find them on fences under trees) but commercially they have little if any value.

You'd think with the flora diversity we have here in Thailand and the climate we have, bee keeping would be a big industry. It isn't, and there arnet many comercial honey producers - most in the Chang Mai area - check out

www.sayanhoneyfarm.com

Tim

Good luck

All this comment about Mr T having hired cargo planes to cart out a load of his personal belongings

mmmmmm...... - take the statement one step back;

Thaksin was alledgedly only out the country for the UN annual General Yak Yak - which he attends every year around this time, so this journey had been on his travel intinary for a long time - beginning of this year at least, if not having been penciled in after last years UN General meeting.

If indeed the above turns out to be true it would imply he knew what was coming - well before it actually happened, and the problem with this is, that if that is the case he would have sacked Gen Sondthi , not by way of a statement from New York, but before he left Thailand. In fact I find it difficult to beleive he would have actually gone to the UN General Meeting at all if he knew this was coming.

Also, I think the press would have picked up on this (and I read the Thai papers everyday - nothing has been said), and I doubt Gen Sonthi & Co. would allow cargo planes to load up Mr T's goods all in the space of a few hours (or a day or so) and leave unfettered. At the very least they would have gone through everything with a fine toothcomb looking for large amounts of cash.

However - strange things happen and it may well turn out at some point in the not to distant future that Thaksin's departure and stepping down was something that was planned with all concerned before he left - in which case Sonthi would have been only to happy to see him take his goods if that mean't he wouldn't be coming back. Still thats a bit odd - because theres a big diff between a plane load of personal household goods been let go, and the absence of a man who you wish to speak to about alledged corruption and tax due on Bht 2billion.

But something else here is odd - Thaksin had his ear to the ground. If there was ever a Thai PM who monitored what others were saying or doing it was Thaksin. hel_l the guy ran communications in Thailand, you could say nothing on a phone without him knowing if you were on his list of people to watch (and be sure - all the guys running the show now were well known for been on the other side of the fence (i.e. they couldn't sneeze without Mr T been told) - and we are lead to understand he never even smelt a rat, he went off to the other side of the world to a meeting he had no need to attend other than out of courtesy, at a time when he knew the heat was on and it would provide an oppurtunity for his opponants to pul the rug out from under his feet.

May be the cargo plane story will turn out to be true and well planned - with the knowledge and help of conspirators.

I know, I know - this is all very conspiratorial...............but as somone else said in one of their postings on the forum, when you've been here long enough you will learn that if someone says "Good Morning", you may just as well go outside to check the sun has risen before replying!

Tim

Tim

I think what would be helpful is if someone (if anyone does know - and I certainly don't) could comment on the "inputs versus outputs"

No eucalyptus doe not require loads of water - it has a very efficient root system (just bare that in mind - wil lcome back to it in a moment), but its growth rate and yield will benefit from irrigation (an added input).

And yes - they doe strip the soil - called "soil mining" - they take everything out of the soil, and again, their growth rate and yield will benfit from fertiuliser application (another input).

Come harvest time, you need to calculate what you are going to get versus how much you have spent. Thats the first part of the equation. In Thailand, I havent got a clue how you would work that out because I dont know what fertilsier you would use and how much you would have to apply, or how often. But work it out you must - because the 2nd part of the equation involves of the cost of getting that land back into a condition that it can be used for another wood harvest 5 years down the line, or indeed for some other crop.

And just how much it wil cost you to get back into good condition is going to be influenced by 2 things:

a) how much fertiulser you applied while growing the crop

hom much you now have to put back in

.................. and one other thing - if you intend to use the land for someother crop - you now have to get the stumps out the ground - which is labour and fuel.

I think you need to take that Baht 1050 per ton and offset it aginst all your costs over 5 years before you can work out just how much you are going to land up with. And lastly, like all crops, the scale has a significant effect on the earnings i.e. - make sure the figures you use to estimate your costs are figures based on at least roughly the same area of land that you intend to grow on (both in terms of location and qauntity) - because the costs will vary according to location and size of the plantation - no good using cost figures for a 10 or 20 rai plot that were derived from a 1000 rai plantation - that would mess up your figures right from the start.

Good luck - and if you do get a chance to get it all worked out figure wise, please do share your findings.

And lastly - the debate regards just how bad they are for the soil: - they have a long term very difficult to reverse effect on soil. They WILL reduce crop yields of anything planted after them - unless you rectify the soil mining effect that THEY do have on soil. And That I am afraid is where I think the economics of the whole venture start to come apart - i.e. the cost of getting the soil back to a usable condition after the tree has been harvested.

Tim

And do you want to wait 5 years?

If you are into HYDROPONICS – check out:

http://en.bangsaiagro.com/

- excellent rang of equipment, seeds, chemicals, fertilisers and related products and also an English website.

Or:

http://www.hydrowork.net/

Or:

http://www.thaimeehydrofarm.com/

- good info for the small farmer or DIY’er

Excelent MF thanks a lot.

You're welcome - and if anyone has a particular fertilizer type requirement - drop me an email and I'll save you the time of having to phone them all up.

Secondly - I am hoping to start feedstock milling on a commercial basis as from November 3rd onwards. For guys that have livestock and want concentrates or other other milled feeds for livestock - drop me a PM. I think I can pull this off at around 30-40% cheaper than the commercial manufacturers on a percentage by percentage basis.

I am in a position to get a contract from an up and coming BOI fish processor to take off them all their waste - yup, so it will all be high-bypass type protein feed. Still earlier stages - but I mill all my own feeds and concentrates so have the hardware - just need an excuse to expand. Blending will be done by a professional animal nutritionist (i.e. the missus - who is responsible for the feed mix for my animals).

Doesn't matter what the quanity it is - lots of small orders all add up to a big run. Delivery anywher in Thailand will be possible through the existing daily interprovincial truck service - so even if you are in Phuket or Kanchanaburi I think I still beat your local feed prices by around 30%.

Drop me a PM if interested - the more the better.

Tim

Does anyone know what the basis to Mr T'srelationship is with Al-Fayad - or this just another of Thai Insider.com's waffle stories.

Tim

ThaiSpy - you're just the man to deal with Mr T

PS - do you do much IP work?

Tim

Debt Collection and Property Recovery

If someone owes you money we can often be of some help. The most common scenario is one in which a local merchant or vendor has entered into a contract with you but has not kept up their end of the deal. We can locate them, remind them of their obligations and seek to recover what is owed to you. We will not use violent methods; we win out by tact and persistence.

Huge earnings on this one - contact the opposition - they paid UK invetsigators handsomely earlier this year (makes me wonder just how long ago this coup was actually planned).

Tim

Property recovery is a more vague area under Thai law and frequently requires court filings to be made. If so we'll refer you to a qualified attorney who may work on your behalf. We won't undertake actions which may leave us or you liable to charges of theft.

How about Taksin's assets in the British Virgin Islands? Can the Military

Junta seize those assets? What is his total asset value in Thailand?

Haaa - try asking the BVI for co-operation in anything - it aint easy - they are very reticent about assisting in any case.

Take Roman Abramovich for example - a UK company has been chasing his BVI asset structure for years and has made little progress. The problem in the BVI is demonstrating who the ultimate owner of any registerd entity is - the BVI is so attractive because you can own something "there" or register it "there" - but your name will be no wher on the documentation - its all done through nominees.

Very difficult.

Tim

THAI FERTILIZER MANUFACTURERS AND SUPPLIERS

Asia Agro Tech Co., Ltd. (AAT)

Marketing Department

No. 2, Moo 3, Lamsai Subdistrict

Wangnoi District

Pranakorn Sri Ayudha 13170

Tel: +66 035 215260-1 Fax: +66 035 215260

Web: organic-fertilizer.gq.nu/

Email: [email protected]

I believe these guys make only granular organic fertiliser

Asia Chemical Fertilizer Industry Co. Ltd.

Klong 2, Rangsit-Nakorn Nayok Highway

Thanyaburi

Pathum Thani 12110

Bangkok Chemical Industries Ltd

5/8 Soi Saladaeng

Silom

Bangkok 10300

Tel: +66 2 2357325-6; 2335729 Tlx: (66) (2) 237-6515

BioAgriTech (Thailand) Co. Ltd.

43/36 Rattanatibate Rd. Bangrakyai

Bangbuathong

Nonthaburi 11110

Tel: +66 2 9859458 Fax: +66 2 9859661

Web: www.bioagritech.com Email: [email protected]

Boon Vanit International Limited (BVI)

Marketing & Sales

61/173 Soi Thaveemitra 7, Rama 9 Road

Huay-Kwang

Bangkok 10320

Tel: 66 2 2714700 Fax: 66 2 2484859

Web: www.boonvanit.com Email: [email protected]

DKT Co., Ltd.

5/33 Phahonyothin Soi 3

Phyathai

Bangkok

Tel: +66 2 272 4051-3 Fax: +66 2 2700879

Web: www.dktgypsum.com

Email: [email protected]

GCMP (Thailand) Ltd.

G.P.O. Box 1780

Bangkok 10110

Tel: +66 2 2612561-5 Fax: +66 2 2612566

Web: www.basf.de

Kemira Thai Co. Ltd.

7th floor, Metro Building

180-184 Rajawongse Road

Bangkok 10100

Tel: +66 2 2263871 Fax: +66 2 2245676 Tlx: 82350

Web: www.kemira.com

National Fertilizer Public Co. Ltd. (NFC)

17th-19th Floor, Lao Peng Nguan Building 1

333 Vipavadi-Rangsit Road, Chatuchak District

Bangkok 10900

Tel: +66 2 6188100 Fax: +66 2 6188200 Tlx: 20155 NAFERCO TH

Email: [email protected]

Sahapan Agricultural Extension Co. Ltd.

54 Gor Bang-chan Industrial Estate

Sukapibal 2 Road, Minburi

Bangkok

Sebring Co., Ltd.

1866 Patanakarn Road

Suanluang

Bangkok 10250

Thailand

Tel: +66 1 8112557 Fax: +66 2 7204440

Email: [email protected]

Seri Chemical and Industry Co. Ltd.

73 Chakrapetch Road

Bangkok 10200

Tel: +66 2 2224412

Siam Chemicals Co. Ltd.

11th floor Orakarn Bldg.

26/36-37 Chidlom Road, Patumwan

Bangkok 10330

Tel: +66 2 2543890-8 Tlx: 84393 SIAMKEM TH

Thai Central Chemical Public Co. Ltd.

8th Floor, Metro Building

180-184 Rajawongse Road

Bangkok 10100

Tel: +66 2 2250135 Fax: +66 2 2261263 Tlx: 82350

Web: www.tcccthai.com

Email: [email protected]

Thai Fertilizer Co. Ltd. (TFC)

39/3 Moo 3, Tambon Bo Pong

Amphoe Nakornluang

Nokornluang

Email: [email protected]

Tonpho Agriculture Co. Ltd. (TACL)

Bangsaothong, Bangphli

Samut Prakarn

Tel: +66 2 7153806 Fax: +66 2 7153806

Email: [email protected]

Ubonvan Agricultural Promotion Co. Ltd.

Marketing

1153/1 Soi Sriburapa

Klongchan, Bangkapi

Bangkok 10240

Tel: +66 2 7113682, 7349193-4, 01-6399576 Fax: +66 2 7349194

Email: [email protected]

And secondly - the money from the Shin Corp sale: was never in Thailand as Thai Baht: it was paid for by Tamesek Holdings (check spelling) and processed as USD by Jardine Fleming in Hong Kong - just like the ShinCorp shares were owned by a BVI entity.

AS to where it actually is - good question, but a Hong Kong or British Virgin Islands trust account seems quite possible (knowing how JF works with client funds).

Tim

Thaksin had asked MI5 for protection in the UK: - MI5 have nothing to do with diplomatic protection in the UK. He would have had ZERO contact with them.

There is a well outlined procedure for all visiting heads of state/royalty ect to follow if they feel their safety is an issue, and it involves talking to their appointed FO liason officer who will discuss the matter with the Met, under which SO14 falls - the section charged with protecting diplomats and foreign heads of state.

snip - Admin2

Tim

Thaksin is no longer a diplomat or a Head of State.

You dont know what you're talking about - as far as the FO is concerned Thaksin is still formely the Thai PM (I know - its a bit of a bum about face situation but thats how protocol works), and secondly, he is in the UK on a diplomatic pass/clearance - whatever eaxct word you wish to use - fact fact - and that is how it will stay untill a new PM is elected or installed - and then subject to the FO accepting that new PM (which they will).

MF, yea would be great if you have one. Once we get some input on this I'll probably make a new thread and pin it.

Thanks for that one TT

Wilco - just need a day to translate into English then will send to you.

Tim

I'm not sure if you have seen these costings for Jatropha in India, so here goes.

Note: based on a daily wage of 65 INR.

Today's rate is 1000INR = 816THB

http://www.jatrophabiodiesel.org/economics.php?_divid=menu4

Ooooooooooooops - the enemy of all domestic alternative power systems is the AC compressor. Yup, you're stuck with that - no way round it - 1Kw is a Kilo watt is a Kilo watt i.e. it makes no differance if you need it now or over a period of 1 hour or 10 hours - the gennie still needs to push out that ampaerage, so yes - its a tall order - but its not impossible.

Heres what I suggest - don't laugh - get a few car aircondition systems - the compressors of/off cars systems can be run off low hp high torque diesel engines geared down - like the Fieldmarshall Low Speed Diesel engine (the first one on there page) - perfect to run 2 or 3 car ac compressors. And if you know anything about ac systems, well the rest is simple - its all about finding a way to run the compressors cheaply - and if you can run a compressor directly off the engine (as opposed to using the engine to prduce electrictity to drive an electric motor) you will find a big big increase in effciency (i.e. energy in versus energy out - off the top of my head it wouldnt suprize me if you could cool down your room for about 25% of what it would cost you to use a conventional 220vac airconditioner).

When I first got farm going and I had just blown all my earnings for the previous 10 years on buying this land, I used car air conditioner comnpressors as milk pre coolers - and then moved them into the house as the compressors for the ac system - well, they were located outside with the copper pipes leading to an old 220Vac heat exchanger and fan. It worked just as good as a conventional 220Vac airconditoner but at less than 25% of the ac electrictity cost.

Yes I have seen the figures for Jatropha income in India. They vary quite a bit depending where you are in the world. In Thailand it works out to about Baht65rai per day - and that is before expenses - its a no brainer unless you have loads and load of land that is nogood for anything else - then possible, just possibly you may be able to earn an income from biodiesel from Jatropha - but not otherwise. Cooking oil (used) is the way to go in Thailand - there is loads of it about, so you just have to think out a practical way of putting in place a logistics system to collect that used cooking oil. Mac Donalds not on as they appear to have some or other arrangement with a 3rd party collector , but there are literally 1000's of foodcarts in every town/village who just throw it down the drain each day!

I am great one for practicality - big differance between armchair commentating and working the land - you quickly find theory seldom matches up with what actually happens when you start growing crops or feeding animals - or trying to justify making biodesiel in Thailand (against the price of commercial diesel).

Tim

Well I bet your looking here to find some, so am I

Apart from local shops and being able to sometimes order forage seed through the local DLD office I dont really know. So have anyone got any links or addreses of bulk seed distributers or fertiliser manufactures ?

Do you want another list like feed suppliers?

Tim

UDON - "gennie in jungle" - and how many Kw hour or day are u looking to generate?

Please leave my family alone, pleads Thaksin

Ousted PM seeks privacy for wife and two children still living in Bangkok

LONDON: -- Ousted Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who has taken refuge in London, appealed late on Thursday for privacy for his family, as his wife and two of their children are still in Bangkok to look after the family's many assets.

Pojaman Shinawatra has been seen in Bangkok since her husband was toppled by a military coup on Tuesday. Panthongtae, the family's eldest child, and Paetongtarn, the younger daughter, are staying with her at their Chan Song Lah residence in Bangplad, Thon Buri.

A tight-lipped Thaksin had little to say to reporters waiting outside the London apartment where he has holed up since arriving on Wednesday from New York, where he tried to stage a counter coup, according to Agence France-Presse.

Asked what his plans were, he replied simply: "Stay with my daughter, that's it" - a reference to Pinthongta, with whom he had earlier been seen near the Dorchester Hotel, haunt of the visiting rich and famous.

"I say nothing except please leave my family [alone]," he added.

It is not known why Pojaman and the two children have not flown over to London to reunite with Thaksin.

However, it is an open secret in the capital that the Shinawatra family still keeps some Bt50 billion from the sale of Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings of Singapore in Thai banks, including Siam Commercial Bank, Bangkok Bank and Thanachart Bank.

Pojaman has apparently stayed on in Bangkok to look after the family's assets in Thaksin's absence. He husband cannot return home for fear of being taken into custody by the Council for Democratic Reform under Constitutional Monarchy (CDRM), which organised the coup.

Bank of Thailand Governor MR Pridiyathorn Devakula said yesterday the central bank had not moved to freeze any assets of the Shinawatra family.

"We haven't frozen any assets because we don't have the authority to do so. And no one has ordered us to do so. We can freeze assets only when instructed by the authorities," he said.

One of the CDRM's priorities is to organise a new National Counter Corruption Commission - to which the coup-makers yesterday appointed nine members - to go after the assets of unusually rich politicians in the Thaksin government.

Pridiyathorn confirmed that the Shinawatra family's Bt50 billion in proceeds arising from the sale of Shin Corp shares remained in the country.

"I estimate that no large amount of Thai baht has been converted into overseas currencies. However, I don't know whether the money could have been packed in suitcases and taken abroad because the Immigration Bureau is responsible for this matter," he said.

On Tuesday, when the CDRM launched its coup, Pojaman hid at a safe house in the Phaholyothin area of Bangkok. After that she reportedly returned to her Chan Song Lah residence, where she was joined by Panthongtae and Paetongtarn.

There were early reports saying that Pojaman had flown to Singapore and was preparing to fly on to London to meet her husband and Pinthongta.

Paetongtarn will be taking an exam at Chulalongkorn University's Political Science Faculty on Monday. Panthongtae still lives a normal life, going to work at his How Come Company.

Police and military personnel have provided tight security for the Shinawatra family, deploying guards along Soi Charansanitwong 69, where they have their residence.

While his family is being monitored by Thai security guards, Thaksin has also recruited guards from the MI5 intelligence service in London.

According to a report on the web site www.thaiinsider.com, which is owned by the UK-based Oriental Mart Group chief executive officer Ekkeyuth Anchanbutr, Thaksin is now staying at 55 Park Lane, London W1, which belongs to his close friend, Harrods owner Mohamed Al-Fayed.

Thaksin has not gone to his own flat in the plush London suburb of Kensington, where his daughter Pinthongta lived while studying in London.

The website, which had a special reporter monitoring Thaksin's movements, said the deposed PM had asked MI5 to temporarily provide him with security. Thaksin reasoned that he had no confidence in his safety since being overthrown.

Earlier Thaksin issued a statement confirming he was bowing out of politics - to take a "deserved rest" - and calling for early elections and "national reconciliation" in his homeland.

Meanwhile, Thaksin's brother Payap Shinawatra was briefly under military custody yesterday. When Payap landed in Chiang Mai from a flight from Bangkok, he was escorted by the military and detained at a military camp. He was released shortly thereafter.

Thaksin's younger sisters - Yaowapa Wongsawat, Yaowaret Shinawatra and Yinglak Shinawatra - are believed to have fled abroad.

--The Nation 2006-09-23

Thaiinsider.com has an agenda - and its a) not nuetral nots always very accurate - I often wonder whether thats deliberate baring in mind who runs it and it's objectives.

Very little (if any) of Thaksins wealth is kep to Thailand - let alone Bangkok - ask Jardine Fleming in Hong Kong - they know all about where Mr T has his personal assets structered - and it aint in Thai Baht or in Thailand.

Thaksin had asked MI5 for protection in the UK: - MI5 have nothing to do with diplomatic protection in the UK. He would have had ZERO contact with them.

There is a well outlined procedure for all visiting heads of state/royalty ect to follow if they feel their safety is an issue, and it involves talking to their appointed FO liason officer who will discuss the matter with the Met, under which SO14 falls - the section charged with protecting diplomats and foreign heads of state.

snip - Admin2

Tim

Thaksin enjoys no special priviledges in the UK.

He arrived from New York and cleared through UK customs using the diplomatic procedure - as would any other foreign head of state. Such does not allow him to stay in the UK with indefinite leave.

He will be treated as any other diplomate will be treated. That status will expire if a new Thai PM is put in place (elected or not) and the FO choices to recognise the new PM. He will then be subject the same visa rules & regs as any other Thai citizen staying in Thailand.

Should he wish to stay in the UK indefinitely he will have to apply for indefinate leave to stay, and the only real grounds he has for that currently would be "extra-ordinary" e.g. fear of persecution here in Thailand. Very difficult in his case, because if legal process commenses against him the FO does not see Thailand as one of those places where you get your head chopped off unfairly i.e. he will have to fight it out in the UK court should he wish to stay and the FO/Immigration do not like the UK to be used as a shelter for anyone seeking to avoid due legal process. Ask Gen, Pinochet - and was an FO friend which the UK owed far more favours to (re: his help in the Falklands war) than Thaksin!

If Thaksin has to leave the UK, and is not destined for Thailand what will he do - run for another European country and again apply for assylum(?).

Nope, if the Thai courts want him back and its a genuine case aginst him, then back he will be sent.

On balance though he appears to have things in his favour at the moment. He was a democraticaly elected PM who was overthrown in an illegal coup. The odd thing was, that as much as Western leaders commented that "democracy" needed to be re-instituted to Thailand asap", not one has said Thaksin should be put back as PM.

Lets hope this does not turn out to be a case of better the devil you know than the devil you don't, because quite frankly as questionable as many of Thaksins decisions were, I cant help but wonder just how much progress towards democracy has Thailand actually made since the last time the military flexed its political muscle (1991 - i.e. the fact that it still can do this).

To the average visitor/long term stayer - I dont think its going to make a dot bit of differance to us (and its all way above the visa policy changes taking place).

Tim

Well said - you have a point there - I cant think of many countries (any - besides Thailand) who hand out a) such a variety of visas and such long term stay visas.

None of the other Asian countries do - and and no Thai can get a visa to stay in any EC country for that long (except students).

Tim

A lot of fuss for no reason.

Everyone can stay permanently.

Good to know.

Another valid point - I think there have been cases/examples where the Thai consulates/embassies have themselves confused the issue by issuing visas & stamps much on the whim of the embassy staff member depending on his or her mood or what they think is appropriate.

The forum carries a few postings in which applicants having been denied one or other type of visa or been told one or other thing at one embassy, have then gone onto another embassy only to be given a visa or told something very different to what they understood to be the case from the first embassy.

But this all said, if you are determined to stay here for the long run, getting a work permitt is actually not hard to do off your own back with min capital investment - so long (if I am understanding what I have been told in PM's from various persons) you can stuppm up the funds for setting up a company (of which, like visas again, there are half a dozen different legal types - some incurring significant invetsment to formalise, and others requiring something in the region of a few hundred $'s).

Stick out a work permitt for long enough - now around 3 or 4 years (used to be longer) and - its no garuntee, but along with been able to satisfy a number of other requirements (Thai language skills, no criminal record, communicable diesese and a few other non-finance related points) you are well on your way to getting PR (permanent residency). I got mine donkys years ago (early 90's) and it was then a circus act the amount of hoops one had to jump through (to include bizarrely enough photographs of the layout of the inside of my house and the clothing in the cupboard - and photos of the bathroom!!), but Camerata (check spelling), who got his PR more recently describes it as a procedure that is a) now a lot quicker and a lot smoother - and there are even more changes on the way apparenly - to make the procedure even more striaghtforward and quicker (it took me from start to finish 19 months!).

However - if you are going to pursue PR on the basis of having held a work permitt for what ever the period of time is - make absolutely sure your financial obligations to the Thai tax man are 100% up to date and in order. I think I had 2 months missing (and there were some other minor tax points that were missing - I couldn't show a end of year return for one year) - the complication that added was something I won't forget. How valiud it still is I dont know.

PS - Permanent residancy is as far as I know and can remember a quota based procedure - there are set numbers for the amounts of foreign nationals from different countries that can apply each year, and even if you satify all the requirements, if you are not within the quota limit you will not be successful. Does that mean you are defffered to the next year or not - I don't know, I have sneeky feeling not, meaning you have to reapply, but could be wrong. Does anyother PR know what the current situation is as far as quota/reapplication goes.

Tim

The first time I applied for a Brasil visa I told then I'd be there 60 days, and they said "don't you work? how can you arrange a 60 day vacation?" I managed to talk my way through it (I had my own biz, xmas was coming and no biz that time of year, etc). So something like a one-year visa would raise an eyebrow anywhere, and require jumping through all sorts of hoops.

I'm glad to hear that getting the consulate-issued tourist visa is a plausible workaround.

BTW, I ws at the Penang consulate two weeks ago, before this visa stuff was announced, and even then they said only single-entry tourist visas.

FWIW a friend of mine who lives in Phuket did a run to Penang in February and was told single-entry tourist visa then. Apparently it then changed to double-entry and then back to single! It would appear that Penang has often applied stricter restrictions than other places long before the latest application of the rules. I guess we'll never know exactly why but, as has been stated here before, each Consulate is at liberty to do just that.

Just heard on Sky News that Thaksin is due to stay in the UK - so what visa will he have? Also, he is to stay at his property that apparently he has purchased in the UK

Howcome it is ok for him to stay in the UK when making if difficult for Farangs in LOS and why is he allowed to own land and property when Farangs in LOS cannot

Maybe he will become an asylum seeker and claim benefit

He is in the UK on a diplomatic pass - similar to a visa (my brother works in the FO section that deals with him and others like him (ousted dictators, presidents and PM's) that turn up bag in hand at Heathrow). But it does not entitle him to stay for ever - and he will not stay in the UK forever.

If there is any credible legal process aginst him (and Thailand is not seen as one of the countries that chops heads off - innocent or guilty) then he will be sent back to Thailand.

Ask Gen. Pinochet - and if ever the FO owed any foreign leader "favours", Pinochet was right at the top of the UK FO favours list (re: his help iduring the Falklands war).

It helped him nought - he was sent back to Santiago - and be sure, Thaksin is no-where as favoured in London as Pinochet was.

By the way - the rules & regs applying to foreign heads of state (and their visa terms in the UK) are published on the internet in all detail under one of the Immirgation or FO or Custom & Excise websites.

Well said - you have a point there - I cant think of many countries (any - besides Thailand) who hand out a) such a variety of visas and such long term stay visas.

None of the other Asian countries do - and and no Thai can get a visa to stay in any EC country for that long (except students).

Tim

A lot of fuss for no reason.

Everyone can stay permanently.

Good to know.

The first time I applied for a Brasil visa I told then I'd be there 60 days, and they said "don't you work? how can you arrange a 60 day vacation?" I managed to talk my way through it (I had my own biz, xmas was coming and no biz that time of year, etc). So something like a one-year visa would raise an eyebrow anywhere, and require jumping through all sorts of hoops.

I'm glad to hear that getting the consulate-issued tourist visa is a plausible workaround.

BTW, I ws at the Penang consulate two weeks ago, before this visa stuff was announced, and even then they said only single-entry tourist visas.

I was just looking at some of the stats for pepper from here :-

http://www.oae.go.th/statistic/yearbook/2003/indexe.html

It's under others

It shows the 2003 value at 680 kg/rai with a farm price of 79 bhat, that works out at a whopping 53,730 bhat/rai. Which is a pretty amazing fig, anyone got any ideas on the costs to grow ?

RC

Yup - big price, but that reflects a) the volume - do you know just how much dried seed goes into 1ton of the stuff - its about 2cubic metres!! and , production costs are high - its a labour intensive crop which is "fussy" (i.e. on a commercial scale it requires a lot of care and monitering of conditions).

But hack it and it'll reward you.

Tim

Okay sorry - I got it wrong. I'll keep me mouth shout now and concentrate on farming subjects.

If you're ever down and out - well, so long as you can drive a New Holland 8970 tractor with a front mounted forage harvester, or operate a Alfa Laval semi auto milking machine, there's a job up here in Loei for you (accomodation and rice ration included!!)

Tim

Again - more usefull info - I'm useless on the net so have a study at home full of books and articles from various Uni's - in a way good because its all specific for Thailand - even if its all in Thai. I went looking for mills yesterday and came across a company in the UK called ALVIN BLANCHE - some nice stuff, but huge price, which in Baht terms means it aint worth it.

That tinytec mill from india looks just the thing. The Ducth one at 2kg an hour - me thinks not, you'll have no time to use the oil!!

Tim

Maizefarmer; hmm...you still don't seem to get it... there is no way to GET OR RENEW the visa whether non-em b/o or whatever as the rules stand today. EVEN if one gets it from a (very) friendly consulate based on blablabla(visiting friends or whatever-NOT an official purpose btw) and no real docs, there is no chance of RENEWING it it Thailand. (under 50/single/no work).

Sting01; I want some of what you are smoking...if it's legal!

Cheers!

Obviously I'm mising something. In your case, yes I can see you are struggling to get the visa you want or to get your current visa renewed. What I am getting at is that, that should still not prevent you from getting into Thailand on some or other visa. Somewhere on the visa threads SUNBELT illustrates how, on one of the Non-Imm type visa (O or B - I can;t remember which one) you can effectively stay here for a year plus - all be it you will have to go out to get it re-entered or restamped at some point. The key to it though is starting off on the right type of Non-Imm Visa (which is not depoendant on 3mill, wife or 50 years of age) - and if you don't (which is where I think I might be missing the relivance of what you have conveyed in earlier postings), then the whole procedure falls apart, and you land up back in square one without any visa that can be used/renewed.

Is that where I have come unstuck with what you have said earlier - sorry I havent had to worry about a visa now since the 1990's so I am well rusty on the subject, and there have been many changes since then - and as you well know, another bunch just about to make things even more troublesome.

Tim.