Morch

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

 

How about: If they would be two separate countries then there might be a chance of living in peace in the same area.

And if that would have happened decades ago, then the current situation would probably be better. 

 

How about acknowledging both sides (and related parties) contributed to things being what they are?

2 hours ago, riclag said:

I was attempting to show how millions of innocent jews , zionist and Israeli through out history have been murdered similarly to what Hamas has done on Oct 7 .

 

 

I do not agree that these things are similar. I do not see one as the continuation of the other. IMO, that's just muddying the water.

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

You won the price by starting history on that day. Maybe look back a few months. Or years. Or decades. Then maybe you understand that it's not that easy to blame just one side. 

These topic are mostly about ongoing events. Some posters feel that each and every topic requires a full rehashing of the history of the conflict - obviously with bias narratives on show and so on.  Context is not unimportant, but when it serves as a constant deflection, a way to normalize actions like 7/10, or justify them - it loses it's relevance.

This topic is about something rather specific. A whole lot of posters comment on anything but. Same on many other topics.

Some topics are specific, some more general in nature. Time and place. Some order needed for the possibility of discussion.

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you should have a look at some of those videos where Israeli soldiers do exactly that.

I am sure not all Israeli soldiers do that all the time. But at least some Israeli soldiers do this sometimes. 

And let's not forget: Hamas is a terror organization. The IDF is the official military of a democratic country. That makes it worse, a lot worse. 

Some soldiers obviously do. Does that allow for wide brush comments?

If it was a policy, or really widespread, or denied - maybe you'd have a point.

But it's not.

39 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Hamas data and information center is directly underneath the UN computer data center room......what part of that do you not get. All the electrical and data connections are taken directly from the UN room down to the Hamas room. The entrance to the tunnel has no bearing on this, whether it was the courtyard or where ever.

I'm pretty sure he does get it.

3 hours ago, Brickleberry said:

 

This is laughably moronic.

 

Firstly, if I were to even believe this nonsense, how are metro stations built? They use huge tunnel digger machinery. 

 

How does Hamas build tunnels? By hand, and with electric jackhammers. You ain't gonna hear anything that far deep underground. In fact, the IDF has noted how difficult it is to detect: https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-the-tunnels-in-gaza-are-dug-and-detected/

@Brickleberry

A poster who cannot grasp the difference between kilometers and kilometers squared is not one to go on about 'moronic', unless referencing his own posts. All the more so when he speaks of himself as 'we'. Odd, that.

The Metro station was already in place. These were extension works. Value of properties dropped, rent rates as well.

On one of the previous topics dealing with them tunnels there was a picture of an excavator vehicle, which indeed raised question as to how it got into the Gaza Strip.

You want to believe no one knew anything, that's up to you.

1 hour ago, WDSmart said:

And, if what you say is true, then the IDF are the ones that are killing those civilian "shields" - men, women, and children - to get at Hamas. What does that make them?

What you and so many other pro-Zionists here on this Topic can't seem to understand or appreciate - feel - is that the Israelis are trying to take complete control of what used to be the Palestinian's homeland, and the Palestinians are trying to get that land back, or at least hold on to what they have left. 

That's my bottom line on this AseanNow Topic and every Topic related to this awful war. 

How do you mean 'if what you say is true'? It's what Hamas says.

What you don't seem to get is that your 'opinion' about Israelis 'trying to take complete control of what used to be the Palestinians' homeland' is not an accurate description of reality. It's just your low-information 'opinion', which you treat as fact.

3 hours ago, WDSmart said:

I'm only responding to this since you asked me a direct question, and I'm afraid if I don't answer it, you'll keep asking it and reminding me I haven't answered for the next week or so.

So, in answer to your question above, my response is: "I really don't know. Hamas may have warned the civilians in Gaza, and the citizens in Gaza may have known all along that they have always been under threat of attack by Israel. But, even those who were aware of this did not, from what I can gather, have any other place they could go. In any event, those Palestinians killed, wounded, and displaced in Gaza by the IDF were, indeed, casualties of this war, whether they were unwilling civilians or willing Hamas fighters."  

Hamas did not warn the civilians in the Gaza Strip. Even Hamas leadership abroad was notified only a short time ahead. This was reported, discussed and so on. Once again, you're either not aware of basic facts, or try to doubt them (based on nothing whatsoever). As for the rest of your nonsense - all of them Hamas tunnels could have saved a lot of Gazan lives. The option was not on offer, though.

More waffle to cover your previous nonsense comment.

5 minutes ago, riclag said:

@Morch 

Thats a bingo ! Millions of dead victims of past inhumane , barbaric,heinous assaults on the Zionist , Jews and Israeli  salute you and others who are defenseless to speak !

Never Never Forget!

imop

I've no idea what you're on about. But that's not unusual with your posts.

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, agree.

But if someone writes (probably hundreds of) posts criticizing people who criticize Israel, but in not even one of those posts he acknowledges that there are a lot of valid reasons why people do that, then it seems he is very one sided and doesn't want to accept that not only one side is responsible for the fights and the killings.

 

Personally I see that there are people who make the situation worse on both sides. The big difference is that Israel has a lot more weapons and the support from the USA. Israel kills a lot more innocent people than Hamas. 

Maybe stop making up stuff about what I post? Or not post?

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Maybe you work for free for a PR agency. At least that is what your comments look like.  

Maybe you're a troll who tosses wild allegations at other posters, when you can't address their words.

1 hour ago, bannork said:

At least your second paragraph opens with an acknowledgement that the death toll is high and many innocents have died.

You're making progress.

Here is an alternative to the invasion, and by the way, if you don't win the hearts and minds there will never be peace. 

"An alternative to invading Gaza | Jewish Voice for Labour" https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/an-alternative-to-invading-gaza/

Really? 'At least' how? Have I ever denied the death toll being high? That innocents are being killed? Have I ever reveled in these deaths? Nope. Just another made up dig.

As for the fantasy tale you linked (obviously unable or unwilling to present your own views) - pffft. It's not an alternative. It's what happens, maybe, the day after.

10 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

What a joke. Imagine this:

 

I promise you peace after invading your land (1967) and building settlements.

 

We agree to a ceasefire.

 

You keep on building more and more settlements, expanding your territory in my lands and building roads and checkpoints to connect my land to your land.

 

We kick off and fight back.

 

We agree to another ceasefire.

 

You keep on building more and more settlements, still keep invading my lands and snatching my people from their beds at night.

 

We fight, then we agree to another ceasefire

 

You keep on building more and more .... do you see where I am going this?

 

Follow the law. Live up to the ceasefire agreements. You might then see some peace.

@Brickleberry

As usual with you, chopped off the part of my post you can't or won't handle. Very 'grown up', very 'honest' of you. Just the way you roll.

The rest is just your simplified nonsense. It's not even much to do with facts.

You're making stuff up all over the place, and going off topic while at it.

5 minutes ago, WDSmart said:

Well, I'm certainly glad Premier Netanyahu has never said anything like that about Israeli troops... 

"On Memorial Day, premier also says the sacrifices made by Israel's troops are necessary for peace."

 

Netanyahu: Sacrifices made by Israel's troops necessary for peace - Israel News - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

The Israeli Prime Minister referred to soldiers.

The Hamas leadership was talking about civilian deaths.

That difference.

Three more articles regarding this:

PM says IDF must operate in Rafah, but will let civilians evacuate first

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pm-says-idf-must-operate-in-rafah-but-will-let-civilians-evacuate-first/

Netanyahu said to believe Israel has 1 month to finish Rafah operation amid global ire

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-to-believe-israel-has-1-month-to-finish-rafah-operation-amid-global-ire/

These address the military necessities, the problem represented by the mass of civilians in place, the timeline constraints and international pressures. Another relatively minor point, is Sinwar being out of touch. I'm not saying it's true or not, nor guessing the reasons - but there is this: say Sinwar (or possibly others of the Hamas's Gaza leadership) are dead. What then? Who called the shots? Who deals for the hostages? Having no leadership or a fragmented one might result in severe difficulties.

And then there's this, which I found more interesting that the other two:

Key to toppling Hamas, Rafah now a far bigger challenge for Israel than it needed to be

https://www.timesofisrael.com/key-to-toppling-hamas-rafah-now-a-far-bigger-challenge-for-israel-than-it-needed-to-be/

It details how lack of planning by the IDF (influenced by political issues) led to gaps in information, lack of plans and caused the delayed response. Also discusses previous plans from years past, which had they been reworked/adopted could have led to a different outcome than the current one.

7 minutes ago, frank83628 said:

thank you for telling me how i am with regards to the US and west, i obviously dont know myself!

never seen such hostility towards a person before, the viciousness, spite all come from the left. trump called a few politicains names ..wow... stick n stones!

I'm making judgements based upon your posts. You might have different views in real life. Don't know, don't care.

Sure, Trump is a victim. Go for that angle if you think it works. And no, not 'a few'.

As for 'sticks and stones' - care to recall how Dear Leader reacts when someone criticizes him? Even without calling him names?

Hamas warns Israeli offensive into Rafah will cause ‘tens of thousands’ of casualties; AP says 31 killed there early Sat.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-warns-israeli-offensive-into-rafah-will-cause-tens-of-thousands-of-casualties/

New heights of cynicism there.

Like Hamas cares about Gazan lives.

Same Hamas who's leader referred to such casualties as 'necessary sacrifices'.

5 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

International law concerns - I am talking about international law concerns. I hope that's clear enough for you.

@Brickleberry

Very weak.

Go on talk about video games, the word video appears therein as well.

Just now, Brickleberry said:

 

Well now who's making things up? You.

 

Hamas literally said they would agree to a permanent ceasefire in 2018 - if Israel followed its duties under international law and withdrew from the occupied territories. Is this not peace?

 

Hamas have been engaging in ceasefire talks - Israel has not

Israel has rejected outright a two state solution.

Israel has been building settlements in Palestinian lands for decades.

Israel has occupied Palestinian territories for almost 6 decades.

 

Are you seriously trying to tell us that Israel wants peace?

@Brickleberry

More misleading nonsense from you.

A ceasefire is not a peace agreement. And on top of that, Arabic allows for many distinctions of what is actually meant. The terminology matters.

Nowhere did Hamas accept a two state solution. Or Israel's right to exist.  Or even officially recognize Israel.

You're pushing Hamas talking points.

As for the rest:

Israel did participate in talks regarding a ceasefire, hostage exchange and so on - that's on record, why  lie?

Israeli Prime Ministers negotiated with PA leaders regarding a two-state solution, why lie?

The occupation is a result of Palestinian rejecntionism, which you refuse to acknowledge.

The illegal settlements need to go. That's about the only coherent or correct point you made.

I did not suggest Israel wants peace. I pointed out Hamas is not interested in one.

Takes two to tango.

And you are not 'us'.

5 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

This.

 

Until Israel wants peace, agrees to a two state solution, and leaves the occupied territories, it is pointless to try and blame it all on Hamas. This started way before Hamas was even created. Israel must follow international law. Until it does so, it has no moral high ground. It is a law breaking state and should be treated as such.

@Brickleberry

Israel Bad, Gotcha. Not on topic. Check.

Israel going out of the West Bank. Under current conditions. Any chances Hamas not leveraging this? No 7/10 like attacks on the horizon? I get it you don't want to blame Hamas for anything. You also deny a whole lot of what they did. For you, the Palestinian side doesn't need to show any responsibility for anything. Almost like you believed there's only one side involved here.

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Sorry that I write something important in this thread that you don't like to see.

Maybe join a pro-Israel group somewhere on fb where only pro-Israel comments are allowed. You will feel so much better over there in a bubble. 

Maybe stop hijacking topics.

9 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It's the root cause and therefore the center topic. 

You people can't address topics on hand.

For you lot, every topic is reason to start and rehash the whole conflict.

And that, from a one-sided point of view.

13 minutes ago, Brickleberry said:

 

Matthew 7:3-5

 

If Israel wants peace, it needs to follow international law. Sadly, Israel does not want peace. It wants control of all of the land, from the river to the sea.

@Brickleberry

Hamas is not interested in peace.

12 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Israel occupies and suppresses people since decades. Now why is it that those people rise up again the suppressor? 

What would you do when someone would take your home and land away from you and then tell you to go away?

I dunno....

Would you go out and butcher civilians, many of the pro-peace types? Rape their women? Kidnap their children and elderly?

Or better yet, start this while knowing the response to come, and see you own people killed left and right....

Way to go.