jerrymahoney

As has been noted the USofA, other countries, and Thailand run their tax ops on the self-reporting "Honor System". This has been my experience with expat Americans in Thailand and the honor system: For 10+ years I went to get an affidavit of income for Thailand retirement extension either at the US Embassy -- Bangkok or on a Counselor outreach. People Kingdom-wide would say: I know lots of Americans on retirement extension and NOT ONE of them actually has the 65K monthly income. The common word was: So what was going to happen? The US Embassy could do nothing because all that was really being sworn to is that This is Jerry Mahoney and this is what he says under penalty of perjury. Nothing about whether the Embassy thinks the statement was in fact true. So what if I say (to myself) All my income is in the not assessable / exempt category because it was an inheritance from my Aunt Dolores. Barring an audit, how would RD ever know that you never had an Aunt Dolores dead or living. Knowingly making a materially false statement to a US Federal officer in his/her official capacity -- as was routinely done for years often physically right in the US Embassy -- can be a felony charge. And people just laughed it off. So as per the Thai tax system and the expat community I would say: If people think that there is no downside and that they get away with it, at least for now, they will.

As I was directly quoting Mr. Gant, I will presume that he will not take it personal -- although maybe he will.

While I will agree that Thai Rev does not seem to use the term "non-assessable" it's not like it isn't ever used elsewhere: Amounts you don't include You may receive money that you don't need to include as assessable income in your tax return. You may still need to report these amounts so we can work out your tax losses or eligibility for tax offsets or benefits. Amounts you don’t include as assessable income fall into 3 categories: exempt income non-assessable, non-exempt income other non-taxable amounts. https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals-and-families/income-deductions-offsets-and-records/income-you-must-declare/amounts-you-do-not-include-as-income

Self-assessment and self-reporting is how it works in the USofA. No sane person will want to play games with the I-R-S (Internal Revenue Service). No one, as might happen in Thailand with the Thai RevDept., ever asks themselves as to the IRS: How will they ever find out if ...

So how about this from the esteemed Mr. Gant: 3. Thai RD is NOT interested in non assessable income (again, income exempted by treaty, like gov't pensions for most OECD countries -- or, again, any income not remitted). Thus, if you have enough assessable income requiring you to file a Thai tax return, you would NOT include line items of non assessable income. And, for sure, if you didn't have enough assessable income to require you to file, you certainly wouldn't file a tax return containing only line items on non assessable income (or worse, line items on non income cash flow into Thailand, like savings, just to show how you're being forthcoming in reporting all your money transfers). https://aseannow.com/topic/1306896-thai-government-to-tax-all-income-from-abroad-for-tax-residents-starting-2024/?do=findComment&comment=18599827

If you do a search for 'non-assessable' you will find plenty have also used that term Including this from Mr. Gant: 3. Thai RD is NOT interested in non assessable income (again, income exempted by treaty, like gov't pensions for most OECD countries -- (tricky he leaves out the hyphen)

'Avoiding' tax is fine i.e. by deductions. 'Evading' tax is criminal.

As to the 'bendability' of Thailand Immigration vs. Thailand Revenue Department, note the below: The one picture is the Khon Kaen Immigration office located on the 2nd floor of the area bus terminal and the other is the Khon Kaen area Revenue Department office:

I really only know him from this --

REDUX from me: In addition to examples of scenarios in which taxpayers should be exempt from Thai tax on foreign-sourced income, the FAQ also clarifies several points, including: • “Remittance of income into Thailand” is defined as any action in bringing the income sourced abroad into Thailand, including wiring money from a bank account, transferring money via e-banking, or physically carrying cash into Thailand. However, the FAQ did not confirm whether spending money in Thailand from an offshore bank account, credit card, or debit card could be considered a remittance of income into Thailand. (my italics) https://www.mazars.co.th/content/download/1175616/59807824/version//file/Technical-update-November-2023.pdf If ATM withdrawals and credit card purchases/advanced cash from foreign based banks are NOT to be considered as remittance, then, for many, it's all over anyway.

And this is for non-Assessable income: Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation: https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html (scroll down)

To me it simple: Until you not only define what is assessable and non-assessable income, but how in fact you establish what is and what is not, all the rest else like the income tax tables and available deductions is moot point.

I mostly agree. But early on this topic a lot of the comments were how NOT to have to comply with whatever the new Thai RD regulations will be, if it ever comes to that.

Maybe you should apply to be a mod. And I don't run out of fuel because my posts -- excepting quoting others -- would mostly be in the original Twitter 140 character mode.

Yes -- and if you say you don't have to pay anything because your money remitted was an inheritance from your Aunt Dolores, does that mean you ever had to HAVE an Aunt Dolores dead or alive?

So it is reasonably established what is RD Thailand assessable income for PIT. (personal income tax) And it is reasonably established what is RD Thailand non-assessable income for Thai RD PIT. The crux it seems to me is that, if ALL your annual foreign-sourced remittances are self-declared non-assessable income, does that mean you are under no obligation via the 60K current revenue reporting base, to report ones income in any manner to RD even though your Thai bank has full records of those deposits?

That as per above Immigration status is not irrelevant.

This topic generally covers persons who are tax residents of 180+ days per year in Thailand. There are only a limited number of ways that one can spend that much time in Thailand and dealing with Immigration is one of them. And other than via the IMM folks, how would RD folks ever even know who is a 180+ day tax resident in Thailand?

Well I remember the time roughly 5 years ago when Immigration said, as per the US Embassy: You mean you are not guaranteeing that anyone who claims on an affidavit that they have 65K in monthly income, actually HAS monthly income? And that generated a wholesale reform of the IMMM Police order on extensions of stay via retirement or marriage. Maybe something similar will happen with the Revenue folks on vaporware bank accounts for extensions via retirement. But more germane to what you want to discuss: If ALL my income is non-assessable, will I ever have to file aa PIT form

That's OK. Persons who on this and other topics suggest that their agents are pure as the driven snow, probably don't want to talk about it, either. BTW you responded to another post before I edited it to say: Even though I may have 5 million baht deposited annually into a Thai bank account, if i say that it is ALL non-assessable, that is what it is. No need to fill out any silly PIT forms. Trust me. You betcha.

Well OK but then there is this from RD link: 2.1 Assessable Income Income chargeable to the PIT is called “assessable income”. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. So what is assessable and what is non-assessable? From some of the posts on here, non-assessable is what I say is non-assessable. Even though I may have 5 million baht deposited annually into a Thai bank account, if i say that it is ALL non-assessable, that is what it is. No need to fill out any silly PIT forms. Trust me. You betcha.

Yes -- How will my agent take care of taxes as well?

You wrote a few days ago: "Should the RD want to have a few rounds on income vs capital, that might prove interesting. But, I really don't think they have, or can afford to have, the resources for such scrutiny." Well if you want to go a few rounds with someone on this stuff, it's going to be with someone other than me. You're beginning to sound like GWBush with his: "Bring 'em on"

Yes. And he's not talking about annuities.

Just to note that private pensions, IRAs, 401ks, et al. are addressed in the US-Thailand DTA Article 20 Paragraph 1. Annuities are separately addressed in Article 20 Paragraph 3.