Fat is a type of crazy

I think if you look at subsets of Trump supporters, and get down to those who attend the rallies, I am guessing the percentage of those that believe in conspiracy theories such as QANON, skyrockets.

That is why it is so irresponsible for Trump to bring the most easily influenced together and risk their lives in this way.

I am not saying all attendees are dumb*sses - just that a higher percentage than the general population are vulnerable to powerful, dominating, almost cult like influences of a Trump type person.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Worth a read.  Quite good.  It's a big problem that needs to be addressed.  Along with the senate.  Wyoming has 600,000 people, California has 40 million.  And each has 2 senators?  Not fair.

 

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/bigideas/its-time-to-abolish-the-electoral-college/

and what's the deal with two Dakota's 

I think we all get both sides of the argument and there is potentially some valid points on each. But if you were the actual decision maker you have to look at the facts and decide.

I can't see any reason, or conspiracy theory, as to why my Government in Australia, New Zealand or the French govt etc would lock down except that they've done the maths and worked out that the best overall outcome to save lives is to wear masks, social distance and to have some form of lockdown in major breakouts.

It's easy to be cynical of governments, but I am not an expert on this topic, and sometimes you have to accept that, and let others who are, decide. If someone can show me why a government would find a lockdown desirable, without resorting to unproven conspiracy theories, please let me know. 

A lockdown in extreme circumstances  is harsh but it is effective.

If simply separating the vulnerable would work they would do that. 

To just say that I want to be free to live my life, lets call it a Trump approach,  sounds nice but evidence suggests it leads to bad outcomes. Not sure if being free means that you are happy to wear masks and social distance.

Look at the Unites States today. Is this the outcome that is satisfactory to you. There are less deaths now, due to doctors learning how to deal with it, but still 1000 per day and rising. The above average deaths for 2020 are higher than the toll suggesting the figures are underreported. Then there are many with lingering side effects.

The vaccine is objectively not far away. Chill. Keep people safe and if cases get way out of hand lockdown for a while.

He became a bit of a punchline in the last 20 years as being the worst of the middle of the road type pop rock in the 80's e.g. South Park episode. He wasn't my cup of tea but In the Air Tonight was pretty good.

7 hours ago, PatrickC said:

 

I am selfish for wanting to protect cancer patients who are being denied care because of covid obsession?

 

Ok then, if you say so.

 

We are ruining so many lives with this covid obsession. So many unemployed. So much domestic violence. So many undiagnosed cancers. So many vulnerable people being locked at home.

 

But hey, let's forget about them, because you want to save your grannie, and her life is more important than anyone else. 

 

Pro lockdown folks only care about themselves and are the ones who are really selfish.

 

Go and speak to people who have been made unemployed by lockdowns, to women who have been beaten by abusive husbands, by people with mental health problems who are suffering, or to people who have had out of control cancers spread while in lockdown. Go and speak to them and tell them your grannie is more important than them.

Not sure about other places, but in Melbourne there were many messages about getting checks for any signs of other illnesses. The lockdown did not stop you getting health checks and there was wide access to telehealth services.

There was also an awareness of possible domestic violence related issues and new services were put in place to deal with it.

I just think you are underestimating the amount of deaths, and the pressure on the hospitals, if your approach was taken. I think generalisations about pro lock down people too don't help.

That is not to say that there will not be long term negative affects of the lockdown for youth, the unemployed, maybe other health issues as you say. 

It is nice now in Melbourne to be free to live my life to some degree and the whole of Australia and New Zealand have few cases. The future looks bright as compared to other places such as the United States and parts of Europe.

It could be strongly argued that the Melbourne lockdown when a bit too long. 

It may be that if people just took social distancing and masks seriously a full lockdown may have not been required. But, people being people, many don't follow the rules and this leads to harsh lockdowns.

Neither path is perfect but on balance I think sometimes lockdowns are an appropriate tool.

16 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

They know this how...guesswork?

Don't tell me someone who loves my favourite TV show as a kid is a Trump fan. The pain ..the pain.

In Australia always fast.. maybe 15 minutes if you go at the peak.

One reason is that the US states run by GOP Governers', and some state courts, are using a range of tricks to potentially limit votes e.g. limits on mail in voting times, photo ID laws, shut down polling places etc.  

The  Texas Supreme court just upheld a decision to limit ballot drop off locations to one per  county even though a county can be 1000's of square miles. I think the theory is that certain people, such as African Americans, are considered less likely to vote if it's difficult. 

It's making big news in Texas and may help inspire the people to vote and possibly turn Texas Democrat though that is not likely. 

It is hard to believe when you see people waiting in line all day to vote. Outrageous. 

People say this is a big victory for Trump. You could argue otherwise as :

Trump has no personal stake except to win the election. You think he really believes in the ideas of a fundamentalist right wing Christian who believes the opposite of Trump. He probably believes in nothing except himself; and

Trump may win a few votes amongst conservatives  but he  may have energised a part of the populace who, though they may think she is nice, sincere and intelligent in a certain way, don't want to live by 19th or 10th century rules and standards and ideas  in the 21st century.

30 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I gave up thinking any of them would be different after Obama let everyone down.

When he had the senate for the first two years I think he was focused on the economic recovery. He did that well. Then he lost the senate and was thwarted by  Mitch McConnell and friends. So he did underperform a bit. Still did Obamacare which was a big deal. 

It's a pity sometimes the president doesn't just have free rein to have their policies for four years and if they muck it up chuck 'em out.  

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Candidates are chosen by the wealthy elite .......... not by the electorate.

Elections are a sham competition between two elitist sock puppets (same hands running them), in an attempt to placate the proletariat.

For all the fault's of Trump  it's hard to say he was at first  brought in by the establishment. The Republicans fought hard to get rid of him in the primaries and it was his rampant supporters that got him in.

Same with Biden. He was on the outer and it was really some black democrats that got him back on track in the southern states.

But once in power, the establishment got behind Trump, and he has filled up the swamp to breaking point. 

Hope Biden will be different. His tax and other policies indicate he is. 

Breaking news: Shops pubs etc are  opening up in Melbourne on Wednesday. Further relaxations on the 8th of November. No new cases. Feels good. Time to open up.

41 minutes ago, riclag said:

That moron biden just loss his PA  win by  flip flopping on oil imop

I concur.. not with Biden being a moron but that that really stood out at the rally and he explained it poorly. Not smart for attracting the working class white men.  Something for Trump to get his teeth into. They say Pennsylvania is two big cities, Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and the rest is like Alabama.

I give Trump some kudos for his energy but he is mainly preaching to the converted and most people have seen through his nonsense.

1 hour ago, PatrickC said:

 

NZ is highly subjective and depends how you measure success. 

 

I heard today that Andrews is extending lockdown. Lucky you. Like a dog chasing its tail, Victoria's lockdown might never end.

 

I guess you are also in a white collar job and are working from home, so you can support the lockdown easily.

 

It is usually middle class work from home types who support lockdowns, since they're not losing their jobs. Just let the working classes suffer.

I agreed with the lockdown but I agree they are now taking it too far. Having 6 cases in the northern suburbs and shutting down the whole of Melbourne's 5 million population is now over the top.  

I do have a government job working from home so it's fine for me.

My thai ex has a business and has not been able to work for weeks.

750 cases a day means a lockdown is smart but for 6 it's getting ridiculous. The state of New South Wales is open with similar cases. 

Before we all get too excited though he is just talking about delaying it for a couple of days until a large amount of test results come back. My guess is he'll announce in a few days that retail and other businesses open next Monday.